boy scout homophobia

[Red Scare]

since i am bisexual i hate all homophobia and i recently found out that the boy scouts, (an organization of tools) prohibit membership of all homosexuals, bisexuals, and "transgender individuals" because they think it is immoral and wrong. they also prohibit membership of atheists and agnostics, even though i never was a boy scout this pisses me off :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Black Dagger]

(just curious) why did you want to join the boy scouts anyway? (or did you not want to - but just found out about their policy?)

[Freigemachten]

I'm pretty sure that the whole banning homosexuals thing was overturned a few years ago. Also, I've got a good friend who is a boyscout and is nearly an Eagle (top rank) and is an atheist. You've just got to be able to explain yourself well when the god question comes up in your interveiw for advancement.

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by bleeding gums [email protected] 20, 2007 10:15 am
(just curious) why did you want to join the boy scouts anyway? (or did you not want to - but just found out about their policy?)
i do not want to become one i was just angry about it because there could be homosexual, bisexual, or transexual people who want to join.

[YSR]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 10:02 am
I'm pretty sure that the whole banning homosexuals thing was overturned a few years ago. Also, I've got a good friend who is a boyscout and is nearly an Eagle (top rank) and is an atheist. You've just got to be able to explain yourself well when the god question comes up in your interveiw for advancement.
Eh, not really true. They still kick out leaders who are out. Also, you can be kicked out if you're an atheist. Your friend must have had a tolerant troop.

I was a boy scout when I was a kid. It was a great organization, except of course the ridiculous hierarchical structure, homophobia, theism, and military patriotism. So...err...

Seriously though, the idea of getting young people to go out and learn wilderness skills is super great, it's just all the bad shit associated with it that makes the Boy Scouts fucked as hell.

[counterblast]

Boy Scouts is a Christian organization; so I can't say I find it surprising. Although in the early 90's they began moving away from being a "Christian Only" organization by allowing non-Christians, and removing some of the Bible references from their handbooks, they still have all sorts of double-standards for people who don't meet pious Christian standards.

[Red Scare]

yeah, i used to be in the cub scouts (when i was a young 'un) and we did some fun hiking and stuff but besides that we learned all this rightwing and religious shit

[The New Manifesto]

I'm pretty sure that the whole banning homosexuals thing was overturned a few years ago. Also, I've got a good friend who is a boyscout and is nearly an Eagle (top rank) and is an atheist. You've just got to be able to explain yourself well when the god question comes up in your interveiw for advancement.

I a also a high rank, an a vocal atheist. But what people don't understand is Boy Scouts is a very decentralized orginization, each "Troop" sets its own standerds, yes there is National Standerds and rules and national guidlines and training, but all decisions are truly made at the "Troop Level". Yes there is a strong sence of patrotism embedded into the scouting tradition, but i have met more Anti-American anti-Chirstain setiments in the boyscouts then anywhere else.

[Cencus]

I was a Cub then a Scout from 8 thru to 16. It got me away from a rather shitty home situation for a few hours a week and the odd weekend, and taught me some usefull stuff. We'd do church parades and all that bollocks, which I hated. All our leaders were regular church goes, some were eldars, almost all were Church of Scotland, none were ever Catholic. By it's very nature the Scout/Guide movement is very traditionalist, insular, and backward looking, after all they were set up by an English lord to help train kids to be army scouts.

The promise when I was a Scout 20+ years ago

On my honour
I promise That I will do my best
to do my duty
to god and the queen
to help other people
and keep the scout law
(think thats right but it has been 20 odd years)
Don't ask me the fucking law it's too far back

Expecting the Scouts to be anything but homophobic is akin to expecting the catholic church to like condoms.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Heh, fuck the Scouts. Don't you Yanks have an equivalent to the Army Cadets (http://www.armycadets.com/home/)? All the fun of the Scouts and none of the outdated Christian morality, and it doesn't matter what sex or orientation you are, as either a cadet or an adult.

And pay no heed to the Navy Cadets, Air Cadets or Combined Cadet Force. They are but pale shadows of the real thing.

And the only real oath is the F-word. :D

[YSR]

Don't you Yanks have an equivalent to the Army Cadets? All the fun of the Scouts and none of the outdated Christian morality, and it doesn't matter what sex or orientation you are, as either a cadet or an adult.

Nope. We're one of the few countries in the world that has a scouting organization that only has one. Anyone who tries to call themselves Scouts in the U.S. but isn't part of the Boy Scouts of America gets slapped with a big ass fine.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 20, 2007 11:31 am
since i am bisexual i hate all homophobia and i recently found out that the boy scouts, (an organization of tools) prohibit membership of all homosexuals, bisexuals, and "transgender individuals" because they think it is immoral and wrong. they also prohibit membership of atheists and agnostics, even though i never was a boy scout this pisses me off :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
why would you want to associate with a such a reactionary jingo-ist bigoted pile of shit anyway?

[An archist]

hehe, the (mixed) scouts in belgium recently dropped the 'catholic' in their name, the whole thing is more about drinking

[Entrails Konfetti]

I got kicked out of Boy Scouts when I was 9 for saying "Hell".
Then I joined the Younge Marines, and I quit that because it sucked and they wanted me to cut my hair, and they didn't like me listening to Megadeth.

[Angry Young Man]

(Gran, The Wrong Boy, Willy Russell, on Raymond Marks being expelled from the scouts)

I think that Rudyard Kipling'd be turning in his grave that the name of the intrpid wolf was being used by an organization started by a five-foot-nothing paedophile with crypto-fascist tendencies

Yea I was a scout until the initiation week came. The leader was my dad's friend (obviously: he was the landlord). Seems like it started because some meddling bourgeois christian fathead wanted to do something "noble" for working class boys. I think a better and nobler idea would be to teach them socialism, solidarity and anti-exploitation rather than jesus and sitting round a campfire singing kumbyah.

Bolshe-beavers, commie-cubs and..err...redscouts. :D

Oh yea my original point - if you're old enough to be sexually aware, why do you wanna be a boyscout?

[Comrade Rage]

I was a scout up to Eagle. It was a fun experience, since they do a lot of outdoors stuff. This was like 1996, I was about 10.

Yeah let&#39;s make a Communist version and call it the Redscouts. However the anti-communist detractors will probably compare us to the Hitler Youth. <_<

[Angry Young Man]

So? I personally compare the boyscouts with the Hitler youth.

They&#39;re both about instilling right-wing values, accepting authority, submitting to discipline and absorbing religious bollocks. Like I quoted earlier, Baden-Powell was a "five-foot-nothing paedophile with crypto-fascist tendencies" - Grandma Marks to the scout leader Akela, Wrong Boy.

The Redscouts should be the opposite. There&#39;d still be all the campingand woodcraft. It&#39;d be how to make a fire with a wine bottle, some petrol, a rag and a capitalist.

We could teach them how to do a guerilla ambush, sniping, sneaking, etc. And do your duty to Marx and the people :) lol

[A.J.]

http://www.sovmusic.ru/jpg/posters/ussr0115.jpg

Long Live the Young Pioneers&#33; :)

[AGITprop]

Originally posted by Romantic [email protected] 27, 2007 06:06 pm

(Gran, The Wrong Boy, Willy Russell, on Raymond Marks being expelled from the scouts)

I think that Rudyard Kipling&#39;d be turning in his grave that the name of the intrpid wolf was being used by an organization started by a five-foot-nothing paedophile with crypto-fascist tendencies

Yea I was a scout until the initiation week came. The leader was my dad&#39;s friend (obviously: he was the landlord). Seems like it started because some meddling bourgeois christian fathead wanted to do something "noble" for working class boys. I think a better and nobler idea would be to teach them socialism, solidarity and anti-exploitation rather than jesus and sitting round a campfire singing kumbyah.

Bolshe-beavers, commie-cubs and..err...redscouts. :D

Oh yea my original point - if you&#39;re old enough to be sexually aware, why do you wanna be a boyscout?
u never know...boyscouts is a great place to meet men if u are interested in the same sex...: )

[luxemburg89]

"five-foot-nothing paedophile with crypto-fascist tendencies"

In which case he would get on perfectly with the ultra-Nationalist racist war-monger (and shit poet) Rudyard Kipling - as referenced in your quote.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Killer [email protected] 02, 2007 07:07 am
How is this policy any different than the Communist League prohibiting any of non-working class background from joining?
How is working class organisation different to institutional homophobia? I don&#39;t understand the question... i mean... how are they similar? :unsure:

[ack]

I&#39;m in a Boy Scout troop. I&#39;m actually the Senior Patrol Leader. I&#39;m very nihilistic. I haven&#39;t been kicked out yet. My troop is really chill.

But yeah, there&#39;s a lot of assholes in the organization. I pretty much hate all other Boy Scouts, with a very few exceptions. Whenever we go to summer camp I always have a fun time laughing at all their religion, and generally being a dick to everyone else. They&#39;re all pretty much homophobic, Christian, and a good portion are probably racist, whether they would admit to it or not.

[TC]

Not to be lame, but the boy scouts prohibit girls from joining too...

If you can buy into the idea that segregating kids by sex is okay than why is segregating kids by sexual orientation so much worse?

As far as i know the boy scounts of america are unusual in both of those regards.

[Comrade Rage]

Did anyone else hear about the City of Philadelphia evicting the BSA from it&#39;s city owned building?

[Jude]

Well, as far as the whole thing about discriminating by gender, I don&#39;t agree with you 100%....

as far as the whole Boy Scouts thing goes, (I&#39;m an Eagle Scout, but only because of the extra scholarship money) i think they are completely full of bullshit. Most of the guys in my troop are racist, chauvinist homophobes, and frankly, It pisses me off. I think it would be much better if there was less separation in organizations and activities of this kind.

But I go to a Catholic all-guys high school, and I actually think that it is better as far as education goes.

I anticipate the shit-storm that I&#39;ll get for going to a Catholic, private, expensive, all-guys school, and I will first explain that most of the teachers are very open-minded, and one of the deacons expresses his utter disappointment with religion today, although he is still in it... anyway, its not what you think, and just don&#39;t even start.

Anyway, my original point was, that for education, even though it is obviously not a total separation (there is a girls&#39; school right down the street) a separation of gender during the educational process is not terrible, and is actually beneficial, due to the fact that there is less distraction. From my personal experience, During this period, there needs to be an open-minded, focused atmosphere.

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 09:07 pm
I anticipate the shit-storm that I&#39;ll get for going to a Catholic, private, expensive, all-guys school
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd298/COMRADE_CRUM/MrHankey.jpg
Shit-storm, huh.

[RedStarOverChina]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GFqqYAoBc0&feature=related

Mormons sponsor Boy Scounts

[Patchd]

:lol: We should create the Red and Anarchist Combined Scouts (RACS), to teach fighting skills, and outdoor skills. :P :lol:

[LOTFW]

The United States Supreme Court ruled that, of course, the BSA has the right to discriminate. It&#39;s a private organization, no one makes you join, and they have a right to determine their membership.

They were challenged in the &#39;80s when it was argued they were a business, but that argument failed, and they were ruled a social organization that sells flashlights and uniforms as a sideline.

Needless to say, if you don&#39;t want to be a Boy scout, don&#39;t be one. Getting angry that their rules are not your rules is kinda dumb. It&#39;s like joining the KKK and getting upset they are racist, or joining the Baptist Church and getting mad that they believe only Christians go to heaven.

It&#39;s a big wide wonderful world out there. There are other organizations that may reflect your views, or at least be more inclusive.

[Jaden]

The ideas to start a revolutionary leftist organization similar to the boy scouts seems quite interesting. Though to make it happen would probably very stressing and it could just as easily be as exclusive as the boy scouts (did someone mention only letting working class people join?) Though if there were such an organization in America, I&#39;d be down to join or help. But I think the main thing going against the idea is that starting it would make people think that it&#39;s all about learning to make explosive devices and violence (it wouldn&#39;t be ALL about that, there&#39;s got to be a definite learning of the various revolutionary ideologies - socialism, anarchism, communism, etc. - then some philosophy, and other interesting things). Indeed it&#39;d be a revolutionary leftist organization and thus people would be quicker to want to shut it down. Probably a lot more likely to than trying to get the boy scouts to be more open about who they let join.

Anyway, it&#39;s not like the BSA is the equivalent of Blackwater or anything. Not so far as I know, anyway, so I wouldn&#39;t be too up about it. After all, you could still just start your own organization that&#39;s like it if you know what you&#39;re doing.

[An archist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:59 pm
:lol: We should create the Red and Anarchist Combined Scouts (RACS), to teach fighting skills, and outdoor skills. :P :lol:
Two people here tried to start something like that. Really fucked up, they wanted uniforms: black pants, green sweater and palestinian scarf. And people could teach each other stuff to earn badges, like rope making or squatting (the idea was: you had to squat a building for 24 hours, if the cops would leave the squat alone, the other members of the &#39;scoutsgroup&#39; would make it more difficult, afterwards, you&#39;d have to abandon the building and you&#39;d receive your badge)

Needless to say, no one joined their idea.

[w0lf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 07:27 am
The United States Supreme Court ruled that, of course, the BSA has the right to discriminate. It&#39;s a private organization, no one makes you join, and they have a right to determine their membership.

They were challenged in the &#39;80s when it was argued they were a business, but that argument failed, and they were ruled a social organization that sells flashlights and uniforms as a sideline.

Needless to say, if you don&#39;t want to be a Boy scout, don&#39;t be one. Getting angry that their rules are not your rules is kinda dumb. It&#39;s like joining the KKK and getting upset they are racist, or joining the Baptist Church and getting mad that they believe only Christians go to heaven.

It&#39;s a big wide wonderful world out there. There are other organizations that may reflect your views, or at least be more inclusive.
Yeah I agree. I was in cub scouts a while back. We had meetings in a church. On stage there was a boyscout flag, an American flag with a cross right above it. I don&#39;t remember doing any hiking and stuff but do remember learning to shoot.. <_<

[LOTFW]

Yeah I agree. I was in cub scouts a while back. We had meetings in a church. On stage there was a boyscout flag, an American flag with a cross right above it. I don&#39;t remember doing any hiking and stuff but do remember learning to shoot..

I, too, was in Cub Scouts. I got second place for my pinewood derby car that I raced. I&#39;m TOO Cool.

[Angry Young Man]

Were the Pioneers created by Lenin or Stalin?

There should be an oath of loyalty to Lenin and to the international Proletariat.

[TC]

Anything worth being loyal to is degraded by having to demonstrate loyalty to it swearing a public oath.


Anyways I think the homophobia is just part of a large fucked up traditional values system that American scouting tries to indoctrinate kids with: boy scouts of America learn to shoot guns and survive in the wilderness, girl scouts of the united states sell cookies and sew stuff&#33;

In fact, lots of people seem to give the girl scouts of the united states some kind of free pass when they engage in the same type of nationalistic rituals, similarly discriminate against gays and atheists, swear an oath to "respect authority."

[Honggweilo]

The WPB of belgium has a Young Pioneer (http://www.pioniers.madhatter.be/index.htm) group which doesnt have any problem with homosexual, bisexual or transgenders :) (but i don&#39;t think they run into it because the age range in 4 to 15, after the they would be joining the COMAC (http://www.chengetheworld.be))

EDIT: i guess they do :P

[img]http://pioniers.madhatter.be/images/zoom/RWEGSY/IMG_4681.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' class='attach' />