Burma cremates its Holocaust Victims

[Mkultra]

In Burma, an opposition party member has been reportedly killed under interrogation by security forces of the military junta. A Thailand-based exile group says family members of National League for Democracy member Win Shwe were told he was dead and his body cremated

[Marsella]

Perhaps the title of this thread should be renamed?

I'm sure there have been hundreds of government sanctioned deaths but that doesn't warrant a comparison to the Holocaust.

[Mkultra]

what makes the holocaust unique?

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 10:09 pm
what makes the holocaust unique?
The Holocaust was a massive, systematic, and industrialized government effort to exterminate whole races of people...not a government knocking off a few hundred dissidents. That's horrible, but it happens all the time and is not comparable to The Holocaust.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Red October+October 12, 2007 03:33 am--> (Red October @ October 12, 2007 03:33 am)
[email protected] 11, 2007 10:09 pm
what makes the holocaust unique?
The Holocaust was a massive, systematic, and industrialized government effort to exterminate whole races of people...not a government knocking off a few hundred dissidents. That's horrible, but it happens all the time and is not comparable to The Holocaust. [/b]
actually your definition of the Holocaust happens all the time too

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 12, 2007 08:30 pm--> (Mkultra @ October 12, 2007 08:30 pm)
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 12, 2007 03:33 am

[email protected] 11, 2007 10:09 pm
what makes the holocaust unique?
The Holocaust was a massive, systematic, and industrialized government effort to exterminate whole races of people...not a government knocking off a few hundred dissidents. That's horrible, but it happens all the time and is not comparable to The Holocaust.
actually your definition of the Holocaust happens all the time too [/b]
Eh, no it doesn't.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Makaveli+October 12, 2007 09:42 pm--> (Makaveli @ October 12, 2007 09:42 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 08:30 pm

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 12, 2007 03:33 am

[email protected] 11, 2007 10:09 pm
what makes the holocaust unique?
The Holocaust was a massive, systematic, and industrialized government effort to exterminate whole races of people...not a government knocking off a few hundred dissidents. That's horrible, but it happens all the time and is not comparable to The Holocaust.
actually your definition of the Holocaust happens all the time too
Eh, no it doesn't. [/b]
yeah it does--most recently in the former Yugoslavia, Iraq and Darfur or any place theres been ethnic cleansing for that matter

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 12:08 am
yeah it does--most recently in the former Yugoslavia, Iraq and Darfur or any place theres been ethnic cleansing for that matter
No, it doesn't. Ethnic cleansing is of course worse than what is happening in Burma, but it does not necessarily equate to genocide, as the perpetrators would be satisfied in just forcibly removing the victims from the area they believe belongs to them.

And even among genocides - of which the best post-Holocaust examples would be Cambodia and Rwanda, not Yugoslavia or Darfur - Holocaust is clearly exceptional, as it was possibly the only genocide theorised as something that should be done in a systematic way.

Luís Henrique

[Mkultra]

thats only because the germans are so anal when it comes to efficiency

[The Living Red]

Surely Cambodia would be referred to as a democide, as Pol Pot's victims were killed for political, not ethnic reasons.

[Aurora]

thats only because the germans are so anal when it comes to efficiency
Reported

[Bilan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 01:09 pm
what makes the holocaust unique?
I wish people would fuck-off with this shit. It's getting so irritating.
The Holocaust refers to a specific event in history.

[Forward Union]

The Holocaust means "Completely Burnt" and I believe is derreived from Hebrew.

"the term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the National Socialist German Workers Party in Germany led by Adolf Hitler"

So you cannot call anything that wasn't the extermination of the jews in Europe "the holocaust" because it's not.!

[JoePedo]

Originally posted by William [email protected] 14, 2007 11:05 am
The Holocaust means "Completely Burnt" and I believe is derreived from Hebrew.
'Holistically caustic' is a Hebrew expression?

Learn something new every day...

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 10:49 am

thats only because the germans are so anal when it comes to efficiency
Reported
for what

geeze grow some skin-what a wuss

[Mkultra]

so they made up a word to only be used to describe ONE single event in all of world history and on top of that only to refer to one group of people in the context of said event?

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 08:46 pm
so they made up a word to only be used to describe ONE single event in all of world history and on top of that only to refer to one group of people in the context of said event?
Well the word itself existed before the actual Holocaust. Although the term 'holocaust' has been used to describe other genocides, it generally refers to the extermination of six million Jews in Europe.


for what

For using an ethnic stereotype, I would assume.


'Holistically caustic' is a Hebrew expression?

Holistically caustic? What the fuck does that mean? The word Holocaust isn't derived from 'Holistically caustic', it's derived from Greek.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Makaveli+October 14, 2007 08:57 pm--> (Makaveli @ October 14, 2007 08:57 pm)
[email protected] 14, 2007 08:46 pm
so they made up a word to only be used to describe ONE single event in all of world history and on top of that only to refer to one group of people in the context of said event?
Well the word itself existed before the actual Holocaust. Although the term 'holocaust' has been used to describe other genocides, it generally refers to the extermination of six million Jews in Europe.


for what

For using an ethnic stereotype, I would assume.


'Holistically caustic' is a Hebrew expression?

Holistically caustic? What the fuck does that mean? The word Holocaust isn't derived from 'Holistically caustic', it's derived from Greek. [/b]
so in a Holocaust where MANY people died it only refers specifically to Jewish people?

I dont think its a particulary insulting ethnic stereotype to say that germans are efficient--some people us political correct speech codes as a new form of victorianism

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 04:33 pm
I dont think its a particulary insulting ethnic stereotype to say that germans are efficient
It's still a stereotype. Just like "asians are good at math" or "jews are rich". A stereotype is still a stereotype no matter how positive you think it is, and it still indicates a lack of understanding on your part.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Red October+October 14, 2007 09:37 pm--> (Red October @ October 14, 2007 09:37 pm)
[email protected] 14, 2007 04:33 pm
I dont think its a particulary insulting ethnic stereotype to say that germans are efficient
It's still a stereotype. Just like "asians are good at math" or "jews are rich". A stereotype is still a stereotype no matter how positive you think it is, and it still indicates a lack of understanding on your part. [/b]
true but it wouldnt be a stereotype of it didnt have some element of truth to it -no?

[Red October]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 14, 2007 04:47 pm--> (Mkultra @ October 14, 2007 04:47 pm)
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 14, 2007 09:37 pm

[email protected] 14, 2007 04:33 pm
I dont think its a particulary insulting ethnic stereotype to say that germans are efficient
It's still a stereotype. Just like "asians are good at math" or "jews are rich". A stereotype is still a stereotype no matter how positive you think it is, and it still indicates a lack of understanding on your part.
true but it wouldnt be a stereotype of it didnt have some element of truth to it -no? [/b]
You're starting to sound a lot like the people who try to justify stereotypes like "all black people are lazy" and "all jews are greedy".

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Red October+October 14, 2007 09:51 pm--> (Red October @ October 14, 2007 09:51 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 04:47 pm

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 14, 2007 09:37 pm

[email protected] 14, 2007 04:33 pm
I dont think its a particulary insulting ethnic stereotype to say that germans are efficient
It's still a stereotype. Just like "asians are good at math" or "jews are rich". A stereotype is still a stereotype no matter how positive you think it is, and it still indicates a lack of understanding on your part.
true but it wouldnt be a stereotype of it didnt have some element of truth to it -no?
You're starting to sound a lot like the people who try to justify stereotypes like "all black people are lazy" and "all jews are greedy". [/b]
well I dont agree with those kinda crude and excessively negative stereotypes but thats not to say the stereotypes of groups are 100% inaccurate--I think every ethnic racial group do have certain genetic predispostions both negative and positive

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by The Living [email protected] 14, 2007 10:30 am
Surely Cambodia would be referred to as a democide, as Pol Pot's victims were killed for political, not ethnic reasons.
Pol Pot tried to systematically erase ethnic minorities in Cambodia.

[Mkultra]

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others

[Marsella]

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others

Firstly, it wasn't 'some' holocaust victims. It was approximately 6.1 million. That's equivalent to around 13% of the population of Burma.

Secondly, no one said that holocaust victims were somehow superior to other victims. All that was argued was your wrongful application of a specific term.

Thirdly, it would do well to put up a source so we can at least verify, to some degree, your claims.


I think every ethnic racial group do have certain genetic predispostions both negative and positive

Proof would be welcome.

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 05:26 pm
I think every ethnic racial group do have certain genetic predispostions both negative and positive
Where else did I read this? Oh yeah, stormfront. Some gene pools have predispositions to certain diseases, but I'd like to see you provide evidence that Germans are genetically predisposed to be more efficient than a Mongolian. Fuck off with this racist garbage.

[ComradeR]

While tragic the deaths of a few hundred political dissidents is hardly a genocide so saying it is a Holocaust is ridiculous.

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others
Nor do I, it is rather tragic that it is to often forgotten that millions of others from different ethnic minority's, the mentally retarded, and political opponents died in those Nazi death camps. But this in no way justify's reducing the word Holocaust to a meaningless phrase by using it to describe something like this (the killing of a few hundred political dissidents).

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 03:33 am

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others

Firstly, it wasn't 'some' holocaust victims. It was approximately 6.1 million. That's equivalent to around 13% of the population of Burma.

Secondly, no one said that holocaust victims were somehow superior to other victims. All that was argued was your wrongful application of a specific term.

Thirdly, it would do well to put up a source so we can at least verify, to some degree, your claims.


I think every ethnic racial group do have certain genetic predispostions both negative and positive

Proof would be welcome.
well your still specifying only some of the victims since your totally ignoring and devaluing the lives of the 6.1 million "other" people killed in the Holocaust

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Red October+October 15, 2007 03:48 am--> (Red October @ October 15, 2007 03:48 am)
[email protected] 14, 2007 05:26 pm
I think every ethnic racial group do have certain genetic predispostions both negative and positive
Where else did I read this? Oh yeah, stormfront. Some gene pools have predispositions to certain diseases, but I'd like to see you provide evidence that Germans are genetically predisposed to be more efficient than a Mongolian. Fuck off with this racist garbage. [/b]
its not racist if its true--Ive been to Germany and Ive seen the efficiency

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 10:30 am
While tragic the deaths of a few hundred political dissidents is hardly a genocide so saying it is a Holocaust is ridiculous.

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others
Nor do I, it is rather tragic that it is to often forgotten that millions of others from different ethnic minority's, the mentally retarded, and political opponents died in those Nazi death camps. But this in no way justify's reducing the word Holocaust to a meaningless phrase by using it to describe something like this (the killing of a few hundred political dissidents).
I think it was alot more then a few hundred killed in Burma firstly and secondly I think the horrific ways people are put to death is more relevant then the number of people put the death

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 15, 2007 01:24 pm--> (Mkultra @ October 15, 2007 01:24 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2007 10:30 am
While tragic the deaths of a few hundred political dissidents is hardly a genocide so saying it is a Holocaust is ridiculous.

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others
Nor do I, it is rather tragic that it is to often forgotten that millions of others from different ethnic minority's, the mentally retarded, and political opponents died in those Nazi death camps. But this in no way justify's reducing the word Holocaust to a meaningless phrase by using it to describe something like this (the killing of a few hundred political dissidents).
I think it was alot more then a few hundred killed in Burma firstly and secondly I think the horrific ways people are put to death is more relevant then the number of people put the death [/b]
Yes but a genocide entails the attempt to wipe out an entire people which leads to hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths, it is not the killing of a few hundred or even a few thousand political dissidents. The manner in which they are killed has nothing to do with whether it's genocide or not.

[Patchd]

Oh boy, Mkultra, you don't have to defend your ego, there is nothing wrong with accepting oneself is wrong, there is however, something silly in continuing to defend a position that has already been shown to be flawed.

The events in Burma are terrible yes, but it does not equate to the holocaust.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by ComradeR+October 15, 2007 02:14 pm--> (ComradeR @ October 15, 2007 02:14 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 01:24 pm

[email protected] 15, 2007 10:30 am
While tragic the deaths of a few hundred political dissidents is hardly a genocide so saying it is a Holocaust is ridiculous.

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others
Nor do I, it is rather tragic that it is to often forgotten that millions of others from different ethnic minority's, the mentally retarded, and political opponents died in those Nazi death camps. But this in no way justify's reducing the word Holocaust to a meaningless phrase by using it to describe something like this (the killing of a few hundred political dissidents).
I think it was alot more then a few hundred killed in Burma firstly and secondly I think the horrific ways people are put to death is more relevant then the number of people put the death
Yes but a genocide entails the attempt to wipe out an entire people which leads to hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths, it is not the killing of a few hundred or even a few thousand political dissidents. The manner in which they are killed has nothing to do with whether it's genocide or not. [/b]
thats the same thing as ethnic cleansing and its still goin on in the world today

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 04:53 pm
Oh boy, Mkultra, you don't have to defend your ego, there is nothing wrong with accepting oneself is wrong, there is however, something silly in continuing to defend a position that has already been shown to be flawed.

The events in Burma are terrible yes, but it does not equate to the holocaust.
im just not understanding how the Holocaust was unique--was what happened to the Armenians a holocaust?

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 15, 2007 05:35 pm--> (Mkultra @ October 15, 2007 05:35 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 02:14 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 01:24 pm

[email protected] 15, 2007 10:30 am
While tragic the deaths of a few hundred political dissidents is hardly a genocide so saying it is a Holocaust is ridiculous.

I dont think its fair to put some holocaust victims on a pedestal above others
Nor do I, it is rather tragic that it is to often forgotten that millions of others from different ethnic minority's, the mentally retarded, and political opponents died in those Nazi death camps. But this in no way justify's reducing the word Holocaust to a meaningless phrase by using it to describe something like this (the killing of a few hundred political dissidents).
I think it was alot more then a few hundred killed in Burma firstly and secondly I think the horrific ways people are put to death is more relevant then the number of people put the death
Yes but a genocide entails the attempt to wipe out an entire people which leads to hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths, it is not the killing of a few hundred or even a few thousand political dissidents. The manner in which they are killed has nothing to do with whether it's genocide or not.
thats the same thing as ethnic cleansing and its still goin on in the world today[/b]
No, ethnic cleansing is the forced removal of stigmatized ethnic group(s) from a given territory and often used as a military and political tactic, whereas genocide is a deliberate and systematic attempt to exterminate an entire ethnic group(s).

[Red October]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 15, 2007 12:36 pm--> (Mkultra @ October 15, 2007 12:36 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2007 04:53 pm
Oh boy, Mkultra, you don't have to defend your ego, there is nothing wrong with accepting oneself is wrong, there is however, something silly in continuing to defend a position that has already been shown to be flawed.

The events in Burma are terrible yes, but it does not equate to the holocaust.
im just not understanding how the Holocaust was unique--was what happened to the Armenians a holocaust? [/b]
No, why do you not get this? What happened to the Armenians was a genocide, but not a holocaust. The Holocaust refers specifically to the Nazi effort to exterminate Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, handicapped people, dissidents, and others. What is going on in Burma has nothing to do with the Holocaust. It is not a massive, industrialized effort to destroy ethnic minorities, it's a government knocking off a bunch of dissidents. Most governments do those sorts of things. To say The Holocaust is comparable to what is happening in Burma is total bullshit.

And you really need to stop with this racial stereotyping or prove your assertions. I know a ton of lazy Germans. Do you have evidence that Germans have some sort of gene that makes them naturally more efficient than others? And what is your opinion on stereotypes like "black people are lazy"? Do you believe there is truth in that?

[Mkultra]

I know when I flew into Amsterdam there were no delays at the airport

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 04:28 pm
I know when I flew into Amsterdam there were no delays at the airport
Omfg!!!!! That's all the proof I need to back up your ridiculous ethnic stereo types!

Now answer my question.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 05:36 pm
im just not understanding how the Holocaust was unique--was what happened to the Armenians a holocaust?
Mkultra, what does the Turkish ethnic cleansing/genocide of Armenians have to do with Burma and its crackdown on political dissidents? All we're saying is that by using the word "holocaust" to label harsh political repression, the meaning of the word "holocaust" is diminished. We're just asking for some accuracy, that's all.


I know when I flew into Amsterdam there were no delays at the airport

a.) Lots of airports all over the world are efficient. Does this prove anything about an ethnicity? No.

b.) Amsterdam is not in Germany, it's in the Netherlands.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Red October+October 16, 2007 10:03 pm--> (Red October @ October 16, 2007 10:03 pm)
[email protected] 16, 2007 04:28 pm
I know when I flew into Amsterdam there were no delays at the airport
Omfg!!!!! That's all the proof I need to back up your ridiculous ethnic stereo types!

Now answer my question. [/b]
what was your question specifically

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by manic expression+October 16, 2007 10:42 pm--> (manic expression @ October 16, 2007 10:42 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2007 05:36 pm
im just not understanding how the Holocaust was unique--was what happened to the Armenians a holocaust?
Mkultra, what does the Turkish ethnic cleansing/genocide of Armenians have to do with Burma and its crackdown on political dissidents? All we're saying is that by using the word "holocaust" to label harsh political repression, the meaning of the word "holocaust" is diminished. We're just asking for some accuracy, that's all.


I know when I flew into Amsterdam there were no delays at the airport

a.) Lots of airports all over the world are efficient. Does this prove anything about an ethnicity? No.

b.) Amsterdam is not in Germany, it's in the Netherlands. [/b]
if your a victim of a holocaust or harsh political repression your level of suffering remains the same--from the victims perspective the difference is merely academic

I know Amsterdams not in Germany but its the same racial/ethnic composition

[manic expression]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 02:27 am
if your a victim of a holocaust or harsh political repression your level of suffering remains the same
You used the term "holocaust" to describe a general repression. Sure, Burmese victims may have suffered as much as some victims of the holocaust, but does that apply to the general label you used? It's like if I called a gang-rape and murder of someone (which has a terribly high level of suffering) a "holocaust". It just doesn't make any sense because they are two completely separate things. Both included heavy amounts of suffering, but that is not enough to make it a "holocaust".


I know Amsterdams not in Germany but its the same racial/ethnic composition

How is it the same ethnic composition? A Bavarian or a Saxon would laugh in your face if you said that. Are you saying that people from Amsterdam and Munich and Friesland and Berlin are of the same mindset? The fact is that they really aren't. Amsterdam is Amsterdam is Amsterdam, not a representative of the "Germanic race".

[Mkultra]

but they all represent the same part of Europe and share a common ancestor with certain genetic racial traits



no I dont think Ordinary crimes are Holocausts but Im still not understanding the difference between genocides and holocausts

[Luís Henrique]

I see that some people are referring to the Holocaust as the killing of 6 million Jews by the Nazis.

This is incorrect. The Holocaust was the killing of 6 million Jews and about 5 million goyim (about 3 million Poles and other Slavs, about 200,000 Gypsies, and assorted political prisoners, "antisocials", gay men, mental patients, etc.)

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by The Living [email protected] 14, 2007 10:30 am
Surely Cambodia would be referred to as a democide, as Pol Pot's victims were killed for political, not ethnic reasons.
Chinese and Chinese-looking people were especially targeted by the Khmer Rouge.

(It seems that Chinese minorities suffer in Asia a kind of discrimination similar to that of Jews in Europe, being regarded as hucksters, manipulators, etc.)

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 03:27 am
but they all represent the same part of Europe
No, Amsterdam "represents" the part of Europe called "Netherlands", and Berlin "represents" the part of Europe called "Germany".

Luís Henrique

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 17, 2007 05:37 am
I see that some people are referring to the Holocaust as the killing of 6 million Jews by the Nazis.

This is incorrect. The Holocaust was the killing of 6 million Jews and about 5 million goyim (about 3 million Poles and other Slavs, about 200,000 Gypsies, and assorted political prisoners, "antisocials", gay men, mental patients, etc.)

Luís Henrique
From Wiki:


While there were other groups of people killed by the Nazi regime, scholars typically do not include them in the definition of the Holocaust, defining it as the genocide of the Jews

Now I know it's only Wiki, so take from that what you will.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Makaveli+October 17, 2007 05:31 pm--> (Makaveli @ October 17, 2007 05:31 pm)
Luís [email protected] 17, 2007 05:37 am
I see that some people are referring to the Holocaust as the killing of 6 million Jews by the Nazis.

This is incorrect. The Holocaust was the killing of 6 million Jews and about 5 million goyim (about 3 million Poles and other Slavs, about 200,000 Gypsies, and assorted political prisoners, "antisocials", gay men, mental patients, etc.)

Luís Henrique
From Wiki:


While there were other groups of people killed by the Nazi regime, scholars typically do not include them in the definition of the Holocaust, defining it as the genocide of the Jews

Now I know it's only Wiki, so take from that what you will. [/b]
typical wiki crapola which is why it must never be taken as a primary source

[Marsella]

typical wiki crapola which is why it must never be taken as a primary source

Its better than giving no sources. :rolleyes:

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 08:23 pm

typical wiki crapola which is why it must never be taken as a primary source

Its better than giving no sources. :rolleyes:
not necessarily when you consider how compromized wiki is ;)

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by Mkultra+October 17, 2007 08:16 pm--> (Mkultra @ October 17, 2007 08:16 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 05:31 pm

Luís [email protected] 17, 2007 05:37 am
I see that some people are referring to the Holocaust as the killing of 6 million Jews by the Nazis.

This is incorrect. The Holocaust was the killing of 6 million Jews and about 5 million goyim (about 3 million Poles and other Slavs, about 200,000 Gypsies, and assorted political prisoners, "antisocials", gay men, mental patients, etc.)

Luís Henrique
From Wiki:


While there were other groups of people killed by the Nazi regime, scholars typically do not include them in the definition of the Holocaust, defining it as the genocide of the Jews

Now I know it's only Wiki, so take from that what you will.
typical wiki crapola which is why it must never be taken as a primary source [/b]
Every single genocide in history is not a holocaust, so just get that into your head. It's really not hard to understand.

[Tatarin]

Now, compare the coverage of Venezuela and Burma...

[Comrade_Scott]

on the note of the holocaust why has nobody mentioned the gypsies or gays mentally ill or even blacks who were rounded up and killed? what happend to the jews was terrible and i sympathize with them but spare a thought for the other victims, the silent victims like the gypsy people who still suffer to this day.

holocaust is greek-from the Greek holókauston from holos "completely" and kaustos "burnt"(wikipedia)

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 05:07 pm
on the note of the holocaust why has nobody mentioned the gypsies or gays mentally ill or even blacks who were rounded up and killed? what happend to the jews was terrible and i sympathize with them but spare a thought for the other victims, the silent victims like the gypsy people who still suffer to this day.

holocaust is greek-from the Greek holókauston from holos "completely" and kaustos "burnt"(wikipedia)
I think I did mention the other groups persecuted in the Holocaust. In relation to the gypsies, their persecution is called the Porajmos, when referring specifically to that. And we don't call what is happening in Burma a Porajmos, so why should we call it a Holocaust? They are both terms that refer to specific events in history, not general descriptors for atrocity.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 09:16 pm
typical wiki crapola which is why it must never be taken as a primary source
Yeah, it's their typical "some argue" or "some scholars claim" waffle. It's so damn lazy. If scholars really agree on it, why not find some works by them? Hell, the part you cited probably has some footnotes with sources. Wikipedia is not necessarily flawed as a source, but it should never be used as one's only source. Especially pages like the Holocaust article on Wikipedia should be treated carefully, because it's a controversial article that is under the constant surveillance of partisans, kooks and trigger-happy administrators.

I do agree though that it's inappropriate to use the term "Holocaust" for every case of mass murder by a government. Red_October explained it quite well. Another reason that "Porajmos" is not commonly used is that it doesn't get much of a reaction, whereas "Holocaust" instantly triggers an emotional reaction.