Homosexuality - What is it?

[The Feral Underclass]

I am not sure whether this is supposed to be in here, but nay mind...I am gay, I have been for as long as I can remember, i mean I have never fancied women. So what I want to know is, what causes people to be attracted to the same sex. Is it genetic? social conditions? Could it be a medical defect? Could it be cured? What do people think.

[Rastafari]

I think they are unsure what "causes" this "disease" to hear some people talk, I think it relates to Hormone Levels in the Womb.
I'd be proud, though, mate. You already have good reason to revolt!

[redstar2000]

Moderator Mode:

The topic really belongs in the new Science & Nature Forum which we will soon have.

Meanwhile, I'll leave it here.

And I suspect it's genetic.

:cool:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I think it has to do with ones upbringing.

[Invader Zim]

I doubt its any individual of the above, I would imagine that it is a combernation of all of the factors listed by Libertarian Commie, with the exception of medical defect. I also doubt it could be "cured", and I doubt anybody would want to "cure" it, unless they were some reactionary fool with a foolish agenda against gay people. You may as well try and "cure" people from having blond hair etc.

I would imagine that it is a combernation of upbringing, genetics and current enviroment. I doubt any one individual "cause" is soley the reason for homosexuality. For example most people who have a doting mother and attend a single sex school are not gay. As for genetics, I am sure that not all people who are gay share any genetic coding which hetrosexual people do not have and viseversa.


(Edited by AK47 at 12:23 am on July 28, 2003)

[apathy maybe]

I think it relates to hormone levels in the womb, most gender related things do.
Up bringing may also have a small impact. But like inteligence, most pyschologists don't agree to what level environment and biology cause either.

[Kez]

arent we all female in the womb, then become male, i thought male gays got the genitals, but mentally they were women?

i dunno why your bothered, u got the trendiest clubs and bars, and its trendy to be gay. I'll probably get a gay haircut to get some nookie on holiday ;)

[elijahcraig]

I think everyone has tendencies towards men and women sexually. I am bisexual, though I like women a lot more, and I think everyone is bisexual (whether it is noticable or not). I like the id, ego, and superego explanation.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Quote: from elijahcraig on 7:02 pm on July 27, 2003
I think everyone has tendencies towards men and women sexually. I am bisexual, though I like women a lot more, and I think everyone is bisexual (whether it is noticable or not). I like the id, ego, and superego explanation.

someone get the lunatic freudian out here...now!!

just kidding, comrade.

and no, we are not all female in the womb, that is a huge missconception.

(Edited by Victorcommie at 8:35 pm on July 27, 2003)

[Blackberry]

Quote: from apathy maybe on 12:19 am on July 28, 2003
I think it relates to hormone levels in the womb, most gender related things do.
Up bringing may also have a small impact. But like inteligence, most pyschologists don't agree to what level environment and biology cause either.


I think you're pretty spot on there.

Here (http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html) is an excellent FAQ about sexual orientation and homosexuality.

[American Kid]

Could it be a medical defect? Could it be cured?

Ugh, what an awful thing to say! Not to give you shit. I'm not saying you're an awful guy. But Jeez, give yourself a break, brah!

If you're gay, you're gay. Don't give in an inch to the backwards-thinking that it could be possible (or should be) to cure it. Fuck that shit.

You're gay. I'm not. *high-five*

-ak

[Monks Aflame]

I was under the impression that it was completely genetic, and when you're born, you're either gay or not. But I can accept that enviroment and society has a lot to do with it. I feel really bad for the bisexuals, just caught in the middle of a freak show (not meant offensively) of harassment and dogmatic bullshit. I've met a few gay people and they've all been really normal and very cool.

Did you all hear about the protestors during the gay pride parade in San Francisco? Called Gay Shame, they're gays that are protesting the corporate sponsership of the gay pride parade and criticizing the parade for not addressing real problems, like gay homelessness. http://sf.indymedia.org

[The Feral Underclass]

Quote: from American Kid on 3:59 am on July 28, 2003
Could it be a medical defect? Could it be cured?

Ugh, what an awful thing to say! Not to give you shit. I'm not saying you're an awful guy. But Jeez, give yourself a break, brah!

If you're gay, you're gay. Don't give in an inch to the backwards-thinking that it could be possible (or should be) to cure it. Fuck that shit.

You're gay. I'm not. *high-five*

-ak


Having read what people have put I think I agree with the hormone levels theory. It seems the most logical explantion.

However, Since no one actually knows what causes homosexuality, I dont think sujesting that homosexuality could be cured or is a medical defect an awful thing to say at all. I agree, for someone to blantantly say that gay people are deformed and should be cured is a reactionary "backward thinking" oppinion to have. But until it has actually been proved, it is stupid to dismiss a theory because it is an oppion which is reactionary.

Another reason why I bring up this particular point, is because if it is curable, this poses a big question to gay peope. I personally do not think that given the choice I would change. I enjoy having sex with men. but on the other said, the ability to procreate in a conventional way is something I would like to do. Adopting is all fine and well, but creating your own baby is something that every human should do, but in a relationship with another man, the creation of a baby would be one sided. It would not be a joint effort (the creating part) with someone you where in love with...

and what does your gay, im not, high five actually mean?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Hormone levels in the womb is not really a substantial argument for facilitating homosexuality as men and women possess both estrogen and testosterone in in various amounts. Hormones may affect the appearence of an individual but really have no control over the sexual orientation of an individual.

Science has yet to find the actual "reason" for sexual orientation. Ass the human genome has been mapped in it's entirety and no specific "gene" has been found to control sexual preference it is still a mystery. Some would argue that it's "an extra chromosome" however it has been found that homosexuals are as normal as anyone genetically.

Through observation it can easily be assessed that environmental factors play a very limited role in the developement of sexual preference within homosexuals. Leading us to believe that it's definitely genetic. How or why this is has yet to be determined. I'm personally from the school of "who cares who you bang" as it is has no direct connections with "moral fibre" or intelligence as the right wing would like to believe.

It's a mystery that has no relevance to anything worthwile as anyone who judges a person on whom they actually enjoy shagging is quite simply an oaf that is not worth the cost of the ammunition I will use to send them to the cemetary.

[Severian]

It should be noted that other species also have same-sex sex. Whether they have variations in individual preference, I don't know.

Seems to me, though, that while the different forms of sexual activity may be natural, the categories homosexual, heterosexual, etc., are socially constructed, and relatively recently in history at that.

[Moskitto]

I doubt it's genetic. if it was genetic there would be families with multiple gay members and others with no gay members. It's more likely that everyone is bisexual but by nature and nurture (read nature through nurture) people are more likely to accept their bisexuality, or simply not be attracted to anyone of the same/opposite sex and be either homosexual or heterosexual.

And I get pretty pissed off with my brother saying "My problem with that gay Bishop isn't that he's gay, it's that he hasn't repented" and it's like, IF YOUR NATURAL INSTINCT IS TO HAVE SEX WITH PEOPLE OF THE SAME SEX THEN IT CAN'T BE A SIN, GOD DOESN'T CREATE PEOPLE TO SIN.

[YKTMX]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 12:43 am on July 28, 2003
arent we all female in the womb, then become male, i thought male gays got the genitals, but mentally they were women?

i dunno why your bothered, u got the trendiest clubs and bars, and its trendy to be gay. I'll probably get a gay haircut to get some nookie on holiday ;)


Just tell girls you're a member of the Labour Party, that ought to get them going.

[MikeyBoy]

GOD DOESN'T CREATE PEOPLE TO SIN.

You're right about god not creating people :lol:

[Monks Aflame]

The theory with genetics, is that it is a genetic mutation. A little switch up with a few nucleotides, somewhere. So, genetically speaking, homosexuals and bisexuals are mutated. Or many heterosexuals are the real mutants, and the few homosexuals are the last of a dying strain of a super-class of humans. Whatever.

[Beccie]

Could it be a medical defect? Could it be cured?

I agree with AK, that it is an awful thing to say. Are you suggesting that homosexuality is some kind of disease that needs a cure? Do you think that heterosexuality is normal and that bisexuals and homosexuals are in need of correction? I am not sure why people are attracted to the same sex, it is probably the combination of a number of factors, but I doubt that it is something that needs to be "cured".

"Heterosexuality is not normal, it is just common" - the (international) noise conspiracy

[Moskitto]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2003, 10:50 PM

GOD DOESN'T CREATE PEOPLE TO SIN.

You're right about god not creating people :lol:
while I respect your opinion, this response would be ineffective against my brother because it simply diverts the conversation from something I do care about (gay rights) to something of less importance (the existance of god.) It struck me as being more effective to argue with his religious views than against them.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2003, 11:58 AM
Could it be a medical defect? Could it be cured?

I agree with AK, that it is an awful thing to say. Are you suggesting that homosexuality is some kind of disease that needs a cure? Do you think that heterosexuality is normal and that bisexuals and homosexuals are in need of correction? I am not sure why people are attracted to the same sex, it is probably the combination of a number of factors, but I doubt that it is something that needs to be "cured".

"Heterosexuality is not normal, it is just common" - the (international) noise conspiracy
Once again, the moral left jump on their high horse. No, if you had actually read what I put properly, you would see that in fact I did not say that homosexuality was a medical defact, and no I did not say that it should be cured. And I never sujested, ever, that hetrosexuality was normal, and that gay people or bisexual people needed to be "corrected". Your not paying attention.

What I did say is, and let me take an extract from your message I doubt that it is something that needs to be "cured". exactly that. You doubt. You do not know for sure what homosexuality is, and indeed have no idea whether or not it could be cured. Your merely presuming something because it isn't a nice thing. What would you say if it could be cured? :ph34r:

[Politrickian]

I believe that there is no such thing as Homosexuality/Bisexuality/Hetereosexuality. Every person is attracted to whatever pleases him, whether this be man or woman. Some like women more, others like men, some like blondes others like brunettes, etc, etc.

It is not a disease.

[Beccie]

In your original post you put forward some questions and asked us what we thought;

Is it genetic? social conditions? Could it be a medical defect? Could it be cured? What do people think.


I was merely telling you what I thought. That is the use of the words medical defect and cure could be offensive to gay people who feel comfortable with the way they are. Those words suggest that homosexuality is a disease that needs to be eradicated. Even if there is a “cure” that word should not be used.

Good post, Politrickian, I agree.

[Don't Change Your Name]

I think it's just every person's preference, what they feel and like. It's not a disease, it could be considered a disorder but there's a lot of gay people so i think we should start to consider it almost normal.

[Moskitto]

I don't think we should think of sexual orientation in terms of "normal" and "abnormal", "different" is a better term because it is a term based on ones perspective.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 02:07 AM
In your original post you put forward some questions and asked us what we thought;

Is it genetic? social conditions? Could it be a medical defect? Could it be cured? What do people think.


I was merely telling you what I thought. That is the use of the words medical defect and cure could be offensive to gay people who feel comfortable with the way they are. Those words suggest that homosexuality is a disease that needs to be eradicated. Even if there is a “cure” that word should not be used.

Good post, Politrickian, I agree.
What is the matter with you...stop being so fucking sensitive. I am gay, and I dont find it offensive at all, and if people are offended by me sujesting something that could be true then they can go fuck themselves, because it's ridiculous.

You may have been telling me what you thought but what you think is wrong. You have no idea whether or not it is a medical defect, and indeed could be cured. What if it is and could be cured?

I cant be arsed with all these fluffy wuffy liberal twats who get offended if you look at them funny. There just words, and I think we have a lot more to deal with in regards to gay oppression than someone saying something which could be true...Jesus H Christ, what is the matter with you people! :ph34r:

[Danton]

I'm no scientist but the chromasone theory seems likley, does that then imply that gay men are in fact women geneticly?
Also since the question of social conditions was raised - is it not a fact that most homosexuals are the product of broken marriges and lacked a positive male role model in their formative years? I dont know I'm just floating a theory please dont jump on me....

If so I don't consider these factors defects or deficiencies, as much as I dont consider women defficient or inferior due to lack of X or Y chromasone? whichever...




"The skeptic, the analytical sniper, the eclcetic dissector of doctrines and psychoanalyst of dogmas". - Ernesto "Che" Guevara

[Beccie]

So.... you just want to here what people think as long as they are right in what they say. Maybe you should change your name from libertarian commie to fascist. Why bother putting forward a question if you are not going to read people's replies with and open mind. Who are you to say that I am wrong?

[Vinny Rafarino]

There is one very specific reason that the HGE community does not have more information on homosexuality being absolutely genetic in origin or being completely environmental in origin.

No one in that field gives a fuck all about it.



The only people who care are nazi's, the ultra religious right and some children who take early 1900's Soviet paranioa as law. The rest of the world has better things to do than worry about "the gay agenda" like that tosser Ghost Wanker loves to say or about how one becomes gay. What does it matter? The fact remains this;

IT DOESN'T!

[Moskitto]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 12:38 PM
I'm no scientist but the chromasone theory seems likley, does that then imply that gay men are in fact women geneticly?
Also since the question of social conditions was raised - is it not a fact that most homosexuals are the product of broken marriges and lacked a positive male role model in their formative years? I dont know I'm just floating a theory please dont jump on me....

If so I don't consider these factors defects or deficiencies, as much as I dont consider women defficient or inferior due to lack of X or Y chromasone? whichever...




"The skeptic, the analytical sniper, the eclcetic dissector of doctrines and psychoanalyst of dogmas". - Ernesto "Che" Guevara
I don't think it is likely, there is known to be a condition where people are one gender and have the chromasomes of the other gender, they do tend to be homosexual, but most homosexuals are not like that. It is also something so obvious they would have found it when they discovered the X and Y chromasomes. A genetic mutation would be more likely because it would not neccesarily have been discovered by now, but it doesn't explain why there aren't clusters of families with lots of gay people and other families with no gay people, like with genetic disorders. I think it's more a matter of you simply are gay or you simply are straight and the reason is irrelevant.

[dannie]

why does one listen to techno music and the other to folk?
why does one skate and the other goes running?

i guess it's just somehting that fit's you the best, where you feel youself good with

[FabFabian]

I think human sexuality is so complex, that I don't know if it can be boiled down to genetics vs environment. Therapists are very weary of someone in their teens declaring being homosexual, not from just a social alienation view, but that in one's teens you are still at a stage of evolving, finding your own voice, who you are.

If we look at genetics, that can backed by the existence of homosexuality in the animal world. Also, loads of gay people grew up in predominantly heterosexual households. Gay people grow up with the knowledge that heterosexuality is the norm, yet they still can't programme themselves to that disposition.

I don't know much about male experience, but from some first hand knowledge with women, there seem to be an awful lot who id themselves as lesbian who have had nothing but sexual abuse history in regards to men. They see men as the devil incarnate and find sanctuary in female relationships.

I think it will be a long time before science will be able to pin point what the equation for homosexuality is. When they do, I don't think society should run on the bandwagon of cure or normalcy either. Gay people have contributed a lot to the world's history and culture and without their influence I think the world would be a sadder place. At the end of the day, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is noone's business.

To paraphrase Trudeau, the gov't has no place in the bedrooms of the nation. Amen!

[Nick Yves]

People don't choose to be heterosexual, and they don't choose to be homosexual. They just happen to turn out that way, I say it has to do with upbringing. Heterosexual youth don't choose to like women or men, they just DO. Same goes for homsexual youth.

I don't see what the big deal is, I dream of a world where it's such a common thing that it barely goes noted unless to do with a relationship or something.

[Urban Rubble]

All I want to say is this, whoever said "Everyone is at least a little bisexual" is a moron.