Convincing a non-Socialist

[Eleftherios]

I have recently come across a lot of intellectuals that have agreed with me when I said that capitalism is a reactionary and opressive system and that it needs to go, but they disagree with me when I say that socialism is the only way forward. Since they have associated the system in the Soviet Union with real socialism, they argue that neither capitalism nor socialism are good and progressive systems. How can I convince them that there is no other viable alternative and that only socialism is capable of moving society forward?

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 06:00 pm
I have recently come across a lot of intellectuals that have agreed with me when I said that capitalism is a reactionary and opressive system and that it needs to go, but they disagree with me when I say that socialism is the only way forward. Since they have associated the system in the Soviet Union with real socialism, they argue that neither capitalism nor socialism are good and progressive systems. How can I convince them that there is no other viable alternative and that only socialism is capable of moving society forward?
They believe that Soviet Union ended up being socialist???

Try this:

Make them define socialism/communism. If they're intellectuals, they'll define it in it's real definition. Then make them create the argument, step by step, of how it's was socialism. Do not let them go until they actually create such an argument. If they can define socialism/communism correctly, and if they can describe post-Lenin Soviet Union correctly, then FORCE them to put the two together and then it'll be hard for them to say that the Soviet Union was socialist but it was more of a state capitalist model.

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by bootleg42+September 16, 2007 06:22 pm--> (bootleg42 @ September 16, 2007 06:22 pm)
[email protected] 16, 2007 06:00 pm
I have recently come across a lot of intellectuals that have agreed with me when I said that capitalism is a reactionary and opressive system and that it needs to go, but they disagree with me when I say that socialism is the only way forward. Since they have associated the system in the Soviet Union with real socialism, they argue that neither capitalism nor socialism are good and progressive systems. How can I convince them that there is no other viable alternative and that only socialism is capable of moving society forward?
They believe that Soviet Union ended up being socialist???

Try this:

Make them define socialism/communism. If they're intellectuals, they'll define it in it's real definition. Then make them create the argument, step by step, of how it's was socialism. Do not let them go until they actually create such an argument. If they can define socialism/communism correctly, and if they can describe post-Lenin Soviet Union correctly, then FORCE them to put the two together and then it'll be hard for them to say that the Soviet Union was socialist but it was more of a state capitalist model. [/b]
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try it. But I also think some of these intellectuals, even if they have been convinced that socialism is not that bad after all, need to understand that socialism is the only way forward, and that no other "third way" is possible.

[bootleg42]

WHOA!!!! Did you say third way???? They could be fascists.............

[Eleftherios]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm pretty sure they're not fascists. After all, they do hold many leftist sentiments, and so far there is nothing to suggest that they are right wingers.

[spartan]

Are these intellectuals extreme Libertarians?

[Eleftherios]

No, they are left-leaning, but I'd say they are probably a little confused and they do not hold a concrete political philosophy.

[The-Spark]

Maybe if you bring up the Spanish Revolution and the Paris Commune and how they worked fine.

[Rawthentic]

You're going to have to talk about the reality of the socialist experiences in Russia, China, Cuba, etc., and how they brought political power to the masses as well as raise the living standards dramatically. Also explain how its not about recreating those experiences, but making it much better next time around.

You're just going to have to keep arguing and debating.

[RedStaredRevolution]

Originally posted by A[email protected] 16, 2007 02:00 pm
I have recently come across a lot of intellectuals that have agreed with me when I said that capitalism is a reactionary and opressive system and that it needs to go, but they disagree with me when I say that socialism is the only way forward. Since they have associated the system in the Soviet Union with real socialism, they argue that neither capitalism nor socialism are good and progressive systems. How can I convince them that there is no other viable alternative and that only socialism is capable of moving society forward?
im having the same problem right now actually. however my knowledge of every comeback to cappie arguments is still developing :blush: which is making my argument suffer. not only that but they use the shity argument that i dont know what im talking about because im in high school :rolleyes:

[RedKnight]

There are different types of socialism. Not all systems would be like the Communist bloc countries. If they do not support capitalism or socialism, what system do they support then, if any? I mean are they social democrats, anarchists, or distributists?

[apathy]

my question may be a bit out of the subject but i realised that i dont know exactly the difference between socialism and communism, anyone care to explain ???

[blazeofglory]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 06:00 pm
I have recently come across a lot of intellectuals that have agreed with me when I said that capitalism is a reactionary and opressive system and that it needs to go, but they disagree with me when I say that socialism is the only way forward. Since they have associated the system in the Soviet Union with real socialism, they argue that neither capitalism nor socialism are good and progressive systems. How can I convince them that there is no other viable alternative and that only socialism is capable of moving society forward?
I have the same problem!!! I Believe some comrades here ought to help us

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:55 pm
There are different types of socialism. Not all systems would be like the Communist bloc countries. If they do not support capitalism or socialism, what system do they support then, if any? I mean are they social democrats, anarchists, or distributists?
They are nothing, basically, partly because they don't fully believe in any of them or because they don't like to "label" themselves (whatever the hell that means). They are arguing that even though socialism may be a good system, it does not necessarily have to come after capitalism. I keep telling them that the choice is between socialism or barbarism, but they just don't accept that, even though they know capitalism will eventually come to an end.


I have the same problem!!!

im having the same problem right now actually.

Really? Then maybe the problem might be more common than I previously thought.

[Janus]

They are arguing that even though socialism may be a good system, it does not necessarily have to come after capitalism.
Socialism didn't become a clear, concrete ideology until the rise of capitalism. There were various historical societies that had socialist/communist practices but a true socialist society requires a degree of technological progress and industrialization which will be provided by capitalism.