Hippies dissolve Fascist Barrier with Love

[Mkultra]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1hAx5G0I9mU

[RedStarOverChina]

This is so lame.... :huh:

[Mkultra]

people confronting power is never lame

[RedStarOverChina]

Confronting? They were this close from making love with the pigs.

Maybe that's just the way they carry out business, but I wouldn't do it that way.

[RedStarOverChina]

And also, what's that "one nation, under god" "patriotic Americans coming through" talk all about?

[Mkultra]

the Love worked

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:16 am
And also, what's that "one nation, under god" "patriotic Americans coming through" talk all about?
that was lame imperialist rhetoric I agree

[Zurdito]

After watcing for two minutes and hearing them say "I'm an American" countless times and not mention class once, I turned off.

[Fawkes]

How fucking lame can you be? Hippies suck.

[dez]

hahahahha

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:38 am
After watcing for two minutes and hearing them say "I'm an American" countless times and not mention class once, I turned off.
americans are brainwashed to not think in terms of class--thats how much power the corporate beast has here

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:41 am
How fucking lame can you be? Hippies suck.
hippies are historically and spiritually correct

[Mkultra]

its never lame to do anything to fight the power--its only lame to do nothing at all

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Mkultra+September 20, 2007 08:19 pm--> (Mkultra @ September 20, 2007 08:19 pm)
[email protected] 21, 2007 12:41 am
How fucking lame can you be? Hippies suck.
hippies are historically and spiritually correct [/b]
What? How? How are they "spiritually correct" (if that's even possible)?

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Fawkes+September 21, 2007 01:24 am--> (Fawkes @ September 21, 2007 01:24 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 08:19 pm

[email protected] 21, 2007 12:41 am
How fucking lame can you be? Hippies suck.
hippies are historically and spiritually correct
What? How? How are they "spiritually correct" (if that's even possible)? [/b]
cause they believe in the power of Love to change the world

[dez]

civil disobedience is a powerful thing.
Hippies were largely inspired by it, and a lot of us could be inspired by them on that matter.

[Ismail]

No, hippies are not a good thing. They make the rest of the left look like jokes. (not just hippies, but other groups whom I shall not mention here)

First off, I'd willing to bet about 96% of the hippies of the 60's and 70's later went into mainstream culture and returned to their normal middle-class/upper-class lifestyle. Most of them only cared about drugs and sex. There was no progress towards Communism, or even Socialism. Even anarchism didn't get anywhere in hippie culture. It was a petty-bourgeois "rebellious" movement and will always remain as such. It is like saying that emos represent a great revolutionary movement because they just want to love others and are usually against the government.


cause they believe in the power of Love to change the world"Hello mr. bourgeois politician, I love you." will get you nowhere. The bourgeois do not hand out flowers and love, they throw out bombs and foment reaction. I cannot remember any serious movements that were based on the hippie culture.


civil disobedience is a powerful thing.
Hippies were largely inspired by it, and a lot of us could be inspired by them on that matter.Like the early 20th century US labor movements? The feminist movement? You know, movements that could actually be taken seriously by a majority of the US population? I'm willing to bet Eugene V. Debs and Emma Goldman did more for social and economic progress than Peter Fonda or The Beatles.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Mkultra+September 20, 2007 08:25 pm--> (Mkultra @ September 20, 2007 08:25 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 01:24 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 08:19 pm

[email protected] 21, 2007 12:41 am
How fucking lame can you be? Hippies suck.
hippies are historically and spiritually correct
What? How? How are they "spiritually correct" (if that's even possible)?
cause they believe in the power of Love to change the world [/b]
I.e. they're idiots.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Hippies are freaks that are disconnected from real working-class movements.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:16 am
And also, what's that "one nation, under god" "patriotic Americans coming through" talk all about?
It is called "confusing the pigs".

Much like as we used to do when the police charged against us, back in the late seventies: started to sing the national anthem. The pigs could never figure out if they should keep charging, or if they should present arms...

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:38 am
After watcing for two minutes and hearing them say "I'm an American" countless times and not mention class once, I turned off.
Why would they?

There were two groups of people there, the hippies and the pigs. To talk about class to the pigs, in that context, would be absolutely useless. To talk about class to themselves, perhaps? Supposing they are class conscious, what's the use? Supposing they are not, how would they?

They wanted to pass, the police wanted to block them. They passed, they won, the police lost. That's what important in this event.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 03:40 am
Hippies are freaks that are disconnected from real working-class movements.
Like most of us in revleft?

Luís Henrique

[Colonello Buendia]

Hippies are weird to say the least but this group was weird by hippie standards"partiotic Americans coming through"? and One great nation undr God!? It sounds like the republican party has infiltrated them.

[Pirate Utopian]

The revolution is just dripping from this... NOT!

Apart from some good music hippies are quite useless.

[Red Scare]

yeah all hippies do is make communes and smoke dope and get nothing done.... hmmmm very productive

[lombas]

Many hippies of the sixties voted Bush in power.

[spartan]

Hippies are a bunch of Bourgeoisie reactionary twats who think it is "cool" to be "rebellious" by not conforming to society. They are a fucking waste of the lefts time and we should just let them concentrate on their love shit whilst we fight a power that is the most destructive force in human history. Namely the Capitalist system which these stupid hippies unknowingly prop up the twats!

[RedStarOverChina]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 09:06 am
Hippies are a bunch of Bourgeoisie reactionary twats who think it is "cool" to be "rebellious". They are a fucking waste of the lefts time and we should just let them concentrate on their love shit whilst we fight a power that is the most destructive force in human history. Namely the Capitalist system which these stupid hippies unknowingly prop up the twats!
That's a bit too harsh, ain't it?

They are just very misguided (and lame), IMO. Calling them "reactionaries" is going a bit too far.

[spartan]

We are not going to get to our future society peacefully RSOC. The revolution will be a violent one in which lots of people (Hopefully most of them Bourgeoisie) will die! Not a peaceful revolution where the Proletariat and Bourgeoisie share a few drinks and the Proletariat manages to convince the Bourgeoisie to renounce there evil ways! So in my opinion these peace loving, no better than Bourgeoisie, hippies are reactionaries as they are weak and renounce violence and yet violence is the only way that the Proletariat will overthrow their oppression!

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 09:43 am
We are not going to get to our future society peacefully RSOC. The revolution will be a violent one in which lots of people (Hopefully most of them Bourgeoisie) will die! Not a peaceful revolution where the Proletariat and Bourgeoisie share a few drinks and the Proletariat manages to convince the Bourgeoisie to renounce there evil ways! So in my opinion these peace loving, no better than Bourgeoisie, hippies are reactionaries as they are weak and renounce violence and yet violence is the only way that the Proletariat will overthrow their oppression!
REVOLUTION!!!! dont listen to the fucking peace loving high twats! :star:

[Bilan]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 21, 2007 11:41 pm
yeah all hippies do is make communes and smoke dope and get nothing done.... hmmmm very productive
hey!
They do other stuff too!
They make daisy chains, have BBQ's, and over use the word "man"!
How dare you misrepresent them!

[Bilan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:06 am
Hippies are a bunch of Bourgeoisie reactionary twats who think it is "cool" to be "rebellious" by not conforming to society. They are a fucking waste of the lefts time and we should just let them concentrate on their love shit whilst we fight a power that is the most destructive force in human history. Namely the Capitalist system which these stupid hippies unknowingly prop up the twats!
Don't call everyone "reactionary" or "bourgeois"
It just makes you sound like a wanker.

- no offense. It's just annoying. -

[spartan]

TYL:
Don't call everyone "reactionary" or "bourgeois"
It just makes you sound like a wanker.

- no offense. It's just annoying. -
But that is what they are! There non violent approch will not work when the revolution comes about and the Bourgeoisie will do anything they can to retain power! Most hippies are just temporarily dissaffected Bourgeoisie kids anyway so who gives a fuck.

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 08:48 am
TYL:
Don't call everyone "reactionary" or "bourgeois"
It just makes you sound like a wanker.

- no offense. It's just annoying. -
But that is what they are! There non violent approch will not work when the revolution comes about and the Bourgeoisie will do anything they can to retain power! Most hippies are just temporarily dissaffected Bourgeoisie kids anyway so who gives a fuck.
Without the hippy counterculture we (the US) would have never pulled out from Vietnam.

There were plenty of campus massacres of them by pigs when they occasionally protested the war.

You can't say that they're all reactionary, as they protested and gave up their lives along with the rest of the anti-imperialist movement at the time. Even today they're like a minor Zapatista movement.

I do wish they spent more time with social change rather than hitting their bongs all day, though.

[spartan]

rev0lt:
Without the hippy counterculture we (the US) would have never pulled out from Vietnam.
It was not just them but i agree that they were influential in the decision and reasons to pull out but the biggest reason was due to money.

There were plenty of campus massacres of them by pigs when they occasionally protested the war.
That is true but i dont see what that statement brings to the debate?

You can't say that they're all reactionary, as they protested and gave up their lives along with the rest of the anti-imperialist movement at the time.
Fair enough i agree with you on that one.

Even today they're like a minor Zapatista movement.
:huh: I dont understand? How are they like a minor Zapatista movement?

I do wish they spent more time with social change rather than hitting their bongs all day, though.
:lol: that is something we both can agree on!

[Bilan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 01:48 am
TYL:
Don't call everyone "reactionary" or "bourgeois"
It just makes you sound like a wanker.

- no offense. It's just annoying. -
But that is what they are! There non violent approch will not work when the revolution comes about and the Bourgeoisie will do anything they can to retain power! Most hippies are just temporarily dissaffected Bourgeoisie kids anyway so who gives a fuck.
Having lame arse tactics doesn't make them reactionary.
It just makes them ignorant.

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 10:07 am

There were plenty of campus massacres of them by pigs when they occasionally protested the war.
That is true but i dont see what that statement brings to the debate?

Even today they're like a minor Zapatista movement.
:huh: I dont understand? How are they like a minor Zapatista movement?
1.) They gave up their lives in the face of repression.

2.) They live in 'hippy communes' all around the 'states. I see quite a few in my city alone, they also run a major worker-operated shop with plenty of your odd lefty wants. (e.g. (real) organic foods and herbal medicine)

[Zurdito]

They are just very misguided (and lame), IMO. Calling them "reactionaries" is going a bit too far.

Actually, saying "I'm an American, a patriotic American, let me pass" and praising the "constitution" etc., is pretty damn reactionary IMO.

[spartan]

Zurdito:
Actually, saying "I'm an American, a patriotic American, let me pass" and praising the "constitution" etc., is pretty damn reactionary IMO.
Exactly! Hippies unless they renounce there non violence shit are a waste of our time! Plus some of them are primitives so that speaks for itself i think.

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 01:37 am
No, hippies are not a good thing. They make the rest of the left look like jokes. (not just hippies, but other groups whom I shall not mention here)

First off, I'd willing to bet about 96% of the hippies of the 60's and 70's later went into mainstream culture and returned to their normal middle-class/upper-class lifestyle. Most of them only cared about drugs and sex. There was no progress towards Communism, or even Socialism. Even anarchism didn't get anywhere in hippie culture. It was a petty-bourgeois "rebellious" movement and will always remain as such. It is like saying that emos represent a great revolutionary movement because they just want to love others and are usually against the government.


cause they believe in the power of Love to change the world"Hello mr. bourgeois politician, I love you." will get you nowhere. The bourgeois do not hand out flowers and love, they throw out bombs and foment reaction. I cannot remember any serious movements that were based on the hippie culture.


civil disobedience is a powerful thing.
Hippies were largely inspired by it, and a lot of us could be inspired by them on that matter.Like the early 20th century US labor movements? The feminist movement? You know, movements that could actually be taken seriously by a majority of the US population? I'm willing to bet Eugene V. Debs and Emma Goldman did more for social and economic progress than Peter Fonda or The Beatles.
maybe they did but thats no reason to trash fashion

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Fawkes+September 21, 2007 01:41 am--> (Fawkes @ September 21, 2007 01:41 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 08:25 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 01:24 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 08:19 pm

[email protected] 21, 2007 12:41 am
How fucking lame can you be? Hippies suck.
hippies are historically and spiritually correct
What? How? How are they "spiritually correct" (if that's even possible)?
cause they believe in the power of Love to change the world
I.e. they're idiots. [/b]
theyre spiritually correct

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 03:40 am
Hippies are freaks that are disconnected from real working-class movements.
was Jesus a freak?

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Luís Henrique+September 21, 2007 10:49 am--> (Luís Henrique @ September 21, 2007 10:49 am)
[email protected] 21, 2007 12:16 am
And also, what's that "one nation, under god" "patriotic Americans coming through" talk all about?
It is called "confusing the pigs".

Much like as we used to do when the police charged against us, back in the late seventies: started to sing the national anthem. The pigs could never figure out if they should keep charging, or if they should present arms...

Luís Henrique [/b]
protester psy-ops

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Big Manifes[email protected] 21, 2007 01:34 pm
The revolution is just dripping from this... NOT!

Apart from some good music hippies are quite useless.
false--they also invented pot brownies and an entire scene

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 01:41 pm
Many hippies of the sixties voted Bush in power.
I dont think so--theres sellouts in every group but it doesnt condemn the whole

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 02:06 pm
Hippies are a bunch of Bourgeoisie reactionary twats who think it is "cool" to be "rebellious" by not conforming to society. They are a fucking waste of the lefts time and we should just let them concentrate on their love shit whilst we fight a power that is the most destructive force in human history. Namely the Capitalist system which these stupid hippies unknowingly prop up the twats!
how do they prop it up? by living on communes growing their own food and goin local? from what i can see hippies live more of their values then most

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 10:52 pm

They are just very misguided (and lame), IMO. Calling them "reactionaries" is going a bit too far.

Actually, saying "I'm an American, a patriotic American, let me pass" and praising the "constitution" etc., is pretty damn reactionary IMO.
not if you see it as a psy-ops strategy to confuse the cops

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 11:01 pm
Zurdito:
Actually, saying "I'm an American, a patriotic American, let me pass" and praising the "constitution" etc., is pretty damn reactionary IMO.
Exactly! Hippies unless they renounce there non violence shit are a waste of our time! Plus some of them are primitives so that speaks for itself i think.
you complain of primitivism yet you believe in violent revolutions

[Enragé]

Though i agree with most people here that this is well... not really what we should be looking to do, and that hippies never really do amount to anything, we also shouldnt be as negative as most of you are.

At least they're doing SOMETHING, and the SPIRIT is there, it just has to be channelled, you cant expect people to just be class conscious, to be revolutionary right away, i know i didnt start out like that! We should try to hijack shit like this, for lack of a better word, as in we should try to influence people like this, instead of simply yelling at them because they're not as politically developed as we are thereby turning them off from any more radical path. You cannot expect people to have been born with a raised fist, and a hamer and sickle or anarchy tattoo-ed on their shoulders. Come on, all this arrogance is completely counter-productive.
The reason so many sold out is because the revolutionary left never quite manage to drag them in, because we were to busy being right rather than actually trying to build a movement.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by Mkultra+September 22, 2007 01:57 am--> (Mkultra @ September 22, 2007 01:57 am)
[email protected] 21, 2007 11:01 pm
Zurdito:
Actually, saying "I'm an American, a patriotic American, let me pass" and praising the "constitution" etc., is pretty damn reactionary IMO.
Exactly! Hippies unless they renounce there non violence shit are a waste of our time! Plus some of them are primitives so that speaks for itself i think.
you complain of primitivism yet you believe in violent revolutions [/b]
well some degree of violence will most likely be necessary, or do you expect the powerful to simply hand over power, to simply let their privileges be abolished? Do you expect people like Bush and Cheney to say "Oh i see now! You're right, thank you for letting me see the light, here you are, have my money, and you know what, im resigning, the people can have the power!"

[Mkultra]

yes cause of all that snobbery of who is more lefter and revolutionary--people get over yourselfs--anyone thats showing ANY degree of rebellion should be encourgad and coddled not condescended on and btw all this condensation is very bourgoise-ish

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by NKOS+September 22, 2007 02:02 am--> (NKOS @ September 22, 2007 02:02 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 01:57 am

[email protected] 21, 2007 11:01 pm
Zurdito:
Actually, saying "I'm an American, a patriotic American, let me pass" and praising the "constitution" etc., is pretty damn reactionary IMO.
Exactly! Hippies unless they renounce there non violence shit are a waste of our time! Plus some of them are primitives so that speaks for itself i think.
you complain of primitivism yet you believe in violent revolutions
well some degree of violence will most likely be necessary, or do you expect the powerful to simply hand over power, to simply let their privileges be abolished? Do you expect people like Bush and Cheney to say "Oh i see now! You're right, thank you for letting me see the light, here you are, have my money, and you know what, im resigning, the people can have the power!" [/b]
I totally favor violence as a means of achieving an objective as long as its very directed and not mindless violence that boomerangs out control and works to only benefit the most repressive elements

[Mkultra]

I mean the French Revolution started out all good and everything when they were chopping off all those rich peopels heads but then it just at some point didnt stop and turned into the Reign of Terror

[Enragé]

yes cause of all that snobbery of who is more lefter and revolutionary--people get over yourselfs--anyone thats showing ANY degree of rebellion should be encourgad and coddled not condescended on and btw all this condensation is very bourgoise-ish

Exactly.

People, know your history, Fascism took and consolidated power in italy at least partly because of this nonsensical attitude (the maximalists/bordigists)


I totally favor violence as a means of achieving an objective as long as its very directed and not mindless violence that boomerangs out control and works to only benefit the most repressive elements

I couldnt agree more

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Without the hippy counterculture we (the US) would have never pulled out from Vietnam.

1. "We" are not the U.S. imperialists. Let's make that distinction first. To do otherwise is to play into the bourgeoisie's myth of a 'united America' with no divisions.

2. The imperialists were beaten in Viet Nam. They couldn't win, soldiers were mutinying all the time (refusing ordered, even executing commanders), there was a rise in militant communists in the U.S. -- the most authentic of whom were calling for "Victory to the Viet Cong," liberation struggles were popping up around the world, etc.

All of that is what caused the imperialists to pull out of Viet Nam - not hippie "counterculture."

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 22, 2007 02:13 am

Without the hippy counterculture we (the US) would have never pulled out from Vietnam.

1. "We" are not the U.S. imperialists. Let's make that distinction first. To do otherwise is to play into the bourgeoisie's myth of a 'united America' with no divisions.

2. The imperialists were beaten in Viet Nam. They couldn't win, soldiers were mutinying all the time (refusing ordered, even executing commanders), there was a rise in militant communists in the U.S. -- the most authentic of whom were calling for "Victory to the Viet Cong," liberation struggles were popping up around the world, etc.

All of that is what caused the imperialists to pull out of Viet Nam - not hippie "counterculture."
despite all those realities the Bush class still wanted to stay in Vietnam (much like they refuse to pull out of Iraq now regardless of the realities there) because eternal warfare is one of the ways they make their money so the hippies did force it to end

[Mkultra]

all this hippy bashing shows how successfully youve all been programmed by the bourgoise media to have these kind of shallow stereotypes against everyone who rebels

its kinda like listening to Bill O'Reilly and you know if you start agreeing with vermin like that you better start reassessing whether maybe your having a knee jerk reaction to a media implanted anti-leftist attitude

[Enragé]

all this hippy bashing shows how successfully youve all been programmed by the bourgoise media to have these kind of shallow stereotypes against everyone who rebels

its kinda like listening to Bill O'Reilly and you know if you start agreeing with vermin like that you better start reassessing whether maybe your having a knee jerk reaction to a media implanted anti-leftist attitude

I dont think its that. I think seriously radically left people are sick and tired of wishy-washy movements with weak proposals, weak theoretical background, and above all to see them fail time after time. And yes, they are pervaded by bourgeois and petty bourgeois sentiments. I understand why people are acting the way they do, my point is that you cannot expect people to be revolutionary right away, its a process, and all this *****ing about hippies will only keep them non-revolutionary, will only be detrimental to our cause (since we need to tap any rebellious undertone in society, how far removed from actual revolutionary politics they may be, if we are to build the movement we so desperately need to bring about the change we all want).

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 02:33 am

all this hippy bashing shows how successfully youve all been programmed by the bourgoise media to have these kind of shallow stereotypes against everyone who rebels

its kinda like listening to Bill O'Reilly and you know if you start agreeing with vermin like that you better start reassessing whether maybe your having a knee jerk reaction to a media implanted anti-leftist attitude

I dont think its that. I think seriously radically left people are sick and tired of wishy-washy movements with weak proposals, weak theoretical background, and above all to see them fail time after time. And yes, they are pervaded by bourgeois and petty bourgeois sentiments. I understand why people are acting the way they do, my point is that you cannot expect people to be revolutionary right away, its a process, and all this *****ing about hippies will only keep them non-revolutionary, will only be detrimental to our cause (since we need to tap any rebellious undertone in society, how far removed from actual revolutionary politics they may be, if we are to build the movement we so desperately need to bring about the change we all want).
I totally agree--its just leftists at a more earlier stage of development and to bash them is like killing the children--let them stay rebellious until they evolve into full fledged frontal revolutionaries

[Enragé]

yea
and to that end we need to actively influence them, not yell at them as many have been doing here.

For fuck sake, when i started getting interested in politics i was a left socdem at the most. If the first time i was confronted by revolutionary leftism would have been some arrogant fuck yelling at me for not being radical, i doubt i would have become revolutionary (thats just the way it works).

[Vendetta]

I don't know what i'll contribite to the dezcussion...but if any of yall look over PoliticsForum...: here's a dude who claims to have ben a hippy:

or hippie, whatever.


Gintonpar nailed it. I know. I was one.

The hippie movement wasn't really a 'movement'. It lacked a unified structure or even common goals. It was somewhat derivitive of the civil rights and anti-povery movements in the early-mid 60's but not really aimed squarely at those goals. Its child is the new age movement in the US today. It was more a youthful consciousness-expanding fad. It was mostly about music, drugs and sex. Not necessarily in that order. And it was amazing fun for awhile. It was also vain, self-destructive, hypocritical and boorish. I "reformed" thanks in part to local draft board #46 and in part because it finally seemed so futile. We had discussons about comunalizm but these devolved to the best way to grow pot without getting caught. We tried to form comunes but it was really just a good way to get access to lots of girls. We dressed silly but our songs were not the protest songs of the early 60's though a few remained. Remember the Beatles "turned hippie" when record sales began to drop.

Here is another good remark


Hippies ruined the left during the 60s. They were disorganized, inaffectual, sloppy, and ignorant about politics in general.

I don't know about ignorant. Perhaps. The rest is absolutely true. Hippies and their offshoot counter-culture groups trivialized real progressive thought. We turned it into dress-up. We had sex with black girls and thought about how that rid us of racism. 'I mean, I can't be a racist. My girlfirend is black. Right?'We protested the war in Vietnam decrying the poor victims of US bombing in the North all the while truly worried that we might get drafted.

Then we went to Princetom, the Army, Journalism school and work. Some of us became the shame of the progressive movement today. What is often called limousine liberals. Insidious folks who still think social activitism begins with dress-up. People who believe all you have to do to end racism is stay out of the fight and let minorities "self-determine". They never got over the the real truth of the hippie era. We were all about sharing and communalism and world peace and happiness. We would give anything we had to our fellow hippies as long as it didn't cut into our drug money.

In the final analysis the hippie era was just about 7 years of spring break. Fun, sexy and intoxicated. But never meant to last.

bit toxicatd. so sorry gain if I don't contribuet.

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 21, 2007 07:13 pm
1. "We" are not the U.S. imperialists. Let's make that distinction first. To do otherwise is to play into the bourgeoisie's myth of a 'united America' with no divisions.

2. The imperialists were beaten in Viet Nam. They couldn't win, soldiers were mutinying all the time (refusing ordered, even executing commanders), there was a rise in militant communists in the U.S. -- the most authentic of whom were calling for "Victory to the Viet Cong," liberation struggles were popping up around the world, etc.

All of that is what caused the imperialists to pull out of Viet Nam - not hippie "counterculture."
1. You are correct, semantics aside...

2. They (the US imperialists) lost the moment they declared war. It was totally baseless, and the army was not suited for guerilla warfare.

It wasn't until images and videos from the conflict and of those afflicted reached the public -- many of whom came from that very counter-culture -- that showed the true nature of the war.

To say that they did not have a profound influence on ending it is a lie, as they (and eligeble draftees, which included those very same hippies!) were the most vehemently anti-war throughout the period and helped bring public awareness to the disastrous imperialist venture.

I hope you don't doubt many 'militant communists' were 'hippies' as well

The BPP and similar groups weren't focused on ending the war as much, being primarily working for the public well-being and self-defense for those in the inner city's.

3. On the 'liberation struggles popping up around the world':

Examples? I can't recall any. Oh right, Pol-Pot's Cambodia FTW!

[Mkultra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 02:46 am
I don't know what i'll contribite to the dezcussion...but if any of yall look over PoliticsForum...: here's a dude who claims to have ben a hippy:

or hippie, whatever.


Gintonpar nailed it. I know. I was one.

The hippie movement wasn't really a 'movement'. It lacked a unified structure or even common goals. It was somewhat derivitive of the civil rights and anti-povery movements in the early-mid 60's but not really aimed squarely at those goals. Its child is the new age movement in the US today. It was more a youthful consciousness-expanding fad. It was mostly about music, drugs and sex. Not necessarily in that order. And it was amazing fun for awhile. It was also vain, self-destructive, hypocritical and boorish. I "reformed" thanks in part to local draft board #46 and in part because it finally seemed so futile. We had discussons about comunalizm but these devolved to the best way to grow pot without getting caught. We tried to form comunes but it was really just a good way to get access to lots of girls. We dressed silly but our songs were not the protest songs of the early 60's though a few remained. Remember the Beatles "turned hippie" when record sales began to drop.

Here is another good remark


Hippies ruined the left during the 60s. They were disorganized, inaffectual, sloppy, and ignorant about politics in general.

I don't know about ignorant. Perhaps. The rest is absolutely true. Hippies and their offshoot counter-culture groups trivialized real progressive thought. We turned it into dress-up. We had sex with black girls and thought about how that rid us of racism. 'I mean, I can't be a racist. My girlfirend is black. Right?'We protested the war in Vietnam decrying the poor victims of US bombing in the North all the while truly worried that we might get drafted.

Then we went to Princetom, the Army, Journalism school and work. Some of us became the shame of the progressive movement today. What is often called limousine liberals. Insidious folks who still think social activitism begins with dress-up. People who believe all you have to do to end racism is stay out of the fight and let minorities "self-determine". They never got over the the real truth of the hippie era. We were all about sharing and communalism and world peace and happiness. We would give anything we had to our fellow hippies as long as it didn't cut into our drug money.

In the final analysis the hippie era was just about 7 years of spring break. Fun, sexy and intoxicated. But never meant to last.

bit toxicatd. so sorry gain if I don't contribuet.
I think his insights as a hippy are interesting to read but his criticisms are counter productive from a strategy perspective--we need hippie conscioussness to spread the vision that other realitys are possible outside of the plastic culture

[Mkultra]

I dont think the hippy culture of the 60s was in anyway a failure--I think its only portrayed that way by the ruling elite who to this day are terrified of people power ever expressing itself on a mass scale like that again so theyll do anything to make it look rediculous or try to diminish it in an attempt that such mass rebellion doesnt become a "fad" again

and they DID stop the war and those in power know it