Analyzing American Politics

[Sense-A]

Okay lets try to keep unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions from holding any relevancy here. Really I just want to play advocate for a minute and pose some questions.

Is it righteous to disallow nuclear power plants in countries of bad relation? What pact or international guidelines or establishments/international law does the world have regarding nuclear energy/plants and possession of nuclear material?

What was the American attack on Iraq really about? What is the history between these two nations? Where is oil originated from Iraq going right now? Are the Iraqi people getting proper compensation for their own oil?

Explain the sudden economic success of Dubai to me

What is the current standing of China as a nation? Is communism working in China? What policies are failing for China? What is China's current economic standing? How does China and Japan's current economic standing compare historically?

How should immigration into America be managed? Or should it not be managed at all?

How much should government be allowed to control any of these things?

How exactly is your local government inefficient? What are events of political corruption in your own town that go unheard far and wide to the rest of us?

Instead of wiping out the American government entirely in order to establish a more revolutionary left system, are there any minor changes to the existing system that can be initiated to, through some time and integration, better the American government?

Mention a quote that depicts what government is or what government should be! Any form you regard as best/most fair/righteous/freedom/whatever

Do you believe that isolation is better for a nation? Or is it better to break down the barriers between countries and try to do business/exchanges, group support, sharing of technology , freetrade, etc. ? Could this eventually lead to one world government?
Would one world government be good or extremely bad? What are the barriers that seperate people? ideological? political? can people co-exist with government or with each other worldwide?

What sort of person makes a better national leader? an economist? a lawyer? A businessman? a pothead? a military hero? Who? Can candidates or potential leaders be held to any criteria? what qualifications do we look for in a leader anyways? Do we need leaders at all? explain

What are REAL WORLD issues right now? ones that hold most significance. What should we collectively be concerned about?

Sorry for this thread being so aimless. I'm open to any political views on these topics, let the arguments/opinions begin.

[Mkultra]

it wont work to analyze American politicis cause its not really based on Logic

[Sense-A]

answers to my questions are logic to me because people must think on a global scale. The point at which I think it may become illogic is when you state that nationalism should be non existent. Is nationalism a good or bad thing? Should you not feel dignity amongst the ones who are your neighbors? How is it illogic to question the future progression of a land of people over 200 million population. Do you look to other lands to politic? Any form of government that has lasted and endured over 200 years must be based on some sort of logic. Whether it is good or bad logic that is questionable!

I think questions such as the ones I ask are ones Americans should be asking representatives all the time. Why are interviews and public hearings with representatives so "beat around the bush." avoiding giving a true answer.. Put representatives and public officials on the spot. If you disagree with a law, contact anyone in any position in society that has the power to change it. You see, where government fails is the lack of participation of the citizens of that government. How many people come to revleft.com or read the paper or study marxism or give a fuck about government anyways? It takes thinking on a more global scale. But in our own lives it seems we can only change or effect whats directly around us. Monitoring government over a span of 3000 miles plus overseas occupations and communicating and interacting with all the multitude of governments and types of governments around the world is a hefty, if not life consuming endeavor. But some people just want to be artisans or craftsmen or philosophers or nomads. Not everyone wants to participate in government. but surely there must be some order to society; I'm sure the majority of us can at least agree on that. So 1. we need government 2. not everybody is going to participate

I do believe that democracy is a good thing.

Also I was wondering if forms of economic systems are directly related or incorporated into the "body" of government? Can you have marxism with a capitalist economic system? or democracy without currency? can you mix and match economic features of different forms of government?

how many of you rev lefts think that you have a true full understanding of exactly how countries' economics and import/export exchange and rates etc etc work?

Listen I'm not imposing anything here I'm just asking what i consider important questions if you are going to convince anyone in the world that we need to change government or if you really think you are going to get people out of their comfort zones to consider better ways or better possibilities such as a better standard of living for the whole mass of people.

Here is another question. Right now, is there enough food in the world to feed everyone 3 hearty meals a day? As a world population that is, do we still produce a surplus of food to feed everyone? Can the increase of population be used to test the validity of this?

[Mkultra]

I think the fact that theres any hungry people in the world today just shows the moral corruption of the human race--the resources exist to give everyone what they want--the WILL for people to do it just isnt there tho because people are brainwashed into believing in erroneous concepts of scarcity from growing up playing such evil games like musical chairs

[Lynx]

Originally posted by Sense-[email protected] 11, 2007 09:43 pm
Okay lets try to keep unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions from holding any relevancy here. Really I just want to play advocate for a minute and pose some questions.

Is it righteous to disallow nuclear power plants in countries of bad relation? What pact or international guidelines or establishments/international law does the world have regarding nuclear energy/plants and possession of nuclear material?

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

If you find unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions feel free to edit the article!

All I can give you is my opinion of the situation...

[Killer Enigma]

I agree it is important to analyze American politics and on a different night I would post my responses to your questions. In the mean time, I found a blog while looking for articles on this business about Chavez that had some interesting points about the election (http://theredmantis.blogspot.com/2007/08/conservative-socialism-american.html) and the immigration (http://theredmantis.blogspot.com/2007/08/immigration-question.html) issue. I disagree on the election post but nevertheless, I do see the value in discussing American politics.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Lynx+October 12, 2007 11:57 pm--> (Lynx @ October 12, 2007 11:57 pm)
Sense-[email protected] 11, 2007 09:43 pm
Okay lets try to keep unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions from holding any relevancy here. Really I just want to play advocate for a minute and pose some questions.

Is it righteous to disallow nuclear power plants in countries of bad relation? What pact or international guidelines or establishments/international law does the world have regarding nuclear energy/plants and possession of nuclear material?

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

If you find unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions feel free to edit the article!

All I can give you is my opinion of the situation... [/b]
that link to wikipedia is totally invalide--the CIA edits wiki on a daily basis

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 13, 2007 12:06 am--> (Mkultra @ October 13, 2007 12:06 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 11:57 pm

Sense-[email protected] 11, 2007 09:43 pm
Okay lets try to keep unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions from holding any relevancy here. Really I just want to play advocate for a minute and pose some questions.

Is it righteous to disallow nuclear power plants in countries of bad relation? What pact or international guidelines or establishments/international law does the world have regarding nuclear energy/plants and possession of nuclear material?

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

If you find unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions feel free to edit the article!

All I can give you is my opinion of the situation...
that link to wikipedia is totally invalide--the CIA edits wiki on a daily basis [/b]
Not only have you made a hasty generalization but you have also made an appeal to spite, both of which are logical fallacies. (1) Even if the CIA edits wikipedia "on a daily basis" (source?), how does that discredit the information entirely? (2) You cannot offer substantive proof that the CIA edited that particular article. Am I to assume that every article on wikipedia has been tampered with by the CIA?

So many on this board are in desperate need of a basic logic class. Their arguments, by and large, are beyond absurd; they are utterly fallacious.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Killer Enigma+October 13, 2007 12:14 am--> (Killer Enigma @ October 13, 2007 12:14 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 12:06 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 11:57 pm

Sense-[email protected] 11, 2007 09:43 pm
Okay lets try to keep unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions from holding any relevancy here. Really I just want to play advocate for a minute and pose some questions.

Is it righteous to disallow nuclear power plants in countries of bad relation? What pact or international guidelines or establishments/international law does the world have regarding nuclear energy/plants and possession of nuclear material?

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

If you find unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions feel free to edit the article!

All I can give you is my opinion of the situation...
that link to wikipedia is totally invalide--the CIA edits wiki on a daily basis
Not only have you made a hasty generalization but you have also made an appeal to spite, both of which are logical fallacies. (1) Even if the CIA edits wikipedia "on a daily basis" (source?), how does that discredit the information entirely? (2) You cannot offer substantive proof that the CIA edited that particular article. Am I to assume that every article on wikipedia has been tampered with by the CIA?

So many on this board are in desperate need of a basic logic class. Their arguments, by and large, are beyond absurd; they are utterly fallacious. [/b]
becuase the article I read that detailed the CIA tampering of wikipedia was specifically related to Iran

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 13, 2007 12:26 am--> (Mkultra @ October 13, 2007 12:26 am)
Originally posted by Killer [email protected] 13, 2007 12:14 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 12:06 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 11:57 pm

Sense-[email protected] 11, 2007 09:43 pm
Okay lets try to keep unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions from holding any relevancy here. Really I just want to play advocate for a minute and pose some questions.

Is it righteous to disallow nuclear power plants in countries of bad relation? What pact or international guidelines or establishments/international law does the world have regarding nuclear energy/plants and possession of nuclear material?

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

If you find unproven facts, conspiracies, and mere assumptions feel free to edit the article!

All I can give you is my opinion of the situation...
that link to wikipedia is totally invalide--the CIA edits wiki on a daily basis
Not only have you made a hasty generalization but you have also made an appeal to spite, both of which are logical fallacies. (1) Even if the CIA edits wikipedia "on a daily basis" (source?), how does that discredit the information entirely? (2) You cannot offer substantive proof that the CIA edited that particular article. Am I to assume that every article on wikipedia has been tampered with by the CIA?

So many on this board are in desperate need of a basic logic class. Their arguments, by and large, are beyond absurd; they are utterly fallacious.
becuase the article I read that detailed the CIA tampering of wikipedia was specifically related to Iran [/b]
Will you provide a link, a source, anything?

[La Comédie Noire]

Does everyone on the web suffer from delusions of grandure? I mean seriously, why would the CIA tamper with wikipedia? If this is such a pressing Issue why don't people mount a counter offesnive inwhich they correct everything the CIA "puts wrong."? In fact why would a goverment agencey that partakes in international espianoge and criminal warfare waste their time dicking around on the net?

Another thing that pisses me right off is when they say this site is being "watched". Don't be fucking silly people, if anything the police and private security forces are spying on real workers' action groups and Anarchist groups.

Give me 45 minutes and I'll answer as much of your questions as possible.

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 13, 2007 12:39 am
Does everyone on the web suffer from delusions of grandure? I mean seriously, why would the CIA tamper with wikipedia? If this is such a pressing Issue why don't people mount a counter offesnive inwhich they correct everything the CIA "puts wrong."? In fact why would a goverment agencey that partakes in international espianoge and criminal warfare waste their time dicking around on the net?

Another thing that pisses me right off is when they say this site is being "watched". Don't be fucking silly people, if anything the police and private security forces are spying on real workers' action groups and Anarchist groups.

Give me 45 minutes and I'll answer as much of your questions as possible.
Beautifully put. One of the best posts I have seen on here (though I do confess, that title was not difficult to attain).

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 13, 2007 12:39 am
Does everyone on the web suffer from delusions of grandure? I mean seriously, why would the CIA tamper with wikipedia? If this is such a pressing Issue why don't people mount a counter offesnive inwhich they correct everything the CIA "puts wrong."? In fact why would a goverment agencey that partakes in international espianoge and criminal warfare waste their time dicking around on the net?

Another thing that pisses me right off is when they say this site is being "watched". Don't be fucking silly people, if anything the police and private security forces are spying on real workers' action groups and Anarchist groups.

Give me 45 minutes and I'll answer as much of your questions as possible.
because someone on the net proved the cia was editing the site with their search engine--it was in the news and I know this because im a news junkie--now Ill post the link to this story the second I find it--be right back

[Mkultra]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6947532.stm

An online tool that claims to reveal the identity of organisations that edit Wikipedia pages has revealed that the CIA was involved in editing entries

Wikipedia Scanner allegedly shows that workers on the agency's computers made edits to the page of Iran's president.

[La Comédie Noire]

[/QUOTE]Wahhh!!!


Oh those devious bastards! :D

Other changes that have been made are more innocuous, and include tweaks to the profile of former CIA chief Porter Goss and celebrities such as Oprah Winfrey.


Oh my god I want justice!

In October 2005, a person using a Diebold computer removed paragraphs about Walden O'Dell, chief executive of the company, which revealed that he had been "a top fund-raiser" for George Bush.

A month later, other paragraphs and links to stories about the alleged rigging of the 2000 election were also removed.

The paragraphs and links have since been reinstated.[QUOTE]

I don't know about you but keeping the masses Ignorant for only a few hours doesn't seem all that effective to me.

Now even if these organization did do this it begs the question; Does it really matter? I mean most students, reporters, doctors, and writers of political theory collect their information from text and primary sources.

Who exactly are they trying to keep out of the loop here?

[Killer Enigma]

Bravo, Mr. Floyd. Bravo.

[Mkultra]

the non thinking people who blindly believe everything printed on Wikipedia which is daily edited by special interest groups with an anti human neocon agenda

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 01:08 am
the non thinking people who blindly believe everything printed on Wikipedia which is daily edited by special interest groups with an anti human neocon agenda
Anti-human? What exactly are you insinuating here? Aliens? Monsters? Demons, pray tell?

[Mkultra]

America is in the midst of an idealogical war--I can say what I want

[La Comédie Noire]

the non thinking people who blindly believe everything printed on Wikipedia which is daily edited by special interest groups with an anti human neocon agenda.

Phew! Good thing I don't take everything Wikipedia says to heart.

Oh and btw..


BBC News website users contacted the corporation to point out that the tool also revealed that people inside the BBC had made edits Wikipedia pages.

[Mkultra]

yeah but theyre not with the cia one would hope