Log in

View Full Version : Contridictions in the Bible - can you give examples



apathy maybe
28th July 2003, 11:08
I need some examples of contridictions in the Bible (New Testement). They need to be simple.

Deniz Gezmis
28th July 2003, 11:22
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-...+contradictions (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=bible+contradictions)

Invader Zim
28th July 2003, 13:46
Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."

My favourate its so Ironic and hypocritical.

redstar2000
28th July 2003, 13:50
This is the site you want...

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Enjoy!

:cool:

canikickit
28th July 2003, 23:43
"the first shall be last and the last shall be first"

Moskitto
29th July 2003, 19:39
that is the most difficult website to read being as I'm colour blind.

Comrade Gorley
30th July 2003, 17:25
Bible psuedo-contradictions are incredibly easy to refute. Actually mistaking them for contradictions requires a complete ignorance of text, context, and original language. Here's a good page refuting "contradictions":

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-cont...ons-refuted.htm (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-contradictions-refuted.htm)

After finishing my current website, I intend to make one refuting the entire "Skeptics Annotated Bible". Wait for it. B)

truthaddict11
30th July 2003, 23:50
Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 30 2003, 11:25 AM
Bible psuedo-contradictions are incredibly easy to refute. Actually mistaking them for contradictions requires a complete ignorance of text, context, and original language. Here's a good page refuting "contradictions":

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-cont...ons-refuted.htm (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-contradictions-refuted.htm)

After finishing my current website, I intend to make one refuting the entire "Skeptics Annotated Bible". Wait for it. B)
if they are so easy to refute then do it

Comrade Gorley
31st July 2003, 01:25
Because, my dear truthaddict, there are over 500 "contradictions" in the Bible. I sincerely doubt the largely non-religious members of this board give THAT much of a shit. Seriously, that's a fuck of a lot of bandwith. Besides, I'll give you the URL for the site once it's up.

I promise. :D

truthaddict11
31st July 2003, 02:03
youre right I dont give shit about it but you said they are easy to refute then refute some of them

Monks Aflame
31st July 2003, 07:56
well... it WAS written by men, not God. That argument can be used. Of course, [atheist] can then say that God guided their hands in writing, that's the official story right? But then, [christian] shoots back with many people changed the Bible with no good intention. The King James Version was edited by, you guessed it, King James. He removed any part he didn't like, supposedly

Beccie
31st July 2003, 12:50
In Luke (chap 2) Jesus was laid in a manger there is no mention of Kings coming to visit him or his parents departure to Egypt (As in Matthew Chapter 2) rather he is visited by shepherds.

The Beatitudes in Matthew occur on a mount (Chapter 5) in Luke they occur on a plain (Chapter 6)

In Matthew the Genealogy of Jesus is traced back to Abraham (Chapter 1) in Luke the Genealogy of Jesus is traced back to Adam (Chapter 3)

The last words of Jesus in Matthew (27) and Mark (15) are "My God My God why have you forsaken me?" In Luke (23) they are "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit" and In John (19) Jesus' last words are "It is finished."

They are small differences but they tell us a lot about the purpose and audience of each Gospel writer.

Comrade Gorley
31st July 2003, 16:06
In Luke (chap 2) Jesus was laid in a manger there is no mention of Kings coming to visit him or his parents departure to Egypt (As in Matthew Chapter 2) rather he is visited by shepherds.

Nativity scenes usually depict the visit of the Magi as occuring while Jesus was laid in the manger, but actually, look at the different scenarios:

4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
18 And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.

While they were in the stable, they were visited by shepherds. They were only visiting, and they DID return to Nazareth. Now look at the story of the Magi:

Matthew 2
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

So obviously this took place later on. Considering how far away the Magi lived (in "the East"), it would take them a fair chunk of time for them to arrive in Bethlehem. At that point, the census was over, and people were returning home, so there was now "room in the inn", or, more likely, at a cottage of some sort.


The Beatitudes in Matthew occur on a mount (Chapter 5) in Luke they occur on a plain (Chapter 6).

Most people think that simply because Jesus delivered two long sermons, they MUST have been the same one. Yes, they did open similiarly:

Matthew 5
1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Luke 6
17 And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people out of all Judaea and Jerusalem, and from the sea coast of Tyre and Sidon, which came to hear him, and to be healed of their diseases;
18 And they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed.
19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

However, you'll find that they continue differently:

Matthew 5
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Luke 6
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

He repeated the same sentiments twice. Why? Because they're good sayings, and good ways to start a sermon.

In Matthew the Genealogy of Jesus is traced back to Abraham (Chapter 1) in Luke the Genealogy of Jesus is traced back to Adam (Chapter 3)

Many people claim that these geneaologies contradict eachother. However, serious historians admit that Matthew's geneaology was that of Yosef, and Luke's was of Miryam. Matthew wrote to the Jews, who were only considered with the father's geneaology, as far as inheritance went. Luke wrote to the Greeks/Romans (Theophilus), who believed in acknowledging one's real lineage. Yoseph was a descendant of King Solomon, thus proving Yashuah had a royal lineage, but Miryam was also descended from David through Nathan. This way, Yashuah could be descended from the royal family, thus fulfilling the Messianic prophecies, while still not having an earthly father.

The last words of Jesus in Matthew (27) and Mark (15) are "My God My God why have you forsaken me?" In Luke (23) they are "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit" and In John (19) Jesus' last words are "It is finished."

No, they don't. These are the last recorded words in the Gospels, but none claim these were his last words. Let's look at each of them:

Matthew 27
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mark 15
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

So we see that, shortly before his death, he cried that phrase out, and than later on gave up the ghost. Why do Matthew and Mark record this? Because Yashuah was quoting his ancestor, King David. "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabbachthani?" is the first verse of Psalm 22, which is full of Messianic prophecies (verse 7 "All they that see me laugh me to scorn" verse 16 "they have pierced my hands and my feet", verse 17 "I may tell all my bones" etc).

What about Luke and John?

Luke 23
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

John 19
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So let's look at what happened, using all the Gospels. Yashua, on the cross, cried out "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabbachthani!" Those nearby thought he was crying to the prophet Elias (Elijah). He was then given vinegar. (We gather this from Matthew and Mark.) RIGHT after he received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished" (we get this from John). He then went on to cry out in a loud voice (we gather this from Matthew and Mark) and said "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" (we get this from Luke).

It's as simple as that. :)

Moskitto
31st July 2003, 16:33
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2003, 12:50 PM
In Luke (chap 2) Jesus was laid in a manger there is no mention of Kings coming to visit him or his parents departure to Egypt (As in Matthew Chapter 2) rather he is visited by shepherds.

The Beatitudes in Matthew occur on a mount (Chapter 5) in Luke they occur on a plain (Chapter 6)

In Matthew the Genealogy of Jesus is traced back to Abraham (Chapter 1) in Luke the Genealogy of Jesus is traced back to Adam (Chapter 3)

The last words of Jesus in Matthew (27) and Mark (15) are "My God My God why have you forsaken me?" In Luke (23) they are "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit" and In John (19) Jesus' last words are "It is finished."

They are small differences but they tell us a lot about the purpose and audience of each Gospel writer.
The thing with gospels is that they were written by different people who saw/heard different things and thought different things were more noteworthy, like if we all wrote a che-lives gospel we would all write different things.

Comrade Gorley
31st July 2003, 16:35
That too. They were from different backgrounds, of varying education, and they all saw Yashuah from a different perspective. If all these people came forward with identical stories, how believable would they be?

Rastafari
31st July 2003, 18:34
I live my life by Numbers 6:5, you foul fucks!
:)

Moskitto
31st July 2003, 19:51
Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 31 2003, 04:35 PM
That too. They were from different backgrounds, of varying education, and they all saw Yashuah from a different perspective. If all these people came forward with identical stories, how believable would they be?
They wouldn't be very believable if they all gave the same story, witnesses in court don't give the same story, they give different stories because they see and remember different things, the gospels probably differed a lot more, but when they were translated first into latin, then into other languages, they were most likely editted to make them a bit more similar.

Comrade Gorley
31st July 2003, 20:22
Exactly.

Moskitto
31st July 2003, 22:25
skeptics annotated bible is quite good in that it gives all the quotes in their original context (ie, with the other text in the passages), unlike other bible contradictions sites (biblecontradictions.com i think is one) which just give quotes all compressed onto one page. although it does look very much more aimed at the philosophical atheist rather than the rebellious atheist.

Beccie
1st August 2003, 00:46
I’m well aware of the fact that the Gospels of the New Testament are written by different people at different time with different sources/purposes/audiences/theological slants etc. That is exactly the reason why differences in the wording of stories/structure and material unique to a particular gospel occur. The differences I have mentioned I have studied in biblical studies to find out things about the author of the text.

I was not trying to attack the credibility of the text I was simply giving apathy maybe a few examples of simple contradictions. I did not feel that an in depth analysis of each one was necessary.

For example Matthew has a Jewish audience and he feels it is of particular importance to liken Jesus to Moses. In the Infancy narrative Jesus is visited by three kings (to emphasise the importance of his birth) and he is taken to Egypt by his parents to escape King Herod who wishes to chop of the heads of every first born male (sound familiar?)

Luke is more concerned with depicting Jesus with the outsider. That is a possible reason why a birth of someone so important did not occur in the centre of the city of David rather on the margins. The first people to visit Jesus are people of low social status (Shepherds). This reinforces a theme that becomes so important in Luke’s gospel latter on.

apathy maybe
1st August 2003, 01:02
Thanks everyone. A lot of those websites many of the contridictions where rubbish but those that people have posted are good and yet quite well refuted as well. I think we can say that there are no contridictions in the Bible because it was written by so many different people and any contridictions are just to do with intepretation and translation. Of cause I may be wrong but I don't mind :)

Dr. Rosenpenis
1st August 2003, 01:43
Just because the bible has fewer contradictions, does not mean i will accept it any better. I am not an atheist because the bible has contradiction, I am an atheist because Christianity is a childish farce.