Stem Cell Research

[Dr Mindbender]

Another one to be stickied?
This one is to the field of medicine what the debate on nuclear energy is to thermal physics.

Personally i support this because it could dramatically bring down waiting times for new organs, and potentially replace lost limbs.

The facts-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell

[RedAnarchist]

I'm certainly pro-stem cell research. I think it can benefit humanity greatly, as we can use it to create organs and body parts, repalcing old and broken ones.

[Dr Mindbender]

id be interested to see if theres any leftists actually against this but i somehow doubt it. If they admit to it they'll probably be restricted. Hopefully this can trigger some interesting debate nonetheless.

[spartan]

Yes i am completly for stem cell research as the potential benefits for all humanity is too great to just get rid of it or ignore it.

I think you would have to be a pretty stupid fucking Primitivist not to see any value or potential benefits to humanity in stem cell research.

[Faux Real]

On what basis does the opposition argue against? (besides religion)

I am in favour of it regardless.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 01:00 am
On what basis does the opposition argue against? (besides religion)

I am in favour of it regardless.
its more or less the same pretext as the anti abortion argument, in order to harvest a stem cell you have to fertilise an ovule with a sperm, effectively creating an embryo which is disposed of when you have got the bits you want. It is this disposing of the right wing find icky.

[spartan]

its more or less the same pretext as the anti abortion argument, in order to harvest a stem cell you have to fertilise an ovule with a sperm, effectively creating an embryo which is disposed of when you have got the bits you want. It is this disposing of the right wing find icky.
More fools them then as it is only a fucking embryo!

Bloody right wingers will defend anything that is so called "morally" defensible :lol:

[phasmid]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 23, 2007 12:54 am
id be interested to see if theres any leftists actually against this but i somehow doubt it. If they admit to it they'll probably be restricted. Hopefully this can trigger some interesting debate nonetheless.
Well so much for free fucking speech. Lets ban everyone whos ideas don't conform to the accepted view. Obviously no one will feel like voicing their opinion if they are against it for fear of being banned.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Alicia+October 23, 2007 01:57 am--> (Alicia @ October 23, 2007 01:57 am)
Ulster [email protected] 23, 2007 12:54 am
id be interested to see if theres any leftists actually against this but i somehow doubt it. If they admit to it they'll probably be restricted. Hopefully this can trigger some interesting debate nonetheless.
Well so much for free fucking speech. Lets ban everyone whos ideas don't conform to the accepted view. Obviously no one will feel like voicing their opinion if they are against it for fear of being banned. [/b]
Unless Ive overlooked something i can only see 3 reasons why someone would be against this research :

1-they are a right winger

2-they are a religious crank

3-they are insane (in which case i doubt they could form a coherent argument anyway)

for the first 2 they definitely belong in OI

[Vanguard1917]

id be interested to see if theres any leftists actually against this but i somehow doubt it.

For that reason, i reckon this debate would be more interesting if it's moved to OI.

[phasmid]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+October 23, 2007 02:00 am--> (Ulster Socialist @ October 23, 2007 02:00 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 01:57 am

Ulster [email protected] 23, 2007 12:54 am
id be interested to see if theres any leftists actually against this but i somehow doubt it. If they admit to it they'll probably be restricted. Hopefully this can trigger some interesting debate nonetheless.
Well so much for free fucking speech. Lets ban everyone whos ideas don't conform to the accepted view. Obviously no one will feel like voicing their opinion if they are against it for fear of being banned.
Unless Ive overlooked something i can only see 3 reasons why someone would be against this research :

1-they are a right winger

2-they are a religious crank

3-they are insane (in which case i doubt they could form a coherent argument anyway)

for the first 2 they definitely belong in OI [/b]
<_< eh

[which doctor]

I doubt any of us will be against it, which makes this kind of a dumb poll imo.

[Pawn Power]

yeah, move it to OI.

[Jazzratt]

Moved

I, obviously, am all for it.

[spartan]

This poll is best in OI as you might actually get people who are against it and who dont have to worry about a possible restriction as they already are restricted :lol:

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 12:28 pm
This poll is best in OI as you might actually get people who are against it and who dont have to worry about a possible restriction as they already are restricted :lol:
ive posted a suggestion in commie club to stop this quandry from happening again because in my opinion this thread still belongs in S&E.

I dare say it&#39;ll be unpopular though...

[spartan]

ive posted a suggestion in commie club to stop this quandry from happening again because in my opinion this thread still belongs in S&E.

I dare say it&#39;ll be unpopular though...
I agree that the subject in question is of course Scientific but you are unlikely to get "against" votes outside of OI due to members not willing to take the risk of being restricted.

So in a way the Mods were using common sense in moving this to OI because as i said before this topic is probably better off in OI where you are more likely to get a more equal poll by members who are not scared of voting against stem cell research due to restriction as they are already restricted in most cases :lol:

Just to reiterate i am completly for stem cell research.

[pusher robot]

Personally I wish that more of the science threads were in OI, just because I like talking about science and ethics and such. How I wish I could post in the nuclear power thread&#33;

Anyways...the question is not phrased well.

It IS true that certain religiously-minded folks have ethical objections to harvesting embryos for stem cell. It IS NOT true that embryos are the only source for stem cells; in fact, pretty much all of the interesting advances in stem cell research have been made with adult stem cells, which pretty much nobody objects to. So even those who are opposed are not opposed to "stem cell research," they are opposed specifically to "embryonic stem cell research."

Now, I think that even embryonic stem cell research is fine, as they generally use embryos that were frozen for fertility purposes and scheduled to be destroyed anyways. If they&#39;re going to be destroyed, why not destroy them in a way that advances science? I can see the ethical argument that it creates a slippery slope towards human exploitation, but I just think it&#39;s a very weak argument in this case. The government does so much else that is far more ethically troublesome, I just can&#39;t lose any sleep at all over this concern.

[MarxSchmarx]

the interesting advances in stem cell research have been made with adult stem cells, which pretty much nobody objects to

I beg to differ. The really good stuff comes from mice and fruit fly stem cells, which pretty much nobody objects to.


Personally I wish that more of the science threads were in OI, just because I like talking about science and ethics and such. How I wish I could post in the nuclear power thread&#33;

Feel free to start one in OI. I for one am quite interested in hearing the cappie argument AGAINST nuclear power and for oil and coal.

[Lynx]

Originally posted by pusher [email protected] 23, 2007 10:34 am
Personally I wish that more of the science threads were in OI, just because I like talking about science and ethics and such. How I wish I could post in the nuclear power thread&#33;
Yes, by all means start a thread on the Nuclear power issue. I&#39;d like to hear everyone&#39;s views on this topic.

[Ismail]

Even in OI I suspect this will get little opposition. (Since most of the people who stay in OI have libertarian leanings/are libertarians)

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 11:24 am
Even in OI I suspect this will get little opposition. (Since most of the people who stay in OI have libertarian leanings/are libertarians)
only the religious nutcases oppose this one. The fact that stem cell research isnt already commonplace whenever the technology is readilly available just goes to show how much power these stubborn madmen have.
:(

[pusher robot]

The fact that stem cell research isnt already commonplace whenever the technology is readilly available just goes to show how much power these stubborn madmen have.

Isn&#39;t it? Pretty much every major medical research institution is working with stem cells.


Feel free to start one in OI. I for one am quite interested in hearing the cappie argument AGAINST nuclear power and for oil and coal.

Well you wouldn&#39;t get one out of me. I&#39;m a big supporter of nuclear energy. Seems to me the anti-nukes are mostly lefties, not capitalists.

[AAFCE]

Im all for it

[spartan]

I think you are more likely to find people on the left against nuclear power than Cappies which is of course stupid but there you go.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I have yet to see an objection against stem cell research that wasn&#39;t based on religion or vague appeals to "morality", which in this case is either religion cloaked in secular language or some nebulous concept of "human dignity".

Needless to say, I am all for stem cell research, including embryonic stem cells.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by pusher robot

Isn&#39;t it? Pretty much every major medical research institution is working with stem cells.
yes *ahem* i meant stem cell techniques, i once was horrified to watch on tv an english child suffering from leukaemia who regularly had to travel to Ukraine to recieve life saving treatment as this was the only country at the time not prohibiting the technique where they could find a doctor willing to perform it. Unfortunately the charity funding this child had the plug pulled on their finances (no doubt thanks to pig ignorant bible bashers) so the family could afford neither their airline fares or cost of treatment.

[spartan]

yes *ahem* i meant stem cell techniques, i once was horrified to watch on tv an english child suffering from leukaemia who regularly had to travel to Ukraine to recieve life saving treatment as this was the only country at the time not prohibiting the technique where they could find a doctor willing to perform it. Unfortunately the charity funding this child had the plug pulled on their finances (no doubt thanks to pig ignorant bible bashers) so the family could afford neither their airline fares or cost of treatment.
That is such a sad story :(

Did the poor child die?

Those bloody bible bashers are going to be facing a fucking firing squad come the revolution :angry:

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 10:31 pm

yes *ahem* i meant stem cell techniques, i once was horrified to watch on tv an english child suffering from leukaemia who regularly had to travel to Ukraine to recieve life saving treatment as this was the only country at the time not prohibiting the technique where they could find a doctor willing to perform it. Unfortunately the charity funding this child had the plug pulled on their finances (no doubt thanks to pig ignorant bible bashers) so the family could afford neither their airline fares or cost of treatment.
That is such a sad story :(

Did the poor child die?

Those bloody bible bashers are going to be facing a fucking firind squad come the revolution :angry:
i didnt hear any closure TBH. I think they recieved help from a sympathetic doctor in the USA but wether or not the child survived i dont know.

[Dr Mindbender]

wow. Could this be revleft&#39;s first ever non-partisan unanimous poll?

[Ismail]

I should of voted no, just to be an asshole. :D

[ontheliberalleft]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+October 23, 2007 02:00 am--> (Ulster Socialist @ October 23, 2007 02:00 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 01:57 am

Ulster [email protected] 23, 2007 12:54 am
id be interested to see if theres any leftists actually against this but i somehow doubt it. If they admit to it they&#39;ll probably be restricted. Hopefully this can trigger some interesting debate nonetheless.
Well so much for free fucking speech. Lets ban everyone whos ideas don&#39;t conform to the accepted view. Obviously no one will feel like voicing their opinion if they are against it for fear of being banned.
Unless Ive overlooked something i can only see 3 reasons why someone would be against this research :

1-they are a right winger

2-they are a religious crank

3-they are insane (in which case i doubt they could form a coherent argument anyway)

for the first 2 they definitely belong in OI [/b]
Or they could look upon abortion as morally reprehensible. What about the woman who was going to have an abortion but decided against it in the end? The result? A fully grown individual person with interests and ambitions. Lets not write off opposition to abortion as religious wranks.

[Marsella]

Or they could look upon abortion as morally reprehensible.

And where would such moral reprehension come from?

Probably from (1) Religious rhetoric or (2) Right wing ideals

And lastly this is a thread about Stem Cell research.

Now by your analysis of


What about the woman who was going to have an abortion but decided against it in the end? The result? A fully grown individual person with interests and ambitions.

would support the idea of Stem Cell research because it would help &#39;cure&#39; people of diseases which prevent them from being a &#39;fully grown person.&#39;

It would be for the &#39;greater good&#39; would it not?

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 10:12 am
Or they could look upon abortion as morally reprehensible. What about the woman who was going to have an abortion but decided against it in the end? The result? A fully grown individual person with interests and ambitions. Lets not write off opposition to abortion as religious wranks.
But the people who oppose abortion are 95% of the time religious nuts. It is a rare person who does not base their opposition to abortion on religious or political boundaries, and among those who don&#39;t you may still find it hard to find a reasoned argument against it. For instance, the oint you bring up is meaningless - everything from eggs and sperm to simple solutions may as well be defended in the same vein. To make a valid argument about why a fetus should be defended, you have to discuss what makes that fetus similar to a human being. From your argument, which is common, one could just as easily defend a sperm in the body - after all, it may one day be a person.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 27, 2007 05:50 pm
wow. Could this be revleft&#39;s first ever non-partisan unanimous poll?
46-0 at the moment :lol:



(of course, someone will read this and make it 46-1 :rolleyes: :lol: )

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+November 06, 2007 11:13 am--> (Red_Anarchist @ November 06, 2007 11:13 am)
Ulster [email protected] 27, 2007 05:50 pm
wow. Could this be revleft&#39;s first ever non-partisan unanimous poll?
46-0 at the moment :lol:



(of course, someone will read this and make it 46-1 :rolleyes: :lol: ) [/b]
51-0 and counting&#33; :)

[Comrade J]

We&#39;re up to 53 :lol:

Where&#39;s freakazoid when you need him, he probably opposes that, the religious nut?

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 13, 2007 01:26 am
We&#39;re up to 53 :lol:

Where&#39;s freakazoid when you need him, he probably opposes that, the religious nut?
55-0&#33; Have all the religious nutjobs been silenced? :lol: