Jena Six

[Sickle of Justice]

I don't know much about this, but it seems to me like Antifa-style action at it's best.

Heres the story:
In the (small, mostly white) louisiana town of Jena, a new kid at their high school sat under a a tree which white students had claimed for there own, pissing off a bunch of racists. the next day a bunch of nooses were hanging from the tree, inferring a KKK like response to the kids mistake.

The school deemed the act a prank, and gave the boys responsible an in-school suspension.

Racial tensions rose and the state did nothing to punish the "pranksters", despite the fact that their act was of near terroristic nature.

about a year later a group of six black students confronted one of the perpetrators, a fight broke out, and the group beat the racist unconcious.

they've all been charged with attempted murder, but a protest movement has sprung up to have the charges dropped.


As I said, this seems like classic antifa stuff. Racists appear, threaten violence, state does nothing, so those threatened take matters into there own hands.

Bizzarely, many people I’ve talked to claim that the Jena Six were somehow racist.

Any thoughts?

[bootleg42]

Old news, we've talked about it here many times a long time ago but yes, those black students are heroes. White racist U.S. fucks treated them like shit and they, in turn, fucked them up. Well done.

Also the reactions I've been getting from the petty bourgeoisie white people in college here in the U.S. is that those blacks are somewhat racist as well. I can't believe it.

At least here in the inner city, the black students are seen as the "good guys".

[blackstone]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:51 pm
Old news, we've talked about it here many times a long time ago but yes, those black students are heroes. White racist U.S. fucks treated them like shit and they, in turn, fucked them up. Well done.

Also the reactions I've been getting from the petty bourgeoisie white people in college here in the U.S. is that those blacks are somewhat racist as well. I can't believe it.

At least here in the inner city, the black students are seen as the "good guys".
Why can't you believe it? It doesn't surprise me the least.

I support the Jena 6 fully and hope this is the tipping point for us African Americans.

[bootleg42]

I do to. The African-United Statian community really needs to get active here. They need to "show their muscle" so to speak and they need to empower themselves (which is what they're doing). This way the African-United Statian community can then eliminate the reactionary petty bourgeoisie within their own community (the Al Sharpton's and Cornell West's of the world) and advance, hopefully, to communist movements "from the bottom-up".

Also it's not THAT shocking to me that the white college petty bourgeoisie would think that the black student were also somewhat racist but for some it comes as a shock because some of those same student are part of the stupid "liberal democrats" who supported the firing of Don Imus when he made those racist remarks on the air but yet now see these heroic black students as "somewhat racist". I'm not white nor am I a part of those college students culture but unfortunally I go to school with them so I hear all this.

[blackstone]

What in the world is an African-United Statian?

[bootleg42]

Well when I refer to people from only the United States, I don't like to call them "Americans" because that is ethnocentric. Canada, Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, etc are all also part of America. So when I refer to people from the United States only, I call them United Statians.

Hence, since I'm refering to the people of African decent in the United States, I'll use the term "African-United Statian".

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 02:54 pm
Well when I refer to people from only the United States, I don't like to call them "Americans" because that is ethnocentric. Canada, Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, etc are all also part of America. So when I refer to people from the United States only, I call them United Statians.

Hence, since I'm refering to the people of African decent in the United States, I'll use the term "African-United Statian".
That's pretty ridiculous. Technically Bolivia, Honduras, Canada, etc are all in "The Americas", but It's way simpler to just called people from the United States of America "Americans". There's no need to be so politically correct on an issue like this.

[A Suvorov]

Q: What color was the boy who was attacked?
A: White

Q: What color were the Gang of Six who attacked him?
A: Black

Q: If the situation were reversed (ie, if it were a white boy who sat under the tree, and blacks had placed nooses in the tree, and a YEAR later a gang of six white boys beat down a single black kid over the incident) would the black community be as outraged and protesting in defense of the white boys?
A: NO

This whole incident is being used in so many WRONG ways by all parties involved; unfortunately the facts are that 1) the issue was already dealt with by the authorities- if the public had a beef with them they should have taken it to whoever decided the course of action THEN, not a year later, 2) regardless of what happened, it in no way gives the Gang of Six free license to beat down anyone, and 3) the Gang of Six all need to be dealt with under the RULE OF LAW, not under MOB RULES.

If it was such an issue when the noose incident took place A YEAR AGO, why wasn't the community up in arms then? It seems like they only care because the Gang of Six got caught and now they are doing everything they can to keep from taking responsibility for their actions.

If you're Jewish, and I spray paint a swastika on your driveway does that IN ANY WAY give you a legal RIGHT to assault me, or do ANYTHING to me, other than in self-defense from mortal danger? No, of course it doesn't- but you DO have the right to take me to court for redress UNDER THE LAW. Same principle.

The Gang of Six should be tried according to the law by a fair and impartial judge who cannot be swayed by cheap theatrics and political posturing.

It's got nothing to do with fascism (I doubt if the white boys involved even know what fascism IS, even if it were applicable in this case) or antifa action, or whatever the catchphrise of the day is. It's got nothing to do with politics, even. It's a very simple case of assault on the one white kid by the Gang of Six, pure and simple. Let me put it this way- if that were YOUR kid that got beat down, how would you feel if you were his parent? Would you (the parent) praise the Gang of Six for taking matters into their own hands, or would you be howling for justice in the courts? I think everyone already knows the answer to that, and no amount of ideological posturing is going to erase the simple truth of the event.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 22, 2007 02:37 am
the Gang of Six all need to be dealt with under the RULE OF LAW, not under MOB RULES.


..........................I don't know............dare I say you might be restricted very soon.

[A Suvorov]

And why would that be? For insisting on the Rule of Law instead of Mob Rule? If I'm to be silenced because of that, then I have seriously misjudged the temper of this forum- aren't we SUPPOSED to be all about justice and equality for all? Or has it degenerated into a classic case of 'some are more equal than others'?

I could care less about the skin color or racial extraction of anyone involved- regardless of any causative factors, it still boils down to a simple case of assault. But, the assault itself aside, look at the underlying motif of the attack: SIX on ONE. Is that a case of a single guy looking for random 'payback'- or was it a cool, calculated action taken by the Gang of Six, perpetrated secure in the knowledge they would have a whole community leap to their defense and thus escape personal responsibility?

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 21, 2007 07:37 pm
Q: What color was the boy who was attacked?
A: White

Q: What color were the Gang of Six who attacked him?
A: Black

Q: If the situation were reversed (ie, if it were a white boy who sat under the tree, and blacks had placed nooses in the tree, and a YEAR later a gang of six white boys beat down a single black kid over the incident) would the black community be as outraged and protesting in defense of the white boys?
A: NO
Extended answer: No, because the white community would have lynched the boys by then.

This whole incident is being used in so many WRONG ways by all parties involved; unfortunately the facts are that 1) the issue was already dealt with by the authorities- if the public had a beef with them they should have taken it to whoever decided the course of action THEN, not a year later
Unjustly and unlawfully. You agree with the sentences?

The African-American community in that town constitutes of only 15% of the population. They would not have the support to deal with it had they not received, at last, the media attention the kids deserve.

2) regardless of what happened, it in no way gives the Gang of Six free license to beat down anyone, and 3) the Gang of Six all need to be dealt with under the RULE OF LAW, not under MOB RULES.
ROFL, violence in the name of defense isn't justified? That noose represents an enormous threat, not to mention the verbal slander they receive. If it was left up to the Rule of Law, these kids would be left to die in prison, so don't give me that bullshit. The Rule of Law is not on their side, get that through your head. Action by the oppressed community is needed and gladly they have been acting accordingly.

If it was such an issue when the noose incident took place A YEAR AGO, why wasn't the community up in arms then? It seems like they only care because the Gang of Six got caught and now they are doing everything they can to keep from taking responsibility for their actions.
The mass media never reported on it during its initial stages, it had to get leaked through the internet and the likes of programs of Democracy Now!. This was obviously going to portray the town in a negative light, and tried to hide by any means. Now it's not the case, as the public has finally gotten to hear the story of the G6.

If you're Jewish, and I spray paint a swastika on your driveway does that IN ANY WAY give you a legal RIGHT to assault me, or do ANYTHING to me, other than in self-defense from mortal danger? No, of course it doesn't- but you DO have the right to take me to court for redress UNDER THE LAW. Same principle.
Again, the law is not on their side.

They didn't assault anyone, you got the story distorted yourself. How are some high school students not going to go at it should they become involved in such an inevitable conflict? How is a shoe a deadly weapon?

The Gang of Six should be tried according to the law by a fair and impartial judge who cannot be swayed by cheap theatrics and political posturing.
The Law is not going to be fair and impartial in that district.

It's got nothing to do with fascism
Racism and xenophobia have nothing to do with fascism?

(I doubt if the white boys involved even know what fascism IS, even if it were applicable in this case)
You don't need to know what fascism is to take part in it, that's exactly what racism is part of.

or antifa action, or whatever the catchphrise of the day is. It's got nothing to do with politics, even.
Idiocy at its finest.

It's a very simple case of assault on the one white kid by the Gang of Six, pure and simple.
Who provoked them?

Let me put it this way- if that were YOUR kid that got beat down, how would you feel if you were his parent?
My kid would have deserved that should she/he partake in unapologizing racism.

Would you (the parent) praise the Gang of Six for taking matters into their own hands, or would you be howling for justice in the courts?
The law is not on their side! :lol:

I think everyone already knows the answer to that, and no amount of ideological posturing is going to erase the simple truth of the event.
Especially not yours.

And why would that be? For insisting on the Rule of Law instead of Mob Rule? If I'm to be silenced because of that, then I have seriously misjudged the temper of this forum- aren't we SUPPOSED to be all about justice and equality for all? Or has it degenerated into a classic case of 'some are more equal than others'?
There is no justice and equality for all, pure Americanized propaganda. That's the very problem at hand you fool.

We don't live in a post-capitalist society.

I could care less about the skin color or racial extraction of anyone involved- regardless of any causative factors, it still boils down to a simple case of assault. But, the assault itself aside, look at the underlying motif of the attack: SIX on ONE. Is that a case of a single guy looking for random 'payback'- or was it a cool, calculated action taken by the Gang of Six, perpetrated secure in the knowledge they would have a whole community leap to their defense and thus escape personal responsibility?
You don't care about the restrictive/racist conditions they were in that gave way to their 'assault'? How absurd.

[bootleg42]

Yea, someone restrict A Suvorov. Just by reading his/her comments, it's clear that he/she needs to be restricted.

[LSD]

So to summarize: racist kid does racist shit, black kids get pissed, black kids beat up racist kid.

Sound familiar to anyone? Sound maybe kinda maybe like the racial violence you see all over the south? Or all over the country? Or all over the world???

There is absolutely nothing new in this story other than that the media's making a whole mess of it. But the people involved were reacting to the very same pressures in the very same ways as in every other racial conflict for past thirty years.

The story here isn't one of justice denied or hatred unbridled, it's one of teenage angst and a poor community.

These kids have so little to hold on to that they make up invisible rules, like special "race trees" where only "white" children can play and when "black" children go to the "white" tree, the "white" kids get get angry and they put up symbols that their parents told them make the "blacks" angry.

It's all so tragically childish, and yet so ultimately brutal. ...and meanwhile the media is so incredibly eager to fan the flames.

And in the end, that's why this will explode, not because it's unique, not because it's particularly distressing, but because it's captured the right kind of primetime tonality. The state is right, the colors are right, even the setting is right (who doesn't love a good school violence story).

The business is called entertainment.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

That's pretty ridiculous. Technically Bolivia, Honduras, Canada, etc are all in "The Americas", but It's way simpler to just called people from the United States of America "Americans". There's no need to be so politically correct on an issue like this.

Why isn't there?

Even if you just want to be factually correct, instead of politically correct (and btw, criticism of political correctness usually comes from the right), you have to recognize that "American" isn't the proper term for folks in the U.S.

Americans are all of the people from the tip of Canada to the tip of Argentina. They all live in the Americas.

[dso79]

about a year later a group of six black students confronted one of the perpetrators, a fight broke out, and the group beat the racist unconcious.

Was that kid really a racist? He was not involved in the noose-incident as far as I know, all he allegedly did was taunt one of the black kids.

[A Suvorov]

With regard to the reply from revOlt:

Re: 'Violence in the name of defense (being justified)'- hmmm...let's see...a year after the fact, the Gang of Six feels threatened by one kid- he must have been some bad-a** kid to make six guys feel threatened to the point where they felt they were in mortal danger.

Again, I return to the point of all of this- by equating 'justice' with Mob Rule you take away the underpinning of our very society- it is the LAW which we accept as the governing factor, not whatever the Mob declares to be 'right'. I have no argument that our legal system is somewhat flawed at times, but I'd much rather be tried for a crime under the law than by whatever group shouts the loudest.

I also ask, does the white kid who was beaten deserve protection and justice under the law? If not, then you openly advocate th eviolation of his personal civil rights and Mob Rule. If so, the the converse of that is naturally that the Gang of Six be held LIABLE under the law for their crime.

Re: 'How is a shoe a deadly weapon?'- it becomes a deadly weapon the minute it is applied forcefully and repeatedly to someone's head, especially when the victim is already unconcious and quite unable to defend himself, THAT'S WHEN. I can't believe you even tried that argument.

Re: 'They didn't assault anyone'- So what exactly happened to the kid at the hands of the Gang of Six? I'm sure he must have tripped and hit his face repeatedly, causing all that facial damage- and it must have been from a fair height to have caused him to have a cranial hemmorhage and bleed from his ears! I'm sure the Gang of Six was diligently trying to help him to keep him from harm.

ASSAULT is what this whole issue SHOULD be about, instead of the inevitable playing of The Race Card. I don't deny there are some racial problems in Jena- we have them all over the South- but the color of one's skin does not exempt them from equal protection- or equal treatment- under the law. If the situation were reversed, I'd be advocating for the prosecution of the then-white Gang of Six, just the same as I advocate for the prosecution of the present crime(s).

--

I won't go into any more detailed instances; I'll simply chalk up the bulk of these statements to Internet Bravado- it's easy enough to say 'if my kid were being racist he deserves to be beaten by six guys' but I'll bet if it happened for real your tune would change *real* quick.

In short, yes our legal system is flawed- yes it's got issues, especially in the South- but until it's fixed it IS the law and we are bound as citizens to obey it until it is changed or repealed. Our disagreeing with it does not give us the right to ignore the law. I don't like it, either, but that's just the way it is. Running afoul of the law is what gives our movement (in general) a bad name sometimes- if you're going to ever get it to something more favorable, CHANGE THE LAW. But don't don't think you have the right to break it until then.

[Comrade Rage]

Solidarity with the Jena Six. I didn't attend any of the marches down there, is there any kind of show of support I could do?

[dez]

In my country (brazil) we have substituted the word Americano for Estadounidense, basically over the argumentation bootleg presented us.
It's not about being politically correct, it's about not considering a single country representative of an entire continent.





you take away the underpinning of our very society-

And what is so sacred about the foundation of your society?



it is the LAW which we accept as the governing factor, not whatever the Mob declares to be 'right'

Laws are a social contract.
Theorically, whatever the "mob" thought to be right should be the law.




Re: 'How is a shoe a deadly weapon?'- it becomes a deadly weapon the minute it is applied forcefully and repeatedly to someone's head, especially when the victim is already unconcious and quite unable to defend himself, THAT'S WHEN. I can't believe you even tried that argument.

I didn't think the 6-1 proportion was fair.
They should have gotten one stronger guy and filmed it.
Moar pain, youtube fun for the rest of us
:wub:



Look, there are no "ifs" when you are talking about facts, there is "was".
Violence may not be the best way to change public opinion regarding "racial issues", i believe the way to go is education. But to get there, there has to be comotion and for there to be comotion, someone has got to do something. Draw attention.
The simple fact that the previous incident became known, this brutality is a little more acceptable.
And some terror to the racists.
:ph34r:

BTW, these guys had no connection whatsoever with any leftist movement.
Hence their disrespect to the law doesn't hurt leftist movement's images at all.



Oh, and could you consider the possibility that a lot in the law system exists to maintain you in a certain pattern of behavior, that interests to the lawmakers, and that certain pattern of behavior may not be the progressive stance to take?
And if it's not the progressive stance, will you still maintain it to "abide by the law"?

[A Suvorov]

I maintain that while, regrettably, much of our legal is flawed is it STILL our legal system. One cannot simply ignore it on their own whim and obey this law but not that one.

The Gang of Six KNEW what they were doing, they KNEW it was against the law, they KNEW they were beating this poor kid to near death- but yet they expect to be exempt from punishment for their actions? Even IF they have a *moral* leg to stand on, they have no *legal* leg to stand on.

Until the laws are changed, they are still the law- like it or not. Just because you think you should be allowed to drive at 90 mph doesn't mean you can do so just because you *want* to- why then, should you think you can get away with beating a kid half to death just because you *want* to?

The point I'm trying to make in all of this is that the issue of the Gang of Six, while having its beginnings in racial issues, has crossed into being a *criminal* issue quite apart from anything else. The braying of the mob outside the courthouse (or wherever) should have no bearing whatsoever on the facts of the case.

While I am repulsed by the actions of the guilty parties for their part in displaying the nooses, their actions in no way excuse the beating of the one kid by the Gang of Six.

[Red Heretic]

Just as a side note before I try to take on some of the racist shit I've seen in this thread, I would like to ask...

Did anyone else notice that Suvorov's reference to the "Gang of Six" and "Mob Rule" were almost directly transposed from the counter-revolutionaries and revisionists in the cultural revolution in China? This is like textbook revisionist shit poured on top a heaping pile of fucking white cracker Sean Hannity style racism that ignores the oppression of Black people and talks about reactions to racism as if they were racism themselves.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 27, 2007 03:55 am
While I am repulsed by the actions of the guilty parties for their part in displaying the nooses, their actions in no way excuse the beating of the one kid by the Gang of Six.
First of all, do you have ANY fucking clue what the full story is? Where did you get the synopsis you are using? Fucking FOX news? This is worse than the average bourgeois press as far as the amount of the story you are telling.

How about the fact that the white kids assaulted a Black youth after the noose incident, and the only punishment they recieved was probation and "they had to apologize." That's a little bit different from the 26 years in prison they changed the Black kid, Michael Bell with huh?

Well! Maybe that will teach those Blacks, the "Gang of Six" (notice this reference to Black youth as a "gang") to follow the rule of law, huh?

Your posts are so fucking racist it makes me sick. At least you're not alone! You've got the KKK behind you, standing up for the rule of law.

[Red Heretic]

I would like to post this article from Revolution that tells the full story of what is happening in Jena:

The Story of the Jena 6

by Alice Woodward
Revolution Newspaper (http://revcom.us/a/102/jena-story-en.html)

It is a late summer day in September 2006, the beginning of the school year, in the small town of Jena, Louisiana. A Black student ASKS FOR PERMISSION to sit beneath the shade tree in front of the high school. A tree known as a “WHITES-ONLY TREE.”

The principal says they can sit wherever they want, so they do.

The next morning when students come to school, three NOOSES are hanging from the tree.

Tina Jones, the mother of Bryant Purvis, one of the Jena 6, told Revolution:

“To Black people that is offensive because you know over the years Black people were hung in trees. So I mean we felt like the white people were saying, ‘Well if you sit under this tree, we’re going to hang you.’ That’s how us, as Black people felt, even though the white people said it was a prank. How could it be a prank when something like that was done to Black people over the years?”

After dozens of Black students courageously stand under the tree in a defiant act of protest, the principal and superintendent bring in District Attorney Reed Walters and local police officers to an all-school assembly. The DA threatens Black students, telling them that if they do anything else about the nooses: “I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen.” Police officers are stationed in the halls of the school that week.

Meanwhile, no real punishment for the students who HUNG THE NOOSES. The school board steps in to prevent them from getting expelled and they only get a three-day suspension.

On November 30, 2006, the main school building is mysteriously burned to the ground. That weekend when Robert Bailey, a 17-year-old Black student, tries to attend a school dance, he is punched in the face, knocked on the ground and attacked by a group of white youth. Only one of the white students is arrested—and then only given probation and asked to apologize.

The night after that, a white youth pulls a gun on a group of Black youth. A Black youth wrestles the gun away to prevent the white youth from using it. And for this he is arrested and charged with theft.

The following Monday a fight breaks out at school. A white student, Justin Barker, goes to the hospital for a few hours and then attends a school ring ceremony that night.

The next day, December 4, six Black students—Robert Bailey Junior, Theo Shaw, Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Mychal Bell, and an unidentified minor—are arrested and charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy to commit attempted second degree murder. Outrageously high bail is set for each of them, ranging from $70,000-$138,000, and most of them end up in jail for months. Mychal Bell is still in jail.

Like a scene from the Jim Crow South, Mychal Bell is tried on June 25-28 by an all-white jury, in a courtroom run by a white judge. The prosecutor calls 16 witnesses, mostly white students. The court-appointed defense attorney calls NO WITNESSES ON BELL’S BEHALF. The DA argues that the tennis shoes on Bell’s feet were a “dangerous weapon.” Mychal Bell is convicted of two felonies: aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated second-degree battery.

On July 26, the U.S. Department of Justice hosts a “community forum” in Jena, run by Lewis Chapman, assistant special agent in charge of the New Orleans FBI office and U.S. Attorney Donald Washington from the U.S. Justice Department. Discussing how all this has been handled by the authorities, Washington states that “all of their procedures were ‘regular’ and not ‘irregular.’” In effect, he says six Black youth should go to prison for standing up to racism, that white supremacy is the REGULAR workings of this system.

AT EVERY TURN, city and federal officials, the police and courts have stepped in to officially enforce white supremacy and insure the prosecution and persecution of these Black youth.

The Struggle to Free the Jena 6

On July 31, 300 people come from all over the country to rally in support of the Jena 6 when Mychal Bell is scheduled to be sentenced. The weekend before, the school administration removes the “whites-only” tree.

In August, a new legal team from Monroe, Louisiana, steps forward to represent Mychal Bell and handle his appeal, pro bono. Bell’s sentencing is postponed and the team files a number of motions—that Bell did not receive a fair trial, that his constitutional rights were violated, that the convictions should be thrown out, and that a new trial be held or the charges dropped.

At an August 24 court hearing, family members and others step forward to testify that they will ensure Bell will be in the care of the community if he is released on bail. But the judge summarily dismisses this and denies bond. He declares Bell a “danger” to the community, citing a so-called “criminal record” of minor offenses. And then in a blatant racist insult, he compares the Black community to a “fence erected around the cattle” and criticizes them for not erecting this fence around Mychal Bell earlier.

Students at Jena High continue to resist. On August 28, eight or nine students go to school wearing t-shirts that read, “Free the Jena 6.” Again the hammer comes down: The principal gets on the loudspeakers and announces that the t-shirts cannot be worn because they “offend” some people. The t-shirts are officially banned.

*****

All that set the stage for this month. On September 4, Mychal Bell's lawyers presented arguments before the 28th Judicial Court showing numerous violations of constitutional rights during Bell's original trial. Judge J.P. Mauffray, Jr. denied every appeal by Bell's lawyers except for one. He did however throw out the conspiracy conviction, on the grounds that Mychal Bell should not have been prosecuted as an adult on that charge. But he did NOT overturn Bell's conviction, as an adult, on second-degree battery charges. At that point, Bell still faced the possibility of 15 years in prison.

Then, on September 14, in response to an emergency appeal by Bell's lawyers and in the face of a mushrooming nationwide movement to free the Jena 6, Louisiana's Third Circuit Court of Appeals threw out Mychal Bell's conviction of second-degree battery, on the grounds that he should not have been tried as an adult on this charge either. This marked an important victory, but it is still very partial and initial. As we go to press, the D.A. has vowed to appeal to higher courts to re-instate the adult charges, Bell remains in jail, and the rest of the 6 still face very serious charges. And even this initial victory only came about due to the courageous stand of people in Jena and the growing nationwide political movement to free the Jena 6. The struggle to completely free the Jena 6 and force the system to drop ALL charges is far from over and must continue to grow, by leaps and bounds.

[A Suvorov]

Originally posted by Red Heretic+September 27, 2007 06:26 am--> (Red Heretic @ September 27, 2007 06:26 am)
A [email protected] 27, 2007 03:55 am
While I am repulsed by the actions of the guilty parties for their part in displaying the nooses, their actions in no way excuse the beating of the one kid by the Gang of Six.
First of all, do you have ANY fucking clue what the full story is? Where did you get the synopsis you are using? Fucking FOX news? This is worse than the average bourgeois press as far as the amount of the story you are telling.

How about the fact that the white kids assaulted a Black youth after the noose incident, and the only punishment they recieved was probation and "they had to apologize." That's a little bit different from the 26 years in prison they changed the Black kid, Michael Bell with huh?

Well! Maybe that will teach those Blacks, the "Gang of Six" (notice this reference to Black youth as a "gang") to follow the rule of law, huh?

Your posts are so fucking racist it makes me sick. At least you're not alone! You've got the KKK behind you, standing up for the rule of law.[/b]
Regarding the '26 years' that Bell was potentially on the hook for: maybe, just MAYBE it might have something to do with the other FOUR incidents he has been charged with over the recent years, all of them associated with aggravated violence?

I'm just going to chalk this whole Gang of Six incident to the 'OJ Factor'- they might not go to prison this time, maybe not the next time- but you mark my words, sooner or later one or more of them is going to screw up (probably repeatedly) and WILL eventually have to walk the walk in the Big House.

Think about it- you get bitten by a dog enough times and sooner or later you're going to have to do something about it. It doesn't matter whether it's a white dog or a black dog, or what have you; violent is violent, period.

And again, what happens when you take out the Race Card in this whole event? You are left with exactly what need to be focussed on- the Gang of Six versus Lone White Kid. Think about it- six on one. That alone indicates premeditation of some degree, or perhaps even a full-blown conspiracy to 'get even with someone'.

I do wonder, though, if the Black Community (as a whole) is trying to frame this whole 'noose incident' under the auspices of the Hate Crime laws- if so, they are sealing the fates of the Gang of Six, for what else COULD their attack be considered as if not a hate crime? I wonder if that's what is waiting in the wings, or if the whole incident will be a wash if the Six involved are threatened with being charged under those Hate Crime laws- which carry stiffer penalties than run-of-the-mill charges. Remember, Hate Crimes work both ways.

Despite what you may think, I am not basing any of this argument on racial prejudice AT ALL. If anything, I'm simply trying to illustrate that the issue at hand is, in fact, two SEPARATE issues- one being, obviously, the criminal actions taken by both whites and blacks during the time span of the collective actions; the other being the exacerbation of racial tension by grandstanding agitators trying introduce the Race Card as the overriding factor. Certainly, as I have agreed with in previous posts, Jena has had racial problems in the past, but the posturing of 'outsiders' is only making things worse.

In other words, this entire media circus falls under the heading of Godwin's law of internet discussions: if allowed to continue to excess, any online discussion will result in one side or the other declaring the other to be 'worse than Hitler'- at which point that side has declared surender as they can produce nothing more than that to argue with.

It is the same for this issue: it's already to the point where the Race Card is being played unnecessarily; by doing so, the Black community has declared itself impotent by virtue of not having anything worthwhile to fight with. It is a sad thing, too, because they have so many more issues to be concerned with that would benefit the greater good than to expend all of it's emotional capital on what may very well be a pointless defense of these violent youths. (I repeat, sooner or later one or more of the Six will screw up and it will be Game Over as they will then be charged adults and finally held accountable for their actions. Mark your calendars.)

(Oh, and by the way, advocating for 'The Law' is in no way a monopoly of the KKK- I might remind you that a great portion of the KKK are very likely involved in illegal activities themselves! And, as a parting thought- since you do not advocate for the law, I suppose it would be okay for someone- anyone- to perpetrate crimes of the most heinous sort against you or your family? Since you don't believe in following the law, certainly you wouldn't report it, but instead go out for revenge and/or satisfaction on your own? And suppose you DID exact personal revenge- what then? Do both families call it even and you go out for a beer with the original criminal's family, calling it 'even'? I think not. Remember, without the law we are left with our only legal system of 'an eye for an eye'- under which soon the entire world would be blind.)

[Iron]

And again, what happens when you take out the Race Card in this whole event? You are left with exactly what need to be focussed on- the Gang of Six versus Lone White Kid. Think about it- six on one. That alone indicates premeditation of some degree, or perhaps even a full-blown conspiracy to 'get even with someone'.

YOUR not taking the race card out six beat up ONE "WHITE" sounds like race is being called apon.


I do wonder, though, if the Black Community (as a whole) is trying to frame this whole 'noose incident' under the auspices of the Hate Crime laws- if so, they are sealing the fates of the Gang of Six, for what else COULD their attack be considered as if not a hate crime? I wonder if that's what is waiting in the wings, or if the whole incident will be a wash if the Six involved are threatened with being charged under those Hate Crime laws- which carry stiffer penalties than run-of-the-mill charges. Remember, Hate Crimes work both ways.

please explain to me how beating up some racists is a hate crime. and the 'noose incident' THEY WERE THREATING TO LYNC THE BLACK KIDS. your marginalizing the actions of the white supremacist.


Despite what you may think, I am not basing any of this argument on racial prejudice AT ALL. If anything, I'm simply trying to illustrate that the issue at hand is, in fact, two SEPARATE issues- one being, obviously, the criminal actions taken by both whites and blacks during the time span of the collective actions; the other being the exacerbation of racial tension by grandstanding agitators trying introduce the Race Card as the overriding factor. Certainly, as I have agreed with in previous posts, Jena has had racial problems in the past, but the posturing of 'outsiders' is only making things worse.

Then what the hell are you arguing, THERE NOT TWO SEPARATE ISSUES. don't you think its funny that fights happen all the time between WHITE students and they hardly get in to trouble... but when a black beats up a white they get 26 years? That should like the RACISM to me.


It is the same for this issue: it's already to the point where the Race Card is being played unnecessarily; by doing so, the Black community has declared itself impotent by virtue of not having anything worthwhile to fight with. It is a sad thing, too, because they have so many more issues to be concerned with that would benefit the greater good than to expend all of it's emotional capital on what may very well be a pointless defense of these violent youths. (I repeat, sooner or later one or more of the Six will screw up and it will be Game Over as they will then be charged adults and finally held accountable for their actions. Mark your calendars.)

unnecessarily race card...? they FUCKING THREATEN TO LYNC THEM. violent youths... your such a racist the poor white kid geting beat up by the evil gang of black people. and why will they screw up later? tell me! why?


(Oh, and by the way, advocating for 'The Law' is in no way a monopoly of the KKK- I might remind you that a great portion of the KKK are very likely involved in illegal activities themselves! And, as a parting thought- since you do not advocate for the law, I suppose it would be okay for someone- anyone- to perpetrate crimes of the most heinous sort against you or your family? Since you don't believe in following the law, certainly you wouldn't report it, but instead go out for revenge and/or satisfaction on your own? And suppose you DID exact personal revenge- what then? Do both families call it even and you go out for a beer with the original criminal's family, calling it 'even'? I think not. Remember, without the law we are left with our only legal system of 'an eye for an eye'- under which soon the entire world would be blind.)

Your advocation of the 'law' is based on racist arguements, hints the referance to the KKK. and yes the KKK breaks the laws... but tell me if a black mans kills a white man does he really get the same punishment as if it were vice versa. NO! so your advocation of 'the law' is pointless and just shows your own racist views. and yes if anyone in my family did something like this i would gladly beat them up myself. not for revenge but for anti-racist action. and who cares about their legal system anyways it was set up by a bunch of rich white men.

hopefully you will get restrict because your clearly not a communist or even a leftist, but instead a liberal asshole with racists tendencies

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 28, 2007 02:00 am
Regarding the '26 years' that Bell was potentially on the hook for: maybe, just MAYBE it might have something to do with the other FOUR incidents he has been charged with over the recent years, all of them associated with aggravated violence?

I'm just going to chalk this whole Gang of Six incident to the 'OJ Factor'- they might not go to prison this time, maybe not the next time- but you mark my words, sooner or later one or more of them is going to screw up (probably repeatedly) and WILL eventually have to walk the walk in the Big House.



Oh, well if a boy in high school has been in other fights, that makes it perfectly fine to virtually lynch him! How about we throw every 16 year old that has been in 4 or more fights into prison for 26 years?

And furthermore, why would a Black youth who faces constant racism and the threat of being lynched get into fights anyway? I can't imagine.



Think about it- you get bitten by a dog enough times and sooner or later you're going to have to do something about it.

Yeah, let's deal with that dog/nigger.


And again, what happens when you take out the Race Card in this whole event?

What happens when you take the "Race Card" out of the lynching of Emmett Till, (a 14 year old Black boy who whistled at a white girl and was chopped into pieces and thrown in a river)?

What happens when you take the "Sex Card" out of the millions of women who will be raped this year?

What happens when you take the essence of something out of anything?

You're left with a fucking lie!

[ComradeR]

No offense A Suvorov but you're faith in the bourgeois state is disgusting. While some laws are beneficial to the people there are (many) that are not, they're only purpose is to defend bourgeois interests and property rights, and because of this it is a joke to say that the law gives equal protection or equal treatment.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 28, 2007 02:00 am
(Oh, and by the way, advocating for 'The Law' is in no way a monopoly of the KKK- I might remind you that a great portion of the KKK are very likely involved in illegal activities themselves!
Were you born this stupid or was it the result of multiple head wounds? You're using the same fucking rhetoric as the Klan in your defence of this travesty, they are also claiming to be standing up for the "rule of law" and, of course, "teh inosent wite viktim!!!!ONE!!!!11".


And, as a parting thought- since you do not advocate for the law, I suppose it would be okay for someone- anyone- to perpetrate crimes of the most heinous sort against you or your family?

What the fuck is this strawman? Just because we don't believe that state racism should be enshrined in law doesn't mean I'm about to let you rape my family or whatever, you stupid fuck.


Since you don't believe in following the law, certainly you wouldn't report it, but instead go out for revenge and/or satisfaction on your own? And suppose you DID exact personal revenge- what then? Do both families call it even and you go out for a beer with the original criminal's family, calling it 'even'? I think not. Remember, without the law we are left with our only legal system of 'an eye for an eye'- under which soon the entire world would be blind.)

The thing is that we're fine, to an extent, with the idea of proscribed behaviours and their enforcement (even anarchists like myself) but the idea of a state organ with a monopoly on coercive force and a large section of racist enforcers does make us uncomfortable.

Paraphrasing Gandhi is not, and never will be, a substitute for a decent argument.

[Dimentio]

Justin Barker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#The_.22white_tree.22_incident)

It does'nt seem to exist any information on whether or not he hung up those gallows, or if any on the perpetrators where at school.

Regardless, it cannot go unpunished with a 6-to-1 directly unprovoked assault, almost resulting in a person's death. Even though I think 26 years in prison is extremely harsh.

[blackstone]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 02:29 pm
Justin Barker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#The_.22white_tree.22_incident)

It does'nt seem to exist any information on whether or not he hung up those gallows, or if any on the perpetrators where at school.

Regardless, it cannot go unpunished with a 6-to-1 directly unprovoked assault, almost resulting in a person's death. Even though I think 26 years in prison is extremely harsh.
Almost resulting in his death?I know of people who've been beaten near death or beaten up horribly, and usually they their condition makes them only to lay in a hospital bed and unable to attend school functions later in the day like Mr. Barker.

So please leave out the bourgeoisie media nonsense out of this critical discussion.

[meerkat]

The Jena 6 guy was just released on bail.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by blackstone+September 28, 2007 03:01 pm--> (blackstone @ September 28, 2007 03:01 pm)
[email protected] 28, 2007 02:29 pm
Justin Barker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#The_.22white_tree.22_incident)

It does'nt seem to exist any information on whether or not he hung up those gallows, or if any on the perpetrators where at school.

Regardless, it cannot go unpunished with a 6-to-1 directly unprovoked assault, almost resulting in a person's death. Even though I think 26 years in prison is extremely harsh.
Almost resulting in his death?I know of people who've been beaten near death or beaten up horribly, and usually they their condition makes them only to lay in a hospital bed and unable to attend school functions later in the day like Mr. Barker.

So please leave out the bourgeoisie media nonsense out of this critical discussion. [/b]
He was badly beaten, and have got some injuries.

Personally, I think the punishments discussed are too hard, but that maybe 1,5 year with parole (making it 9 months) is justifiable.

I mean, no one has denied the allegations.

[A Suvorov]

One thing, at least, has become crystal clear over the course of this thread: I, for one, would dread having the majority of you in power as you aren't the slightest bit interested in the enforcement of laws and would rather degenerate to mob rule.

For society- ANY society- to function there MUST be some form of law (or 'tribal custom' which takes the form of law) by which that society conducts it's day-to-day business in a civil manner. Without this, it simply becomes a modern-day 'Mad Max' scenario in which the weak are preyed upon at will by the strong with the victims having no recourse or hope for justice.

On a personal note, I find it rather humorous that a number of respondents brought such an empty arsenal of debate skills that they quickly degerated into being able to offer only name-calling and personal attacks in a pathetic attempt to bait me. I should probably advise you that I am quite content to accept your comments of that nature as I am secure in the knowledge that they are simply more evidence of the phenomenon of 'Internet Bravado' so readily adopted by those who truly have no capacity for reality-based thought or discussion.

To those of you who responded with honest, thoughtful opinions (as opposed to mere ideological posturing) I offer my thanks and kudos for your participation in this thread.

With this post, my own participation in this thread is ended; I am satisfied that my position is sound and will prevail in the end.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 28, 2007 11:56 pm
One thing, at least, has become crystal clear over the course of this thread: I, for one, would dread having the majority of you in power as you aren't the slightest bit interested in the enforcement of laws and would rather degenerate to mob rule.
Well thank fuck none of us want to be "in power". I don't know if you've failed to grasp the idea of "stateless classless society" or if you're being wilfully ignorant but I'd like to ask you cease posting until you work out how to be less of a shoulder biting shitwit.



For society- ANY society- to function there MUST be some form of law (or 'tribal custom' which takes the form of law)

And thus it follows that we should use the law as an excuse our obvious racism?


by which that society conducts it's day-to-day business in a civil manner. Without this, it simply becomes a modern-day 'Mad Max' scenario in which the weak are preyed upon at will by the strong with the victims having no recourse or hope for justice.

:lol: Yes, as if the proponents of stateless society haven't heard that one since day fucking one. I'm sure the learning forum is full of people who, unlike you, had the intellectual curiosity to wonder how we propose running a society before criticising how we'd run it based on some ill thought out straw man.


On a personal note, I find it rather humorous that a number of respondents brought such an empty arsenal of debate skills that they quickly degerated into being able to offer only name-calling and personal attacks in a pathetic attempt to bait me.

Typical of your kind, you're insulted so you assume that everything that surrounded the insult is so much empty guff and therefore feel free to ignore it. People like that seem to be the exact opposite of internet tough guys - they come on line and suddenly develop a much thinner skin than they have in real life.


I should probably advise you that I am quite content to accept your comments of that nature as I am secure in the knowledge that they are simply more evidence of the phenomenon of 'Internet Bravado' so readily adopted by those who truly have no capacity for reality-based thought or discussion.

What an interesting and original thought, the fact you can't take an insult online and immediately attempt to rationalise into your own pathetic superiority-complex paradigm is something that no one has ever done.


To those of you who responded with honest, thoughtful opinions (as opposed to mere ideological posturing) I offer my thanks and kudos for your participation in this thread.

"Honest and thoughtful opinions" here obviously being anything that agreed with your world-view and analysis because obviously no one who exposed your support for a racist ruling was capable of anything beyond ideological posturing. Thankfully those that think you're a racist twat that's been suckered into an incredibly warped sense of bourgeois justice probably don't want your kudos.


With this post, my own participation in this thread is ended; I am satisfied that my position is sound and will prevail in the end.

Sound or not, your position looks set to prevail - the white judge, white jury and white legislators have pretty much seen to that.

[A Suvorov]

Apart from the original intent of this thread, I do have a few comments regarding Jazzrat's previous post, and no- this is neither an attack nor an apology- it's simply commentary and inquiry. It is quite possible the bulk of this post should be moved elsewhere, and I invite the moderator(s) to do so if it is deemed appropriate.

Regarding the entire 'Jena Incident' I never implied or flatly stated any racist attitude- quite the opposite, I am in sympathy with the blacks who were wronged in the first place, and wish they had enjoyed the benefits of just decision-making by those in power. HOWEVER, even though THEY didn't get a fair shake, two wrongs do NOT make a right and in no way did the kid deserve the beating he recieved. If you use 'racial tension' as an excuse, I daresay those black kids are in for it, because then it naturally follows that their attack will be prosecuted under existing 'hate laws'- Jackson and Sharpton can demagogue all they want about the 'plight of the poor, downtrodden blacks' but when the rubber hits the road all they are doing is playing right into the hands of those very racist judges and lawyers you speak of by handing them a 'hate crime' issue. Is is right that said legal actions may be conducted by a racially-biased court system? Of course not! BUT how do we ensure there IS no racially-biased court system? By changing the playing field altogether- but in order to do so, *we* (the Left) are going to have to gain a majority in the power grid of soceity and government. Which leads me to...

Now, as for my not understanding the 'stateless, classless society' you could not be more incorrect; I do indeed fully grasp that concept- but while doing so, I know that the current program the Left is pursuing isn't quite working. Oh, sure, Hillary Clinton may usher in a near-decade of socialist-style retooling of government and economy, but we're not going to see Red October for a long time. The question I have is- and this is an honest inquiry, not an attempt to stir things up- what IS the current plan of action to bring about this 'stateless classless society' that will be the worker's paradise? As for the societal aspects of the 'SCS', do we do away with racism by legislating it out of existence, or do we do eliminate it through the perpetuation of violence, or do we re-educate everyone involved? Or is there a fourth way not mentioned? Once this racism bugaboo is removed, will that *really* make things better as far as eliminating social classes? Or is there something else to be done. In short, in the words of Comrade Lenin, "WHAT IS TO BE DONE?"

It is obvious there will be no revolution in the streets any time in the near future- probably not in my lifetime, the way things are going- so in order to effect change, what is left available to us? The obvious answer is to effect change from WITHIN the system while preparing for the eventual replacement of the broken system. How to do this? Perhaps we could take a lesson from the early National Socialists and Communists- now bear with me- and create, in effect, a 'shadow government' that mirrors existing essential organs and is simply waiting for the appropriate person/party to be elected into power. Granted, it's not a perfect solution, but it does at least get the ball rolling and when/if *our side* gets any sort of power we're ready to roll instead of throwing something together at the last minute. At the same time this 'shadow government' is being created, we (the Left in general) will have to work hard to get *our* people elected within the system so they can begin the slow process of creating condition more favorable for *our* movement.

In short, unless we really come together and work for real change- yes, even in such a broken system as we have at present- we're never going to get anywhere. We can wave banners, we can stage protests- but until we gain real legal standing and usable power and credibility we're not going anywhere.

In closing, I accept the calling-out on my own 'name-calling'- in the interest of bringing everyone together, I should not have perpetuated that particular cycle.

[RedHal]

Suvorov a future David Horowitz/Max Eastman, these type of "leftists" are prime candidates for the right. This site is full of 'em. :blush:

[Ultra-Violence]

I support the Jena 6 fully and hope this is the tipping point for us African Americans

^^^^^
I WANNA PUT EMPHASIS ON THIS!


Its also very Important to All Colored People of ameriKKKa!

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by A Suvorov+October 02, 2007 12:41 am--> (A Suvorov @ October 02, 2007 12:41 am) Apart from the original intent of this thread, I do have a few comments regarding Jazzrat's previous post, and no- this is neither an attack nor an apology- it's simply commentary and inquiry. It is quite possible the bulk of this post should be moved elsewhere, and I invite the moderator(s) to do so if it is deemed appropriate. [/b]
I hate to point this out but you said, and I quote:


You
With this post, my own participation in this thread is ended

Now were you using a non-standard definition of "ended" that means "hasn't ended yet" or are you just a lying cumsmear, choose one.


Regarding the entire 'Jena Incident' I never implied or flatly stated any racist attitude- quite the opposite, I am in sympathy with the blacks who were wronged in the first place, and wish they had enjoyed the benefits of just decision-making by those in power. HOWEVER, even though THEY didn't get a fair shake, two wrongs do NOT make a right and in no way did the kid deserve the beating he recieved.

I disagree, the kids were perfectly justified in doing what they did - when a peaceful method is getting you nowhere then violence is the obvious next step.


If you use 'racial tension' as an excuse, I daresay those black kids are in for it, because then it naturally follows that their attack will be prosecuted under existing 'hate laws'- Jackson and Sharpton can demagogue all they want about the 'plight of the poor, downtrodden blacks'

Do you have any idea how stupid and racist complaining about, to paraphrase, "the uppity blacks"?


but when the rubber hits the road all they are doing is playing right into the hands of those very racist judges and lawyers you speak of by handing them a 'hate crime' issue.

As far as I'm aware the kids aren't being prosecuted on the basis of race, for fairly obvious reasons.


Is is right that said legal actions may be conducted by a racially-biased court system? Of course not! BUT how do we ensure there IS no racially-biased court system? By changing the playing field altogether- but in order to do so, *we* (the Left) are going to have to gain a majority in the power grid of soceity and government. Which leads me to...

When we're in a majority there will be a revolution, our 'power' in the current legal system won't ever matter. After all you must be aware that towards the end capitalism will be doing everything to defend itself - fascist dictatorships, anti-communist legislature and anything else to keep the bourgeoisie in power.


Now, as for my not understanding the 'stateless, classless society' you could not be more incorrect; I do indeed fully grasp that concept- but while doing so, I know that the current program the Left is pursuing isn't quite working.

Cuba, Chiapas and Oaxaca all beg to differ, I daresay.


Oh, sure, Hillary Clinton may usher in a near-decade of socialist-style retooling of government and economy,

Uh, what the fuck are you talking about? You're being ironic right, please tell me that's irony for the sake of my sanity.


but we're not going to see Red October for a long time.

No one's saying the revolution will be next week.


The question I have is- and this is an honest inquiry, not an attempt to stir things up- what IS the current plan of action to bring about this 'stateless classless society' that will be the worker's paradise?

The plan differs depending on who you ask. Most Leninists will tell you the plan is to have a small but supremely class-conscious "vanguard" which will lead the workers into a glorious revolution after which, in theory, there will be a short "transitional period" in which the old classes are wiped out via a dictatorship of the proletariat and once this has happened the state will wither away to nothingness. Most Anarchists on the other hand will tell you that the revolution will only occur through the actions of an almost entirely conscious working class and that the "revolution" itself will be used to prepare people mentally and culturally for a stateless and classless society which will be set up immediately after the revolution.


As for the societal aspects of the 'SCS', do we do away with racism by legislating it out of existence, or do we do eliminate it through the perpetuation of violence, or do we re-educate everyone involved? Or is there a fourth way not mentioned?

Fourth way. It's quite easy really, a conscious working class does not hold racist views and if, by chance, a racist crime comes up it will be treated like any other crime - the lack of institutional racism will mean that no one group of people need any special protection from other racially motivated crimes. Although I'd imagine that anyone who professed racist beliefs would be ostracised from society.


Once this racism bugaboo is removed, will that *really* make things better as far as eliminating social classes?

You've got your question back to front. It's not that a lack of racism will help eliminate social class but that eliminating social class will help destroy racism.


Or is there something else to be done. In short, in the words of Comrade Lenin, "WHAT IS TO BE DONE?"

The first thing we need to do is incinerate Lenin's corpse, it's fucking grim and I'm frightened that one day the kind of person that talks about "comrade Lenin" will steal it and either have sex with it or start talking to it. In all seriousness though what is to be done in the here and now is a building of class consciousness.


It is obvious there will be no revolution in the streets any time in the near future- probably not in my lifetime, the way things are going-

Correct.


so in order to effect change, what is left available to us? The obvious answer is to effect change from WITHIN the system while preparing for the eventual replacement of the broken system. How to do this? Perhaps we could take a lesson from the early National Socialists and Communists- now bear with me- and create, in effect, a 'shadow government' that mirrors existing essential organs and is simply waiting for the appropriate person/party to be elected into power. Granted, it's not a perfect solution, but it does at least get the ball rolling and when/if *our side* gets any sort of power we're ready to roll instead of throwing something together at the last minute. At the same time this 'shadow government' is being created, we (the Left in general) will have to work hard to get *our* people elected within the system so they can begin the slow process of creating condition more favorable for *our* movement.

Criticising that idea would take an entirely new thread, I recommend you open one in politics or learning and expand upon it.


In short, unless we really come together and work for real change- yes, even in such a broken system as we have at present- we're never going to get anywhere. We can wave banners, we can stage protests- but until we gain real legal standing and usable power and credibility we're not going anywhere.

"Waving banners and staging protests" may not seem effective to you but I doubt you were radicalised by a protest (nor was I but I know people who were) - it is important that we radicalise the proletariat, far more important I would say than any kind of parliamentary involvement - eventually, and it is a sad thing to say, there will be a revolution and that will necessitate violence and the complete destruction of this system.


In closing, I accept the calling-out on my own 'name-calling'- in the interest of bringing everyone together, I should not have perpetuated that particular cycle.

I thought it was us that started the name calling, no matter.

[blackstone]

Originally posted by Serpent+September 28, 2007 11:50 pm--> (Serpent @ September 28, 2007 11:50 pm)
Originally posted by blackstone+September 28, 2007 03:01 pm--> (blackstone @ September 28, 2007 03:01 pm)
[email protected] 28, 2007 02:29 pm
Justin Barker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#The_.22white_tree.22_incident)

It does'nt seem to exist any information on whether or not he hung up those gallows, or if any on the perpetrators where at school.

Regardless, it cannot go unpunished with a 6-to-1 directly unprovoked assault, almost resulting in a person's death. Even though I think 26 years in prison is extremely harsh.
Almost resulting in his death?I know of people who've been beaten near death or beaten up horribly, and usually they their condition makes them only to lay in a hospital bed and unable to attend school functions later in the day like Mr. Barker.

So please leave out the bourgeoisie media nonsense out of this critical discussion. [/b]
He was badly beaten, and have got some injuries.

Personally, I think the punishments discussed are too hard, but that maybe 1,5 year with parole (making it 9 months) is justifiable.

I mean, no one has denied the allegations. [/b]
Your using subjective words, we want facts!

What is badly beaten?

How many times have you seen a fight, and the loser is described as having been, "beaten up" or "whipped", even though they don't necessarily look the part?

How many times have you seen a fight, where the winner looks more fucked up than the loser? Yet, its the loser who is described as being beat up.

Have you been in a fight?When you get hit, sometimes you bruise, sometimes, you swell and get lumps, and well, sometimes you even bleed. Those things can happen with you not being near death.

When you get beaten up badly, your body needs to heal, especially if your "beaten near death". Healing involves resting and not going to events later on the day of the fight.


And yes, people have denied the allegations. There's conflicting reports on whether or not Bell was involved, or whether he was the one doing the heavy damage. That's why i always tell people read more into the case. Stop with the bourgeois media and stop believing ambulance chasing lawyers.


Victim of fender bender

My neck, my back. I can't move, i can't breathe. Call my lawyer.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Q: If the situation were reversed (ie, if it were a white boy who sat under the tree, and blacks had placed nooses in the tree, and a YEAR later a gang of six white boys beat down a single black kid over the incident) would the black community be as outraged and protesting in defense of the white boys?
A: NO

such a situation doesn't happen, it never will. Why? Because white people don't have a deep rooted history of oppression from the system with traditions and all. Black people are a oppressed nationality, they face racism, super-exploitation, and oppression at every corner.

The fact is that, this type of shit doesn't happen to white people so there is no "if the situation were reversed"


This whole incident is being used in so many WRONG ways by all parties involved; unfortunately the facts are that 1) the issue was already dealt with by the authorities- if the public had a beef with them they should have taken it to whoever decided the course of action

what? the fucking state? Yeah we're doing that. The reason why people are finding out about this is because it was like a regular small Southern town with a population of 2000 people, the story was essentially suppressed by the fact that its considered so normal to the system.


THEN, not a year later, 2) regardless of what happened, it in no way gives the Gang of Six free license to beat down anyone, and 3) the Gang of Six all need to be dealt with under the RULE OF LAW, not under MOB RULES.


it wasn't a year later. It was a response to a racist kid spewing racism. The response was a response he deserved, the Jena 6 are heroes for that. The fact though is that this kid went to the school dance later that night, yet now these youth are charged with up to 22 years in prison. Meanwhile having a sawed off shotgun to the face, having nooses hung to trees, and being beat up much more severly is perfectly normal if you're black and you're attackers are white and under these type of tensions in the state's eyes.

And what kind of Communist are you that you think that the "Rule of Law" of the United States, a law code founded on slavery, racism, and super-exploitation is to be respected like that. This isn't mob rules though, the fact of the matter is that the Jena 6 are guilty of nothing under the laws of the US. The "murder weapon" is a fucking tennis shoe in this case.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Serpent+September 28, 2007 11:50 pm--> (Serpent @ September 28, 2007 11:50 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 03:01 pm

[email protected] 28, 2007 02:29 pm
Justin Barker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#The_.22white_tree.22_incident)

It does'nt seem to exist any information on whether or not he hung up those gallows, or if any on the perpetrators where at school.

Regardless, it cannot go unpunished with a 6-to-1 directly unprovoked assault, almost resulting in a person's death. Even though I think 26 years in prison is extremely harsh.
Almost resulting in his death?I know of people who've been beaten near death or beaten up horribly, and usually they their condition makes them only to lay in a hospital bed and unable to attend school functions later in the day like Mr. Barker.

So please leave out the bourgeoisie media nonsense out of this critical discussion.
He was badly beaten, and have got some injuries.

Personally, I think the punishments discussed are too hard, but that maybe 1,5 year with parole (making it 9 months) is justifiable.

I mean, no one has denied the allegations. [/b]
He wasn't "nearly beaten to death" he went to the school dance that night.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by A Suvorov+September 27, 2007 08:00 pm--> (A Suvorov @ September 27, 2007 08:00 pm)Rule of law, rule of law, rule of law[/b]

H Rap Brown
OK...you asked for it, brothers. OK, we going to talk about law and order versus justice in America, then. You see, Lyndon Johnson can always sit up and talk about...he can always raise an argument about law and order, because he never talks about justice. But black people fall for that same argument, and they go around talking about law breakers. We did not make the laws in this country. We are neither morally nor legally confined to those laws. Those laws that keep them up, keep us down. We got to begin to understand that. [applause] See, justice is a joke in this country, and it stinks of its hypocricy.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal+October 03, 2007 02:51 pm--> (black coffee black metal @ October 03, 2007 02:51 pm)
Originally posted by A [email protected] 27, 2007 08:00 pm
Rule of law, rule of law, rule of law

H Rap Brown
OK...you asked for it, brothers. OK, we going to talk about law and order versus justice in America, then. You see, Lyndon Johnson can always sit up and talk about...he can always raise an argument about law and order, because he never talks about justice. But black people fall for that same argument, and they go around talking about law breakers. We did not make the laws in this country. We are neither morally nor legally confined to those laws. Those laws that keep them up, keep us down. We got to begin to understand that. [applause] See, justice is a joke in this country, and it stinks of its hypocricy. [/b]
Ouch!

That's what it comes down to. The laws were created by the oppressors to legitamize their rule over the oppressed. It's not about justice, it is about class dictatorship.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 02, 2007 12:41 am
we could take a lesson from the early National Socialists
Am I the only person that noticed that this guy fucking just referenced the fucking NAZI PARTY?!!!

[blackstone]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal+October 03, 2007 03:51 am--> (black coffee black metal @ October 03, 2007 03:51 am)
Originally posted by A [email protected] 27, 2007 08:00 pm
Rule of law, rule of law, rule of law

H Rap Brown
OK...you asked for it, brothers. OK, we going to talk about law and order versus justice in America, then. You see, Lyndon Johnson can always sit up and talk about...he can always raise an argument about law and order, because he never talks about justice. But black people fall for that same argument, and they go around talking about law breakers. We did not make the laws in this country. We are neither morally nor legally confined to those laws. Those laws that keep them up, keep us down. We got to begin to understand that. [applause] See, justice is a joke in this country, and it stinks of its hypocricy. [/b]
I love H Rap Brown, Stokely Charmichael, Bobby Seale, Huey P Newton,etc. They spoke raw truth. They were able to convey abstract ideas in a way that normal people, working people can understand. I think this is something that alot of leftists have lost. Some people think the more jargon you use, the better. I think the opposite.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by blackstone+October 04, 2007 07:31 am--> (blackstone @ October 04, 2007 07:31 am)
Originally posted by black coffee black metal+October 03, 2007 03:51 am--> (black coffee black metal @ October 03, 2007 03:51 am)
A [email protected] 27, 2007 08:00 pm
Rule of law, rule of law, rule of law

H Rap Brown
OK...you asked for it, brothers. OK, we going to talk about law and order versus justice in America, then. You see, Lyndon Johnson can always sit up and talk about...he can always raise an argument about law and order, because he never talks about justice. But black people fall for that same argument, and they go around talking about law breakers. We did not make the laws in this country. We are neither morally nor legally confined to those laws. Those laws that keep them up, keep us down. We got to begin to understand that. [applause] See, justice is a joke in this country, and it stinks of its hypocricy. [/b]
I love H Rap Brown, Stokely Charmichael, Bobby Seale, Huey P Newton,etc. They spoke raw truth. They were able to convey abstract ideas in a way that normal people, working people can understand. I think this is something that alot of leftists have lost. Some people think the more jargon you use, the better. I think the opposite. [/b]
They were decent, but certainly not flawless. In the same speech, H Rap Brown denies the idea of class differences among black Americans.

[JoePedo]

Originally posted by A [email protected] 26, 2007 11:05 pm
Re: 'How is a shoe a deadly weapon?'- it becomes a deadly weapon the minute it is applied forcefully and repeatedly to someone's head, especially when the victim is already unconcious and quite unable to defend himself, THAT'S WHEN. I can't believe you even tried that argument.

a. AK-47.
b. Machete.
c. Tennis Shoe.
d. Rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

'One of these things is not like the others...'

Perhaps if you were so fond of the "rule of law" - which tends to be overrated; hitler had it, the resistance didn't - perhaps you would begin to advocate that, quite possibly, a person should have to be armed before being prosecuted for a charge which requires armed assault. I very much promise you, one of the things in the list above is quite drastically unlike the rest, no?

Then again, I'm guessing you don't give a fuck about the rule of law. This would be perfectly fine, were you not concurrently arguing for the arbitrary rule of a nation-state completely unchecked by law or procedure, and in this case, very white-supremacist.

[A Suvorov]

Originally posted by Red Heretic+October 04, 2007 06:07 am--> (Red Heretic @ October 04, 2007 06:07 am)
A [email protected] 02, 2007 12:41 am
we could take a lesson from the early National Socialists
Am I the only person that noticed that this guy fucking just referenced the fucking NAZI PARTY?!!![/b]
Yes, I referenced them and I invite you to re-examine the CONTEXT in which I did so. Okay, so nobody likes the National Socialists for what they did- fair enough, of course. BUT, in viewing the National Socialist movement as a PROCESS of political activism one cannot deny they were possibly the single most effective party ever seen. I am in no way advocating or acting as an apologist for their end-game methods re: ethnic cleaning, but rather in the sense of studying just HOW they came to power, not necessarily what they DID when they got there. If, for instance, they DIDN'T go about removing the Jews from Europe or wherever in such a manner and DIDN'T have a puported plan for their destruction, what then? If they had gone about their plan in a more practical, humane, and carefully measured manner perhaps they'd have survived to this day, and without being demonized as they are now. Of course, we all know that DIDN'T happen, and they get what they deserved. And remember, National Socialism AS A POLITICAL SYSTEM isn't all that different from many modern nations' systems- the only real difference is their addition of the racial factor that sets them apart. Study their organization, their goals and how they integrated those into their everyday planning, their internal processes- THAT is where one will find how to create and run a successful political machine. Dont' think for one minute their lessons have been lost on modern politicians- oh no- the National Socialists' methods and organization are studied inside and out by politicians the world over as a model to emulate in their own quest for power.

After all, for most practical purposes there was very little difference between the PRACTICE of National Socialism in Germany and 'Stalinism' in the USSR in those days- the only palpable difference was the ideology that drove the political machine. Germany put race bfore everything, the USSR put the state before all else. Mix-n-match ideologies, in the end.

No, what I was referring to, and apparently most others 'got it' is that we need to get off our asses and get our act together- if it means studying the methods and history of other 'not Left' groups, then so be it. One can't study military history without taking both sides situations into account- so much more so than the struggle we purport to engage in.

The fact of the matter is that if the Left doesn't come up with a coherent plan we as a group are going to be truly 'left' in the cold when the REAL revolution happens- if we're not ready for it, we might as well be watching Spongebob instead of talking, talking, talking here for no discernable end.

[blackstone]

Mychal Bell back in Jail!

A judge ordered a black teenager back to jail, deciding the fight that put him in the national spotlight violated terms of his probation for a previous conviction, his attorney said.

Mychal Bell, who along with five other black teenagers in the so-called Jena Six case is accused of beating a white classmate, had gone to juvenile court in Jena on Thursday expecting another routine hearing, said Carol Powell Lexing, one of his attorneys.

Instead, state District Judge J.P. Mauffrey Jr. sentenced Bell to 18 months in jail on two counts of simple battery and two counts of criminal destruction of property, Lexing said.

"We are definitely going to appeal this," she said. "We'll continue to fight."

Bell had been hit with those charges before the Dec. 4 attack on classmate Justin Barker. Details on the previous charges, which were handled in juvenile court, were unclear.

Mauffrey, reached at his home Thursday night, had no comment.

"He's locked up again," Marcus Jones said of his 17-year-old son. "No bail has been set or nothing. He's a young man who's been thrown in jail again and again, and he just has to take it."

After the attack on Barker, Bell was originally charged with attempted murder, but the charges were reduced and he was convicted of battery. An appeals court threw that conviction out, saying Bell should not have been tried as an adult on that charge.

Racial tensions began rising in August 2006 in Jena after a black student sat under a tree known as a gathering spot for white students. Three white students later hung nooses from the tree. They were suspended but not prosecuted.

More than 20,000 demonstrators gathered last month in the small central Louisiana town to protest what they perceive as differences in how black and white suspects are treated. The case has drawn the attention of civil rights activists including the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Sharpton reacted swiftly upon learning Bell was back in jail Thursday.

"We feel this was a cruel and unusual punishment and is a revenge by this judge for the Jena Six movement," said Sharpton, who helped organize the protest held Sept. 20, the day Bell was originally supposed to be sentenced.

more here
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3721370