Jazzratt
16th October 2007, 23:53
IMPORTANT- though you are not obliged to read the below FAQ it is recommended as any posts that have already been answered in this FAQ will simply result in them being trashed (unless of course they make reference to the answers given here), if you insist on ignoring this and continually making posts on issues already dealt with by this FAQ your behaviour could be considered trollish which may result in a suspension or ban.
1-''Communism wont work cause humans are greedy''
Revleft says- Humans are not greedy naturally, in fact it is arguable that there is no such thing as a "human nature" as far as traits like greed are concerned. It is the only the case that greed seems natural when people are brought up under the material conditions of a scarcity society. Historically, such a culture has been enforced by imperialist nations on more pacifistic ones by the rule of brute force. This continues to this day via the foreign policies of prominent capitalist economies such as the USA and the UK.
2-''If communism is so great, look what happened to places like the USSR, and China!''
Revleft says - The reasons behind this are many and complicated, none of which prove that communism per se doesn't work. The general consensus between most modern mainstream communists is that these countries are not, and in the case of countries like Cambodia and North Korea were never communist. A lot of the left argue that these were state capitalist states. State capitalism is entirely different to the society blueprinted by Marx, and later philosophers like Lenin and Trotsky. The difference between these two ideas are that under communism, each individual worker has equal say in the affairs in state activities. This did not happen under any of the systems held up as examples of "communism" , because in these the communist parties took away the workers democracy, in effect making the ruling party the new bourgeois . Stalin, for example, ejected the internationalists and trade unions and later began purging many of the original revolutionaries, including Trotsky.
3-''If the workers want communism so badly why don't they support it now?''
Revleft says- Many working class people already feel the current system is wrong,however the bourgeois establishment has used its power, both through the media and educational systems to indoctrinate us from an early age. They teach that communism is wrong, and that there is no alternative system to capitalism. They do this through the media mainly by blaming problems they have themselves caused on irrelevant economic factors, such as immigrants. Another tactic used is to deionise those workers that do struggle for change by pointing out inconveniences caused by 'wildcat' strikes. Not only this, but they teach us that is honourable to disregard fellow proletariat members in order to pursue class status and to join the ranks of the bourgeois class. The majority of people do not receive any ideas to the contrary because any challenge to the status quo is drowned out by the super-rich right wing dominated TV channels and tabloids.
4-''Humans are naturally pre-determined to follow and be led''
Revleft says- As with question 1, this is untrue. There remain human societies untouched by capitalism and the free market, (such as indigenous rainforest tribes) wherein they do not follow arbitrary western notions, for example leadership or currency.
5-''How will society function without money?''
Revleft says- Money is an abstraction based on entirely arbitrary concepts, it may be better to ask how it is we have survived with money! Most leftists have a proposition on this front, the three main ones are: labour time vouchers (favoured by Marxist-Leninist), energy accounting (favoured by technocrats) and a "gift economy" (favoured by anarchists).
6-''If everyone gets paid the same what motivation will there be to work harder?''
Revleft says- To paraphrase Karl Marx - if that argument had merit then bourgeois society should have gone to the dogs long ago! There are several schools under socialism which combat this argument, but the most common one is that those who 'free-ride' will be excluded and will not enjoy the spoils of societies labours.The technocratic argument, which is gaining favour in many leftist circles, is that the technology and automotive production acquired under capitalism will be utilised to liberate all people from the drudgery of manual labour, and allow every man and woman to pursue a role that is enjoyable, demanding and less alienating.
7-''Communism is an evil ideology- look how many people died under it's dictators!''
Revleft says- There are two arguments that are commonly raised against this, the first is that most of these atrocities occurred under state capitalism and therefore cannot be blamed on Marx or the Bolshevik philosophy. It is like saying Jesus should be blamed for the crusades! The second argument is that, as well as these crimes being committed by people who were not going to create the society that the left aims for but also that many of them are exaggerated or simply made up in order to slander communism.
8-''Wont you take away my right to religion?''
Revleft says-No. The general consensus of modern leftists is that religion should be a private matter, but it should not be banned outright. In fact your right to your opinion will be actively encouraged, as long as you do not force your theology onto other people. The aim of the revolutionary left is not to force anyone to abandon religious ideas, but a significant number argue that religion only exists thanks to the material conditions currently in place and it will fade away after the revolution.
9-''Wont you take away my right to private property?''
Revleft says- That depends what you class as private property. There is a confusion between private and personal property. Things like your home and your car will remain your in your possession because they do not exploit the labour of other people. On the other hand, If you happen to own a factory, office, school or some other instrument of capital then that would be seized during a communist revolution and would belong to the community as a whole.
10-''Capitalist countries are more advanced! Communism will be technologically backwards!''
Revleft says- They only became more advanced through brute force and seizing the assets of other lands. This does nothing to make them morally or ideologically better than those who reject their ideas. Furthermore, the luxuries and technological benefits that you refer to are only enjoyed by an elite clique within the capitalist countries, while the majority are excluded and live in an exploited state, as with anywhere else. It is also argued that at times when the political reality changes (for example when feudalism fell to capitalism during the industrial revolution or even earlier when primitive communism ended during the agricultural revolution) there will be a great shift in technology.
11-"Revolutionary change has been rendered impossible or undesirable why don't you simply try to reform capitalism?"
Revleft says - Firstly it is by no means the case that revolutionary change has been rendered impossible, even though the government now controls much more advanced armed forces these are still made up of people - mainly working class people who will have the revolution in their interests when the revolution comes. Secondly reforming capitalism is pointless, any advances made by workers in imperialist countries are usually made at the cost of those in the third world and even if they aren't they never address the fundamental problem of capitalism - the exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie.
12-"There is no working class in the first world, we are all middle class."
Revleft says - Although there are some leftists who would agree with this line of thinking most of us know that labels like "middle class" are capitalist constructions. In leftist theory class is defined by how one earns their money rather than how much of it they earn - the working class (proletariat) earn money by selling their ability to work - for example a spot welder sells her ability to weld whilst a teacher would sell his ability to teach, these are both examples of the working class. The "middle class" (although no such distinction exists in leftist class theory, there is instead the petit-bourgeoisie a class that is similar but different) earns its money neither by selling its labour power, nor by directly exploiting the working class - examples of this class could be a self employed person or the owner of a small bookshop. Finally the ruling class (bourgeois) makes its money by selling the products of the proletariat's labour for more than they payed for the labour, thus cheating the working class out of the full value of their labour - the amount they cheat their workers by is called "profit".
Suggested reading by question:
1.Existentialism is a humanism (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm) - A famous piece by Jean-Paul Sartre and one that deals well with the question of "human nature".
2. State Capitalism In Russia (http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1955/statecap/index.htm) Tony Cliff's controversial piece and the most well known reference to state capitalism.
State Capitalism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/deleon/pdf/1897/1897_aug29.pdf) A short editorial by Daniel DeLeon.
The Worker's State,Thermidor and Bonapartism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1935/02/ws-therm-bon.htm) Leon Trotsky's piece which introduces the idea of a "degenerated worker's state" criticism of the USSR.
3.The Communist Manifesto (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm) The one and only. Marx and Engels explaining communism for workers of the 19th century.
4. See question 1.
Rudolf Rocker Archive on the Marxist Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/rocker-rudolf/misc/anarchism-anarcho-syndicalism.htm) A good place to start with anarchism, an example of an ideology that does not require leaders.
What is Anarchist Communism (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html) Alexander Berkman's classic introduction to anarchist communism. (And on a personal note the very first piece of leftist literature I read.)
5.Technocracy.ca's introduction to Energy Accounting (http://www.technocracy.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=6&page=1)
World Socialist Movement's introduction to LTVs (http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/labour_vouchers.php)
Future Positive: Gift Economy (http://futurepositive.synearth.net/stories/storyReader$223) - more gift economy thaan you can shake a stick at.
6.Capital - Volume one (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/Marx_Capital_Vol_1.pdf) The seminal work of Mr. Marx, it's a thick book and a huge pdf but there is no better deconstruction of capitalism than this .
7. See question 2
Marxist History (http://www.marxists.org/history/index.htm) For a different look at history to the one you had rammed down your throat at school.
8. [None as yet]
9.What is Property? (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/proudhon/property/index.htm) Pierre-Joseph Proudhon tells it how it is. "Property is theft, possession freedom."
10. The NET (http://en.technocracynet.eu/) post-capitalism, technologically backwards? Try telling it to this lot. Many interesting essays and a discussion forum.
11. [None as yet]
12. See questions 3 and 6.
It is also recommended that you take the time to peruse our other forums (you may not be able to contribute but at least you'll be able to see the way we think.)
1-''Communism wont work cause humans are greedy''
Revleft says- Humans are not greedy naturally, in fact it is arguable that there is no such thing as a "human nature" as far as traits like greed are concerned. It is the only the case that greed seems natural when people are brought up under the material conditions of a scarcity society. Historically, such a culture has been enforced by imperialist nations on more pacifistic ones by the rule of brute force. This continues to this day via the foreign policies of prominent capitalist economies such as the USA and the UK.
2-''If communism is so great, look what happened to places like the USSR, and China!''
Revleft says - The reasons behind this are many and complicated, none of which prove that communism per se doesn't work. The general consensus between most modern mainstream communists is that these countries are not, and in the case of countries like Cambodia and North Korea were never communist. A lot of the left argue that these were state capitalist states. State capitalism is entirely different to the society blueprinted by Marx, and later philosophers like Lenin and Trotsky. The difference between these two ideas are that under communism, each individual worker has equal say in the affairs in state activities. This did not happen under any of the systems held up as examples of "communism" , because in these the communist parties took away the workers democracy, in effect making the ruling party the new bourgeois . Stalin, for example, ejected the internationalists and trade unions and later began purging many of the original revolutionaries, including Trotsky.
3-''If the workers want communism so badly why don't they support it now?''
Revleft says- Many working class people already feel the current system is wrong,however the bourgeois establishment has used its power, both through the media and educational systems to indoctrinate us from an early age. They teach that communism is wrong, and that there is no alternative system to capitalism. They do this through the media mainly by blaming problems they have themselves caused on irrelevant economic factors, such as immigrants. Another tactic used is to deionise those workers that do struggle for change by pointing out inconveniences caused by 'wildcat' strikes. Not only this, but they teach us that is honourable to disregard fellow proletariat members in order to pursue class status and to join the ranks of the bourgeois class. The majority of people do not receive any ideas to the contrary because any challenge to the status quo is drowned out by the super-rich right wing dominated TV channels and tabloids.
4-''Humans are naturally pre-determined to follow and be led''
Revleft says- As with question 1, this is untrue. There remain human societies untouched by capitalism and the free market, (such as indigenous rainforest tribes) wherein they do not follow arbitrary western notions, for example leadership or currency.
5-''How will society function without money?''
Revleft says- Money is an abstraction based on entirely arbitrary concepts, it may be better to ask how it is we have survived with money! Most leftists have a proposition on this front, the three main ones are: labour time vouchers (favoured by Marxist-Leninist), energy accounting (favoured by technocrats) and a "gift economy" (favoured by anarchists).
6-''If everyone gets paid the same what motivation will there be to work harder?''
Revleft says- To paraphrase Karl Marx - if that argument had merit then bourgeois society should have gone to the dogs long ago! There are several schools under socialism which combat this argument, but the most common one is that those who 'free-ride' will be excluded and will not enjoy the spoils of societies labours.The technocratic argument, which is gaining favour in many leftist circles, is that the technology and automotive production acquired under capitalism will be utilised to liberate all people from the drudgery of manual labour, and allow every man and woman to pursue a role that is enjoyable, demanding and less alienating.
7-''Communism is an evil ideology- look how many people died under it's dictators!''
Revleft says- There are two arguments that are commonly raised against this, the first is that most of these atrocities occurred under state capitalism and therefore cannot be blamed on Marx or the Bolshevik philosophy. It is like saying Jesus should be blamed for the crusades! The second argument is that, as well as these crimes being committed by people who were not going to create the society that the left aims for but also that many of them are exaggerated or simply made up in order to slander communism.
8-''Wont you take away my right to religion?''
Revleft says-No. The general consensus of modern leftists is that religion should be a private matter, but it should not be banned outright. In fact your right to your opinion will be actively encouraged, as long as you do not force your theology onto other people. The aim of the revolutionary left is not to force anyone to abandon religious ideas, but a significant number argue that religion only exists thanks to the material conditions currently in place and it will fade away after the revolution.
9-''Wont you take away my right to private property?''
Revleft says- That depends what you class as private property. There is a confusion between private and personal property. Things like your home and your car will remain your in your possession because they do not exploit the labour of other people. On the other hand, If you happen to own a factory, office, school or some other instrument of capital then that would be seized during a communist revolution and would belong to the community as a whole.
10-''Capitalist countries are more advanced! Communism will be technologically backwards!''
Revleft says- They only became more advanced through brute force and seizing the assets of other lands. This does nothing to make them morally or ideologically better than those who reject their ideas. Furthermore, the luxuries and technological benefits that you refer to are only enjoyed by an elite clique within the capitalist countries, while the majority are excluded and live in an exploited state, as with anywhere else. It is also argued that at times when the political reality changes (for example when feudalism fell to capitalism during the industrial revolution or even earlier when primitive communism ended during the agricultural revolution) there will be a great shift in technology.
11-"Revolutionary change has been rendered impossible or undesirable why don't you simply try to reform capitalism?"
Revleft says - Firstly it is by no means the case that revolutionary change has been rendered impossible, even though the government now controls much more advanced armed forces these are still made up of people - mainly working class people who will have the revolution in their interests when the revolution comes. Secondly reforming capitalism is pointless, any advances made by workers in imperialist countries are usually made at the cost of those in the third world and even if they aren't they never address the fundamental problem of capitalism - the exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie.
12-"There is no working class in the first world, we are all middle class."
Revleft says - Although there are some leftists who would agree with this line of thinking most of us know that labels like "middle class" are capitalist constructions. In leftist theory class is defined by how one earns their money rather than how much of it they earn - the working class (proletariat) earn money by selling their ability to work - for example a spot welder sells her ability to weld whilst a teacher would sell his ability to teach, these are both examples of the working class. The "middle class" (although no such distinction exists in leftist class theory, there is instead the petit-bourgeoisie a class that is similar but different) earns its money neither by selling its labour power, nor by directly exploiting the working class - examples of this class could be a self employed person or the owner of a small bookshop. Finally the ruling class (bourgeois) makes its money by selling the products of the proletariat's labour for more than they payed for the labour, thus cheating the working class out of the full value of their labour - the amount they cheat their workers by is called "profit".
Suggested reading by question:
1.Existentialism is a humanism (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm) - A famous piece by Jean-Paul Sartre and one that deals well with the question of "human nature".
2. State Capitalism In Russia (http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1955/statecap/index.htm) Tony Cliff's controversial piece and the most well known reference to state capitalism.
State Capitalism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/deleon/pdf/1897/1897_aug29.pdf) A short editorial by Daniel DeLeon.
The Worker's State,Thermidor and Bonapartism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1935/02/ws-therm-bon.htm) Leon Trotsky's piece which introduces the idea of a "degenerated worker's state" criticism of the USSR.
3.The Communist Manifesto (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm) The one and only. Marx and Engels explaining communism for workers of the 19th century.
4. See question 1.
Rudolf Rocker Archive on the Marxist Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/rocker-rudolf/misc/anarchism-anarcho-syndicalism.htm) A good place to start with anarchism, an example of an ideology that does not require leaders.
What is Anarchist Communism (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html) Alexander Berkman's classic introduction to anarchist communism. (And on a personal note the very first piece of leftist literature I read.)
5.Technocracy.ca's introduction to Energy Accounting (http://www.technocracy.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=6&page=1)
World Socialist Movement's introduction to LTVs (http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/labour_vouchers.php)
Future Positive: Gift Economy (http://futurepositive.synearth.net/stories/storyReader$223) - more gift economy thaan you can shake a stick at.
6.Capital - Volume one (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/Marx_Capital_Vol_1.pdf) The seminal work of Mr. Marx, it's a thick book and a huge pdf but there is no better deconstruction of capitalism than this .
7. See question 2
Marxist History (http://www.marxists.org/history/index.htm) For a different look at history to the one you had rammed down your throat at school.
8. [None as yet]
9.What is Property? (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/proudhon/property/index.htm) Pierre-Joseph Proudhon tells it how it is. "Property is theft, possession freedom."
10. The NET (http://en.technocracynet.eu/) post-capitalism, technologically backwards? Try telling it to this lot. Many interesting essays and a discussion forum.
11. [None as yet]
12. See questions 3 and 6.
It is also recommended that you take the time to peruse our other forums (you may not be able to contribute but at least you'll be able to see the way we think.)