Education for children

[spartan]

Would education for children in a self sufficient commune in a future Anarchist society be completly voluntary (in other words law would not require attendance at school like it does now in our Capitalist society)? I think it should be the childs choice whether they want to be educated or not but of course then we will have the problem of kids who deciding not to have an education have got no skills or find it very hard to learn them for a trade and thus cannot contribute alot to the commune (and if alot of kids dont have an education then some self sufficient communes might not survive at all and maybe our whole society will be in jeopardy?). Should we be uncompromising when it comes to education? as i think our society will only survive if every one is willing to contribute to the commune by working and the only real way to work is if you know what you are doing by being educated and also by being politically indoctrinated to know how our society works. How can this problem be solved in our future Utopia comrades?

[dannthraxxx]

well, we probably will never have a future "utopia." even now it's not really required that children get an education. there are millions of kids across the world that dont receive an education. in most cases education should be a priviledge. education as it's "learned" or taught today or whatever isn't really education, it's more of an assembly line. we're just getting socialized and organized, school basically helps us find our "place in society." all the high school cliques, all the drama, it follows after highschool, whether people want to acknowledge that or not. "real" education comes more through life lessons than any school teachings. if someone needs to be trained for a job or to learn something in order to accomplish a job or whatever, i dont know, then they can learn on the job, on the job is the best training anyway. i think it should be the individual choice as to what type of education they pursue. everythings subjective and i'm bad high. so this may be insane right now.

[Labor Shall Rule]

I hope education is never made voluntary.

We live in a society where you are encouraged to be a consumer rather than a citizen. The psychological fabric of a child's mind depends on his material circumstances, which would be a component of deciding whether the child is more enthusiastic to learn or not. It would be a negative freedom to allow children, who are mentally and physically naive to the world that surrounds them, to avoid leading a life as a literate, productive citizen. Education provides conditioning into their social surroundings, and when we seek a more rational, democratic society based on worker's control, they will need to be instructed from early on to what their role is. They should not be instructed that they are 'free' to be junkies or slobs, but that they are apart of a society that has seeked order, equality, stability, and justice rather than the anarchy of capitalist production.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

We start with the premise everyone, regardless of their age, sex, religion, politicial idealogy, gender preference, and disability has the right to vote...

[AGITprop]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 04:32 pm
Would education for children in a self sufficient commune in a future Anarchist society be completly voluntary (in other words law would not require attendance at school like it does now in our Capitalist society)? I think it should be the childs choice whether they want to be educated or not but of course then we will have the problem of kids who deciding not to have an education have got no skills or find it very hard to learn them for a trade and thus cannot contribute alot to the commune (and if alot of kids dont have an education then some self sufficient communes might not survive at all and maybe our whole society will be in jeopardy?). Should we be uncompromising when it comes to education? as i think our society will only survive if every one is willing to contribute to the commune by working and the only real way to work is if you know what you are doing by being educated and also by being politically indoctrinated to know how our society works. How can this problem be solved in our future Utopia comrades?


lol giving children the choice to choose not to be educated is the most ridiculous idea i've heard today!( no offense) Every child on the planet would choose against it. It is the responsibility of the parent up to a certain age to enforce education. Then when the child is sufficiently mature he can make a decision. In Canada we can drop out of school at the age of 16. At that age, a person has developed enough to be able to make such a dramatic decision. What we need to do is start education earlier, maybe four or even three. At those ages the mind is very malleable and much can be learned. Ever notice how a child so young can pick up languages so easily?

[Janus]

education and schooling (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=52689&hl=education)

There's a difference between wanting to go to school and wanting to learn. Many kids don't like the former because of the negative associations that they may have with school but most children do want to learn and are very curious. As such, education should be centered around students themselves rather than the institutionalized practices that are in place now.

[Raúl Duke]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 08:25 pm
education and schooling (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=52689&hl=education)

There's a difference between wanting to go to school and wanting to learn. Many kids don't like the former because of the negative associations that they may have with school but most children do want to learn and are very curious. As such, education should be centered around students themselves rather than the institutionalized practices that are in place now.
QFT

I think in a post-revolution society there would be undoubtedly many "experiments" centered on education.

Schools, as they currently are, have to be replaced/extensively reformed.

[Yardstick]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 01:25 am
education and schooling (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=52689&hl=education)

There's a difference between wanting to go to school and wanting to learn. Many kids don't like the former because of the negative associations that they may have with school but most children do want to learn and are very curious. As such, education should be centered around students themselves rather than the institutionalized practices that are in place now.
I agree!

The reason children enjoy playing is it is a form of learning. Kids hate school, it is designed to maintain the status quo and supress imagination. Children on the other hand would love to learn because learning is fun.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Ender+September 25, 2007 04:24 pm--> (Ender @ September 25, 2007 04:24 pm)
[email protected] 16, 2007 04:32 pm
Would education for children in a self sufficient commune in a future Anarchist society be completly voluntary (in other words law would not require attendance at school like it does now in our Capitalist society)? I think it should be the childs choice whether they want to be educated or not but of course then we will have the problem of kids who deciding not to have an education have got no skills or find it very hard to learn them for a trade and thus cannot contribute alot to the commune (and if alot of kids dont have an education then some self sufficient communes might not survive at all and maybe our whole society will be in jeopardy?). Should we be uncompromising when it comes to education? as i think our society will only survive if every one is willing to contribute to the commune by working and the only real way to work is if you know what you are doing by being educated and also by being politically indoctrinated to know how our society works. How can this problem be solved in our future Utopia comrades?


lol giving children the choice to choose not to be educated is the most ridiculous idea i've heard today!( no offense) Every child on the planet would choose against it. It is the responsibility of the parent up to a certain age to enforce education. Then when the child is sufficiently mature he can make a decision. In Canada we can drop out of school at the age of 16. At that age, a person has developed enough to be able to make such a dramatic decision. What we need to do is start education earlier, maybe four or even three. At those ages the mind is very malleable and much can be learned. Ever notice how a child so young can pick up languages so easily? [/b]
You are mistaking school for education. In our capitalist society they are drastically different, regardless of what your teachers tell you. For instance, I love learning but I hate school. I know several other people who are the same way.

[praxicoide]

For Paulo Freire, socialist education should not be hierarchical. Students are not piggy banks where knowledge is deposited.


the oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors, or “sub-oppressors.” The very structure of their thought has been conditioned by the contradictions of the concrete, existential situation by which they were shaped. Their ideal is to be men; but for them, to be men is to be oppressors. [...]As long as they live in the duality in which to be is to be like, and to be like is to be like the oppressor, this contribution [to their liberation] is impossible.


In the banking concept of education, knowledge is a gift bestowed by those who consider themselves knowledgeable upon those whom they consider to know nothing. Projecting an absolute ignorance onto others, a characteristic of the ideology of oppression, negates education and knowledge as processes of inquiry. The teacher presents himself to his students as their necessary opposite; by considering their ignorance absolute, he justifies his own existence. The students, alienated like the slave in the Hegelian dialectic, accept their ignorance as justifying the teacher’s existence — but, unlike the slave, they never discover that they educate the teacher.

The raison d'etre of libertarian education, on the other hand, lies in its drive towards reconciliation. Education must begin with the solution of the teacher-student contradiction, by reconciling the poles of the contradiction so that both are simultaneously teachers and students.

Pedagogy of the Oppressed. (http://www.marxists.org/subject/education/freire/pedagogy/index.htm)

[AGITprop]

Originally posted by FoB+September 30, 2007 04:49 pm--> (FoB @ September 30, 2007 04:49 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 04:24 pm

[email protected] 16, 2007 04:32 pm
Would education for children in a self sufficient commune in a future Anarchist society be completly voluntary (in other words law would not require attendance at school like it does now in our Capitalist society)? I think it should be the childs choice whether they want to be educated or not but of course then we will have the problem of kids who deciding not to have an education have got no skills or find it very hard to learn them for a trade and thus cannot contribute alot to the commune (and if alot of kids dont have an education then some self sufficient communes might not survive at all and maybe our whole society will be in jeopardy?). Should we be uncompromising when it comes to education? as i think our society will only survive if every one is willing to contribute to the commune by working and the only real way to work is if you know what you are doing by being educated and also by being politically indoctrinated to know how our society works. How can this problem be solved in our future Utopia comrades?


lol giving children the choice to choose not to be educated is the most ridiculous idea i've heard today!( no offense) Every child on the planet would choose against it. It is the responsibility of the parent up to a certain age to enforce education. Then when the child is sufficiently mature he can make a decision. In Canada we can drop out of school at the age of 16. At that age, a person has developed enough to be able to make such a dramatic decision. What we need to do is start education earlier, maybe four or even three. At those ages the mind is very malleable and much can be learned. Ever notice how a child so young can pick up languages so easily?
You are mistaking school for education. In our capitalist society they are drastically different, regardless of what your teachers tell you. For instance, I love learning but I hate school. I know several other people who are the same way. [/b]
i agree..i actually wrote an essay titled " I will not let my schooling interfere with my education" for my english placement for my CEGEP