Regarding National Anarchists in Australia

[NewEast]

Hi mates.

I was at APEC not along ago and got wind that some organisation that called itself the New Right- National Anarchists- were also attending. Now I didn't see these people at the rally, I was too busy protesting to be bothered with such trivia, but having looked around a bit and seen everyone suffering in their jocks about this mob, I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Regarding this National Anarchism rubbish.

As usual, the kids at Stormfront have been jumping up and down, gleefully Hailing the New Dawn, declaring victory over Leftism forever, predicting the complete demoralisation and collapse of the Australian Left and generally behaving like bloody idiots. Meanwhile, the Left have been jumping up and down in rage, whining and raving on about how "oi! They can't do that!' and generally behaving like bloody idiots. In this regard, I feel the New Right is onto something- there are parallels between the Left and Right.

The Nazis are being clever this time. They have (finally) realised that there is no way in hell that they are going to gain any support whatsoever by Seig Hailing, waving swastikas about and clamping their hands over their ears and singing Hail the New Dawn at the top of their lungs whenever the holocaust is mentioned. So they are taking a new approach and ranting and raving on about the environment and globalisation and this and that and so on. They have changed their image, they look like us now. No more boots and braces and aggressive faces, they’ve moved on to hoodies and patches. And while they still haven’t stopped their ridiculous notions about Jews and Homosexuals, to the outsider, they pull this masquerade off quite well.

They are on a high- they reckon this works- they got a lot of media attention and we’ve done nothing to help. If the whole Left had simply ignored them, they would have been tremendously demoralised. Instead we shone our collective spotlight on them and demonstrated our own insecurity- something we have got to lose. We are correct, we have sound theory, we have good people, energy, a proud tradition of struggle and what happens when a group of people pretend to be us? We get all hot about the collar and get that mad gleam in our eyes, furious that this bunch of boneheads could be so arrogant! …when in fact we should simply be laughing at them!

They are not anarchists, they are pretending to be us so, as they have admitted on their headquarters Stormfront(!), they can recruit Anarchists and Resistance members! That’s all there is to it. You want to take these bastards out? Don’t go to their meetings looking for a fight, don’t threaten to bash them or stalk them, don’t give them the pleasure. Do: challenge them to a public debate about Anarchism. Do: invite them along to your own functions- turn the tables. Debate with them their ideology and reveal it for the sham that it is.

And also, be prepared for when they once again get defeated, get pissed off and return to wearing boots and braces and try to start fights again. Don't let them photograph you.

Why are we so worried about these morons? They hide their totalitarianism and racism behind disguises and empty rhetoric. We have nothing to hide whatsoever- we stand for freedom.

[NewEast]

Give this a read in the meantime-

http://www.greenanarchy.org/index.php?acti...l&writingId=150 (http://www.greenanarchy.org/index.php?action=viewwritingdetail&writingId=150)

[bombeverything]

National Anarchists are fascists and there is no way that I would ever have anything to do with them. What "parallels" are there between the left and the right? Take your 'green anarchy' shit elsewhere. This is the exact problem that I have with ideologies such as green anarchy. You seem to be suggesting that we should engage in a dialogue with fascists. Challenging them to a debate legitimises their politics. We have nothing in common and I am happy to stick with the traditional approach.

P.S: I think this person might be a fascist, however what this recent development makes clear (at least to me) is the reasons why green anarchism is a problem. If we can't define our politics we have a big problem.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by BE+--> (BE)This is the exact problem that I have with ideologies such as green anarchy. You seem to be suggesting that we should engage in a dialogue with fascists.[/b]


BE
If we can't define our politics we have a big problem.


I don't agree with NE's suggestion of a dialogue with the fash, but what is the link between that suggestion and green anarchy?

In fact, the article NE linked (from green anarchy.org!) is a well-written repudiation of national anarchism and attempts to co-opt anarchist ideas (which to me is the opposite of 'failing to define our politics').

Also, whilst i'm naturally suspicious of a new member such as NE choosing to weigh-in on the NA question in the context of recent events - i dont think throwing around accusations of 'fascist!' are necessary. If NE is a fascist, we will discover this soon enough - the fash/NA are after all morons... who are usually incapable of grasping revleftist theory to a convincing degree.

[ghostofeureka]

I don't know anything about the green anarchy group but that article seems to be a fair enough criticism of the new right. Although isn't Nick griffin the name of the leader of the BNP in the UK? The green anarchy groups based in the USA so it could just be someone with the same name. I can't imagine the BNP's Nick Griffin would associate with groups that had the word green or anarchy in their name :lol:

I agree with the others debating them only legitimatizes them, best to just ignore them. I'm sure they realize how out numbered they are if they where to use violence against the left or anyone for that matter.

Considering who's involved with that group i'm sure they'll implode soon enough anyway.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 03:19 pm
Considering who's involved with that group i'm sure they'll implode soon enough anyway.
Exactly, the clowns behind this anarchist drag performance are the 'master' architects of probably a dozen or so similar vehicles for white nationalism; they all failed.

[bombeverything]

I don't agree with NE's suggestion of a dialogue with the fash, but what is the link between that suggestion and green anarchy?

I assumed that the person who was writing it either ascribed to green anarchy, as they gave a link to their website, or was trying to use it as a way of supporting or justifying their suggestion of having a dialogue with fascists. If it was the latter, which I also assume, I think that some of the ideas associated with green anarchy are problematic in that they argue that there is a stage where extreme right ideas somehow ‘cross over’ with ours. I personally find that certain ideas associated with green anarchy (i.e. ‘post-left’ anarchy, lifestylism, primitivism, mysticism, etc.. please correct me if I am wrong) make opposing groups such as this more difficult.

I don’t feel that a rejection the traditional left (I am not talking about Marxism here but Anarchism) does us any favours, because it is not that different from suggesting that we are 'neither left nor right', bla bla bla (like the national anarchists). Perhaps I am making generalizations. I am not suggesting that all people who ascribe to green anarchism are primmies for instance, but I find the ideology problematic in that I fear that these ideas can ultimately play into the wrong hands. Maybe this whole thing might end up being a good thing as groups such as these will have to clarify their views more, and be a bit more proactive in defining their politics – that’s fine.


In fact, the article NE linked (from green anarchy.org!) is a well-written repudiation of national anarchism and attempts to co-opt anarchist ideas (which to me is the opposite of 'failing to define our politics')

I guess your right in that the article did a good job of trying to clarify these differences. However, this recent development has made me think about this all a bit more. It seems like the national anarchists were able to change the appearance of their ideology quite well, in a way that would make it look quite similar to certain strands of 'anarchism', such as primitivism.

What I guess I am trying to say is that I fear that ideologies such as anarcho-primitivism can be used by fascists to promote extreme right-wing ideas among anarchists. Maybe I am over eggagerating. There are times where some green anarchy ideas could be confused with fascist ideas. For instance some 'post-left' anarchists are apparently against ideology in general, which in my view means it is not a rational ideology. This gives it something in common with fascism does it not? Also, the glorification of prehistory held by primitivists is very similar to the decentralised communities proposed by the national anarchists. I don't know, all I am suggesting is that certain ideas often associated with 'anarchism' are questionable and should be rejected. I think my use of terminology might have been a problem.


Also, whilst i'm naturally suspicious of a new member such as NE choosing to weigh-in on the NA question in the context of recent events - i dont think throwing around accusations of 'fascist!' are necessary. If NE is a fascist, we will discover this soon enough - the fash/NA are after all morons... who are usually incapable of grasping revleftist theory to a convincing degree.

Ok, point taken. But not all Nazis are stupid. Some of them are smart (as in they can add up). Ignoring them won't make the problem go away. This is not to say that they won't just disappear, actually this group might, but at the same time I don't think we should just sit back and ignore them.

[guerilla E]

We all know that national-anarchists are a fascist front trying to use our culture to snag people discovering their orientation in the political world.

It is correct that the days of skin-heads walking proud and tall are over, thanks to social stigmas, but national anarchism is dangerous because it is attempting to trick people into a political idealogy that is in fact a front for basic fascist idealogy. National Anarchism, in its definition, is contradictory and their website is nothing more than pseudo-intellectual crap written to give the image that they've thought hard and strong about the subject.
Recruitment tool.
As for dialogue, if anything these guys need to get smashed the hardest - people who join nationalist anarchist groups are trying to associate their beliefs with the popular anarchist movements or leftist militants; dialogue on any level will strenghten this association as it will seem like we tolerate their beliefs.
People, the national anarchist movement is a friggin fascist scam - the more aggressive we are in putting it down, publicly, the better assured that a stigma is placed upon this form of fascist recruitment.

[Red Scare]

national anarchist is just like national socialist in that they are not real anarchists!!!!

[Comrade Rage]

I downloaded their webpage and managed to read it. These guys create a false paradigm with their arguments. First they think that the left is somehow against unique cultural identities. I don't think so. I'm in favor of all cultures existing equally, side-by-side without interference.
Secondly they repeat this crapola that the left somehow died with the collapse of the USSR. BOLLOCKS! We've never been stronger.

[Iron]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 27, 2007 08:34 pm
national anarchist is just like national socialist in that they are not real anarchists!!!!
National anarchists ... State loving anarchists :blink: :blink: :wacko:

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 27, 2007 10:47 pm
I downloaded their webpage and managed to read it. These guys create a false paradigm with their arguments. First they think that the left is somehow against unique cultural identities. I don't think so. I'm in favor of all cultures existing equally, side-by-side without interference.

Well, exactly, I have absolutely no problem with cultures existing next to each other, and sharing the best qualities. As it happens I quite like old english pubs, music and whatever. But so what? If you don't want to listen to it, or prefer trendy bars. Go to them instead! :lol: I also like going to clubs and raves, middle eastern music and Chinese food!

I suppose I am a multiculturalist, but that doesnt mean I want all the cultures to blend into one, as the far right propose. I want to be able to experience and share cultures/

The exchange of customs, and ideas has been going on since the start recorded history, and it isn't going to stop now. The exchange of spices, between Europe and the middle east, and even the introduction of water systems and heating from Italy, have all been positive steps forward for humanity. If the racists had their way we'd be stuck in mud huts, isolated in our little enclaves.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by NewEast
Do: challenge them to a public debate about Anarchism. Do: invite them along to your own functions- turn the tables. Debate with them their ideology and reveal it for the sham that it is.

These people would have communists and (real) anarchists exterminated if they ever got to power. Why would you legitimise their organisations and ideas by debating with them? No platform! The best way to hurt them is to attack their support base. Debate and talk with joe public before they do.


EDIT: Looks like they're active in the UK and states too, found this website, (replace hxxp:// with http://)
hxxp://www.folkandfaith.com/articles/anarchy.shtml

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by William Everhard
The exchange of customs, and ideas has been going on since the start recorded history, and it isn't going to stop now. The exchange of spices, between Europe and the middle east, and even the introduction of water systems and heating from Italy, have all been positive steps forward for humanity. If the racists had their way we'd be stuck in mud huts, isolated in our little enclaves.

I'm glad you touched on that. I wonder how many of these racist fucks use other cultures inventions every day. For instance
Traffic Lights
Peanut Butter
The number 0
The Blood Bank
Noodles
Modern numbers

All of these are inventions that were shared with us either by other cultures, or by ethnic minorities in America. If one of these racist-nuts actually wanted to follow his ideology logically, he would live a lifestyle that even the most hardcore primmie would shy away from. :lol:

[Dr Mindbender]

ha ha. Noodles and peanut butter. Thats the thing i love about being a lefty, you can eat whatever you like without being a hypocrite! :lol:

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 29, 2007 06:27 pm
All of these are inventions that were shared with us either by other cultures, or by ethnic minorities in America
Well, to be fair, I have read far-right articles on returning to a pre-industrial age and praise of the Ludites.

Among other things we have borrowed from other cultures, Language, the arch, gunpowder, and basic hygene, and nano-technology :lol:

To be honest, there's no such thing as a British culture anymore anyway, it's been pretty much destroyed by 100 years of capitalism. I know that culture is always evolving, and cannot really be defined, but such changes should be brought about by the free association of humans, not by big business. If there's one thing I hate, it's monoculture, and that is essentially where we are going, with global capitalism. England used to be "the garden of england" now its a giant tescos carpark!

Again, not that I oppose cheap readily available food, or parking space, but it needs to be locally controlled for there to be regional autonomy. And I thinks it's great when areas can keep a unique feel, culture whatever, so long as it's not in iscolation, or xenephobic.