al8
17th September 2007, 23:01
I highly recoment it. Here's the lecture (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3884451176644991836&q=Believing+the+Unbelievable&total=629&start=0&num=30&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) on googlevideo.
Some good stuff -- excerpts:
Originally posted by From the transcript+--> (From the transcript) I think religion is the most divisive and dangerous ideology that we have ever produced. And what is more it is the only ideology that has systematically protected from criticism both from within and without. It remains taboo, you can criticize someone's beliefs really on any subject but it remains taboo to criticize their beliefs about God. And I think we are paying an extraordinary price for maintaining this taboo
[/b]
It is often imagined that atheists are in principle closed to spiritual experience. But the truth is that atheists – there’s nothing that prevents an atheist from experiencing self-transcending love or ecstasy or rapture or awe. In fact, there is nothing that prevents an atheist from going into a cave for a year or a decade and practicing meditation like a proper mystic. What atheists don’t tend to do is make unjustified and unjustifiable claims about the cosmos on the basis of those experiences.
But there is no question that disciplines like meditation and prayer can have a profound effect upon the human mind. But do the positive experiences of say Christian mystics over the ages suggest that Jesus is the sole savior of humanity? Not even remotely because Christians would be having these experiences, but so have Buddhists and Muslims and even atheists. So there is a deeper reality here and it makes a mockery of religious denominations.
The fact is that whenever human beings make an honest effort to get at the truth, they reliably transcend the accidents of their birth and upbringing. We -- just as -- it would be absurd to speak about Christian physics, though the Christians invented physics, and it would be absurd to speak about Muslim algebra, though the Muslims invented algebra. It will one day be absurd to speak about Christian or Muslim ethics or spirituality.
And whatever is true about our circumstance, in ethical and spiritual terms, is discoverable now and can be articulated without offending all that we've come to understand about the nature of the universe, and certainly without making divisive claims about the unique sanctity of any book or pegging these most beautiful features of our lives to rumors of ancient miracles.
Althoug it has it's shortcomming especially what he says with regards to 'communism'. And more genarally his estamates of how society operates -- its good through-and-through.
Here's what he says:
from the transcript
Finally, there's this notion that atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in the 20th century. Now this is actually, it is quite amazing to me, this is the most frequent objection I come across, so I think I should deal with it briefly. It is amazing how many people think that the crimes of Hitler and Pol Pot and Mao were the result of atheism. The truth is that this is a total misconstrual of what went on in those societies, and
of the psychological and social forces that allow people to follow their dear leader over the brink.
The problem with Fascism and communism was not
that they were too critical of religion. The problem is
they're too much like religions; these are utterly
dogmatic systems of thought.
Here he both equates the soviet etempt at socialism (or was it party despotism?) with full-fledged communism and equates communism to fascism (although they're diametrical opposites). He holds an all to common misconception in this regard. A very irritating misconception to boot. But what else he says is well thought out and very much to the point.
Here's the transcript (http://www.aifestival.org/library/transcript/believingtheunbelievable.pdf) of the lecture, for those who'd like get direct qoutations for comment purposes more easely.
Some good stuff -- excerpts:
Originally posted by From the transcript+--> (From the transcript) I think religion is the most divisive and dangerous ideology that we have ever produced. And what is more it is the only ideology that has systematically protected from criticism both from within and without. It remains taboo, you can criticize someone's beliefs really on any subject but it remains taboo to criticize their beliefs about God. And I think we are paying an extraordinary price for maintaining this taboo
[/b]
It is often imagined that atheists are in principle closed to spiritual experience. But the truth is that atheists – there’s nothing that prevents an atheist from experiencing self-transcending love or ecstasy or rapture or awe. In fact, there is nothing that prevents an atheist from going into a cave for a year or a decade and practicing meditation like a proper mystic. What atheists don’t tend to do is make unjustified and unjustifiable claims about the cosmos on the basis of those experiences.
But there is no question that disciplines like meditation and prayer can have a profound effect upon the human mind. But do the positive experiences of say Christian mystics over the ages suggest that Jesus is the sole savior of humanity? Not even remotely because Christians would be having these experiences, but so have Buddhists and Muslims and even atheists. So there is a deeper reality here and it makes a mockery of religious denominations.
The fact is that whenever human beings make an honest effort to get at the truth, they reliably transcend the accidents of their birth and upbringing. We -- just as -- it would be absurd to speak about Christian physics, though the Christians invented physics, and it would be absurd to speak about Muslim algebra, though the Muslims invented algebra. It will one day be absurd to speak about Christian or Muslim ethics or spirituality.
And whatever is true about our circumstance, in ethical and spiritual terms, is discoverable now and can be articulated without offending all that we've come to understand about the nature of the universe, and certainly without making divisive claims about the unique sanctity of any book or pegging these most beautiful features of our lives to rumors of ancient miracles.
Althoug it has it's shortcomming especially what he says with regards to 'communism'. And more genarally his estamates of how society operates -- its good through-and-through.
Here's what he says:
from the transcript
Finally, there's this notion that atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in the 20th century. Now this is actually, it is quite amazing to me, this is the most frequent objection I come across, so I think I should deal with it briefly. It is amazing how many people think that the crimes of Hitler and Pol Pot and Mao were the result of atheism. The truth is that this is a total misconstrual of what went on in those societies, and
of the psychological and social forces that allow people to follow their dear leader over the brink.
The problem with Fascism and communism was not
that they were too critical of religion. The problem is
they're too much like religions; these are utterly
dogmatic systems of thought.
Here he both equates the soviet etempt at socialism (or was it party despotism?) with full-fledged communism and equates communism to fascism (although they're diametrical opposites). He holds an all to common misconception in this regard. A very irritating misconception to boot. But what else he says is well thought out and very much to the point.
Here's the transcript (http://www.aifestival.org/library/transcript/believingtheunbelievable.pdf) of the lecture, for those who'd like get direct qoutations for comment purposes more easely.