Joining the Military

[Comrada J]

So what do you guys think about this? Keep in mind that joining the "defense" forces is a n attractive option for those from middle-to-lower class families. I'll be enlisting pretty soon out of necessity, as I'll get food & accommodation, cash and some things to put on my resume.

[Great Helmsman]

Terrible idea. You will enforce and protect the interests of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie after being bribed with promises of education and economic security. The reality is that no revolutionary potential exists in first world volunteer armies anyways; energies would be more useful if they were directed at the only real guarantee of economic security: communism.

[tolstoyevski]

you mean joining the military as an officer for a life time or just to fulfill your obligatory service for some months?

if first, It's not understandable for a communist, if you are not living a socialist country.
if second, in some countries, including mine, they torture you for months&years if you do not join the army which steals 15 months from your life. It can be a ground for propaganda and you may learn how to use guns and bombs just in case, and may protect your mental health by avoiding the torture.

[Cencus]

3 of my old school mates joined the army. One died within a year on a training exercise in Germany, one ended up with Gulf War Syndrome, and the other got a medical discharge due to a fucked knee, he gets a decent medical pewnsion tax free.

I would certainly advise against joining the army. Basic training is designed to destroy your personality. You will possibley be sent into situations where your life on the line for the sake of the rich. In some countries you may even be used to oppress the likes of many folks who post here.

[Comrada J]

they torture you for months&years if you do not join the army which steals 15 months from your life. It can be a ground for propaganda and you may learn how to use guns and bombs just in case, and may protect your mental health by avoiding the torture.
Wow well no, I can't say my situation is that bad, but it's still quite dire actually. To be clear I'm enlisting as full-time Soldier in the Australian defense forces. I figured it's stupid, but I'd end up becoming part of the system anyway weather I like it or not. A least with the army I'll have a sufficient wage and the opportunity to pick up some trades/skills to help me find work later on.

[ComradeR]

Comrade I can see where you are coming from but I heavily advise against it. Two of my cousins joined the military out of necessity a couple of years back and it has seriously fucked them up. One joined to become a field surgeon order to get medical schooling as he couldn't afford it any other way, and now after two years in Iraq trying to patch bloody bits and peaces back into human beings he's suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and never wants anything to do with medicine again, he came home a couple of months ago and now despite the fact that he's suffering from PTSD they're shipping him back. My other cousin is a gunner in a Humvee, and you should hear some of the shit he's seen, for example one time as he was on patrol just as a curfew going into affect, a car was speeding down the road towards them and he was ordered to fire, he hesitated and he says he's thankful he did as it turned out to be family just trying to get home before the curfew.
Even if you don't wind up being shipped to a war zone you will still be an enforcer of the bourgeois state, it has always fallen to the army to "keep the peace" during a crisis. If your a soldier in the army you may very well find yourself being forced to violently put down any working class uprising that may happen, even if that situation seems unlikely revolts can happen at the drop of a dime, just remember that.

[hajduk]

Originally posted by Comrada [email protected] 19, 2007 07:20 am
So what do you guys think about this? Keep in mind that joining the "defense" forces is a n attractive option for those from middle-to-lower class families. I'll be enlisting pretty soon out of necessity, as I'll get food & accommodation, cash and some things to put on my resume.
Comrada J what is wrong with you?
in army you must go only if you must defend own life like i do
everything else is just bunch of bullshit trust me

[spartan]

I was thinking about joining the army (British) and you never know it could be good because you can learn skills that would be valuable for us leftists come the revolution and you can try to convert your comrades in the military at the same time! Especially if they joined only because of economic circumstances (It will be much easier for them to hate Capitalish that way). On the other hand what would you do if they shipped you off to war and you did not want to go? If you refuse they will throw your arse in prison for years and then you are fucked big time. Also what if you are called to put down a Proleatarian protest? You would have to potentially harm your own comrades!

[hajduk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 11:40 am
I was thinking about joining the army (British) and you never know it could be good because you can learn skills that would be valuable for us leftists come the revolution and you can try to convert your comrades in the military at the same time! Especially if they joined only because of economic circumstances (It will be much easier for them to hate Capitalish that way). On the other hand what would you do if they shipped you off to war and you did not want to go? If you refuse they will throw your arse in prison for years and then you are fucked big time. Also what if you are called to put down a Proleatarian protest? You would have to potentially harm your own comrades!
WORD

[spartan]

Also you can feed information about the military to your comrades on the outside in other words espionage!

[Comrada J]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 10:40 pm
Also what if you are called to put down a Proleatarian protest? You would have to potentially harm your own comrades!Well I'd tell them to get fucked wouldn't I?

If you refuse they will throw your arse in prison for years and then you are fucked big time.
Uhh doh, so they still do that these days? Well the thing is I'm fucked if I don't join, I'd need to work in retail or fastfood for a multinational corp and share a room, so the difference is to me at least I'll be able to pick up some recognized skills. I'm having family troubles at the moment and will be needing full-time employment very soon. This isn't the US national guard, the chances are I won't be deployed unless I'm more than suitable - Australia only has a few thousand service men overseas.

I don't like the military much either, I was just talking to a couple hick soldiers; authoritarian pricks that somehow thought marching around with a rifle and taking orders to kill people somehow made them better people. :wacko:

When I was younger I use to think the police and the military was really cool...I've woken up now and realized what these institutions are actually used for. Joining the army isn't something I'm very proud of, there's only one other choice I'm prepared to make and that would be enlisting in the French Foreign Legion instead, at least that way I wouldn't be part of a force that directly aids US imperialism (we kiss america's ass here in aus, its sad I know) and the legionaries I met weren't like the stereotypical racist, authoritarian hicks I've come across in the AU and US armies. But still you gotta admit alot of them are just after a fair go.

:unsure:

[Invader Zim]

Well I'd tell them to get fucked wouldn't I?

Which would result in prison time.



Uhh doh, so they still do that these days?

They certainly do, it is called dissertion and that in theory is still a capital crime in the US; not that they would.

EDIT; I wrote UK, that should read US.

[AntifaHooligan]

Originally posted by Comrada [email protected] 19, 2007 07:20 am
So what do you guys think about this? Keep in mind that joining the "defense" forces is a n attractive option for those from middle-to-lower class families. I'll be enlisting pretty soon out of necessity, as I'll get food & accommodation, cash and some things to put on my resume.
I think it depends what country you are living in.

If you are living in the US or some other fucked up imperialist country i wouldnt do it, as this would be the same as fighting for the capitalist regime.

BUT: spartan has a point. You could look at the army as training for the revolution.

[Dr Mindbender]

I thought you were barred from military service in capitalist countries if you are communist?

I doubt you will still be the same effective revolutionary after you come out, they will try and brainwash you into thinking ''beourgious=good''.

[spartan]

US:
I thought you were barred from military service in capitalist countries if you are communist?
Perhaps during the cold war but not now i dont think and how exactly will they know that he is a Communist unless he tells them?

I doubt you will still be the same effective revolutionary after you come out, they will try and brainwash you into thinking ''beourgious=good''.
Unfortunately with Comrada J's circumstances it looks like this is a risk he is going to have to take unless he decides not to join.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 19, 2007 02:16 pm

Well I'd tell them to get fucked wouldn't I?

Which would result in prison time.
If you're lucky. If you pulled that in serious wartime they'd shoot you at sunrise.

My thoughts on joining the military? Don't.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 03:55 pm
US:
I thought you were barred from military service in capitalist countries if you are communist?
Perhaps during the cold war but not now i dont think and how exactly will they know that he is a Communist unless he tells them?

It wont be too difficult if they read these forums. Im sure the Aussie army can get his details from his IP.

[Tower of Bebel]

Joining the army as a revolutionary in peace time is foolish. I joined the reserve last year before I was a revolutionary (and I left it 7 months later).

Yes, there are some nice things you can learn in training. There is almost no better place to learn how to use a gun safely. Medical training was also very intresting.
But when training is done, and when you are a professional soldier, life becomes shit (unless you're not a revolutionary). You're a the means of defense and aggression of the capitalists. All the things you learned are used to kill or hurt innocent life. Medical training is useful to safe your brothers-in-arms and wounded civillians, yet the best remedy is prevention, so stay out of the army.

Becoming a soldier is never agood thing. And do not join to spread your ideas. The only reason why bolshevik revolutionaries were in the army spreading the word was because it was war and they were drafted.
I have a good friend who wants to join the army, he even thought of going to the foreign legion. I find it a waste of opportunities, but it the army has always been part of his dreams. After days of debate I was inable to convince him to do otherwise, because he does not care for what I say. It's a shame. But I hope no revolutionary here will join the army, as you know how to analyse the army and its purpose!

[Comrada J]

In the australian army the last time they seriously jailed and executed enlistees was veitnam. Yes, I heard the stories about drill sgts over training or torturing cadets but this isn't Zimbabwe or the US.

Communism isn't something that they'll be able to beat out of me. I heard about this 'break & remake you' type of training before but it looks pretty straight forward to me, coming from someone relatively fit. Only thing like propaganda I noticed was a compulsory Chaplin service for the first week. Judge for yourself:
http://www.defence.gov.au/army/artc/training.html

[bezdomni]

Drill sergeants are taught to physically and psychologically break you down. They may not turn you into mechanistic drones of imperialism...but they will not send people into war that won't kill for them or die for them.

Why do you want to join the military anyway? Money? You'd make more money at practically any other skilled or semi-skilled job. The military likes to pretend that it gives you a lot of money when you leave...but once you aren't in their ranks anymore they couldn't give a fuck what happens to you.

Lots of ex-GIs in the U.S. are deeply impoverished if not homeless. This usually accompanies unthinkable psychological problems as well.

Job training? Another lie the military uses to suck youth into its ranks. The only work you will be doing in the military is military work. Therefore, the only work you will come out of the military capable of doing is military work.

So unless you plan on like...working in "counter-terrorism" or law enforcement or for a military contracting company, the military is the last place you'd want to get job training.

Really - DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY

[bootleg42]

1. If you willingly join a military of an imperialist nation, then you deserve whatever fate awaits you in battle, especially if you know they're not the "good guy".

2. They are only going to brainwash you. I'll put it in another way: you'll be a someone's *****, you'll be a bird ass herb.

3. I know the military types like to recruit young teens by trying to "thug them out" or to make them feel like a sissy if they didn't join but yo, you'll be more of a sissy for being someone's *****. Also if you want to get in shape, then read up how to get in shape and do it yourself.

4. If you want fighting training, learn boxing, MMA, etc. I been training in that for over a year now and I'll probably fuck most people up easily, including those military herb ass *****es.

[Cencus]

About a third of all homeless males in the U.K. are ex forces. I expect the figures are the same elsewhere. Using the army as a short term option to poverty really is not a great idea, and tbh if you are honest about your politics no army w9ould accept you.

[Dr Mindbender]

Is it free to go to university in Australia? If so you should pound the books, and get yourself some real job options.
I think bootleg's comment about potential 'potential imperialist military recruits' deserving what they get is a bit harsh and too close to home for me. We're not talking about die hard cappies hell bent on taking over the world, we're talking about naive working class kids who see a glamourous lifestyle of quick money, travelling the world and chances to meet women. Before I became politically conscious, I was a thread away from a commission in the Royal Air Force (which I'd probably be in now had I not failed my medical)

If you must join the military for financial reasons, study and become an officer. You will make loads more money that way.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 20, 2007 11:59 am
If you must join the military for financial reasons, study and become an officer. You will make loads more money that way.
No, please! Don't join the officer's corps! The money is'nt worth it (an exception is when soldiers aren't payed correctly).

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Rakunin+September 20, 2007 07:51 pm--> (Rakunin @ September 20, 2007 07:51 pm)
Ulster [email protected] 20, 2007 11:59 am
If you must join the military for financial reasons, study and become an officer. You will make loads more money that way.
No, please! Don't join the officer's corps! The money is'nt worth it (an exception is when soldiers aren't payed correctly). [/b]

I disagree; if you are going to have to join the military, you might as well join the element of the military where you are not bullied, beaten and treated like a piece of shit.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by Invader Zim+September 20, 2007 09:53 pm--> (Invader Zim @ September 20, 2007 09:53 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 07:51 pm

Ulster [email protected] 20, 2007 11:59 am
If you must join the military for financial reasons, study and become an officer. You will make loads more money that way.
No, please! Don't join the officer's corps! The money is'nt worth it (an exception is when soldiers aren't payed correctly).

I disagree; if you are going to have to join the military, you might as well join the element of the military where you are not bullied, beaten and treated like a piece of shit. [/b]
Go where you have to make others feel like a piece of shit?