Draneian Party

[Balci]

Hello comrades, I'm working with a new ideology/philosophy. some friends are already working on a book, and Ill just post parts of the program here, if you don't mind.

We could also need some members, so feel free to join in if you're interested.

Feedback Positive/negative is fine too.






The Draneian party is a political party concerned on the issues surrounding economics, morality, and the foundation of a non-corrupt society. We oppose fascism, corporatism, racism and totalitarianism. We thinks that nowadays ''Democracy'' is a myth, and that
people deserve a new and genuine form of government who does not control the nation after own interest..

What we are against

• Totalitarianism

• Corporatism - Business Imperialism

• Theocracies, but we do not oppose the wishes of the people if they want theocratic representation. However, we will not support the institution adopting a theocratic control over the state.

What we support

• We support a flexible system in concerning important issues to bring in the right results without disrupting the peace.

Concerning Issues

• Conspiracies – We seek to end the conspiracy treatment made by worldly governments towards their own citizens. We find it disturbing and highly unneeded. All information that the governments have kept as a secret from their own people shall be made adequate and available for the people. Moreover, there shall no longer be any practice of crafting future conspiracies.

• Culture - We support cultural conservation and the federalize administration of territory to insure and promote better local involvement and participation in society. We also see culture as a vital part of a country, where it serves as the international recognized identity of the people.

• Economics - We support social economics that fits well in promoting equal wealth for mutual survival and a second income associating to hard work and progress. The government’s role is to insure stability in the economic and marketing process to insure fair competition between small businesses by distributing and regulating the needed supplies for merchandise. Larger businesses would be greatly restricted to serve only in the interest of the local businesses.

• Education - Teaching is to engage in bring interest and enlighten someone in insuring their success in understanding the criteria. Since future lies in the hands of those who educate the youth, with resourceful teachers we secure a good future for the next generation of our species. Moreover, we will encourage people to open their mind to more modern ways of teaching.

• Energy Policies - we believe in conserving the environment and promoting greener energies for automobiles. Therefore, we promote the use of solar, wind, water, ethanol, and other alternative green energies. In addition, we condemn the practice of nuclear alternatives due to their potential harm in a meltdown situation and dangers in the hand of a rouge state.

• Health and Welfare - We need free public hospitals and schools as a vital part of a prosperous democracy. The government should seek to grant free health care and education to everyone regardless of his or her economical background. As for unemployment, everyone should have the right to find a job that fits his or her criteria. They government should enforce unemployed individual to seek the right to find a job that fits his or her criteria. The government should enforce unemployed individual to seek the right education as requested and the aggressive counseling needed to motivate them to work harder and more effective to contribute to society as an invaluable individual.

• International Politics - we will give our full support to those who would want to follow our example, the true democratic movement, and support to those who want a government that gives its people the democratic rights as inhabitants that they deserve.

• Intoxications – Drugs should solely exercise their intended medical usage, unless they serve in the cultural bounds for which are at a tolerable level. All other uses of drugs are illegal and should require an active explanation and executive authority to cut down these unnecessary and dangerous practices. This would include alcohol, tobacco, and other such intoxications.

• Military - We support a flexible military that takes part in society as a "reserves" sort of occupation. They serve in defense and work in separate jobs for the most when they are not serving the country. The role of the army will increase, as most citizens will take a role in it to insure the stability and security of the country. The role of the Army will serve in the interest of the people rather than use to oppress the people. Therefore, the military cannot take on any action without the will of the people to support it.

• Minorities - we believe all ethnic groups should have their administration of land and we believe in the destabilization of oppressive cultural assimilation. There should be a public works in bringing and promoting tolerance for people of difference.

• Political Corruption - we should establish a branch in the government that is full of dedicated individuals that serve in the interest of the people to remove power from corrupt people. It should be entitled in the constitution. The only role of government besides protection and security is to serve in the interest of the people to help and assist them in needed fashion that will allow them to start taking care of themselves.

• Science and Technology - We will seek to promote the idea that people need to better him or herself and that all of our progress should be dedicated towards improving our society and species. Cloning is an essential tool for the needed improvement of our medical system. Since there are conservative religious leaders and governments that forbid science as a part of disarraying the ''creator’s work,'' we will take the task up at one-hundred percent in establishing an active informative society that will insure a daily update on science and progress for that society.

[Herman]

This isn't anything new. It's what we call, "social-democracy" or "social-liberalism".

[Balci]

No, it's not, this is much more related to communism + positive parts from Machiavellianism , in every way. We will reform the whole society, till corruption is defeated, every ethnic minority got it's own land to govern over, and much more. Not to mention the program for the army.

Here goes.

Ready for Labour and Defence of the USSR(GTO) Remake by Draneian Party.

Instead of making the GTO branch a part of the civile defence, it will serve as the primary defense force of the nation and at the same time a civile defense force. No one will be educated to this proffesion as their primary proffesion, but an secondary one, which is used whenever a catastrophe finds place, wars, nature disasters, and whatever could be catagorizited as an event mentioned above.

The Get ready to defend (GRD) program

Whenever a child enters school at the aprox. age of 6, he/she will be introduced to the program where casual people are trained to preserve freedom and human rights in their country. The program include sports and P.E which promote teamwork and other important factors which also is seen as vital in other scenarios.

When the person gets at the age of 16, he/she will enter a new program which centres around
medical aid, Martial arts and basics which lays the foundation of aiding other people in wars, natural disasters etc. Sports and P.E will play a smaller role, when they already been thought the ground principes about teamwork.

After the age of 18, the person will be participating in military and sivile defense trainings. There is also further education in martial arts, such as ninjutsu and kenjutsu, for those who made remarks in their martial arts. For those who rather not want to participate in military trainings, there is open for them to continue as teachers, medical support etc. which not are directly involved with the work of the GRD groups.

Since the GRD group prior defense, counter-attack and sneak operations before pure attack strategies, weapons will also be limited, as special general issue weapons should be made, which are robust, extremely portable, user-friendly and easy to transport, at the same time, easy to modify. The weapons should be used often in trainings for the 18+ group, and in conflicts, they should be very easy to get a hold on for those who have passed the whole program and learned the basics. Courses will also be able to take for those who want to utilize their weapon as either a long distance rifle or other options.

As for martial art fighters, they will get sufficient education in the arts of ninjutsu and kenjutsu, and utilize their blade weapons at the most. Blades are robust weapons who don't let the user down when needed, and in modern warfare, were close encounters is a fact, its all about the skills of the stealth soldier, his skills to become invisible for the enemy and strike all of sudden.

6-16 years: Sports, P.E who promote teamwork

16-18 years: Medical training, Martial arts, sufficient skills about helping victims of war and other catastrophes.

18+ years: All mentioned above, + military training, further education in Martial arts/Ninjutsu/Kenjutsu.

[Darkseid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:29 pm
This isn't anything new. It's what we call, "social-democracy" or "social-liberalism".
That is an intellectual fallacy.

Anyways as director of the Draneian Party and co-founder along with Balci, there are some things I would like add.

We want to promote an intellectual society, one that adopts the six virtues of intellectuality and tries to deminish the five vices.

[Edgar]

Nowhere do you say that your party seeks to end capitalism. You are just a petty-bourgeois reformist liberal.

[Faux Real]

That self-defense program does indeed sound interesting.

However, I think the gist of your ideology will not be popular here.

What are your thoughts on capitalism and on how to abolish it?

[spartan]

Jesus Christ! we have two of these reactionaries on our forum now! Fuck off!

[Balci]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:38 pm
Nowhere do you say that your party seeks to end capitalism. You are just a petty-bourgeois reformist liberal.
While we may allow smaller businesses, we strive to end ''capitalism'', lobbyism, corruptism as it is today, what we try to introduce you to here is a attempt at reforming the whole society, and we won't use time to try to remove capitalism, we must rather stimulate the egoism, or remove it, in some way, reminding the human that cooperation is the most important part of a society.

[Edgar]

Originally posted by Balci+September 22, 2007 10:45 pm--> (Balci @ September 22, 2007 10:45 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 10:38 pm
Nowhere do you say that your party seeks to end capitalism. You are just a petty-bourgeois reformist liberal.
While we may allow smaller businesses, we strive to end ''capitalism'', lobbyism, corruptism as it is today, what we try to introduce you to here is a attempt at reforming the whole society, and we won't use time to try to remove capitalism, we must rather stimulate the egoism, or remove it, in some way, reminding the human that cooperation is the most important part of a society. [/b]
Listen, buddy, this forum is for people who believe in the revolutionary overthrow of the capitalist system. If you can't get behind that goal, then get lost and don't come back.

[Balci]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:41 pm
That self-defense program does indeed sound interesting.

However, I think the gist of your ideology will not be popular here.

What are your thoughts on capitalism and on how to abolish it?
Whatever you think, I was/is still a communist myself, but absolutely no progress is made with communism today, we need something new, and if you absolutely want to remove some capitalistic parts of a government, this is your best bet.

[Balci]

Originally posted by Edgar+September 22, 2007 10:48 pm--> (Edgar @ September 22, 2007 10:48 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:45 pm

[email protected] 22, 2007 10:38 pm
Nowhere do you say that your party seeks to end capitalism. You are just a petty-bourgeois reformist liberal.
While we may allow smaller businesses, we strive to end ''capitalism'', lobbyism, corruptism as it is today, what we try to introduce you to here is a attempt at reforming the whole society, and we won't use time to try to remove capitalism, we must rather stimulate the egoism, or remove it, in some way, reminding the human that cooperation is the most important part of a society.
Listen, buddy, this forum is for people who believe in the revolutionary overthrow of the capitalist system. If you can't get behind that goal, then get lost and don't come back. [/b]
yeah, I'd love to see the small minority of communists in your country, overthrow your government. I've given up a long time ago, rude lardasses as you, and a ignorant society is the reason
Good luck with your 21 century revolution, you'll need it.

[Faux Real]

Capitalism itself will bring a form of communism about.

The thinking that communists go around telling people about it absent of a capitalist crisis comes isn't realistic. The people themselves will see that their economic system isn't sustainable, and will then look towards a revolutionary overthrow of the previous system in favour of common ownership of the means of production. With changing their state of mind, or common sense, communism is a reality.

Reform is impossible as the fat-cats will never allow such legislation that threatens their status as bourgeoisie.

[Darkseid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:38 pm
Nowhere do you say that your party seeks to end capitalism. You are just a petty-bourgeois reformist liberal.
Well we promote National Socialism and small market capitalism. As an experienced small-market salesman I know that you need the small markets to be pretty much clear of government control. But the larger companies need to be controlled or otherwise you start having Corporatism rather than Capitalism. True Capitalism is only on the small market level and truly works only on the small market level. Small market as in Jimmy Joe's Hot Dog stand. Socialism would work in providing each small business the needed resources to continue prospering.

So it is a mix of capitalism and socialism on small market level. On the big market level it is entirely communist with huge restrictions and control over the entire thing, so that big markets don't take out the small ones, which act as the cultural integrity of that particular community.

[Ismail]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:58 pm
Well we promote National Socialism
I hope you're talking about nationalistic Socialism (still a bad idea) rather than the...er....you know. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism)

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 03:58 pm
Well we promote National Socialism and small market capitalism.
Oh my.

[Darkseid]

Originally posted by Mrdie+September 22, 2007 11:00 pm--> (Mrdie @ September 22, 2007 11:00 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 05:58 pm
Well we promote National Socialism
I hope you're talking about nationalistic Socialism (still a bad idea) rather than the...er....you know. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism) [/b]
lol nice one.

But we aren't nazis. What I'm saying is that you use socialism on a national level.

Also you need to be clear on what you say, because it is highly confusing.

[spartan]

Darkseid:
Well we promote National Socialism and small market capitalism.
National Socialism! And small market Capitalism! Fuck off you reactionary trying to poison people on here!
Do you really think that the Bourgeoisie will allow you to get elected into power? Because i dont think so! To quote Stalin "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.".

[Balci]

Originally posted by rev0lt+September 22, 2007 11:01 pm--> (rev0lt @ September 22, 2007 11:01 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 03:58 pm
Well we promote National Socialism and small market capitalism.
Oh my. [/b]
Considering I'm part Kurdish, and Darkseid got Jewish relatives. And we included in our program that fascism, totalitarianism and racism is foes.

[Darkseid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:05 pm
Darkseid:
Well we promote National Socialism and small market capitalism.
National Socialism! And small market Capitalism! Fuck off you reactionary trying to poison people on here!
Do you really think that the Bourgeoisie will allow you to get elected into power? Because i dont think so! To quote Stalin "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.".
Well screw you intellectual coward. Rather than showwing how afraid you are to a little bit of free economics on a county or should I say village base level, maybe you should get off your lazy ass and see for yourself by opening up a lemonaid stand up in a communist country like North Korea and see how long you'll stay around.

You guys are all talk. Once the Draneian Party publishes one book on its philosophy all of you will become devout Draneians.

I would discourage laughing as it is an intellectual vice to show fear.

[Balci]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:05 pm
Darkseid:
Well we promote National Socialism and small market capitalism.
National Socialism! And small market Capitalism! Fuck off you reactionary trying to poison people on here!
Do you really think that the Bourgeoisie will allow you to get elected into power? Because i dont think so! To quote Stalin "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.".
wow, you quote stalin, fucking good job.

[Ismail]

In the end, capitalism still exists under your ideology. Ergo it is incompatible with the ideologies of this board.

[Balci]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:09 pm
In the end, capitalism still exists under your ideology. Ergo it is incompatible with the ideologies of this board.
In the end, after years with your meaningless ''revolution''-hyping, 98% of the earth will give a fuck. Ergo you are wasting your time.

[spartan]

Darkseid:
Well screw you intellectual coward.
Fuck you you defender of the Bourgeoisie and their Capitalism! With your ideology you unknowingly (Or knowingly you tell us?) support the oppression of the Proletariat you ignorant fool. Unless of course people like you get off of oppressing people? Because it would not surprise me.
Balci:
wow, you quote stalin, fucking good job.
This is one of the things i happen to agree with him on.

[Ismail]

Originally posted by Balci+September 22, 2007 06:10 pm--> (Balci @ September 22, 2007 06:10 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 11:09 pm
In the end, capitalism still exists under your ideology. Ergo it is incompatible with the ideologies of this board.
In the end, after years with your meaningless ''revolution''-hyping, 98% of the earth will give a fuck. Ergo you are wasting your time. [/b]
What about in developing countries? Do you at least support revolutions there? (Nepal, etc)

[Darkseid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:09 pm
In the end, capitalism still exists under your ideology. Ergo it is incompatible with the ideologies of this board.
Well you see dude. You got to blend things in a little bit or you'll end up with a failure because an absolute socialist state doesn't work in a human society.

Maybe if we were on Gogoyuyu Vulcan 5 in the stellar system of Zuubzuub that has humaniods that can devout themselves to Marxism, then your ideas may work. But here on Earth, we need to mix it up plain and simple.

I mean China which was communist and is now more capitalistic, because it realized how much it needs free economy.



What about in developing countries? Do you at least support revolutions there? (Nepal, etc)

Of course we do. Our whole principle of cultural conservation will encourage a revolution in each empire-republic/monarchy that exists on this planet. Australia will become a two super-state joined state to insure something for the aboriginals. America will become a multi-super state dominion along with Canada and Mexico.

Just to create a super-state requires a revolution.

Plus we have plans to develope Eritrea, Somalia, and many other developing states into prosperous communities.

Plus we have to establish a five branch system like Taiwan and Venezuela. A tricameral legislature and a tri-leaded executive with one supreme position as head of state with limited ability and two stronger prime minister like positions (one for domestic and one for foreign matters). The supreme position is needed to nominate people for those two positions and to break out disputes between the two prime minister positions.

All these ideas cannot pass without a revolution and they are absolutely critical for a government to succeed under a truly equal society.

Plus I've also considered there to be a restriction placed on how much wealth one person can have, which will insure more economic equality between individuals.


Fuck you you defender of the Bourgeoisie and their Capitalism!

You know I was proving a point that you are a coward and here you just provided me with concrete evidence to certify that point. Thank you.



With your ideology you unknowingly (Or knowingly you tell us?) support the oppression of the Proletariat you ignorant fool.

Again thank you for your cowardice.



Unless of course people like you get off of oppressing people? Because it would not surprise me.

I don't oppress people, I'm cherokee. And if you've studied my people's history you would know why we don't oppress people. But thank you for your cowardice. Also, Stalinism oppresses people. Corruptive Communism oppresses people. Even Anarchism can oppress people. But how in the fuck does Bill Joe's Hot Dog Stand oppress people?

We are talking about Mr. Nobody out on a street corner selling hotdogs and being granted to do so because of Localized Free-Economics. How does that oppress people?

[Ismail]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:12 pm
Well you see dude. You got to blend things in a little bit or you'll end up with a failure because an absolute socialism doesn't work in a human society.
The usual capitalist "human nature" argument is all I see here.

Human beings don't have a natural want to create money nor go towards capitalism. Capitalism simply made their lives better. That is how capitalism came into existence. Same with Feudalism, etc. Socialism and then Communism (or for anarchists, anarchism) obviously has the appeal of making the lives of people much better.

[Balci]

Originally posted by Mrdie+September 22, 2007 11:12 pm--> (Mrdie @ September 22, 2007 11:12 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:10 pm

[email protected] 22, 2007 11:09 pm
In the end, capitalism still exists under your ideology. Ergo it is incompatible with the ideologies of this board.
In the end, after years with your meaningless ''revolution''-hyping, 98% of the earth will give a fuck. Ergo you are wasting your time.
What about in developing countries? Do you at least support revolutions there? (Nepal, etc) [/b]
To make short things short, I come from a such country myself, and a revolution is the last fucking thing we think about, it's our freedom, and right to a land.

However, it's a reason a developing country is in it's current state, 1000 internets to you if you guess right.

[spartan]

Darkseid:
I mean China which was communist is now more capitalistic, because it realized how much it needs free economy.
China was never Communist and with that remark you have cemented the fact that you know nothing about true Communism (Which you have been argueing fervently against) only what you have read in your Bourgeoisie approved history books about state Capitalism (Which you ignorantly think is Communism). You should be restricted soon or better still banned coming here with your pro Capitalist propaganda and your making excuses for their oppression of us.

[Ismail]

What about Russia in 1917? Would you support the Bolsheviks? Or the White Movement.

[Edgar]

The "Draneian party" gets only 81 hits on a Google search. I'd be surprised if this group has more than two or three members.

[Balci]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:17 pm
The "Draneian party" gets only 81 hits on a Google search. I'd be surprised if this group has more than two or three members.
7, and counting. Considering we are writing more, than recruiting.

[Ismail]

-Will the peaceful abolition of private property be possible?-

It would be desirable if this could happen, and the communists would certainly be the last to oppose it. Communists know only too well that all conspiracies are not only useless, but even harmful. They know all too well that revolutions are not made intentionally and arbitrarily, but that, everywhere and always, they have been the necessary consequence of conditions which were wholly independent of the will and direction of individual parties and entire classes.

But they also see that the development of the proletariat in nearly all civilized countries has been violently suppressed, and that in this way the opponents of communism have been working toward a revolution with all their strength. If the oppressed proletariat is finally driven to revolution, then we communists will defend the interests of the proletarians with deeds as we now defend them with words.Frederick Engels, The Principles of Communism, 1847

[Balci]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:46 pm

-Will the peaceful abolition of private property be possible?-

It would be desirable if this could happen, and the communists would certainly be the last to oppose it. Communists know only too well that all conspiracies are not only useless, but even harmful. They know all too well that revolutions are not made intentionally and arbitrarily, but that, everywhere and always, they have been the necessary consequence of conditions which were wholly independent of the will and direction of individual parties and entire classes.

But they also see that the development of the proletariat in nearly all civilized countries has been violently suppressed, and that in this way the opponents of communism have been working toward a revolution with all their strength. If the oppressed proletariat is finally driven to revolution, then we communists will defend the interests of the proletarians with deeds as we now defend them with words.Frederick Engels, The Principles of Communism, 1847
and your point is? that commies will save people against themselves ?

[piet11111]

Originally posted by Balci+September 22, 2007 11:18 pm--> (Balci @ September 22, 2007 11:18 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 11:17 pm
The "Draneian party" gets only 81 hits on a Google search. I'd be surprised if this group has more than two or three members.
7, and counting. Considering we are writing more, than recruiting. [/b]
7 poeple and their "theory/philosophy" vs the entire communist movement

well best of luck to you guys hopefully you will come back to communism after your finished with your draneian experiment.

[Balci]

Originally posted by piet11111+September 22, 2007 11:57 pm--> (piet11111 @ September 22, 2007 11:57 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:18 pm

[email protected] 22, 2007 11:17 pm
The "Draneian party" gets only 81 hits on a Google search. I'd be surprised if this group has more than two or three members.
7, and counting. Considering we are writing more, than recruiting.
7 poeple and their "theory/philosophy" vs the entire communist movement

well best of luck to you guys hopefully you will come back to communism after your finished with your draneian experiment. [/b]
who told you we had to be ''VS'' you? you can't do shit anyways. Even neo nazies is more active where I live than my own communist party.

[Ismail]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:52 pm
and your point is? that commies will save people against themselves ?
The word "commies" is a bit of a pejorative.

My point is that any actual progress towards a Communist society will be fought against by the bourgeois. Engels was essentially saying that if that ever happens, we should violently overthrow the oppressors.

[Balci]

Originally posted by Mrdie+September 23, 2007 12:02 am--> (Mrdie @ September 23, 2007 12:02 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 06:52 pm
and your point is? that commies will save people against themselves ?
The word "commies" is a bit of a pejorative.

My point is that any actual progress towards a Communist society will be fought against by the bourgeois. Engels was essentially saying that if that ever happens, we should violently overthrow the oppressors. [/b]
violently overthrow? don't make me laugh now.

[Ismail]

Violent overthrow is clearly impossible. For example, look at Russia, Albania, China, Cuba, Korea, Vietnam, most anti-colonialist movements...

[Dimentio]

Who is Dranei?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I've suspended the "Draneians" pending restriction.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 02:07 am
Who is Dranei?
Googling that word, I think they have a connection to the Assyrians and the Kurds, or at least to the Middle East. They also seem to have religious beliefs.

[Raúl Duke]

hahah, these people think of themselves, their party, and their ideology so smugly!

Sounds like Social Liberalism/Green Party (with a hint of nationalism when it comes to "protecting the culture") ideology re-package into one.

At least I suppose we can all agree that their ideology is truly petit-bourgeoisie ,since they support small businesses over multinational corporations.

These people don't even know what communism is, considering the fact they called "socialist" countries like China and the USSR communist.

Even if they were to win and do their thing, in the end their reformism will end up to very predictable results: Nothing substantially permanent.


one that adopts the six virtues of intellectuality and tries to deminish the five vices.

Usually, a state that pushes people to be virtuous against their will could be considered fascist (or totalitarian)


if you absolutely want to remove some capitalistic parts of a government, this is your best bet.

Reformism has been tried before...and it lead us to where we are now...

Most/All reformist parties are now pro-capitalist parties.


As an experienced small-market salesman

Since being determines conscious...now I know why you made up this petit-bourgeoisie ideology


You guys are all talk. Once the Draneian Party publishes one book on its philosophy all of you will become devout Draneians.

I would discourage laughing as it is an intellectual vice to show fear.

Actually, a forum is for talking.

Many people here are active in real life.

hmm, so I suppose you're planning to make it illegal to laugh? You did said that your government was to minimize the "intellectual vices" and maximize the "intellectual virtues"


In the end, after years with your meaningless ''revolution''-hyping, 98% of the earth will give a fuck. Ergo you are wasting your time.

However, we have seen what years of reformism leads to...ergo we know you are wasting your time.


But how in the fuck does Bill Joe's Hot Dog Stand oppress people?

Because once self-employed Billy's business begins to grow...he will begin to employ people into wage slavery.

Your idea doesn't eliminate wage slavery.

Also, the existence of money never guarantees a society of equals, no matter how many "controls" over it you make.

In the end, you and your ideas belong in OI.

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:07 pm
Who is Dranei?
Haven't you played World of Warcraft? :lol:

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by rev0lt+September 23, 2007 02:44 am--> (rev0lt @ September 23, 2007 02:44 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 06:07 pm
Who is Dranei?
Haven't you played World of Warcraft? :lol: [/b]
http://www.boomstick.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/Draenei.jpg

:huh:

[Random Precision]

Your system does not abolish capitalism, neither does it establish workers' self-management. You do not support the class struggle. You do not seek the establishment of a classless society. You therefore have no place on this board. In addition, I find your proposals concerning the military frightening, your proposals on drugs authoritarian, and your proposals on minorities smacking of the same seperatist logic that you will find readily available on fascist sites like Stormfront.

Mods, I would reccommend restricting these guys, and possibly even banning them depending on further exploration of their ideas on race.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

They've been suspended pending restriction (only an admin can do that, of which I am no longer one).

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 23, 2007 02:53 am
They've been suspended pending restriction (only an admin can do that, of which I am no longer one).
When did you stop being an admin, anyway?

[Red Scare]

why don't you call yourselves the labour party? good luck with your philosophy, let me make some suggestions: give some more power to people, make it completely classless, enough with the minority segregation, give workers rights, and enough with the authortarian and military bullshit. besides that, get a better name. :) :A: :star:

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:58 pm
National Socialism
.... :blink: :huh: <_<
about that....

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Red Scare+September 23, 2007 03:30 am--> (Red Scare @ September 23, 2007 03:30 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 05:58 pm
National Socialism
.... :blink: :huh: <_<
about that.... [/b]
They mean "socialism in one country" rather than Nazism. I thought that they meant Nazism at first as well, but they don&#39;t.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

When did you stop being an admin, anyway?

I resigned a while back.

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+September 22, 2007 09:33 pm--> (Red_Anarchist @ September 22, 2007 09:33 pm)
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 23, 2007 03:30 am

[email protected] 22, 2007 05:58 pm
National Socialism
.... :blink: :huh: <_<
about that....
They mean "socialism in one country" rather than Nazism. I thought that they meant Nazism at first as well, but they don&#39;t. [/b]
o....
well they could be smart enough to use better terminology, I do not want them to lead my country if they confuse nazism with socialism

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Red Scare+September 23, 2007 03:40 am--> (Red Scare @ September 23, 2007 03:40 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 09:33 pm

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 23, 2007 03:30 am

[email protected] 22, 2007 05:58 pm
National Socialism
.... :blink: :huh: <_<
about that....
They mean "socialism in one country" rather than Nazism. I thought that they meant Nazism at first as well, but they don&#39;t.
o....
well they could be smart enough to use better terminology, I do not want them to lead my country if they confuse nazism with socialism [/b]
I don&#39;t think English is their first language, so they may not realise the link.

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:24 pm
We oppose fascism, corporatism, racism and totalitarianism.
hmmm.... something wrong with that sentence... O yeah, where did capitalism go?

[Red Scare]

good, you moved this thread to the appropriate place :) :star:

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Red Scare+September 23, 2007 03:49 am--> (Red Scare @ September 23, 2007 03:49 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 05:24 pm
We oppose fascism, corporatism, racism and totalitarianism.
hmmm.... something wrong with that sentence... O yeah, where did capitalism go? [/b]
Aren&#39;t corporatism and fascism the same thing?

[Herman]

This petty ideology of yours has no place among socialists. It is not new. Neo-bolsheviks, social-democrats, facists and liberals have all already been talking about these ideas of yours.

You seek to abolish corruption and egoism by controlling the so called "corporatism" and allowing a small degree of free market locally.

But the free market and capitalism already encourage selfish behaviour and fierce barbaric competition. What happens when two Joe&#39;s sell hot dogs? What happens when they sell five? And ten? Eventually there is competition, there is a necessity to expand the business, hiring other people, buying more sites, etc.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I believe that fascism involves corporatism, but that corporatism does not necessarily involve fascism. IIRC "corporatism" is where there is a national union that is run by the government.


The Draneian party is a political party concerned on the issues surrounding economics, morality, and the foundation of a non-corrupt society. We oppose fascism, corporatism, racism and totalitarianism. We thinks that nowadays &#39;&#39;Democracy&#39;&#39; is a myth, and that
people deserve a new and genuine form of government who does not control the nation after own interest..

The government has no place dictating morality. That is up to society as whole, not the legislature.

Ideally, a government should be looking after the nation&#39;s interest as a whole.


What we are against

• Totalitarianism

• Corporatism - Business Imperialism

• Theocracies, but we do not oppose the wishes of the people if they want theocratic representation. However, we will not support the institution adopting a theocratic control over the state.

So far, so average.


What we support

• We support a flexible system in concerning important issues to bring in the right results without disrupting the peace.

This is very vague. What exactly do you mean?


Concerning Issues

• Conspiracies – We seek to end the conspiracy treatment made by worldly governments towards their own citizens. We find it disturbing and highly unneeded. All information that the governments have kept as a secret from their own people shall be made adequate and available for the people. Moreover, there shall no longer be any practice of crafting future conspiracies.

Sounds good to me. It would be interesting to see how national security would fit into this though.


• Culture - We support cultural conservation and the federalize administration of territory to insure and promote better local involvement and participation in society. We also see culture as a vital part of a country, where it serves as the international recognized identity of the people.

I think education is more important than culture, which, like morality, is something for society as a whole to decide.


• Economics - We support social economics that fits well in promoting equal wealth for mutual survival and a second income associating to hard work and progress. The government’s role is to insure stability in the economic and marketing process to insure fair competition between small businesses by distributing and regulating the needed supplies for merchandise. Larger businesses would be greatly restricted to serve only in the interest of the local businesses.

Why the need for a second income? Why not just pay people more?
Good luck trying to restrict large businesses to serve only the interest of small business. They&#39;ll either fight you all the way or leave the country, which won&#39;t be good for the economy.
While it&#39;s good to have laws against unfair competition and monopolies, I feel you are going too far.

How do you feel about state ownership of things like utilities, energy generation, communications etc?


• Education - Teaching is to engage in bring interest and enlighten someone in insuring their success in understanding the criteria. Since future lies in the hands of those who educate the youth, with resourceful teachers we secure a good future for the next generation of our species. Moreover, we will encourage people to open their mind to more modern ways of teaching.

Nice platitudes, but requires more specifics.


• Energy Policies - we believe in conserving the environment and promoting greener energies for automobiles. Therefore, we promote the use of solar, wind, water, ethanol, and other alternative green energies. In addition, we condemn the practice of nuclear alternatives due to their potential harm in a meltdown situation and dangers in the hand of a rouge state.

I feel you are doing nuclear technologies a great disservice by dismissing them so readily. Modern nuclear power is clean, safe and contributes hardly anything to climate change. Considering that nuclear weapons have not been used in anger for over 60 years, I feel we have nothing to worry about over nuclear proliferation.


• Health and Welfare - We need free public hospitals and schools as a vital part of a prosperous democracy. The government should seek to grant free health care and education to everyone regardless of his or her economical background. As for unemployment, everyone should have the right to find a job that fits his or her criteria. They government should enforce unemployed individual to seek the right to find a job that fits his or her criteria. The government should enforce unemployed individual to seek the right education as requested and the aggressive counseling needed to motivate them to work harder and more effective to contribute to society as an invaluable individual.

Again, sounds good. How do you feel about supporting those who are unable to work due to illness or disability?


• International Politics - we will give our full support to those who would want to follow our example, the true democratic movement, and support to those who want a government that gives its people the democratic rights as inhabitants that they deserve.

This is far too vague to be a coherent foreign policy.


• Intoxications – Drugs should solely exercise their intended medical usage, unless they serve in the cultural bounds for which are at a tolerable level. All other uses of drugs are illegal and should require an active explanation and executive authority to cut down these unnecessary and dangerous practices. This would include alcohol, tobacco, and other such intoxications.

I completely and utterly disagree with this. Not only is this government meddling in affairs that do not concern them, namely morality, but it will lead to inevitable disaster, as the United State&#39;s "War on Drugs" shows; thousands in prison for non-violent crimes hurting non-one but themselves, careers, lives and livelyhoods destroyed by aggressive anti-drugs policies, bad science and worse advice brought about by the government&#39;s desire to disseminate propaganda and eliminate research on drugs (which the massive pharm companies love - it means they get to sell their manufactured drugs instead of the opiates that can be derived from poppies) and that&#39;s just the start.


• Military - We support a flexible military that takes part in society as a "reserves" sort of occupation. They serve in defense and work in separate jobs for the most when they are not serving the country. The role of the army will increase, as most citizens will take a role in it to insure the stability and security of the country. The role of the Army will serve in the interest of the people rather than use to oppress the people. Therefore, the military cannot take on any action without the will of the people to support it.

This sounds like a better idea than a full-time volunteer army or a conscripted army, and also sounds like it would put a crimp on imperialist adventures due to having to call up reserves to get the army up to full strength.


• Minorities - we believe all ethnic groups should have their administration of land and we believe in the destabilization of oppressive cultural assimilation. There should be a public works in bringing and promoting tolerance for people of difference.

A government policy of "colour-blindness" would be far simpler and less likely to have nasty knock-on effects like Muslim communities being able to enforce Sharia law.


• Political Corruption - we should establish a branch in the government that is full of dedicated individuals that serve in the interest of the people to remove power from corrupt people. It should be entitled in the constitution. The only role of government besides protection and security is to serve in the interest of the people to help and assist them in needed fashion that will allow them to start taking care of themselves.

A dedicated anti-corruption branch eh? I can see that being useful in some countries - not so much in others.


• Science and Technology - We will seek to promote the idea that people need to better him or herself and that all of our progress should be dedicated towards improving our society and species. Cloning is an essential tool for the needed improvement of our medical system. Since there are conservative religious leaders and governments that forbid science as a part of disarraying the &#39;&#39;creator’s work,&#39;&#39; we will take the task up at one-hundred percent in establishing an active informative society that will insure a daily update on science and progress for that society.

Sounds good, if once again a little vague.


6-16 years: Sports, P.E who promote teamwork

16-18 years: Medical training, Martial arts, sufficient skills about helping victims of war and other catastrophes.

18+ years: All mentioned above, + military training, further education in Martial arts/Ninjutsu/Kenjutsu.

I like the sound of that, but at 18 I think it would be a good idea to give the options of 2 years selective service/training in either the Civil Service, Fire & Rescue services, Paramedics or a field of scientific or engineering expertise in addition to any military options.

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:42 pm
Jesus Christ&#33; we have two of these reactionaries on our forum now&#33; Fuck off&#33;
You need to get a hold of yourself. These people, while they do not have a fully agreeable ideology, have come here without antagonism and tried to promote a very liberal, humanist ideology.

You, on the other hand, have taken the immediate response from leftists & semi-leftists here and militantly promoted it, something you do in nearly every thread. Why should they leave? Why is their ideology reactionary? I think you have no other interest but to conform to what you see at the prevailing ideology here, which is disgusting. It is submissiveness, and as Marx pointed out, submission is one of the greatest vices - and an enemy of any productive revolution or humanist social order.

Perhaps you feel morally rejected in your surroundings, like most here do, but your responses in these forums have been little more than the exact same orthodoxy.

[luxemburg89]

The Get ready to defend (GRD) program

Whenever a child enters school at the aprox. age of 6, he/she will be introduced to the program where casual people are trained to preserve freedom and human rights in their country. The program include sports and P.E which promote teamwork and other important factors which also is seen as vital in other scenarios.

When the person gets at the age of 16, he/she will enter a new program which centres around
medical aid, Martial arts and basics which lays the foundation of aiding other people in wars, natural disasters etc. Sports and P.E will play a smaller role, when they already been thought the ground principes about teamwork.

After the age of 18, the person will be participating in military and sivile defense trainings. There is also further education in martial arts, such as ninjutsu and kenjutsu, for those who made remarks in their martial arts. For those who rather not want to participate in military trainings, there is open for them to continue as teachers, medical support etc. which not are directly involved with the work of the GRD groups.

Since the GRD group prior defense, counter-attack and sneak operations before pure attack strategies, weapons will also be limited, as special general issue weapons should be made, which are robust, extremely portable, user-friendly and easy to transport, at the same time, easy to modify. The weapons should be used often in trainings for the 18+ group, and in conflicts, they should be very easy to get a hold on for those who have passed the whole program and learned the basics. Courses will also be able to take for those who want to utilize their weapon as either a long distance rifle or other options.

As for martial art fighters, they will get sufficient education in the arts of ninjutsu and kenjutsu, and utilize their blade weapons at the most. Blades are robust weapons who don&#39;t let the user down when needed, and in modern warfare, were close encounters is a fact, its all about the skills of the stealth soldier, his skills to become invisible for the enemy and strike all of sudden.

6-16 years: Sports, P.E who promote teamwork

16-18 years: Medical training, Martial arts, sufficient skills about helping victims of war and other catastrophes.

18+ years: All mentioned above, + military training, further education in Martial arts/Ninjutsu/Kenjutsu.

Well I will be opposing your party. You are obviously creating some sort of military ideal - where students are geared for little else other than war - which is sickening. You don&#39;t seem particularly interested in freedom at all. Surely the ideal state will have no need for war - a World revolution should be geared for peace, what reason would there be for fighting and war? Yet you seem to be obviously interested in arming the youth - disarming everyone would be a far more just cause I feel. There is nothing internationalist in this - remember we are interested in WORLD equality - not in one jumped up militaristic state, which seems to be what you are interested in; it is therefore NOTHING like Marxist communism.

I am very glad this has been placed in Opposing Ideologies - where it clearly belongs.

[Ol' Dirty]

Could someone trash this thread? Nothing constructive can come from talking about a hypothetical party based on someone&#39;s personal political beliefs.

[Tatarin]

I thought it read Draconian Party...


The Draneian party is a political party concerned on the issues surrounding economics, morality, and the foundation of a non-corrupt society.

All parties promise this, don&#39;t they?


We thinks that nowadays &#39;&#39;Democracy&#39;&#39; is a myth, and that people deserve a new and genuine form of government who does not control the nation after own interest..

Capitalism is not democracy.


• Conspiracies – We seek to end the conspiracy treatment made by worldly governments towards their own citizens.

Familiar with X-fileism huh, my favourite.


We find it disturbing and highly unneeded.

Highly unneeded? You find it disturbing?

You should demand the immediate shut-down of all American military bases, demand an apology for those unfortunate enough to have been brainwashed by the capitalist war mashine and put in desperate countries to rob them and kill their citizens, and you should demand all corporate, military, and bureaucratic personel, responsible for the USA&#39;s wars, be charged with war crimes and murder in a court created and controlled by the workers of the USA&#33;


Moreover, there shall no longer be any practice of crafting future conspiracies.

And what might those conspiracies be? Global domination? Another crashed alien spacecraft-coverup (as aliens just love the US and love to crash there all the time)?


We also see culture as a vital part of a country, where it serves as the international recognized identity of the people.

And what if people change their culture? Would that oppose your Dracon, uh, I mean Diaonian Party? In that case, you must create a secret police to put down such a stupid attemt as the change of culture. Besides that point, where does culture start? Do you want to preserve the culture from yesterday? Or from today?

Basically - people change, thus changes society.


Larger businesses would be greatly restricted to serve only in the interest of the local businesses.

You do realize that as soon as you mention this to corporate media, your party will begin to diminish?


Since future lies in the hands of those who educate the youth, with resourceful teachers we secure a good future for the next generation of our species.

Else, people are organic bags unable to learn anything?


dangers in the hand of a rouge state.

I&#39;ve always thought the idea of "rouge state" to be kind of funny. It sounds like all of the world is united in a big union in where everybody agrees with everyone and all governments hold each other hands - but then comes this little, corrupted, communistical, Chaveist-Il-Sung-Stalin-Mao-Potist, whateverevilist state and ruins it all for everyone in the else utopian capitalist union.

Which is not the case. But we should still keep our eyes open for those evil North Koreans and Iranians and Venezuelans, becuase who knows, one of them may be lurking behind a reactor, ready to take all nuclear materials as soon as the engineer turns his back on him.
:P


As for unemployment, everyone should have the right to find a job that fits his or her criteria.

We already have the "right" to "find" wage-slavery that "fits us".


• International Politics - we will give our full support to those who would want to follow our example, the true democratic movement, and support to those who want a government that gives its people the democratic rights as inhabitants that they deserve.

Honestly, didn&#39;t Bush say just about the same thing during that United Nations meeting?


This would include alcohol, tobacco, and other such intoxications.

Well, people have "intoxicated" themselves with these "poisons" for millenia. And what happens if people want to smoke and drink?


The role of the Army will serve in the interest of the people rather than use to oppress the people.

Of course, which is still the objective of the United States Military. Only sometimes, to defend the world from evil, you must send the military to poor, desperate and resource-rich countries to defend "your" people.


we believe in the destabilization of oppressive cultural assimilation.

...but then you state that:


There should be a public works in bringing and promoting tolerance for people of difference.

...thus you, technically, support oppressive cultures, but at the same time want them to tolerate other cultures?


every ethnic minority got it&#39;s own land to govern over,

I just had a thought. What if all 6.5 billion people, all around the world, declared themselves to be ethnic minorities? That would abolish all countries as we know it&#33;

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Balci+September 22, 2007 10:45 pm--> (Balci &#064; September 22, 2007 10:45 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 10:38 pm
Nowhere do you say that your party seeks to end capitalism. You are just a petty-bourgeois reformist liberal.
While we may allow smaller businesses, we strive to end &#39;&#39;capitalism&#39;&#39;, lobbyism, corruptism as it is today, what we try to introduce you to here is a attempt at reforming the whole society, and we won&#39;t use time to try to remove capitalism, we must rather stimulate the egoism, or remove it, in some way, reminding the human that cooperation is the most important part of a society. [/b]
Do you support the principle of working class power? If not, your ideas will not be welcome here. The fact that you feel the need to have a &#39;military&#39; to defend &#39;countries&#39; says enough really.

If you hate capitalism so much why bother setting up your own sectarian party and ideaology? We will have more chance of victory united than divided. The only conclusion i can draw is that you find the idea of communism/socialism/anarchism distasteful, so you are therefore a reactionary.

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:24 pm
The Draneian party is a political party concerned on the issues surrounding economics, morality, and the foundation of a non-corrupt society. We oppose fascism, corporatism, racism and totalitarianism. We thinks that nowadays &#39;&#39;Democracy&#39;&#39; is a myth, and that
people deserve a new and genuine form of government who does not control the nation after own interest..
I don&#39;t have any substantial opposition here.


What we are against

• Totalitarianism

• Corporatism - Business Imperialism
..or here...


• Theocracies, but we do not oppose the wishes of the people if they want theocratic representation. However, we will not support the institution adopting a theocratic control over the state.
What constitutes a theocratic control over the state? isn&#39;t theocratic representation the same thing? Why is some theocracy OK but total theocracy not?


What we support

• We support a flexible system in concerning important issues to bring in the right results without disrupting the peace.
...ok... as was pointed out, this is very vague.


Concerning Issues

• Conspiracies – We seek to end the conspiracy treatment made by worldly governments towards their own citizens. We find it disturbing and highly unneeded. All information that the governments have kept as a secret from their own people shall be made adequate and available for the people. Moreover, there shall no longer be any practice of crafting future conspiracies.
This is fairly vague, too. You should specify exactly what kind of gov&#39;t coverups you&#39;re talking about; conspiracies are not only gov&#39;t - cover-ups, you know.


• Culture - We support cultural conservation and the federalize administration of territory to insure and promote better local involvement and participation in society. We also see culture as a vital part of a country, where it serves as the international recognized identity of the people.
What about preservation of mysogynistic cultural norms? Why is culture so great? I understand preserving its memory, especially when another language is being lost every 2 weeks, but I don&#39;t see what makes culture deservign of preservation.



• Economics - We support social economics that fits well in promoting equal wealth for mutual survival and a second income associating to hard work and progress. The government’s role is to insure stability in the economic and marketing process to insure fair competition between small businesses by distributing and regulating the needed supplies for merchandise. Larger businesses would be greatly restricted to serve only in the interest of the local businesses.
watered-down capitalism, perhaps a form of socialism. Don&#39;t you think more drastic changes need to occur to insure that we don&#39;t fall into the same old bullshit?


• Education - Teaching is to engage in bring interest and enlighten someone in insuring their success in understanding the criteria. Since future lies in the hands of those who educate the youth, with resourceful teachers we secure a good future for the next generation of our species. Moreover, we will encourage people to open their mind to more modern ways of teaching.
This is also vague, but I don&#39;t really disagree with it. You don&#39;t seem to be proposing much essential or drastic change, just basic stuff most people would agree with.


• Energy Policies - we believe in conserving the environment and promoting greener energies for automobiles. Therefore, we promote the use of solar, wind, water, ethanol, and other alternative green energies. In addition, we condemn the practice of nuclear alternatives due to their potential harm in a meltdown situation and dangers in the hand of a rouge state.
Eh, I&#39;m not so afraid of nuclear energy, but whatever.


• Health and Welfare - We need free public hospitals and schools as a vital part of a prosperous democracy. The government should seek to grant free health care and education to everyone regardless of his or her economical background. As for unemployment, everyone should have the right to find a job that fits his or her criteria. They government should enforce unemployed individual to seek the right to find a job that fits his or her criteria. The government should enforce unemployed individual to seek the right education as requested and the aggressive counseling needed to motivate them to work harder and more effective to contribute to society as an invaluable individual.
This spills over into economics, and I don&#39;t agree with the imposition that the individual is usually responsible for their own plight, as seems implied here.


• International Politics - we will give our full support to those who would want to follow our example, the true democratic movement, and support to those who want a government that gives its people the democratic rights as inhabitants that they deserve.
what constitutes recognition of the same ideology? I don&#39;t see many qualifiers for what this is here.


• Intoxications – Drugs should solely exercise their intended medical usage, unless they serve in the cultural bounds for which are at a tolerable level. All other uses of drugs are illegal and should require an active explanation and executive authority to cut down these unnecessary and dangerous practices. This would include alcohol, tobacco, and other such intoxications.
How is this freedom or democracy?


• Military - We support a flexible military that takes part in society as a "reserves" sort of occupation. They serve in defense and work in separate jobs for the most when they are not serving the country. The role of the army will increase, as most citizens will take a role in it to insure the stability and security of the country. The role of the Army will serve in the interest of the people rather than use to oppress the people. Therefore, the military cannot take on any action without the will of the people to support it.
Seems fine to me.


• Minorities - we believe all ethnic groups should have their administration of land and we believe in the destabilization of oppressive cultural assimilation. There should be a public works in bringing and promoting tolerance for people of difference.
This is a simplistic response to a far - too complicated issue.


• Political Corruption - we should establish a branch in the government that is full of dedicated individuals that serve in the interest of the people to remove power from corrupt people. It should be entitled in the constitution. The only role of government besides protection and security is to serve in the interest of the people to help and assist them in needed fashion that will allow them to start taking care of themselves.
What constitutes corruption? Isn&#39;t this a part of the conspiracy point, or at least fall under the same category?


• Science and Technology - We will seek to promote the idea that people need to better him or herself and that all of our progress should be dedicated towards improving our society and species. Cloning is an essential tool for the needed improvement of our medical system. Since there are conservative religious leaders and governments that forbid science as a part of disarraying the &#39;&#39;creator’s work,&#39;&#39; we will take the task up at one-hundred percent in establishing an active informative society that will insure a daily update on science and progress for that society.
Still vague and pedestrian, but not really disagreeable.


Really, this seems like a realyl bland social - democracy, unwilling to take shots at the real problems of society. If this is a new ideology, it needs a lot of renovations before I think it will get much support anywhere

[luxemburg89]

We find it disturbing and highly unneeded.

P.S. I&#39;m glad that you don&#39;t seem to be involved in writing the book - bloody hell that&#39;s terrible - &#39;highly unnecessary.&#39; Imagine if Marx wrote &#39;Workers of the world unite, you don&#39;t have nothing to lose but your chains.&#39; or if Engels famously said &#39;An ounce of action is worth a ton of tuna.&#39; You see good grammar can make all the difference...

[Red Scare]

I do not think we need get rid of these guys after all we have worse on RL, I do say that they should rethink their policy to a more socialist/communist/anarchist standpoint

[Pirate Utopian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 12:06 am
Once the Draneian Party publishes one book on its philosophy all of you will become devout Draneians.
Wouldnt it be simpler to just immediatly write idiot on my forehead?

[luxemburg89]

Originally posted by Big Manifesto+September 26, 2007 08:23 pm--> (Big Manifesto @ September 26, 2007 08:23 pm)
[email protected] 23, 2007 12:06 am
Once the Draneian Party publishes one book on its philosophy all of you will become devout Draneians.
Wouldnt it be simpler to just immediatly write idiot on my forehead? [/b]
:lol: haha&#33; I think it is essentially the same thing yes. I like the use of the word &#39;devout&#39; - tell me, do you oppose religion?

[Honggweilo]

We are talking about Mr. Nobody out on a street corner selling hotdogs and being granted to do so because of Localized Free-Economics. How does that oppress people?
Ask Deng Xiao Ping, Jiang Zemín, Gorbachev, Tito and Ceaucescu in terms of "Local Free-Economics"

And what does you view on localized fair-enterpise contribute? every socialist state had (in different proportions and different appliance) private, collective and state ownership. You wont belive what kind of stuff people are allowed to sell in streetvendors in Havana.