Real ID Act

[redcannon]

I recently learned of the Real ID Act, which is supposed to be active in the US by december 09, and it freaks the fuck out of me. I don't want to be carrying around an ID card with a RFID chip storing my personal information for my malicious government to use. God knows what privacy could be taken away with those little fuckers.

I swear to god, if they start producing these ID cards in my country, I'll move to one that doesn't.


but what are your thoughts?

here's a video from youtube. Its a bit long, but totally worth watching

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c7pHb7bPfMc

[Edgar]

It is indeed ominous. I know I certainly don't want any sick, bourgeois government having that much of my personal info.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 06:45 am
I recently learned of the Real ID Act, which is supposed to be active in the US by december 09, and it freaks the fuck out of me. I don't want to be carrying around an ID card with a RFID chip storing my personal information for my malicious government to use. God knows what privacy could be taken away with those little fuckers.

I swear to god, if they start producing these ID cards in my country, I'll move to one that doesn't.


but what are your thoughts?

here's a video from youtube. Its a bit long, but totally worth watching

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c7pHb7bPfMc
I work for a government department ( I wont say which) however what they are doing next year is bringing out the ID cards as a cheaper alternative for those who cant afford passports. My understanding though, is if you hold a passport then having an ID card wont be mandatory since the data from the card will be inputable into the biometric chip in the passport anyway. In a couple of years it wont be possible to avoid this intrusion, unless you dont want to travel because all passports will be incorporating the biometric technology. Since the U$A is insisting that all people entering the country with pp's issued from Oct 06 has the chip it means all countries will be bringing it out. Eventually no one will be able to sidestep it.

[redcannon]

i'm mostly concerned about the implant chips and the chips in money. also, what is this i hear about a passport being needed for inter-state travel in the US?

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

Most countries won't include Biometric chips in there passports... its too expensive.

America has killed its tourism industry.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Since the U$A is insisting that all people entering the country with pp's issued from Oct 06 has the chip it means all countries will be bringing it out. Eventually no one will be able to sidestep it.

The fucking US administration thinks it rules the world doesn't it?

[p.m.a.]

And people say I'm paranoid, when shit like the REAL ID Act is right under their noses. The American ruling class knows its hegemony is on an inevitable spiral downwards: and what happens when capitalist powers fall? Domestic authoritarianism.

[Faux Real]

Before I was a leftist, or conscious about politics at all, I used to listen to Coast to Coast AM (a notoriously conservative paranormal//conspiracist talk radio program). It was about 4-5 years ago, and they had brought this up.

Sadly it isn't too far from the truth. Amazing how that paranormal radio show got it right for once!

Well well, guess it's time for me to move outta the 'states.

[Jazzratt]

Everyone in possession of a working brain should be shitting themselves.

[Tatarin]

Sadly it isn't too far from the truth. Amazing how that paranormal radio show got it right for once!

It is interesting how control is interpreted to be chips and ID-cards. But aren't we already controlled? By widespread ignorance? How "free" are you if you quit your job? And if you depend on that job?

In other words, yes, this will make the job of the police much easier, but it doesn't "start" a controlled society.

But in the end, even if everybody had chips and ID-cards, would that really change anything if a billion angry people marched to overthrow capitalism?

The time to piss oneself's pants is when the chips and ID-cards have genuine physical effect - like pain if you do a "crime".

[IcarusAngel]

Have to agree with Tatarin. We're already controlled by capitalism in the US. Corporations have invaded every nook and cranny of our personal lives. The difference here is that the government is doing it, and the government is probably more accountable to the people than the corporations.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 09:40 pm

Sadly it isn't too far from the truth. Amazing how that paranormal radio show got it right for once!

It is interesting how control is interpreted to be chips and ID-cards. But aren't we already controlled? By widespread ignorance? How "free" are you if you quit your job? And if you depend on that job?

In other words, yes, this will make the job of the police much easier, but it doesn't "start" a controlled society.

But in the end, even if everybody had chips and ID-cards, would that really change anything if a billion angry people marched to overthrow capitalism?

The time to piss oneself's pants is when the chips and ID-cards have genuine physical effect - like pain if you do a "crime".
I largely agree with you in the sense that yes, in the immediate term this will probably have no effect and in another sense I disagree because these polocies that they are bringing in are limiting our movement even more than before. I dont think its wise to be complacent because this is another salami slice to our already dwindling freedom.

[IcarusAngel]

What's the big worry again? Used wisely, these technologies could help track missing people, animals who are missing (in this case they would be implanted), protect people from theft and fraud, etc.

I would think I would trust the government to use this more than the corporations. The corporations invade people's privacy: they test their employees for drug use, they monitor the time they leave their desk to use the restroom, they track what people watch, they track what people buy, etc. Corporations have thousands of tactics and spend millions monitoring people AND manipulating people, and they have succeeded.

Imagine if corporations got complete control of this technology (i.e. "privatized") and required workers to have one implanted in them before they're hired (say, 10 to 15 years from now or so). That's something totally legal to do in "laissez-faire capitalism." At least the government can make something like that illegal, and congressmen who advocate monitoring of our records or something could be voted out of office.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 03:08 pm
What's the big worry again? Used wisely, these technologies could help track missing people, animals who are missing (in this case they would be implanted), protect people from theft and fraud, etc.

I would think I would trust the government to use this more than the corporations. The corporations invade people's privacy: they test their employees for drug use, they monitor the time they leave their desk to use the restroom, they track what people watch, they track what people buy, etc. Corporations have thousands of tactics and spend millions monitoring people AND manipulating people, and they have succeeded.

Imagine if corporations got complete control of this technology (i.e. "privatized") and required workers to have one implanted in them before they're hired (say, 10 to 15 years from now or so). That's something totally legal to do in "laissez-faire capitalism." At least the government can make something like that illegal, and congressmen who advocate monitoring of our records or something could be voted out of office.

I think you should look into the fact that the US government is CONTROLLED BY THE CORPORATIONS

I myself have made plans to move to New Zealand, my reasoning being that europe will be quick to follow on this technology, and so will any N. American country.

TARTARIN:
does that mean that we should sit back and let the US inject us with homing devices and storage devices for private information?

[ComradeR]

It is interesting how control is interpreted to be chips and ID-cards. But aren't we already controlled? By widespread ignorance? How "free" are you if you quit your job? And if you depend on that job?

In other words, yes, this will make the job of the police much easier, but it doesn't "start" a controlled society.

But in the end, even if everybody had chips and ID-cards, would that really change anything if a billion angry people marched to overthrow capitalism?

The time to piss oneself's pants is when the chips and ID-cards have genuine physical effect - like pain if you do a "crime".
Your right capitalism is a controlled society, but there is a difference between a democratic republic and a police state which shit like this is a step towards. Under the guise of "protecting the people from terrorism" they strip the people of what little freedoms we have, we should never just sit back and rationalize it by saying it's not so bad or it will protect us.
You ever hear of the Advance Passenger Information System? the gist of it is that you will need permission from the United States Government to travel on any air or sea vessel that goes to, from or through the U.S. The travel companies will not be able to issue a boarding pass until you are cleared by DHS (Department of Homeland Security). It's going into effect in February 08. And then there is DHS's Secure Flight plan which will do the same thing for domestic flights when it's implemented by the end of 08 with with full implementation by 2010.

What's the big worry again? Used wisely, these technologies could help track missing people, animals who are missing (in this case they would be implanted), protect people from theft and fraud, etc.
Technologies like these will be used "wisely" by the bourgeois state to gain more control over the people pure and simple.

I myself have made plans to move to New Zealand, my reasoning being that europe will be quick to follow on this technology, and so will any N. American country.
The hell is up with so many comrades saying they are moving out of the US when this shit starts? When the US takes that turn we need to be right there in the thick of it not thousands of miles away even if it means a huge risk.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 02:00 am

The hell is up with so many comrades saying they are moving out of the US when this shit starts? When the US takes that turn we need to be right there in the thick of it not thousands of miles away even if it means a huge risk.
I guess so, but suppose by the time they start injecting people with the chips I have a family of my own. If that's the case, I'm getting them out of here. Besides, if the US suffers from emigration, who knows what lengths they might bend to?

[Comrade Rage]

I agree with ComradeR. We'll need to be there to capitalize on any possible resistance to RFID.

[Tatarin]

TARTARIN:
does that mean that we should sit back and let the US inject us with homing devices and storage devices for private information?

Of course not. We should resist any control over us. After all, nothing has changed: the more control they have over us, the less the chance of revolution.


Besides, if the US suffers from emigration, who knows what lengths they might bend to?

They build a wall - the Mexican Freedom Wall. It was always about keeping Americans in, not "illegal" immigrants out...

[Comrade Nadezhda]

This is exactly why I think fascism results from capitalism. People don't realize it but the fucking bourgeoisie control everything in the USA. Industry, media, everything.. it's all corporate. They say it's all for the good of fighting terrorism; honestly what do they think terror really is; this is the problem. in capitalist society this is what you end up with - because you have a bourgeois government and you already have subordination there, you already have minimal rights- capitalism is always talked about like its such a wonderful thing when really the only reason people talk about it that way is because they have been brainwashed into thinking so- that it is necessary when it's not, this is why i think its bullshit when people say revolutionary movement isnt necessary- seriously, in capitalist society what they want is for you to be a blind sheep because then they have control over the masses and thats what they want, thats exactly why this kind of shit will be implemented; exactly why i think bourgeois governments must be overthrown - it's necessary.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 02, 2007 08:18 pm
This is exactly why I think fascism results from capitalism. People don't realize it but the fucking bourgeoisie control everything in the USA. Industry, media, everything.. it's all corporate. They say it's all for the good of fighting terrorism; honestly what do they think terror really is; this is the problem. in capitalist society this is what you end up with - because you have a bourgeois government and you already have subordination there, you already have minimal rights- capitalism is always talked about like its such a wonderful thing when really the only reason people talk about it that way is because they have been brainwashed into thinking so- that it is necessary when it's not, this is why i think its bullshit when people say revolutionary movement isnt necessary- seriously, in capitalist society what they want is for you to be a blind sheep because then they have control over the masses and thats what they want, thats exactly why this kind of shit will be implemented; exactly why i think bourgeois governments must be overthrown - it's necessary.
sing it brotha

[TheDifferenceEngine]

"Video removed due to terms of use violations."

Corporate controlled media, what Corporate controlled media?

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 05:03 am
"Video removed due to terms of use violations."

Corporate controlled media, what Corporate controlled media?
oy. it just doesn't get any better, does it?

[Comrade Nadezhda]

I have to say this kind of shit makes me seriously consider leaving the country for the purpose of giving up my citizenship.

[ComradeR]

"Video removed due to terms of use violations."
Now there&#39;s a surprise. <_<

I have to say this kind of shit makes me seriously consider leaving the country for the purpose of giving up my citizenship.
Again with the "I&#39;m fleeing the country when it takes that final turn" Come on we have to be there in the thick of it in order to capitalizing on any resistance, and stir up resistance to it ourselves. We can&#39;t just flee and basically say to the fascists "here you go we&#39;re selling out the country and our fellow working class people for our own safety".

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 02:37 am
Again with the "I&#39;m fleeing the country when it takes that final turn" Come on we have to be there in the thick of it in order to capitalizing on any resistance, and stir up resistance to it ourselves. We can&#39;t just flee and basically say to the fascists "here you go we&#39;re selling out the country and our fellow working class people for our own safety".
Yes, of course, but from the way I see it for resistance to be effective there needs to be a mass effort- I agree with what you are saying but for a resistance effort to be effective in any small or large way there has to be an effort by many- and yes I would much rather resist it than leave. just like anything- it will not be effective if you are the only person doing so. i would of course make an attempt aside from that but there still needs to be greater effort in order for it to make an impact in any way.

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by Comrade Nadezhda+October 05, 2007 03:17 pm--> (Comrade Nadezhda @ October 05, 2007 03:17 pm)
[email protected] 05, 2007 02:37 am
Again with the "I&#39;m fleeing the country when it takes that final turn" Come on we have to be there in the thick of it in order to capitalizing on any resistance, and stir up resistance to it ourselves. We can&#39;t just flee and basically say to the fascists "here you go we&#39;re selling out the country and our fellow working class people for our own safety".
Yes, of course, but from the way I see it for resistance to be effective there needs to be a mass effort- I agree with what you are saying but for a resistance effort to be effective in any small or large way there has to be an effort by many- and yes I would much rather resist it than leave. just like anything- it will not be effective if you are the only person doing so. i would of course make an attempt aside from that but there still needs to be greater effort in order for it to make an impact in any way. [/b]
True but we have to do everything we can to stir up resistance if the country does finally take that last step towards dictatorship, and failing that go underground so that we are in place in order to stir up and/or capitalize on any uprising that could spontaneously take place which we wouldn&#39;t be able to do if we&#39;re thousands of miles away.

[Comrade Rage]

The Act goes into effect sometime in 2008 or 2010, so we had better work hard and fast.

BTW the Act&#39;s sponsor is James Sensenbrenner, a plus-plus-plus-plus size congressman from the suburbs of Milwaukee. He&#39;s the dickcheese behind the HR4437 Immigration bill.

[Axel1917]

The hell is up with so many comrades saying they are moving out of the US when this shit starts? When the US takes that turn we need to be right there in the thick of it not thousands of miles away even if it means a huge risk.

Exactly, as it is a fact that as far as the revolution is concerned, the USA is the most important country in the world for a victory of socialism, as it would kill the heart of world imperialism. The liberation of the USA will mean the liberation of the world. We can&#39;t let pinpricks scare us off.

Plus, will this even go forward? People in the USA are swinging to the left (they are still pretty far behind Latin American and European workers in terms of concsiousness, but they are turning toward the left.), and many may not take too kindly to this blatant act of a violation of their rights.

We must remember that the US workers are pretty anti-totalitarian, and this was used to whip them up against the Stalinist USSR. This anti-totalitarianism can very well end up biting the hand of the reactionaries that try to use it to stir the US workers against those that don&#39;t support US foreign policy (an extension of domestic policy.).


BTW the Act&#39;s sponsor is James Sensenbrenner, a plus-plus-plus-plus size congressman from the suburbs of Milwaukee. He&#39;s the dickcheese behind the HR4437 Immigration bill

He has been defeated before. Perhaps we can defeat him again.

With the crises unfolding, the capitalists can only do this to gain profits: attack the working class, attack the working class, attack the working class. The downward spiral of wages and living standards will push the masses further to the left, and they will confront the bourgeoisie. In fact, I will lay odds that due to how they are forced to keep attacking us, it will almost seem like they are intentionally seeking a fight and their downfall in the future.

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 06:06 am
True but we have to do everything we can to stir up resistance if the country does finally take that last step towards dictatorship, and failing that go underground so that we are in place in order to stir up and/or capitalize on any uprising that could spontaneously take place which we wouldn&#39;t be able to do if we&#39;re thousands of miles away.
I agree with you on that- but as I said there has to be large effort made in order for resistance to be successful even to the slightest degree. I will say that the more oppression, the more likely it will be for there to be resistance that makes any impact. but that requires the working class to be aware that of that they are subordinate to the bourgeoisie and the government they have control over. but there must be an effort made that is powerful enough to make an impact.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I have to say this kind of shit makes me seriously consider leaving the country for the purpose of giving up my citizenship.

The U.S. gov doesn&#39;t recognize the renouncing of U.S. citizenship anyway...

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 06, 2007 11:11 pm

I have to say this kind of shit makes me seriously consider leaving the country for the purpose of giving up my citizenship.

The U.S. gov doesn&#39;t recognize the renouncing of U.S. citizenship anyway...
regardless, if you gain citizenship in a foreign country that doesnt allow dual citizenship then you have to give up your american citizenship.

[ComradeR]

I agree with you on that- but as I said there has to be large effort made in order for resistance to be successful even to the slightest degree. I will say that the more oppression, the more likely it will be for there to be resistance that makes any impact. but that requires the working class to be aware that of that they are subordinate to the bourgeoisie and the government they have control over. but there must be an effort made that is powerful enough to make an impact.
Agreed but even if mass resistance seems unlikely at the time it is our duty to build up and/or capitalize on any resistance and help lead it in the right direction, which is something we cannot do if we are outside of the country, that is the point I&#39;m trying to make.

[Tower of Bebel]

I have an ID with a chip. Issued in Belgian a few years ago. I wonder what info it contains.

[Jazzratt]

Although these ID cards are bad I would like to point out that if we&#39;re going to be attacking the government for being voyeuristic and attacking our civil liberties we should be more concerned about the hundreds of CCTV cameras that catch our ugly mugs every day.

Here in Britain I remember reading somewhere that there were 3 CCTV cameras for every person. Every fucking person. Even in my town, a semi-rural place that, were it in America, would be called something like Bumfuck and would more than likely be in Arkansas, has CCTV covering pretty much every step I&#39;ll ever be likely to take.

Big brother, much?

[redcannon]

Ok, suppose I won&#39;t flee to new zealand, what exactly could I do here to stop this thing? As I know it, the surveillance of US citizens is already very prevalent. There are pictures and vast storages of info for every citizen. In a way, the Real ID act is just another part of the whole. So what are we supposed to do to stop this? Blow up DMV offices were the damn things are going to be distributed from? Or perhaps shoot out any camera we see?

US citizens may very well let this pass by the way. I did a school project with a couple of friends were we went up to 100 people of all ages on the street and asked them what they thought of surveillance. Of 100 people, 96 said that they thought it was necessary for our protection.

Also, if worst comes to worse, the US will just call in the national guard (like they&#39;ve done countless times before) to extinguish any opposition.

I&#39;m pretty much left with two options:
1) Go out against 96% of the population and the power of the US military
2) Move the fuck out of here.

I know which option I should support, but I also know which option is the safest for my family.
Thus begins the inner conflict

[Ultra-Violence]

The hell is up with so many comrades saying they are moving out of the US when this shit starts? When the US takes that turn we need to be right there in the thick of it not thousands of miles away even if it means a huge risk.


^^^^^
THIS&#33;

WTF? you talk shit about freedom then you run away when shit hits the fan? Me personaly i would love to travel the world and shit etc. but i am not goana abandone my homies over here no way no how.



Ok, suppose I won&#39;t flee to new zealand, what exactly could I do here to stop this thing? As I know it, the surveillance of US citizens is already very prevalent. There are pictures and vast storages of info for every citizen. In a way, the Real ID act is just another part of the whole. So what are we supposed to do to stop this? Blow up DMV offices were the damn things are going to be distributed from? Or perhaps shoot out any camera we see?

US citizens may very well let this pass by the way. I did a school project with a couple of friends were we went up to 100 people of all ages on the street and asked them what they thought of surveillance. Of 100 people, 96 said that they thought it was necessary for our protection.

Also, if worst comes to worse, the US will just call in the national guard (like they&#39;ve done countless times before) to extinguish any opposition.

I&#39;m pretty much left with two options:
1) Go out against 96% of the population and the power of the US military
2) Move the fuck out of here.

I know which option I should support, but I also know which option is the safest for my family.
Thus begins the inner conflict



Yeah i love my family and all of that jazz but theirs shit more important then them IMO my fucking Ideas and im willing to die get locked up what ever for them cuase i belive in them that much.Not saying you dont or what ever but that just my personal feelings

[redcannon]

Originally posted by Ultra&#045;[email protected] 07, 2007 07:02 pm

Yeah i love my family and all of that jazz but theirs shit more important then them IMO my fucking Ideas and im willing to die get locked up what ever for them cuase i belive in them that much.Not saying you dont or what ever but that just my personal feelings
Look, its not that i&#39;m just leaving the country for me. I would easily stay here and be beaten down by the police till no end. But i&#39;m not talking about me here, I&#39;m talking about my family. I wouldn&#39;t put them through brutality like for something that I believe in, that wouldn&#39;t be fair of me to make that choice for them.

In any case, what I&#39;d like to focus on at this point is what we can do about it now

[Ultra-Violence]

Originally posted by redcannon+October 08, 2007 05:11 am--> (redcannon @ October 08, 2007 05:11 am)
Ultra&#045;[email protected] 07, 2007 07:02 pm

Yeah i love my family and all of that jazz but theirs shit more important then them IMO my fucking Ideas and im willing to die get locked up what ever for them cuase i belive in them that much.Not saying you dont or what ever but that just my personal feelings
Look, its not that i&#39;m just leaving the country for me. I would easily stay here and be beaten down by the police till no end. But i&#39;m not talking about me here, I&#39;m talking about my family. I wouldn&#39;t put them through brutality like for something that I believe in, that wouldn&#39;t be fair of me to make that choice for them.

In any case, what I&#39;d like to focus on at this point is what we can do about it now [/b]
yeah were getting of topic....


As of what can we do now Is try to tell people what the fuck is going on since most of them dont seem to give a shit over here their more worried about Britney Spears losing custody of her kids

[Tatarin]

For one - spray paint the CCTV&#39;s...

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 10:17 pm
For one - spray paint the CCTV&#39;s...
great, absolutely fantastic idea. Will it stop the system? no, but it&#39;ll be a real pain in the ass for them. after all, if we spraypaint enough CCTVs then there will be less fining of the populous, and so less revenue for the pigs (the police system makes most of its money from penalty fines)

I for one am for this idea, but let&#39;s here some more. also, how about some ideas for spraypainting CCTV&#39;s without getting caught

[Edgar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 05:17 am
For one - spray paint the CCTV&#39;s...
Aren&#39;t the CCTV cameras usually pretty high off the ground? How could the average kid with a can of spray reach them?

And for those of you thinking of leaving the U.S.A when this goes down, do you seriously think all the other bourgeois countries aren&#39;t going to implement the same police state measures to keep their populations under the thumb of Big Brother?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 07:04 am
I for one am for this idea, but let&#39;s here some more. also, how about some ideas for spraypainting CCTV&#39;s without getting caught
I used to have a great resource describing how to take out CCTV without being caught, but (predicatbly) I can&#39;t find the damn thing.

Spray paint is crude and obvious, it&#39;s possible (if difficult) to fuck them up with a laser (say from one of those laser pointers you can get for - ooh, a couple of US dollars tops (about a quid where I am)), the drawback with this is that you have to point the thing at a very specific part of the camera, you won&#39;t know if you succeed and it can be obvious what you&#39;re trying to do.

Other options would include finding a selection of CCTV cameras in your area and planning a raid on them at night. You&#39;ll need to plan it well, and dress up ninja style but it&#39;s the best way. This works best if you have tall people who can climb and/or some useful gear (why use spray paint, for example, when you can whitewash the things with a paint roller on a pole.).

Sorry if this is of limited use but I&#39;ve never seen the point in trying to destroy the cameras as, especially in my area, they get repaired indecently quickly (especially compared with some of the community centres that stay decrepit for months or years at a time.).