brainwashed kids at my school

[socialistsoldier51]

recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:

[Freigemachten]

Two points.

A. i don't think this belongs in discrimination.

B. This topic has been thoroughly discussed Here (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25500)

[Raúl Duke]

It's not that they would be paid the same but that instead everyone would have somewhat ("somewhat" because some have thought of devising "controls" for the distribution of goods if necessary, i.e. so to stop free loaders, etc. I have no opinion of this practice at the moment) equal access to the goods.

One good reason is that by replacing money, currency,etc with a communist economy would be that we would be rid of many/most/probably all the problems associated with money.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:25 am
Two points.

A. i don't think this belongs in discrimination.

B. This topic has been thoroughly discussed Here (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25500)
Even so, I think it belongs in learning rather than trash and as such I moved it.

===

The best place to start is by attacking their beliefs, starting them on the defensive. hopefully you can demolish their pro-cappie arguments well enough that they will be more receptive to an alternative.

[Comrada J]

Ask them why there needs to besuch a huge gap in between the rich and the poor, ask them why sports stars are payed the equivalent of 50 nurses, because they deserve it??

These kids you've been talking to probably feel apathetic to the rest of the world at the moment, so communism may be something they'll wont be able to grasp right now. Just keep the ball in their court until there ready discuss with an open mind.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 05:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:
Marxists do not think people should be paid the same. Marxists think that people should keep the full value of their labour (= they believe that people should be paid the same for the same amount of work) and that the system of wage labour should be abolished - in other words, your "payment" is not decided by a boss or some other authority, but by yourself and other workers together. And eventually, the final goal of Marxists is to abolish currency altogether.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?

Marx said in his critique of the gotha programme "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" (though there is some debate over whether this was a paraphrase of Bakunins "from each according to their faculties, to each according their needs")

The democratic working class ownership of the means of production does not equate to the equal distribution of wealth, as peoples needs vary, and those who do not work, abstain from the collective process and recieve nothing.

I think this is a far fairer and more constructive system than the current state of affairs, which sees a few wealthy men take a large proportion of my earnings to line their pockets.

Ask your classmates why they think it's ok for a few popus toffs to sponge off of you.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!
Reminds me of that Proudhon quote...


"Why, how can you ask such a question? You are a republican."
"A republican! Yes; but that word specifies nothing. Res publica; that is, the public thing. Now, whoever is interested in public affairs -- no matter under what form of government -- may call himself a republican. Even kings are republicans."
"Well! You are a democrat?"
"No."
"What! "you would have a monarchy?"
"No."
" A Constitutionalist?"
"God forbid."
"Then you are an aristocrat?"
"Not at all!"
"You want a mixed form of government?"
"Even less."
"Then what are you?"
"I am an anarchist."
"Oh! I understand you; you speak satirically. This is a hit at the government."
"By no means. I have just given you my serious and well-considered profession of faith. Although a firm friend of order, I am (in the full force of the term) an anarchist. Listen to me."

[KurtFF8]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:
Not to sound elitist or like an asshole, but if you don't know the answer to that question and have to consult the internet, perhaps you should do some more research and reading before you consider yourself to be a Marxist and instead admit that you're simply interested in Marxism.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

"Paid the same" -- uh, wha?

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:
its not so much that people will be 'paid the same' under communism, more that the rationale for people being paid less will be removed.

Personally, I subscribe to a technocratic vision of socialism, where humans doing menial jobs will be educated and trained to fulfill less alienating tasks while their former roles will be filled by automation and robots.

[UndergroundConnexion]

to be honest i think that is a fairly easy question to answer, very basic aswell. if you cannot argue against that one...

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 03:22 pm
to be honest i think that is a fairly easy question to answer, very basic aswell. if you cannot argue against that one...
Thats a little bit condenscending isnt it? Remember, there are no 'stupid questions' in the learning forum? :)

[UndergroundConnexion]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+September 29, 2007 03:24 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ September 29, 2007 03:24 pm)
[email protected]ber 29, 2007 03:22 pm
to be honest i think that is a fairly easy question to answer, very basic aswell. if you cannot argue against that one...
Thats a little bit condenscending isnt it? Remember, there are no 'stupid questions' in the learning forum? :) [/b]
oops! sorry :D

[Angry Young Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:
Tell them that it is because, in labour terms, everyone is WORTH about the same. Like the old saying, "you miss the cleaner before you miss the managing director."

Following with "If you perceive that there is no incentive, tell them that the incentive to be a doctor should really be for nobler reasons than 'give me some money'. Furthermore, as education would be democratized, more people would be able to become doctors - something that for many people would be otherwise unattainable. And as for lawyers, what the fuck do we need those grasping bastards for anyway?"

Conclude by telling them to take their incentives argument to the nearest wastage cubicle in case the andrex ran out.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Marxism isn't about people being paid the same, its about the people being put first the people being in control, it about the wealth made by people being used so everyone can benefit, not so a percentage made up of bankers and capitalist businessmen can have private jets and mansions and sport cars. People deserve living, equal wages. Everyone has a productive role in society.

[Colonello Buendia]

Marxism is not about everyone being paid equally. It is about people being paid accoridng to their profession. So a doctor would still be paid more than say a janitor but less than doctors get paid less than at the moment and more than Janitors get. A good example is in Animal Farm all the animals work to the best of their ability to get the harvest in and they get the food according to their size and requirements.

[Luís Henrique]

Ask them why people should be paid differently... or better even, why should some people be paid while others pay.

Luís Henrique

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 02, 2007 12:30 am
Ask them why people should be paid differently... or better even, why should some people be paid while others pay.

Luís Henrique
Begging the question is not a substitute for argument. "Communists" who phrase their beliefs in simple terms often use inarguable statements to which no one can reasonably digress.

[blackstone]

Originally posted by Killer Enigma+October 01, 2007 08:47 pm--> (Killer Enigma @ October 01, 2007 08:47 pm)
[email protected] 30, 2007 12:25 pm
Marxism is not about everyone being paid equally. It is about people being paid accoridng to their profession. So a doctor would still be paid more than say a janitor but less than doctors get paid less than at the moment and more than Janitors get. A good example is in Animal Farm all the animals work to the best of their ability to get the harvest in and they get the food according to their size and requirements.
Using Animal Farm as a means of justifying/demonstrating any kind of socialism is akin to walking outside in a wet suit during a lightning storm. [/b]
WHAT THE F? :wacko:

[AGITprop]

Originally posted by KurtFF8+September 28, 2007 07:47 pm--> (KurtFF8 @ September 28, 2007 07:47 pm)
[email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:
Not to sound elitist or like an asshole, but if you don't know the answer to that question and have to consult the internet, perhaps you should do some more research and reading before you consider yourself to be a Marxist and instead admit that you're simply interested in Marxism. [/b]
your absolutely right in sayin ghe should do more research to fully understand marxism..but i belive that even if you dont know all the details...even if you cannot answer the most challenging questions..its sumthing in your heart...in your soul...you just know that it is right..i still say hes a marxist!

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by Ender+October 03, 2007 11:06 pm--> (Ender @ October 03, 2007 11:06 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 07:47 pm

[email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:
Not to sound elitist or like an asshole, but if you don't know the answer to that question and have to consult the internet, perhaps you should do some more research and reading before you consider yourself to be a Marxist and instead admit that you're simply interested in Marxism.
your absolutely right in sayin ghe should do more research to fully understand marxism..but i belive that even if you dont know all the details...even if you cannot answer the most challenging questions..its sumthing in your heart...in your soul...you just know that it is right..i still say hes a marxist! [/b]
That is terrible logic. One must know and accept at least the basic premises of a theory, belief, or ideology in order to subscribe to it.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by Killer Enigma+October 03, 2007 06:23 pm--> (Killer Enigma @ October 03, 2007 06:23 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 11:06 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 07:47 pm

[email protected] 28, 2007 03:20 am
recently at my high school, some kids that sit next to me found out i was a marxist(not like i was hiding it) but they asking why i think people should be paid the same. i need some ideas of what to say back. any suggestions?(and of course nobody fuckin knows what a marxist is in CA because theyre all retarded so the only thing they could relate me to was a fucking nazi!!!) :angry:
Not to sound elitist or like an asshole, but if you don't know the answer to that question and have to consult the internet, perhaps you should do some more research and reading before you consider yourself to be a Marxist and instead admit that you're simply interested in Marxism.
your absolutely right in sayin ghe should do more research to fully understand marxism..but i belive that even if you dont know all the details...even if you cannot answer the most challenging questions..its sumthing in your heart...in your soul...you just know that it is right..i still say hes a marxist!
That is terrible logic. One must know and accept at least the basic premises of a theory, belief, or ideology in order to subscribe to it. [/b]
Agreed. Don't believe something just because it sounds "good" or "right" or "moral" or whatever. Make sure you know what you're talking about first. We are not "followers" who go back to the internet "preacher" to find arguments to spew.

[Killer Enigma]

That isn't to say that one must be perfectly fluent in Marxist apologetics and socialist theory in order to be considered a "communist", "socialist", or whatever label you desire. However, you ought to be familiar with the main tenets and basic premises before you associate yourself with something as important as a political ideology.