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Organic Revolution
18th September 2007, 18:03
Jail Solidarity

Jail solidarity may be defined as complete unity of purpose of those incarcerated or imprisoned. The ultimate objective of that unity is for everyone committing the same act to be treated equally and fairly in jail and in sentencing. Refusing citations, bail, fines, community service or probation keeps us together as a community with the potential for collective bargaining to meet that objective.

For jail solidarity to be most effective, the issues surrounding it must be addressed and resolved to the greatest extent possible before reaching jail. Jail authorities are not going to patiently wait for us to reach consensus on solidarity agreements before they start employing "divide and conquer" tactics to weaken our bargaining power.

One divisive tactic used by the prison/legal system is different treatment for certain individuals or groups. These people risking harsher teatment usually include noncooperators, repeat offenders, known organizers, people of color, lesbians and gay men. Discussions of solidarity should always include the issue of how to give these people the extra protection they need.

Coming to agreements about solidarity goals and tactics is a powerful but difficult process. To reach true solidarity with the greatest number of participants, people must have enough information and time to make wise decisions. Solidarity tactics that are employed successfully are empowering. Iii-considered, unfocused uses of solidarity tactics are less successful and drain our energies.

Some of the issues that cause the most controversy around solidarity include interpretation of the nonviolence guidelines, and under what circumstances, if any, we will keep solidarity with those who have previous records, are on probation or have not followed the nonviolence guidelines for that action.

People's motivations for participating in CD will affect their attitudes toward the police and jail guards. Some people are motivated to CD as a protest against the multiple structures in society which work together to create a weapons industry. The prison/judicial system is seen as one of these structures.

The effect of this political viewpoint on behavior in jail can be very dramatic. Often people refuse to cooperate with the authorities at all. Some ways they do this are by going limp during arrest, not abiding by prison regulations, and refusing to participate in arraignment. Some of these acts serve personal moral goals; others are initiated as levers to make the legal system mete out equal and fair sentences to all.

Another group may reflect a different set of motivations and approaches. For some people for example, their fundamental reason for CD stems from an awareness of the destructive power of nuclear weaponry. Their fear and outrage over these weapons may be their only motivation to do civil disobedience. Often these people will stress more of the need to communicate with the human beings behind the helmets, uniforms and roles. They will talk to the police, perhaps befriend the prison guards, and try to use persuasion and dialogue to raise questions about these roles.

The differences between these two approaches will frequently lead to conflict. The stress of the jail experience tends to intensify conflict but by discussing differences beforehand their effect on jail solidarity can be minimized. Conflicts that arise in jail must be acknowledged and deal with at the time or they may become divisive. Conflict is an expression of opposing viewpoints and should not be confused with violence.

Often it is not possible for everyone to agree to stay in jail for solidarity purposes. Sometimes there are people who question the need to struggle inside the jails when the action's primary goal is something else. Some people, because of out.. side responsibilities, cannot afford the time jail solidarity may demand. Others find jail conditions physical. ly or emotionally intolerable. And still others take the political stand that we're more effective back on the streets encouraging other people to take a stand. Whatever the reason for not participating in jail solidarityi individuals should make this information known beforehand since it may affect decisions of the group.

Those who must leave jail are not betraying the group -- there are many ways they can continue supporting those inside: by speaking to the media, to the movement and the public about conditions inside by fulfilling responsibilities for those inside, by carrying messages to family, friends, and employers.

Jail solidarity must never become coercive. In jail, solidarity is our strength and the strength of our solidarity comes from the free agreement of all who take part in it.

hajduk
19th September 2007, 13:24
Originally posted by Organic [email protected] 18, 2007 05:03 pm


Jail solidarity must never become coercive. In jail, solidarity is our strength and the strength of our solidarity comes from the free agreement of all who take part in it.
sorry man but prisoners are criminals (moust of them) and if you bring them to fight with us they will use first chance to fuck you up

this guy is criminal with big C his name is Milorad Ulemek Legija,he do war crimes all over the Bosnia and he is very dangerous man,right know he is in prison in Serbia becouse he organise assasination on president of Serbia Zoran Djindjić who called him to help to bring Slobodan Milosević to HAGUE,after Zoran do that Legia understod that he will not get amnestion from president so he find another criminal to kill Zoran Djindjic
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ez2guFXsKGg&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_mOj4ag24&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ehLBQ5Y2N9M&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rU8evNGMGDk&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MyaFqN3bADU&mode=related&search=

Organic Revolution
19th September 2007, 21:52
Originally posted by hajduk+September 19, 2007 06:24 am--> (hajduk @ September 19, 2007 06:24 am)
Organic [email protected] 18, 2007 05:03 pm


Jail solidarity must never become coercive. In jail, solidarity is our strength and the strength of our solidarity comes from the free agreement of all who take part in it.
sorry man but prisoners are criminals (moust of them) and if you bring them to fight with us they will use first chance to fuck you up

this guy is criminal with big C his name is Milorad Ulemek Legija,he do war crimes all over the Bosnia and he is very dangerous man,right know he is in prison in Serbia becouse he organise assasination on president of Serbia Zoran Djindjić who called him to help to bring Slobodan Milosević to HAGUE,after Zoran do that Legia understod that he will not get amnestion from president so he find another criminal to kill Zoran Djindjic
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ez2guFXsKGg&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_mOj4ag24&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ehLBQ5Y2N9M&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rU8evNGMGDk&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MyaFqN3bADU&mode=related&search= [/b]
There is a difference between war criminals and regular economic criminals, being that 90% of the American population is in jail and prison as a direct result of capitalism. Capitalism has made people so desperate to live, that people turn to murder, robbing, theft, ect. to get by. Prisoners aren't bad (some are) but merely a product of capitalism. Please study this more before making wild accusations, and using a war criminal to back up your argument is absurd in comparison to someone who robs a gas station to get food for there family.

RedAnarchist
19th September 2007, 23:10
Originally posted by Organic Revolution+September 19, 2007 09:52 pm--> (Organic Revolution @ September 19, 2007 09:52 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 06:24 am

Organic [email protected] 18, 2007 05:03 pm


Jail solidarity must never become coercive. In jail, solidarity is our strength and the strength of our solidarity comes from the free agreement of all who take part in it.
sorry man but prisoners are criminals (moust of them) and if you bring them to fight with us they will use first chance to fuck you up

this guy is criminal with big C his name is Milorad Ulemek Legija,he do war crimes all over the Bosnia and he is very dangerous man,right know he is in prison in Serbia becouse he organise assasination on president of Serbia Zoran Djindjić who called him to help to bring Slobodan Milosević to HAGUE,after Zoran do that Legia understod that he will not get amnestion from president so he find another criminal to kill Zoran Djindjic
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ez2guFXsKGg&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_mOj4ag24&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ehLBQ5Y2N9M&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rU8evNGMGDk&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MyaFqN3bADU&mode=related&search=
There is a difference between war criminals and regular economic criminals, being that 90% of the American population is in jail and prison as a direct result of capitalism. Capitalism has made people so desperate to live, that people turn to murder, robbing, theft, ect. to get by. Prisoners aren't bad (some are) but merely a product of capitalism. Please study this more before making wild accusations, and using a war criminal to back up your argument is absurd in comparison to someone who robs a gas station to get food for there family. [/b]
90%?! Do you mean 9%, which even then is an obscenely high number?

Organic Revolution
20th September 2007, 00:00
Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+September 19, 2007 04:10 pm--> (Red_Anarchist @ September 19, 2007 04:10 pm)
Originally posted by Organic [email protected] 19, 2007 09:52 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 06:24 am

Organic [email protected] 18, 2007 05:03 pm


Jail solidarity must never become coercive. In jail, solidarity is our strength and the strength of our solidarity comes from the free agreement of all who take part in it.
sorry man but prisoners are criminals (moust of them) and if you bring them to fight with us they will use first chance to fuck you up

this guy is criminal with big C his name is Milorad Ulemek Legija,he do war crimes all over the Bosnia and he is very dangerous man,right know he is in prison in Serbia becouse he organise assasination on president of Serbia Zoran Djindjić who called him to help to bring Slobodan Milosević to HAGUE,after Zoran do that Legia understod that he will not get amnestion from president so he find another criminal to kill Zoran Djindjic
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ez2guFXsKGg&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_mOj4ag24&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ehLBQ5Y2N9M&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rU8evNGMGDk&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MyaFqN3bADU&mode=related&search=
There is a difference between war criminals and regular economic criminals, being that 90% of the American population is in jail and prison as a direct result of capitalism. Capitalism has made people so desperate to live, that people turn to murder, robbing, theft, ect. to get by. Prisoners aren't bad (some are) but merely a product of capitalism. Please study this more before making wild accusations, and using a war criminal to back up your argument is absurd in comparison to someone who robs a gas station to get food for there family.
90%?! Do you mean 9%, which even then is an obscenely high number? [/b]
No I meant 90% of the crimes committed are economically driven. Excuse me for not being clear enough.

Comrada J
20th September 2007, 09:14
Good post. Yeah, if you really take a closer look at crime only a small minority of criminals are dangerous people, mostly just really unlucky fellas for example Nelson Mandela - served 18 or so years I think!

hajduk
20th September 2007, 12:25
Originally posted by Organic Revolution+September 19, 2007 08:52 pm--> (Organic Revolution @ September 19, 2007 08:52 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 06:24 am

Organic [email protected] 18, 2007 05:03 pm


Jail solidarity must never become coercive. In jail, solidarity is our strength and the strength of our solidarity comes from the free agreement of all who take part in it.
sorry man but prisoners are criminals (moust of them) and if you bring them to fight with us they will use first chance to fuck you up

this guy is criminal with big C his name is Milorad Ulemek Legija,he do war crimes all over the Bosnia and he is very dangerous man,right know he is in prison in Serbia becouse he organise assasination on president of Serbia Zoran Djindjić who called him to help to bring Slobodan Milosević to HAGUE,after Zoran do that Legia understod that he will not get amnestion from president so he find another criminal to kill Zoran Djindjic
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ez2guFXsKGg&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_mOj4ag24&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ehLBQ5Y2N9M&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rU8evNGMGDk&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MyaFqN3bADU&mode=related&search=
There is a difference between war criminals and regular economic criminals, being that 90% of the American population is in jail and prison as a direct result of capitalism. Capitalism has made people so desperate to live, that people turn to murder, robbing, theft, ect. to get by. Prisoners aren't bad (some are) but merely a product of capitalism. Please study this more before making wild accusations, and using a war criminal to back up your argument is absurd in comparison to someone who robs a gas station to get food for there family. [/b]
Legija first was a criminal actualy he was a member of crime clan called Clan from Zemun city in Serbia and that is the one of the moust dangerous crime mob in EX-YU and after, then when agression on Bosnia started Legija become war criminal (YOU SHOULD WATCH THE CLIPS I PUT IT)and by that he is also actualy political prisoner becouse he dont serve his punishment in jail becouse of the war crimes, he serve punishment becouse he organise assasination on Serbian president Zoran Djindjich and trust me if we have occasion to have similar people like Legija in our rows i would not trust to those kind of people,
but i didnt mean that we cant trust to some people in prison but beetwen them you will have traitors of revolution if we start to struggle together with them,
if you think about politician prisoners that is okay but how you will separate god comraders from bad guys?

Dr Mindbender
10th October 2007, 18:12
we must be conscious to exclude those guilty of race hate and homophobic crimes.

Marsella
10th October 2007, 18:52
Don't want to derail the purpose of the post, which I largley agree with, but what of rapists and murderers?

Is rape an 'economic' crime?

Dr Mindbender
10th October 2007, 18:59
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 05:52 pm
Don't want to derail the purpose of the post, which I largley agree with, but what of rapists and murderers?

Is rape an 'economic' crime?
partly i think so, but it depends on the particulars of the offender. I think rape is largely synonomous with social exclusion and alienation, which by in large has socio-economic causes.

Marsella
10th October 2007, 19:23
partly i think so, but it depends on the particulars of the offender. I think rape is largely synonomous with social exclusion and alienation, which by in large has socio-economic causes.

Many reactionary attitudes have their origin in socio-economic causes. Racism for example.

Does it excuse it?

Not in my opinion. What about, what some call, 'threatened' rape, whereby a man threatens violence against a woman. Isn't that fundamentally patriarchial, in that it regards women as man's property?

Hell, isn't rape per se an extremely reactionary crime; I will dominate you because I am stronger and you are weaker.

And what about crimes of passion, in particular the defence of provocation? E.g. a man catches his wife in bed with another man, becomes enraged and kills him. Doesn't that convey the idea that women are the exclusive property of men, and that is up to men to decide whom she can have sex with or not?

Edit: Spelling/grammatical errors.

Dr Mindbender
10th October 2007, 21:24
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 06:23 pm

partly i think so, but it depends on the particulars of the offender. I think rape is largely synonomous with social exclusion and alienation, which by in large has socio-economic causes.

Many reactionary attitudes have their origin in socio-economic causes. Racism for example.

Does it excuse it?




I have 2 questions for you-

A- All things considered, who do think is more likely to rape, a poor man or a rich
man?

B- What should be the reaction of leftists be to the answer of question A?

Racism and 'likliehood to rape' are not the same thing, and usually do not have as many motives. A man of beourgiouse stock is as likely (if not more so bearing in mind his political incentives) to be as racist as a working class man.

Bilan
11th October 2007, 05:19
I'm about to do a Jail Solidarity action down here :)
Not much though.
Writing a letter to a comrade in jail, as well as sending him anarchist literature (upon his request).
Speaking of which, any Sydney based crew who have literature - zines, books, etc - that they'd like to donate, pm me and we'll organize something.

Defender
13th October 2007, 15:17
In America, there are so many prisoners incarcerated on drug crimes alone that it is foolish to just thrown out all prisoners. Everyone knows the legal system is messed up, so why should we let capitalist dominated courts decide for us who is guilty and who is innocent? The true criminals walk the streets (well, drive on them anyway).

As for rape, I live in a university town so you can go downtown to the bars/clubs and find more rape there then you will ever read about in the news because it is a kind of rape that never gets prosecuted.

Bilan
13th October 2007, 15:52
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 12:17 am
In America, there are so many prisoners incarcerated on drug crimes alone that it is foolish to just thrown out all prisoners. Everyone knows the legal system is messed up, so why should we let capitalist dominated courts decide for us who is guilty and who is innocent? The true criminals walk the streets (well, drive on them anyway).

As for rape, I live in a university town so you can go downtown to the bars/clubs and find more rape there then you will ever read about in the news because it is a kind of rape that never gets prosecuted.
I don't completely understand what you're getting at.

Please explain.

Dr Mindbender
13th October 2007, 15:52
Originally posted by Proper Tea is Theft+October 13, 2007 02:52 pm--> (Proper Tea is Theft @ October 13, 2007 02:52 pm)
[email protected] 14, 2007 12:17 am
In America, there are so many prisoners incarcerated on drug crimes alone that it is foolish to just thrown out all prisoners. Everyone knows the legal system is messed up, so why should we let capitalist dominated courts decide for us who is guilty and who is innocent? The true criminals walk the streets (well, drive on them anyway).

As for rape, I live in a university town so you can go downtown to the bars/clubs and find more rape there then you will ever read about in the news because it is a kind of rape that never gets prosecuted.
I don't completely understand what you're getting at.

Please explain. [/b]
its just a guess but i think he's referring to opportunist rapists who spike the girl's drinks.

Bilan
13th October 2007, 16:00
Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+October 14, 2007 12:52 am--> (Ulster Socialist @ October 14, 2007 12:52 am)
Originally posted by Proper Tea is [email protected] 13, 2007 02:52 pm

[email protected] 14, 2007 12:17 am
In America, there are so many prisoners incarcerated on drug crimes alone that it is foolish to just thrown out all prisoners. Everyone knows the legal system is messed up, so why should we let capitalist dominated courts decide for us who is guilty and who is innocent? The true criminals walk the streets (well, drive on them anyway).

As for rape, I live in a university town so you can go downtown to the bars/clubs and find more rape there then you will ever read about in the news because it is a kind of rape that never gets prosecuted.
I don't completely understand what you're getting at.

Please explain.
its just a guess but i think he's referring to opportunist rapists who spike the girl's drinks. [/b]
Oh, I got that. It's just the whole thing is just a ramble.

Defender
13th October 2007, 18:13
Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 13, 2007 09:52 am
its just a guess but i think he's referring to opportunist rapists who spike the girl's drinks.
You can certainly include that but it is also much more. A "drink" contains alcohol even without being "spiked." Sex with those whom are not capable of deciding whether or not they want to have sex with a given person is rape. Sex with someone who is doing so merely due to heavy social pressures is rape (sororities are notorious for this). Etc.

Comrade Rage
13th October 2007, 21:03
Originally posted by Defender+October 13, 2007 12:13 pm--> (Defender @ October 13, 2007 12:13 pm)
Ulster [email protected] 13, 2007 09:52 am
its just a guess but i think he's referring to opportunist rapists who spike the girl's drinks.
You can certainly include that but it is also much more. A "drink" contains alcohol even without being "spiked." Sex with those whom are not capable of deciding whether or not they want to have sex with a given person is rape. Sex with someone who is doing so merely due to heavy social pressures is rape (sororities are notorious for this). Etc. [/b]
It's certainly taking advantage of women, but rape?

Concerning sex because of peer pressure, it may be borderline rape.

Dr Mindbender
14th October 2007, 00:02
Originally posted by COMRADE CRUM+October 13, 2007 08:03 pm--> (COMRADE CRUM @ October 13, 2007 08:03 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 12:13 pm

Ulster [email protected] 13, 2007 09:52 am
its just a guess but i think he's referring to opportunist rapists who spike the girl's drinks.
You can certainly include that but it is also much more. A "drink" contains alcohol even without being "spiked." Sex with those whom are not capable of deciding whether or not they want to have sex with a given person is rape. Sex with someone who is doing so merely due to heavy social pressures is rape (sororities are notorious for this). Etc.
It's certainly taking advantage of women, but rape?

Concerning sex because of peer pressure, it may be borderline rape. [/b]
i dont think peer pressure and social exclusion are the same thing. Peer pressure is something that happens when you are a teenager. The latter is far more sinister.

Cybercide
16th October 2007, 11:15
Originally posted by Defender+October 13, 2007 05:13 pm--> (Defender @ October 13, 2007 05:13 pm)
Ulster [email protected] 13, 2007 09:52 am
its just a guess but i think he's referring to opportunist rapists who spike the girl's drinks.
You can certainly include that but it is also much more. A "drink" contains alcohol even without being "spiked." Sex with those whom are not capable of deciding whether or not they want to have sex with a given person is rape. Sex with someone who is doing so merely due to heavy social pressures is rape (sororities are notorious for this). Etc. [/b]
Do you mean any sex while intoxicated is rape? what if both people are intoxicated, is that rape?

Dr Mindbender
17th October 2007, 00:31
Originally posted by Cybercide+October 16, 2007 10:15 am--> (Cybercide @ October 16, 2007 10:15 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 05:13 pm

Ulster [email protected] 13, 2007 09:52 am
its just a guess but i think he's referring to opportunist rapists who spike the girl's drinks.
You can certainly include that but it is also much more. A "drink" contains alcohol even without being "spiked." Sex with those whom are not capable of deciding whether or not they want to have sex with a given person is rape. Sex with someone who is doing so merely due to heavy social pressures is rape (sororities are notorious for this). Etc.
Do you mean any sex while intoxicated is rape? what if both people are intoxicated, is that rape? [/b]
hmm thats an unfortunate ambiguity. I suppose it depends on the intentions of the concerned individuals and events leading to the hypothetical incident.