Is Racism Natural?

[Chicom]

In the college I go to, the school blames all problems on "social construction." Well, it's not just my school, but most activists, mainly extreme feminists. Being a result of social construction means that it isn't natural, that it is a problem that society has created. However, I beg to differ.

If an alien comes into our planet, we will fear it. It could be the weakest thing in the universe, but we will still fear it. Why? Because we are not comfortable with it and because it is different. Let me ask you something, are you more comfortable with going to a social gathering with people of your own ethnicity more than going to a gathering with completely different people? Say you are Black and you go to an all white social gathering, you'll definitely feel odd. Why? Because you are different. The people there will think the same as well. Is that a result of social construction? No. It's a natural feeling because it's something you and others are not fond of.

We are uncomfortable with what is different. It's only natural...

[YSR]

Yeah, those fucking feminists. What do they know about socially-constructed discrimination? I mean, sexism is only natural. If you see someone who has a different appearance than you, like a male in a crowd of females, then of course you'll feel odd.

Sexism is just like racism: natural! Yay for patriarchy AND white supremacy!

[Chicom]

Originally posted by Young Stupid [email protected] 09, 2007 04:54 am
Yeah, those fucking feminists. What do they know about socially-constructed discrimination? I mean, sexism is only natural. If you see someone who has a different appearance than you, like a male in a crowd of females, then of course you'll feel odd.

Sexism is just like racism: natural! Yay for patriarchy AND white supremacy!
rofls talking bout racism. racism is different from sexism.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

It is clearly natural that some people will wish to murder others - murder has always existed in all societies and all modes of production. Could we therefore conclude that murder - or at least some forms of murder - should be tolerated, because it's natural?

Of course not. Whether something is "natural" or not has no bearing on whether it is good or bad. Indeed, if you take a look around you, you might notice that you are surrounded by the completely unnatural products of human industry.

By definition, something is "natural" if it would exist in the absence of human beings, or if it would exist in a primitive human tribe living before the invention of agriculture. But I'd rather not be a hunter-gatherer, thank you very much, so I have no particular love for "natural" behaviour (whatever that might be).

[Herman]

It is clearly natural that some people will wish to murder others

Quite the contrary. It is natural to not murder others, especially when by natural conditions we understand the importance of social interaction and aid.

[Bilan]

If an alien comes into our planet, we will fear it.It could be the weakest thing in the universe, but we will still fear it. Why? Because we are not comfortable with it and because it is different.

Are you saying that's natural, or that it's a product of our environment? You don't think that, perhaps, all that propaganda that you're fed about illegal immigrants, and what not, might just affect this, or maybe even determine your feelings toward this?
But more than that, are you suggesting that an alien, and a person of another color are somehow the same?

.
Let me ask you something, are you more comfortable with going to a social gathering with people of your own ethnicity more than going to a gathering with completely different people?

Its never made a fucking difference.
I tell you what though, I'd be more comfortable hanging out at a "social gathering" with a bunch of gangsters, than a closet racist.



Say you are Black and you go to an all white social gathering, you'll definitely feel odd. Why? Because you are different.

Or maybe because of the prejudice toward Black people from white governments? Or the persecution of Black people by the pigs, and the media?
We are taught to fear those who are different, it's not natural. That's dog shit.


The people there will think the same as well. Is that a result of social construction? No. It's a natural feeling because it's something you and others are not fond of.

Fuck off. That's not the reason at all.


We are uncomfortable with what is different. It's only natural...

No, it isn't. It's not natural. It's a product of our society, and it's structure.

[Forward Union]

Moved to OI, so Chicom can continue debating.

[synthesis]

Define "natural." As a matter of fact, define "racism."

"Social constructs" are just as natural a part of human behavior as pissing and shitting. It doesn't mean they can't be criticized, and dismantled if they are negative.

Discrimination is certainly a social construct, as it is a direct product of the social environment. Discrimination is meaningless if the one party does not have power over the other.

Yet the prejudices upon which discrimination is built have been demonstrated to be a basic part of human psychology; it's like an heuristic, natural "time-savers" in the brain. In other words, it's a lot easier for the human mind to generalize Jews or black people than to treat each one as an individual.

And distinctly different from discrimination, fighting prejudice does not necessarily require (and often is harmed by) treating the perpetrator as an enemy. "Hate the sin, love the sinner."

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 07:34 am

It is clearly natural that some people will wish to murder others

Quite the contrary. It is natural to not murder others, especially when by natural conditions we understand the importance of social interaction and aid.
That's funny, plenty of people murder each other every day without needing any kind of prompting. All you need is the realisation that the rules don't apply to you if you don't want them to.

It's clearly natural, if not necessarily acceptable to be suspicious of people outside one's in-group, and if that that in-group is defined at least in part by skin colour/physical features then racism is likely to follow.

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 09:50 pm
In the college I go to, the school blames all problems on "social construction." Well, it's not just my school, but most activists, mainly extreme feminists. Being a result of social construction means that it isn't natural, that it is a problem that society has created.
Have you actually listened to their arguments, and if so please try deconstructing their arguments.

If an alien comes into our planet, we will fear it.
Who says so?

It could be the weakest thing in the universe, but we will still fear it. Why? Because we are not comfortable with it and because it is different.
Who gives us the idea that things which are different from us should make us uncomfortable/fear it? Are those not the products of social construction/social norms? It could be a common sense brought into play, if you live in a reactionary or xenophobic place.

Of course, there would be reason to fear such things that pose a direct and blatant threat to your lives, such as poison animals or, in your scenario, some bloodthirsty aliens bent on putting humanity into slavery. :rolleyes:

Let me ask you something, are you more comfortable with going to a social gathering with people of your own ethnicity more than going to a gathering with completely different people?
No. For labelism's sake, being an American-Latin-American raised in the inner city where all races went to school together (at least during primary), I was completely unaware of such artificial differences between my classmates. Today, in college, that lack of care towards their skin colour has not gone away. Try meeting some people you consider 'different' and you might find out they're not all that different from you.

Say you are Black and you go to an all white social gathering, you'll definitely feel odd. Why? Because you are different. The people there will think the same as well. Is that a result of social construction? No. It's a natural feeling because it's something you and others are not fond of.
If in your situation, feeling odd, it indeed is a result of social construction because something about this feeling that 'I and others are not fond of' was pushed into my head via social/cultural norms dominant at that specific place in time and history.

We are uncomfortable with what is different. It's only natural...
Maybe in your white Suburbia.

[luxemburg89]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 04:50 am
In the college I go to, the school blames all problems on "social construction." Well, it's not just my school, but most activists, mainly extreme feminists. Being a result of social construction means that it isn't natural, that it is a problem that society has created. However, I beg to differ.

If an alien comes into our planet, we will fear it. It could be the weakest thing in the universe, but we will still fear it. Why? Because we are not comfortable with it and because it is different. Let me ask you something, are you more comfortable with going to a social gathering with people of your own ethnicity more than going to a gathering with completely different people? Say you are Black and you go to an all white social gathering, you'll definitely feel odd. Why? Because you are different. The people there will think the same as well. Is that a result of social construction? No. It's a natural feeling because it's something you and others are not fond of.

We are uncomfortable with what is different. It's only natural...
You have totally missed the point - a point, might I add, that anyone beyond the age of 12 would easily see. How do you know an alien is an alien - because society says it is. If the alien comes to you and says 'hello, I am from Mars.' then you would be surprised because you are told from a young age that people coming from mars are weird creatures bent on world domination - that or they are freaks, do you follow?
Equally if a white person thinks, or says, they would rather hang out with people of their own ethnicity then is that because they naturally think so? Or is it because the groups in control in society have told them that they are different - and that it is more 'normal' to be with your 'own kind'. Most of us grow up in a society where segregation is taught, or illustrated, from a young age and as such we grow to accept, and maybe practice, that in the future. Racism, therefore, is a behavioural trait picked up from society and not an innate natural feeling within us - that racism is natural seems as ridiculous as 'life is struggle' or 'Ayrans are superior' to me.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 09:34 am

It is clearly natural that some people will wish to murder others
Quite the contrary. It is natural to not murder others, especially when by natural conditions we understand the importance of social interaction and aid.
I said it was natural for some people to murder others; in other words, murders tend to occur within any sufficiently large human population, no matter the form of society or mode of production. Granted, the overwhelming majority of people do not murder, and some modes of production have higher murder rates than others, but I think it's safe to say that within any human society some murders will occur.

[Dr Mindbender]

Racism is based on material conditioning, as is the rationale for working class exploitation.

Example- Back in Roman times, slavery was 'colourless'. The thing that they had in common was they constituted the inhabitant peoples of conquered lands, nonetheless, white and black slaves toiled side by side under their imperial lords.
The roots of racism comes from the slave trade with its misconstrution of biblical text, and the way it was used for the rationale for the enslavement of the indigenous african peoples.

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 04:50 am
In the college I go to, the school blames all problems on "social construction." Well, it's not just my school, but most activists, mainly extreme feminists. Being a result of social construction means that it isn't natural, that it is a problem that society has created. However, I beg to differ.

If an alien comes into our planet, we will fear it. It could be the weakest thing in the universe, but we will still fear it. Why? Because we are not comfortable with it and because it is different. Let me ask you something, are you more comfortable with going to a social gathering with people of your own ethnicity more than going to a gathering with completely different people? Say you are Black and you go to an all white social gathering, you'll definitely feel odd. Why? Because you are different. The people there will think the same as well. Is that a result of social construction? No. It's a natural feeling because it's something you and others are not fond of.

We are uncomfortable with what is different. It's only natural...
There is a natural element to racism - fear of the unknown and clear ethnic differences. But as humans, we can and have a responsibility to overcome our fears when they are anti-social. In the case of racism, the drives that encourage it are mild and socially reinforced or uninforced, depending on your specific surrounding. It should be overcome the same way and at the same time that children learn to become empathetic as they grow. As a civilized society, it should be a fringe movement at best and laughable in the public sphere. Unfortunately, that's not the case, leading me to wonder how civilized our society really is.

[Chicom]

Originally posted by Edric O+October 09, 2007 08:11 pm--> (Edric O @ October 09, 2007 08:11 pm)
[email protected] 09, 2007 09:34 am

It is clearly natural that some people will wish to murder others
Quite the contrary. It is natural to not murder others, especially when by natural conditions we understand the importance of social interaction and aid.
I said it was natural for some people to murder others; in other words, murders tend to occur within any sufficiently large human population, no matter the form of society or mode of production. Granted, the overwhelming majority of people do not murder, and some modes of production have higher murder rates than others, but I think it's safe to say that within any human society some murders will occur. [/b]
Rofls Christian Communist. Go kiss Gods ass. God and Allah are fucking gay emo faggots and should go hang themselves. \m/

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Chicom
fucking gay emo faggots and should go hang themselves.

Just fuck off already. *angry*

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 11:02 pm
God and Allah are fucking gay emo faggots and should go hang themselves.
Actually, this God you speak of does not approve of homosexuality and if so would have to judge itself into damnation. Theoretically of course!

To summarize, you are wrong sir. Then again that's nothing new.

Bai bai!

[hajduk]

i have one friend and he is black and once he came in Bosnia,and after while he ask me are they Bosnians racist,becouse when he walk by the streets he noticed that lot of people staring at him,and i answer him No the Bosnians are not racist only they didnt have ocasions offenly to see black guy in public,except on tv,so for them you look a like that you came from some movie so that doesnt mean they are racist,and for my black friend that was wery funny thing so he became more relax in public when he saw the children came to him just to tuch him to see is he for real
so i think the racism is not natural but is mixed up with something what people doesnt see before,but imperialists use that to make confusion beetwen people

[Jazzratt]

This is troll bollocks, the member is currently suspended anyway and I hope to fuck their banned soon.

Upshot of which is that I am locking this thread.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

I think maybe the CC should start issuing lobotomies rather than restricitons...

No, racism isn't natural and nor is it different from sexism - both are means of discrimination based on rather trivial aspects of someones character to be innately superior/inferior... Sounds pretty whack to me..

Maybe very young children who've grown up in monocultural areas and have no cognitative development of the ideas of other races existing might find it awkward meeting people of other races, that's probably the closest thing to 'natural racism' you'd find - and even then there's no notion of superiority maybe just confusion.

Racism, sexism, class etc are not natural, they are all man made structures - People can be conditioned to find them natural, but in itself that's unnatural.

We have as much responsibility to break down discrimination as we do capitalism.