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Faux Real
18th September 2007, 04:50
Originally posted by Essay on Gramsci
While Gramsci was in prison, Stalin had consolidated power in the USSR and the Third International. Gramsci saw some disturbing trends in these developments, that he called economism or mechanism. Even in his earlier writings on the Bolshevik Revolution he had attacked those who argued that Russia was not at the correct stage of history to have a socialist revolution. Economism for Gramsci consists of two important fallacies; one, economism separates the sphere of economics from its social and political context and; two, it privileges economics over the social and political spheres in ways that are mechanical. Economism occurs in both radical and mainstream views of economics. In mainstream classical economic theory economism shows up in the view of relationship of the individual to state or society. The individual follows a set of allegedly natural tendencies that are separated from the society. According to this view the individual pursues this natural self-interest. The role of state or society in the creation and support of these tendencies is downplayed or ignored. In Marxist economics, economism can be seen in a rigid adherence to what Gramsci called a mechanical historical materialism. This mechanism is the idea that history will follow a rigid set of stages that are primarily characterized by the economic role one class plays in relationship to another. The social and political nature of the revolutionary transformation of society is deemed as secondary at best.

Gramsci's attack on economism and mechanism recast the relationship between the Marxist conception of the base and superstructure, between the economic component and the social and political components. This was his most fundamental contribution to Marxist thinking. Gramsci has been called the theoretician of the superstructure. For Gramsci, Marxist economism misunderstood the proper relationship of the superstructure to the base. It is in this context that Gramsci's idea of common sense must be understood.

Gramsci believed that the politics emerging from economism and mechanism created an elitist vanguardism and a bureaucratic centralism which he opposed. For Gramsci, the modern political party, which he referred to as the modern Prince, needed to have a dialectical relationship between the leadership and the masses, not a top-down vanguardism. It was the separation of the leadership and intellectuals from the masses that lay at the root of bureaucratic centralism. Gramsci wanted a politics where the modern political party was the vehicle for a dialectical dialogue between the common sense of the masses and the philosophy of organic intellectuals, who would be connected organically to their class, the working-class.

With the premises of economism and mechanism as defined above, is it safe to say that should the revolutionary leadership in a vanguard make sure to not stray into economism nor mechanism that it could stay legitimate and in control of the proletariat?

Also, are economism and mechanism the only two main problems, that if not avoided, "dooms" a vanguard from it's inception? Besides a bureaucratic party of course...

Die Neue Zeit
18th September 2007, 04:56
^^^ What are the similarities and differences between Gramsci's and Lenin's attacks on Economism?

"In control of the proletariat?" That already sounds WAY too elitist, don&#39;t you think? <_<


For Gramsci, the modern political party, which he referred to as the modern Prince, needed to have a dialectical relationship between the leadership and the masses, not a top-down vanguardism

The only "dialectical" thing that should exist is "the masses" (again, you&#39;re using a populist bourgeois term here, not "the workers") fully understanding the "dialectic" of spontaneity and organization as the historical justification of the "vanguard party."

Faux Real
18th September 2007, 05:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 08:56 pm
^^^ What are the similarities and differences between Gramsci&#39;s and Lenin&#39;s attacks on Economism?

"In control of the proletariat?" That sounds WAY too elitist, don&#39;t you think? <_<
I haven&#39;t read on Lenin&#39;s attacks, but I&#39;m guessing Gramsci was alive to see the transformation of the Soviet Union compared to Lenin. If Lenin made the same criticisms why did he implement the NEP?

Oh and yeah, the vanguard itself, not any actual people&#33; I should&#39;ve rephrased that as "to make sure the vanguard remains in the hands of the proletariat and away from the tyranny of the leadership."


The only "dialectical" thing that should exist is "the masses" fully understanding the "dialectic" of spontaneity and organization as the historical justification of the "vanguard party."
I see, thanks for that&#33;

(again, you&#39;re using a populist bourgeois term here, not "the workers")
This isn&#39;t my essay, but I don&#39;t understand how "the masses" is a bourgeois term.

Die Neue Zeit
18th September 2007, 05:12
Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 09:02 pm
I haven&#39;t read on Lenin&#39;s attacks, but I&#39;m guessing Gramsci was alive to see the transformation of the Soviet Union compared to Lenin. If Lenin made the same criticisms why did he implement the NEP?
1) I added some material to my post above regarding "dialectics."

2) So you haven&#39;t read What Is To Be Done? yet? There&#39;s also another thread earlier regarding economism (probably in this forum). Some poster asked why we shouldn&#39;t focus on merely "economic" initiatives, and then I pointed out how the emergence credit unions has resulted in no progress towards socialism whatsoever. Severian then said he worked in one.

Marsella
18th September 2007, 05:49
With the premises of economism and mechanism as defined above, is it safe to say that should the revolutionary leadership in a vanguard make sure to not stray into economism nor mechanism that it could stay legitimate and in control of the proletariat?

I would say the vanguard is bankrupt from the start. Vanguards are the political response to an autocratic feudal society or an undeveloped capitalist state.

The vanguardists say: the conditions are not right, let us make the conditions right. But of course, once they start to make the cake they can&#39;t help but eating it.

As for the rest of the article it is bordering on unintelligable.

BobKKKindle$
18th September 2007, 07:20
If Lenin made the same criticisms why did he implement the NEP?

Not for ideological reasons; he felt the temporary re-introduction of market forces was the most effective way to rejuvinate the soviet economy.


I would say the vanguard is bankrupt from the start. Vanguards are the political response to an autocratic feudal society or an undeveloped capitalist state.

Oh dear.

Vanguards are present in all political movements, as the social group (in the context of socialism, the proletariat) is never a homogenous mass - there will always be key individuals who have an advanced knowledge of the position of workers in capitalist society and what must be done to reach the desired objective of socialism. Lenin&#39;s theory of the vangaurd party recognizes the role of this advanced group and calls for the organisation of a formal political party. Lenin did not &#39;invent&#39; or even advocate the vanguard - he merely recognized what is a reality is every revolutionary struggle&#33;

When anarchists engage in political action, they also have the function of a &#39;vanguard&#39; - they are engaging with the broader movement in order to encourage the development of class consciousness and revolutionary agitation.


The vanguardists say: the conditions are not right, let us make the conditions right. But of course, once they start to make the cake they can&#39;t help but eating it.

What do you mean? Lenin did not view Russia&#39;s material conditions as an obstacle to socialism; he organised a revolution with the expectation that Russia would recieve the help of other countries following a subsequent world revolution and this would be able to develop.