Taiwanese independence

[MarxSchmarx]

Rats. I though I could make a poll. But oh well. So do you support formal secession for Taiwan? Why or why not?

And even if you're an anarchist, do you think it is a step in the right direction to formally "break" from a soulless distant nation state that claims illegitimate jurisdiction over your life (i.e. the PRC)?

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 06:43 am
And even if you're an anarchist, do you think it is a step in the right direction to formally "break" from a soulless distant nation state that claims illegitimate jurisdiction over your life (i.e. the PRC)?
Erm, what are you talking about? Taiwan was a province of China for thousands of years. It was taken over by the Chinese bourgeoisie to escape from the Communist forces, and they tried turning it into a "nation worthy of independence". Today only a few nations recognize it as an independent nation, and rightly so.

Of course the US pumped it full of capital as they did with South-Korea to prove to the world that capitalism is superior, but any serious person knows that's just nonsense. It is merely a neo-colony of the US, just as South-Korea is. Nothing more.

[RedStarOverChina]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 01:43 am
And even if you're an anarchist, do you think it is a step in the right direction to formally "break" from a soulless distant nation state that claims illegitimate jurisdiction over your life (i.e. the PRC)?
It's not exactly "breaking" from the state if it is being replaced with one that tries its utter best to install a different kind of fanatical nationalism.

And the theat this new nationalist sentiment poses to regional peace and wthe well being of the Taiwanese people is dire.




Taiwan was a province of China for thousands of years. It was taken over by the Chinese bourgeoisie to escape from the Communist forces, and they tried turning it into a "nation worthy of independence". Today only a few nations recognize it as an independent nation, and rightly so.

China reigned over parts of Taiwan (if not ruled) for almost 2000 years---but overall Taiwan didn't really become part of China until the 1600s (when it drove the Dutch out of there).

Then again, 97% of Taiwan's population today are Chinese immigrants; mostly came around the time China was liberated from the KMT.

[VukBZ2005]

Actually, over 10%-20% of the Taiwanese population are mainlanders that came to Taiwan upon the defeat of Chiang Kai-Shek in the Chinese Civil War.

Now, when it comes to the topic of Taiwanese Independence, my opinion is more or less subjected to the current situation of the East Asian region and so far, the current conditions do not allow for Taiwan to declare itself a de jure independent nation, thus I do not support such an action.

[Dr Mindbender]

the taiwanese leadership has some pretty nasty pro-US capitalist tendencies, so I'd be cynical about them having outright independence. If anything its probably better for the progressive movement for the Chinese to keep tabs on them.

[Zurdito]

what the hell is a soulless nation? what nation has a soul?

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 11:35 pm
what the hell is a soulless nation? what nation has a soul?
Palestine! :lol: ;)

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 11, 2007 06:11 pm
the taiwanese leadership has some pretty nasty pro-US capitalist tendencies, so I'd be cynical about them having outright independence. If anything its probably better for the progressive movement for the Chinese to keep tabs on them.
Hell, the Chinese have some pretty nasty capitalist/fascist pro-US things up they're sleeve too.

Right now, the state-capitalist China is the bigger problem, so I support independence for Taiwan.

[Cheung Mo]

The pro-independence parties come from bouregois liberal forces who spent years organising against and fighting the KMT dictatorship...The KMT is still an extremely corrupt and extremely authoritarian conservative party, and its allies -- the People First Party and the New Party -- are even worse. Now that Beijing has embraced nationalism and capitalism as opposed to socialism, it only makes sense that the old reactionary parties would be concilliatory towards the C"C"P.

As long as the KMT is more reactionary than the anti-Beijing parties, I see no reason to oppose Taiwanese self-determination, provided that WAshington and Beijing both mind their own fucking business (not gonna happen, but still).

It's just like in Hong Kong: The bourgeois liberal democratic opposition has generally supported the welfare state, civil liberties, and universal suffrage (HK's electoral system is even worse than Westminster or the USA's.) and consists of liberal and social-democratic organisations...The bourgeois conservative government is more stridently capitalistic, has traditionally opposed civil liberties, has stalled on democratic reforms, and has cut what little Hong Kong has had in terms of welfare state to shreds and consists of conservative and liberal-conservative organisations friendly to Beijing.

[MarxSchmarx]

Cheung Mo:

I found your post intriguing. What do you see as a viable, leftwing alternative to the KMT in the ROC? I thought this was what the DPP was supposed to be (sorry for the alphabet soup) - a kind of "fresh alternative" to the nationalists. I don't think a real socialist party will fly well in HK, but it seems they could get away with it in Taiwan.

I guess the question boils down to how you think the left should charge a course that is neither pro-KMT nor pro-mainland.


Actually, over 10%-20% of the Taiwanese population are mainlanders that came to Taiwan upon the defeat of Chiang Kai-Shek in the Chinese Civil War.

Huh, I thought it was higher?


what the hell is a soulless nation? what nation has a soul?

The Vatican?

Fair enough. Still, I think the politburo in Beijing is less responsive to their population's demands than the elite in Taibei.