Chavez's Venezuela

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

This is taken from "journeyman pictures" channel on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOQWQW3qJaw&feature=dir


December 2004
His enemies accuse him of turning Venezuela into a Communist dictatorship. But is Chavez's vision of a socialist economy the new future of Latin America?

In the slums of Caracas, Dr Isol Capote's surgery is open for business. It's all part of a deal which provides cheap oil for Castro in exchange for Cuban doctors. The deal has enraged America, which wants to overthrow Castro. But the barrios are delighted: It's the first time they've had access to free medical care. "Under the old government, the poor were repressed," explains one resident. "Now there's justice and people are more equal." Chavez's enemies accuse him of buying votes and fomenting class hatred. They're received US funding and are working to overthrow him. But Chavez himself remains unconcerned. "We can't accept that we're just the United States' backyard ... we have to be free."

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 04:36 pm
Chavez's enemies accuse him of buying votes and fomenting class hatred.
Class hatred......that's music to my ears.

Que viva Chavez, Fidel, y el Che carajo!!!!!!

[thescarface1989]

Venezuela Bolivariana: People and Struggle of the Fourth World War
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-211546740067217089

[Faceless]

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/venezuela...no_volveran.htm (http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/venezuela_dvd_no_volveran.htm)

Watch "No Volveran!", it was produced by Hands off Venezuela! and is a more recent documentary than Venezuela Bolivariana, most of the footage having been filmed in December last year during the presidential elections. Great film.

[Dem_Soc]

I think Chavez is doing good things for venezuela and democratic socialism. Still need to do more research on how his rule is affecting the country but from what iv'e seen and read so far it sound's like he is doing some good work towards building socialism in latin america.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"[T]he working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machinery, and wield it for its own purposes." - Marx

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 23, 2007 06:15 am
"[T]he working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machinery, and wield it for its own purposes." - Marx
That's true, I've got my doubts but we can hope that what is happening in Venezuela will be the exception to the rule.

[lilo32]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 08:24 pm
I think Chavez is doing good things for venezuela and democratic socialism. Still need to do more research on how his rule is affecting the country but from what iv'e seen and read so far it sound's like he is doing some good work towards building socialism in latin america.
i agree! but if the U.S hates him then the whole nation does. its the way it works.

[Davie zepeda]

:ph34r:

i agree with Chavez in everything he has done moer Latin American country need to follow in his footstep to help build a Latin American encomy instead of buying high prize
things from a united states and other countrys i agree with chavez and hope one day when i finally finish my degree i can help the central American country's to see the truth
if it means ballot or bullet.

[The Something]

"Venezuela's National Assembly has given initial approval to a bill granting the president the power to bypass congress and rule by decree for 18 months."- BBC

"The proposed amendments include eliminating presidential term limits, detaining citizens without charge during national emergencies, and restricting the public's access to information during an emergency"-MSNBC

This is both disturbing and ironic because he is seeking the ability to rule as he sees fit during a time of "emergency" now anyone that knows anything about absolute power......is it corrupts absolutly. An "emergency" could be seen as an opposition party existing to "threaten" and could legally then be crushed.

Bush has passed such laws and it is ironic that his administration is now criticising him for passing laws deemed to "curb democracy".

Also his new laws passed to get rid of all term limits also makes me uneasy. One indefinite ruler is never a good thing, ever.

I truly hope he knows what he is doing and is doing it for the people. One can only hope and wait

http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-10-23-voa74.cfm

[Herman]

Also his new laws passed to get rid of all term limits also makes me uneasy. One indefinite ruler is never a good thing, ever.

Many European countries have no term limits. Spain and Germany don't have them. It's nothing shocking or anti-democratic. Besides, he's not making himself lone ruler or anything, he still has to be elected by universal suffrage.

[SocialistMilitant]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 10:06 pm

Also his new laws passed to get rid of all term limits also makes me uneasy. One indefinite ruler is never a good thing, ever.

Many European countries have no term limits. Spain and Germany don't have them. It's nothing shocking or anti-democratic. Besides, he's not makign himself lone ruler or anything, he still has to be elected by universal suffrage.
Spot on. It's about giving the people what they want. If the people want Chavez re-electred again he'll be re-elected. That's democracy.

[Tatarin]

Many European countries have no term limits. Spain and Germany don't have them. It's nothing shocking or anti-democratic.

I completely agree.

If they really cared so much about a limit, then they should be pissed at the Swedish prime minister Tage Erlander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tage_Erlander).

Add also that Erlander's own party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialdemokratiska_arbetarpartiet) can be traced back to genuine socialism!

[The Something]

perhaps your guys are correct, it is just the media getting to me. The laws he is passing just look dangerously "patriot act"ish. I'm just afraid he will start getting into the mentality of "I know whats good for you" about his people.

I'm happy with the laws and and ways he is running his country so far though. Increasing taxes on alcohol and cigs. is genius. I just do not want democratic freedoms and the right to oppose the state to be abolished. We (america) are if anything closer to this than the venizualens are and it very disheartening. I just want to finally see socialism work and work well and this seems like the golden opportunity.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 23, 2007 06:15 am
"[T]he working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machinery, and wield it for its own purposes." - Marx
who says the state isn't being smashed. No revolution is the same, just because the Venezuelan Revolution has been more peaceful and more protracted than the Cuban doesn't mean it isn't a Revolution. It wasn't until the 30s in the USSR for example, that land was collectivized fully, and in Cuba, the state didn't start expropriations until 2 years after liberation despite much better material conditions.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 24, 2007 12:26 am
perhaps your guys are correct, it is just the media getting to me. The laws he is passing just look dangerously "patriot act"ish. I'm just afraid he will start getting into the mentality of "I know whats good for you" about his people.

I'm happy with the laws and and ways he is running his country so far though. Increasing taxes on alcohol and cigs. is genius. I just do not want democratic freedoms and the right to oppose the state to be abolished. We (america) are if anything closer to this than the venizualens are and it very disheartening. I just want to finally see socialism work and work well and this seems like the golden opportunity.
Democratic rights are only just emerging in Venezuela. Venezuelans now control their oil, they excercise power through the grassroots Bolivarian Councils throughout the country.

[ComradeR]

perhaps your guys are correct, it is just the media getting to me. The laws he is passing just look dangerously "patriot act"ish. I'm just afraid he will start getting into the mentality of "I know whats good for you" about his people.
But if you actually look at these laws you will see that the people are gaining more power such as increasing the number and power of the communal councils. The bourgeois media is making a big issue out of things like this term limit nonsense while ignoring the real progress that is being made towards real democracy. You have to remember that the bourgeoisie will always demonize any movement that clashes with it's interests.

[Herman]

perhaps your guys are correct, it is just the media getting to me. The laws he is passing just look dangerously "patriot act"ish. I'm just afraid he will start getting into the mentality of "I know whats good for you" about his people.

Don't worry. If you watch "No Volveran", you'll notice how many of the workers and interviewed people in fact criticize Chavez for not going far enough and letting some factories be half owned by the state and half owned by the cooperatives.

Another thing, yesterday there were supposedly protests coming from the students and the opposition, according to El Pais, "in their thousands" (which I seriously doubt). Don't point your finger to them and convince yourself that "look, the students, a supposedly really revolutionary group of people are saying no to the constitutional reform". Firstly, they didn't actually say 'no', but rather they wanted to petition that the referendum be delayed until next year, so that they would have 'time to debate it' (which is nonsense, because they've had more than enough time to do so and in fact, one of the articles is aimed at increasing student and university participation in politics, as well as another article will lower the voting age from 18 to 16).

[Connolly]

But if you actually look at these laws you will see that the people are gaining more power such as increasing the number and power of the communal councils.

It almost sounds as good as Libyan direct participatory democracy through local councils - or Jamahiriya (state of the masses). Sort of people power, but without power if you know what I mean ;) - more about giving the illusion of power over anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamahiriya

Perfect example of a dictatorship dressed up with some nice rhetoric about democracy -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZQ2yp8BWc8

[Tatarin]

Good Morning, Muammar! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Muammar_al-Gaddafi-30112006.jpg) :D

[blackstone]

Originally posted by LeftyHenryML+October 23, 2007 08:07 pm--> (LeftyHenryML @ October 23, 2007 08:07 pm)
Compañ[email protected] 23, 2007 06:15 am
"[T]he working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machinery, and wield it for its own purposes." - Marx
who says the state isn't being smashed. No revolution is the same, just because the Venezuelan Revolution has been more peaceful and more protracted than the Cuban doesn't mean it isn't a Revolution. It wasn't until the 30s in the USSR for example, that land was collectivized fully, and in Cuba, the state didn't start expropriations until 2 years after liberation despite much better material conditions. [/b]
Exactly! And Zimbabwe didn't start expropriations until 20 years after they won their independence!

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by The Something+October 23, 2007 05:26 pm--> (The Something @ October 23, 2007 05:26 pm) perhaps your guys are correct, it is just the media getting to me. The laws he is passing just look dangerously "patriot act"ish. I'm just afraid he will start getting into the mentality of "I know whats good for you" about his people.

I'm happy with the laws and and ways he is running his country so far though. Increasing taxes on alcohol and cigs. is genius. I just do not want democratic freedoms and the right to oppose the state to be abolished. We (america) are if anything closer to this than the venizualens are and it very disheartening. I just want to finally see socialism work and work well and this seems like the golden opportunity. [/b]
While I agree with you on the "Patriot Act" part, as I said before it's wise only to disseminate "democratic opposition" to Chavez's proposals amongst comrades amongst Venezuela's working-class folks only. Shouting aloud dissent in the midst of bourgeois media and listeners would only mean that you're acting as a "useful idiot" to their agenda.


RedHerman
Don't worry. If you watch "No Volveran", you'll notice how many of the workers and interviewed people in fact criticize Chavez for not going far enough and letting some factories be half owned by the state and half owned by the cooperatives.

It's called "reformism."

Anyhow, here are more problems with the PSUV getting its act together:

PSUV convention has been put off once again... for reasons that aren't clear! (http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=76505)

[Comrade Rage]

Increasing the tax on booze and cigs are the ONLY two things I disagree with Comrade Chavez on.

[Herman]

It's called "reformism."

Yes, you go on with your guns and your nice imaginary Russian revolution. They're not facing the same problems, so different solutions are at hand.


Anyhow, here are more problems with the PSUV getting its act together:

PSUV convention has been put off once again... for reasons that aren't clear!

So? Changed to 2 of november. Big deal. The PSUV is still going forward as the party of the masses with near 6 million militants!

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by SocialistMilitant+October 23, 2007 03:29 pm--> (SocialistMilitant @ October 23, 2007 03:29 pm)
[email protected] 23, 2007 10:06 pm

Also his new laws passed to get rid of all term limits also makes me uneasy. One indefinite ruler is never a good thing, ever.

Many European countries have no term limits. Spain and Germany don't have them. It's nothing shocking or anti-democratic. Besides, he's not making himself lone ruler or anything, he still has to be elected by universal suffrage.
Spot on. It's about giving the people what they want. If the people want Chavez re-electred again he'll be re-elected. That's democracy. [/b]
What's more important: endlessly delegating political responsibility for seven years (albeit with a recall option in between) or "every cook has to learn how to govern the state"?

[I finally figured that out one, because the usual "every cook should be able to be prime minister" quoted by Trotskyist sites could imply more entitlement than responsibility.]

[HammerSickle]

i want to collect opinion about Chavez wishing constitutional change permiting him to stay forever in power? is it justified, if yes then why and how?