Nepal Maoists to Leave Gov and Start Rebellion

[Red Heretic]

Maoists threaten to quit govt in 7 days

Kantipur Report

KATHMANDU, Sept 10 -

The Maoists have warned that they will quit the government there is no agreement on their 22-point demands within a week.

They informed that they will launch the agitation on September 18 if all the parties do not agree on the demands including declaration of a republic to meet the pre-requisites for the Constituent Assembly elections.

“We have asked for a new agreement. If that does not take place then we have ready ourselves to launch an agitation from September 18 by quitting the government,” Maoist leader Dr Baburam Bhattarai told Kantipur.

The Maoist leadership has already directed the cadres of all regions, state committees, fronts, and fraternal organizations to gear up for the agitation during the meetings and trainings.

The Maoists are demanding a special session of the interim parliament must be convened to declare a republic for “true” elections.

However, Dr Bhattarai said that they are holding discussions with the other parties to form a new basis for (the alliance).

“We will try our best to forge a new agreement,” he said.

On the decision of the Nepali Congress central working committee to opt for a federal democratic republic, the Maoist leader said that the model must be discussed.

At a time when the environment for the elections is being created from all quarters, the Maoists have not given priority to the polls. They are insisting on the 22-point “pre-requisites” which they had put forth last month.

They demands include resolution of the problem in the Terai, an agreement with all sides (through a broader round table conference), action against those who killed the Maoist cadres in Terai and compensation to the families of the “disappeared” people and those who died in course of the armed insurgency.

“There must be an agreement on the 22 points that we have put forth for a true Constituent Assembly elections,” Dr Bhattarai said. “Otherwise, the elections would be like the ones conducted by the King in the Panchayat style.”

[Tekun]

The funny thing is, what did they expect when they put down their weapons and moved into tha government?
This sort of cat and mouse game has been going on for decades throughout the world between guerilla forces and different governments

What are the other 22 demands?
And when they refer to the Terai problem, what exactly are they referring to? I must of missed it on tha BBC or they haven't reported on it very much

[Red Heretic]

Tekun, I don't think we really have a way of knowing. I've heard some people argue that they knew this would happen all along. Revolution is very complex and doesn't proceed in a straight line.

[Red Heretic]

Looks like the Maoists have moved forward the deadline from the 18th to the 16th:



Maoists may quit govt by September 16, says Prachanda

Kantipur Report

KATHMANDU, Sept 10 - CPN-Maoist Chairman Prachanda reiterated Monday his party's warning to quit the government by September 16 if the government does not fulfill their “22-point pre-requisites”.

In a training programme organized by Maoist' sister wing Newa State Committee in Lalitpur district today, Prachanda accused the seven parties of being indifferent to their demand for the requisites and said that the republic was essential.

Admitting that the environment was being created in favour of the republic, Prachanda, however, said that there is no condition to be assured of it at this juncture.

He also said that there was no alternative to struggle if the pre-requisites for the elections are not fulfilled.

Maoist leaders Dr Baburam Bhattarai, Ram Bahadur Thapa alias Badal and Barsha Maan Pun alias Ananta also asked the cadres to be ready for the announcement of republic, sources said.

Around 300 Maoist cadres and leaders were present during the training programme.

[Red Heretic]

4 more days!

If I understand correctly now, September 16th is the deadline for the Nepali state, and the 18th is the day the rebellion will be launched. I also found this article interesting.

Be Ready for Fresh Revolt: Prachanda

Nepalgunj, Sep 9/ CPN-Maoist chairman Prachanda on Saturday directed party cadres to be ready for another revolution. He was addressing a workshop of the Tharuwan Rajya Samiti (TRS) in Bhurigaun of Bardiya. Some 500 key TRS leaders and cadres including district presidents, secretaries, committee members and office-bearers of TRS’ sister organisations are attending the workshop that will continue tomorrow also.
Prachanda said revolution was necessary as the government had still not laid the foundation for the constituent assembly election. “The CA can’ be set up under pressure. Therefore, be ready for another revolution,” he said.
Prachanda said that within 10 days the Maoists would try and arrive at a fresh agreement with the seven political parties. Failing this, the Maoists will start their revolution from September 18. He added that unless the political aims were fulfilled, there was no point setting up the constituent assembly.
Prachanda also said that the CPN-Maoist is preparing to convene a round-table conference of all left forces on September 11, adding that efforts will be made to form a new struggle committee of the Maoists and the left forces to jointly launch the revolution.
Speaking to the media at the Nepalgunj airport before returning to Kathmandu, Prachanda iterated that the possibility of the CA poll taking place was getting remote. “The government has not laid the foundation for the CA polls. Therefore, I have directed my party to be ready for another revolution,” he said. He said that atmosphere was not conducive for holding the CA polls, adding that holding the election in such a scenario would be fatal for the nation.
The CA polls can be held only after the government concedes the 22-point charter of demands put forward by his party, said Prachanda. “The seven parties should work harder to create an atmosphere for the polls. Holding the polls in a situation like this would be a farce. The CA polls should be truly historic to be memorable,” he said.
Ruling out the necessity of deploying the army during the polls, Prachanda said that if security arrangements were tightened that would suffice. He insisted that the Maoist People’s Liberation Army also should be deployed during the polls if the Nepal Army is.
Prachanda said the CPN-Maoist was firm in its stand that the nation should be declared a republic before the CA polls. Referring to the recent blasts in Kathmandu, he said that it proved that the atmosphere was not right for the polls. He lauded the Nepali Congress party’s decision to go for a federal democratic republic, adding that it would certainly help in creating a proper situation for the polls.
Meanwhile, a Maoist party source said Prachanda, CPN-UML general secretary Madhav Kumar Nepal and Ekta Kendra general secretary Prakash also discussed the ideal model of a republic during their recently held talks.

[Red Heretic]

Another interesting article:

Maoist to hold roundtable conference; prepare to walk out of govt
The CPN-Maoists is gearing up to wage a protest movement after holding round table conference with the disgruntled faction of the Madeshi Janadhikar Forum (MJF) including Limbu, Tamang and other ethnic organisations.

The Maoists say that they would be compelled to start this movement from September 18 if their 22-point demand which includes declaring the country a republic is not met immediately.

In order to make their movement successful, the Maoists have decided to hold a round table conference with the MJF faction, Limbuwan and Tamsaling ethnic organisations including People’s Front Nepal, Communist Party of Nepal (Unified), Marxist Leninist (ML) on September 13 in the capital city.

Only the top leadership of these parties and organisations has been notified about the details of the round table conference.

The Maoists are hopeful they would be able to polarize the forces for republic through the conference and this would in turn help in finalizing the plan of action for the movement.

When asked about the rumor making rounds about Maoist leaving the government on September 18 to wage their movement, Maoist central member Barshaman Pun a.k.a. Ananta said, “We have made all the preparations for the movement. Now we are very close to walking out of the government.”

The Maoists are of the assertion that though Nepali Congress has already decided to opt for republicanism, there won’t be a meaningful election until the country is not declared a republic before it. They say this is why there is no option left for them than to go ahead with their movement.

The Maoists have put forward a 22-point demand saying that it is a basis for building an enabling atmosphere for the constituent assembly election. Although the Maoists have been repeatedly threatening to opt out of the government if a new agreement is not reached by the end of this Nepali month (September 17), no initiatives for any kind of meeting or consultation between the ruling eight parties has been taken on this issue. nepalnews.com ag Sep 11 07

[RNK]

I've been slowly growing more weary about the Nepali comrades. Recently Prachanda made a visit to Switzerland, and when he got back, he praised the Swiss republican system.

[stevensen]

u guys ever been to nepal? done actual combat? i am not a astrologist lets wait and see what they beofore criticising them

[Red Heretic]

Yeah, I read about that too. Where do you think they were coming from RNK?

I never saw anywhere where Prachanda was directly endorsing the Swiss imperialist bourgeoisie. I suspected that this had more to do with Prachanda trying to draw lessons on international relations and neutrality from Switzerland because the particular neccesities of the revolution in Nepal. In other words, I suspect that the CPN(M) may be looking very desparately to how it can maintain it's revolution in an overall situation in which the internaitonal relation is extremely unfavorable, with both India, China, and the USA looking to invade and crush their revolution. Switzerland has historically been able to remain neutral throughout inter-imperialist wars, and I suspect this is what has made the CPN(M) interested in whatever could be learned from that.

The question for us Revolutionary Communists should be how are they looking at that? I mean, we really don't have the basis to know what the thinking around this is internally within their party. I think all of the developments in the last month alone highlight the complexity of the situation, and the need for communists to be materialists toward the revolution in Nepal. We need to know how they are looking at things, and to watch the development of the revolution before people just dismiss it because they have questions about some things.At the same time, I'm not argueing that people should blindly tail it either.

[autocritique]

The Swiss republic is one of the most consistently bourgeois-democratic regimes in the world. Of course, this doesn't make Swiss monopoly capitalism any less imperialist, nor does it make the Swiss republic any less a form of bourgeois dictatorship. But the minimum programme of the CPN(M) is, after all, a democratic republic.

If I understand correctly, Prachanda said the Swiss federal system could be a model for the kind of republic they're trying to establish in Nepal (allowing for a certain level of regional autonomy, etc.).

How well they'll be able to fight for this republic, let alone the socialist revolution, with a good portion of their arms under UN "supervision," remains to be seen.

[Red Heretic]

Yeah, the Swiss republic is an imperialist bourgeois democratic republic, I don't think anyone was saying otherwise. However, the question is, how do the Nepalese comrades see this? I what context do they see learning Switzerland as useful? I don't think they ever said they were looking to Switzerland as a model of socialism.

I don't think that communists should be dogmatists. Sometimes there are things we can learn from our enemies. Like I said earlier, we need to know how the CPN(M) is looking at this.

[autocritique]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 13, 2007 10:52 am
I what context do they see learning Switzerland as useful?
In the democratic context.

Prachanda was referring to their federal system in particular. This is currently a big issue in Nepal, where the idea of regional autonomy has considerable appeal among a number of different minority groups.

This is an entirely separate question (well, about as separate as any question can be from another) from the CPN(M)'s tactics on the field of international relations, by the way.

Swiss imperialism isn't "neutral" because of its federal system.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 02:30 am
In the democratic context.

I don't think you have the basis to know that. There is a lot more going on than what is on the surface.


Swiss imperialism isn't "neutral" because of its federal system.

I don't think anyone here was argueing that comrade.

[Red Heretic]

PLA's movement is serious violation of agreement, says UNMIN

Following the movement of thousands of combatants of Maoists' People's Liberation Army (PLA) from cantonment site in Nawalparasi on Friday morning, the United Nations Mission in Nepal (UNMIN) has expressed concern terming it as serious violation of the agreements.

"UNMIN has this morning monitored the movement of large numbers of Maoist army personnel outside the main cantonment site in Nawalparasi and its satellite sites, in the western region. This is a serious violation of commitments made in the agreement on the management of arms and armed personnel reached between the Maoists and their partners in the Interim Government," says a statement issued by UNMIN.

The statement says that UNMIN had deployed three mobile teams to monitor this movement of Maoist army personnel.

"UNMIN has communicated its concerns direct to the political and military leadership of the CPN (Maoist), who advised that it ordered the immediate return of personnel to the cantonment," the statement adds.

Saying that the verification process of Maoist army personnel is proceeding well, the UNMIN has reminded that "implementing the commitments in relation to the management of arms and armed personnel, without exception, is essential to the overall peace process and in particular to preparing a free and fair atmosphere for the Constituent Assembly election."

Meanwhile, commander of the fourth division at Nawalparasi cantonment site Pratiksha has said that they ventured outside the cantonment to hold demonstrations in order to press the government to pay salaries and rations that have been agreed upon. According to him, the government has provided salary of only one month since Mangsir (Nov/Dec) last year.

Earlier, the government had agreed to provide Rs 3000 as monthly salary to each PLA combatant. nepalnews.com sd Sep 14 07

[autocritique]

Originally posted by Red Heretic+September 14, 2007 11:03 am--> (Red Heretic @ September 14, 2007 11:03 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 02:30 am
In the democratic context.

I don't think you have the basis to know that. There is a lot more going on than what is on the surface.[/b]

Well, they are/were fighting a democratic revolution. Prachanda's comments were pretty upfront--no great mystery, in this case. He said what he said quite openly. For you to then argue that people have "no basis" to understand his simple, upfront comments is more agnostic than anything else.

And if it is true that only CPN(M) members are qualified to decipher Prachanda's public comments to the bourgeois press, then...well, there's a much bigger problem.


Originally posted by Red [email protected] 14, 2007 11:03 am

[email protected] 14, 2007 02:30 am

Swiss imperialism isn't "neutral" because of its federal system.

I don't think anyone here was argueing that comrade.

Ah, no kidding. Not everything someone types in a thread is nessecarily a direct response to something someone already wrote. Call it "contributing to the conversation," if you like.

One other thing: Despite the fact that a federal system of some sort would probably be preferable in a country with as many oppressed national minorities as Nepal, citing the Swiss system as a model would seem to be an erroroneous political muddle compared to Lenin's slogan "revolutionary-democratic dictatorship of the proletariat and peasantry" with self-determination for all oppressed nationalities. This may sound like nitpicking, but I can't see why a communist leader would look to old bourgeois democracies for inspiration when the democratic tasks in Nepal require something far more revolutionary (and far more temporary).

[Eleftherios]

Um, I know this might sound like a stupid question to some of you, but how in the world is Switzerland an imperialist country?

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 10:43 pm
Well, they are/were fighting a democratic revolution. Prachanda's comments were pretty upfront--no great mystery, in this case. He said what he said quite openly. For you to then argue that people have "no basis" to understand his simple, upfront comments is more agnostic than anything else.

And if it is true that only CPN(M) members are qualified to decipher Prachanda's public comments to the bourgeois press, then...well, there's a much bigger problem.
No, they have been fighting a communist revolution. They've always said that this is a part of the world proletarian revolution. They've presented this whole thing about Constituent Assembly as a transitional stage to the New Democratic Revolution (which is a transitionary stage to the dictatorship of the proletariat. Whether this is correct is something that comrades should be looking at, and that is why we need more information.

You do not have the basis to know what the internal thinking within the CPN(M) is. Prachanda has said all kinds of things like "the way someone talking in a liberated area is different from how one talks in a White Area [the area of the enemy]." Gaurav has claimed this is all part of preparations for a final insurrection. Things are very complex and you (living in an imperialist country and not even being in dialogue with them) do not have the basis to know all of the ins and outs of the CPN(M)'s thinking. You just don't.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 12:20 am
Um, I know this might sound like a stupid question to some of you, but how in the world is Switzerland an imperialist country?
Switzerland has an economy that is rooted in the super-exploitation of the proletariat in the oppressed (third-world) countries.

[Red Heretic]

Maoists to quit govt by Monday if there is no agreement: Prachanda tells PM

Kantipur Report

KATHMANDU, Sept 15 - Maoist chairman Prachanda informed him that they have decided to quit the government by Monday if there is no agreement on the 22-point “pre-requisites” floated by the Maoists for the Constituent Assembly elections soon.

Prachanda flanked by his second-in-command Dr Baburam Bhattarai had gone to meet Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala Koirala at the latter’s official residence at Baluwatar Saturday morning.

“The Prime Minister told the Maoist leadership that this is not the time to quit the government,” Home Minister Krishna Prasad Sitaula told reporters after the meeting. “The Prime Minister also said that the eight-party unity must be further strengthened.”

The Prime Minister also told the Maoist leaders to stick to the agreements with the seven parties.

He also said that unity between the eight parties must be maintained for the next 8 to 10 years.

However, Prachanda insisted that they will quit the government if there is no agreement on their demands including declaration of a republic ahead of the Constituent Assembly elections, then they will hold a mass assembly in the capital in two days to announce Maoist withdrawal from the government.

The Maoists plan to hold mass assemblies in different parts of the country to declare their upcoming strategies in the next couple of days.

The Maoist leaders also meet CPN-UML General Secretary Madhav Kumar Nepal today to discuss their demands.

Only yesterday, Communications Minister Krishna Bahadur Mahara had disclosed that the Maoists have already issued an ultimatum to Prime Minister Koirala to quit the government within the next few days if their demands were not fulfilled soon.

“We, all four Maoist ministers in the government, have issued an ultimatum to the Prime Minister to draw serious attention of the government to our issues related to 22 point (demands),” said Mahara, who leads the Maoists in the government. “We told him that if these issues do not become the agenda in the cabinet than we won’t have any other choice than to quit the government.”

When asked when they plan to quit the government, Mahara said that if the Prime Minister keeps on turning a deaf ear to their demand than they will be forced to quit the government by the end of the Nepali month of Bhadra (September 17). Earlier yesterday, Prachanda had said that efforts were on to take the other seven parties on board on “pre-requisites” for the elections.

At the same time, he had added that they would be compelled to take to the street if the consensus does not materialize.

The major factions of the ruling alliance such as Prime Minister Koirala-led Nepali Congress and CPN-UML have criticized the Maoists for trying to impede the November 22 elections by setting pre-conditions.

All other parties inside as well outside the parliament have already geared up for the elections.

Posted on: 2007-09-14 23:24:16 (Server Time)

[RNK]

One other thing: Despite the fact that a federal system of some sort would probably be preferable in a country with as many oppressed national minorities as Nepal, citing the Swiss system as a model would seem to be an erroroneous political muddle compared to Lenin's slogan "revolutionary-democratic dictatorship of the proletariat and peasantry" with self-determination for all oppressed nationalities. This may sound like nitpicking, but I can't see why a communist leader would look to old bourgeois democracies for inspiration when the democratic tasks in Nepal require something far more revolutionary (and far more temporary).

Because being inspired by a system is different from adopting that system. In a strict structural sense, republican democracy is not inherently bad; while the Swiss model obviously needs key changes, it can prove to be a beneficial "template" to adapt to Nepali conditions. Afterall, when you are a movement that is preparing for national politics, it's necessary to start somewhere, to have a working model. And Nepal, obviously, has no such model to work with.

Still, I must admit this is a far different (and invigorating) experience than I'm used to. This process is happening now, not 30 or 50 or 100 years ago. While most of us are used to examining the errors and successes of past revolutionary movements, the chance to observe one in process is veryinteresting, but also frustrating, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to see how this develops now, not Monday!

[autocritique]

Originally posted by Red Heretic+September 15, 2007 06:35 pm--> (Red Heretic @ September 15, 2007 06:35 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2007 10:43 pm
Well, they are/were fighting a democratic revolution. Prachanda's comments were pretty upfront--no great mystery, in this case. He said what he said quite openly. For you to then argue that people have "no basis" to understand his simple, upfront comments is more agnostic than anything else.

And if it is true that only CPN(M) members are qualified to decipher Prachanda's public comments to the bourgeois press, then...well, there's a much bigger problem.
No, they have been fighting a communist revolution. They've always said that this is a part of the world proletarian revolution. They've presented this whole thing about Constituent Assembly as a transitional stage to the New Democratic Revolution (which is a transitionary stage to the dictatorship of the proletariat. Whether this is correct is something that comrades should be looking at, and that is why we need more information.

You do not have the basis to know what the internal thinking within the CPN(M) is. Prachanda has said all kinds of things like "the way someone talking in a liberated area is different from how one talks in a White Area [the area of the enemy]." Gaurav has claimed this is all part of preparations for a final insurrection. Things are very complex and you (living in an imperialist country and not even being in dialogue with them) do not have the basis to know all of the ins and outs of the CPN(M)'s thinking. You just don't.[/b]
No, they're not fighting a "communist" revolution (whatever that is). They are/were fighting a democratic revolution against semi-feudalism (big landlords, the monarchy) and semi-colonialism (the old state's completely subservient relationship to the big imperialist powers). The idea is that, upon completion/consolidation of the democratic revolution, supposedly the CPN(M) will lead the Nepalese proletariat (which is very small) along with the mass of poor peasantry (which is the majority of the country) on to the proletarian, socialist revolution. Of course, we'll see.

You've sort of said some of this yourself, but you seem confused on the character of the current revolution in Nepal. (Carefully differentiating between the different types, or different stages, of revolutions is one of the dividing lines between Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism.)

Also, I find your assumptions about my "basis to know" this and that a little irritating. On the contrary, I would argue that it is possible to develop a pretty good basis for understanding what a foreign party has to say through careful materialist analysis over a period of time. To simply throw your hands up in the air and say "no basis to know!" is, as I said, agnosticism.

More, you repeat a couple of well-known statements from various CPN(M) leaders, which are interesting in their own right, but I don't see what you're trying to demonstrate with them. Perhaps you wish to show that Prachanda's comments in favour of a Swiss-style federal system shouldn't be interpreted to mean that the CPN(M) has given up on insurrection? Fear not, comrade, I would never come to such a conclusion simply based on a single comment about an entirely different question (and I should hope that no one else would, either)!

Lastly, about your comment regarding how Prachanda speaks in liberated areas vs. White areas. This is an interesting formulation, and I would be interested if this is your own analysis or someone else's. It seems intentionally formulated to provide a cover for political eclecticism. Why should it matter if Prachanda is in a White or liberated area? If he's speaking to the bourgeois press, he's speaking to the world (including the oppressed with access to mass media). He knows this, of course.

[autocritique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 06:55 pm

One other thing: Despite the fact that a federal system of some sort would probably be preferable in a country with as many oppressed national minorities as Nepal, citing the Swiss system as a model would seem to be an erroroneous political muddle compared to Lenin's slogan "revolutionary-democratic dictatorship of the proletariat and peasantry" with self-determination for all oppressed nationalities. This may sound like nitpicking, but I can't see why a communist leader would look to old bourgeois democracies for inspiration when the democratic tasks in Nepal require something far more revolutionary (and far more temporary).

Because being inspired by a system is different from adopting that system. In a strict structural sense, republican democracy is not inherently bad; while the Swiss model obviously needs key changes, it can prove to be a beneficial "template" to adapt to Nepali conditions. Afterall, when you are a movement that is preparing for national politics, it's necessary to start somewhere, to have a working model. And Nepal, obviously, has no such model to work with.

Still, I must admit this is a far different (and invigorating) experience than I'm used to. This process is happening now, not 30 or 50 or 100 years ago. While most of us are used to examining the errors and successes of past revolutionary movements, the chance to observe one in process is veryinteresting, but also frustrating, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to see how this develops now, not Monday!
To a certain extent, I agree with what you're saying here. Perhaps pointing to Switzerland, an example everyone can freely examine (since the truth about the basic functions of bourgeois democratic regimes is far less distorted than the real experience of, say, the early years of the USSR) might be a good way of demonstrating to Nepal's oppressed nationalities and peoples what sort of system the Maoists have in mind.

Although, on that note, I have a hard time believing that Swiss-style cantons will satisfy the aspirations of Nepal's national minorities...

I also agree that the developments in Nepal are very exciting and I hope that revolutionaries and progressives of all trends, Maoist or not, will not let ideology and preconceived notions stand in the way of recognizing and upholding the progressive democratic gains won by the CPN(M)-led people's war.

[RNK]

Although, on that note, I have a hard time believing that Swiss-style cantons will satisfy the aspirations of Nepal's national minorities...

I agree. As I elluded to earlier, I'm critical of this move. There are better "models to choose from" than Switzerland -- Venezuela, or Cuba, for example, have more progressive and admirable qualities than Switzerland (in my opinion).

[Red Heretic]

No, they're not fighting a "communist" revolution (whatever that is).

Communists are fighting for the world-wide proletarian revolution that achieves what Marx called "the 4 alls."

the abolition of all class distinctions (or "class distinctions generally");
the abolition of all the relations of production on which these class distinctions rest;
the abolition of all the social relations that correspond to these relations of production; the revolutionizing of all the ideas that result from these social relations;

This is what is meant by communist revolution.


They are/were fighting a democratic revolution against semi-feudalism (big landlords, the monarchy) and semi-colonialism (the old state's completely subservient relationship to the big imperialist powers). The idea is that, upon completion/consolidation of the democratic revolution, supposedly the CPN(M) will lead the Nepalese proletariat (which is very small) along with the mass of poor peasantry (which is the majority of the country) on to the proletarian, socialist revolution.

There is no such thing as a "democratic revolution" in the abstract. What is fundamental? What are the class antagonisms that are involved in a revolution?

New Democratic revolution is something that is very different from the bourgeois "old democratic" revolutions. In the New Democratic revolution, the proletariat leads revolution against the feudalism and imperialism. This process also works as a transitional stage to socialism and the dictatorship of the proletariat as New Democratic revolution led to in China.


Also, I find your assumptions about my "basis to know" this and that a little irritating. On the contrary, I would argue that it is possible to develop a pretty good basis for understanding what a foreign party has to say through careful materialist analysis over a period of time. To simply throw your hands up in the air and say "no basis to know!" is, as I said, agnosticism.

No, this is not agnosticism, it is materialism. We do not know how the Nepali comrades are looking at things internally within the Party, and how they view this transitional stage. It is very difficult to analyze all of the inner workings and complexities of the people's war in Nepal, and we need more information.


More, you repeat a couple of well-known statements from various CPN(M) leaders, which are interesting in their own right, but I don't see what you're trying to demonstrate with them. Perhaps you wish to show that Prachanda's comments in favour of a Swiss-style federal system shouldn't be interpreted to mean that the CPN(M) has given up on insurrection? Fear not, comrade, I would never come to such a conclusion simply based on a single comment about an entirely different question (and I should hope that no one else would, either)!

Lastly, about your comment regarding how Prachanda speaks in liberated areas vs. White areas. This is an interesting formulation, and I would be interested if this is your own analysis or someone else's. It seems intentionally formulated to provide a cover for political eclecticism. Why should it matter if Prachanda is in a White or liberated area? If he's speaking to the bourgeois press, he's speaking to the world (including the oppressed with access to mass media). He knows this, of course.

You should read Prachanda's interview regarding this. I think it is really interesting, and it highlights the complexity of this whole thing.

Check it:

INTERVIEW WITH PRACHANDA

reposted from Kantipur Online
a leading daily in Nepal
dated Aug. 9, 2007

Are the Maoists planning a fresh people’s revolt after their Fifth Plenum? What will be the future of the CA polls? What policy will the Maoists embrace towards India? And how far will the Maoist-SPA alliance go? Maoist Chairman Prachanda spoke on these and various other contemporary issues in an exclusive interview with Nepal magazine recently. Excerpts of the interview:

Your Fifth Plenum (extended meeting) drew much attention. What was so special about it?
The difference between the political circumstances during the earlier four extended meetings and this year’s meeting is the specialty. The earlier extended meetings were held during wartime, for the preparations of the war. This year, the extended meeting took place in a completely new environment of the ongoing peace process and at a time when we, too, are a part of the government.

Secondly, when we entered into the peace process from the process of the People’s War, it was but obvious that several questions would be raised from within and outside the party. The Fifth Plenum has answered all such questions and brought about uniformity in understanding.

What does uniformity in understanding mean?
Transforming a country by addressing the class, caste, regional and gender issues in the transitional phase in a peaceful manner and being a part of the government to hold a Constituent Assembly election are rare experiments in communist movements. Our party has transformed the people’s war into strategic defense, balance, and then strategic retaliation and then ultimately into the peace process, which is a novel experiment in itself. Therefore, this process would obviously have given rise to several questions from within and outside the party. Whether this process will lead us to success or surrender? Such questions had been raised very naturally. We had to answer such questions. And, understanding the fact that the path we have chosen to bring about social and revolutionary changes in a novel way by analyzing all the revolutions and counter-revolutions of the 20th Century is what we call the uniformity in understanding.

We heard that your party rank and file came down heavily on you, that internal differences were spilled over, and that three lines conspicuously surfaced in the fifth plenum. What is the truth?
This is utter nonsense that I was heavily attacked. Had it been so, it would have been impossible to get the 2200 representatives of the plenum united again at the end. Definitely, the honest revolutionists were gravely concerned whether the party would deviate (from its original path). Because of such concerns, several questions were raised. What about security when the central leaders congregate in Kathmandu? Would the follow the path of deviation like the CPN-UML while staying in Kathmandu and enjoying vehicle ride? It’s true that concerns such as these were raised. But it was more than clear that they had a huge confidence in the leadership.

As far as the three different lines are concerned, they exist in all parties: Rightist, extremist and the middle-path. We represent a revolutionary line. I did not write Prachanda Path in the document of the plenum. But no one said Prachanda Path was the main line and should not be left out. This also helps to understand the line and debates of the party’s extended meeting.

Your earlier documents used to attack directly; this time around you have said many things vaguely. Why?
The language we used when we were in Rolpa and the one we have to use while in Kathmandu has to be inevitably different. The language used while in one’s own base area and the language that is used while in the White Area cannot be the same.

Do you still consider Kathmandu a ‘White Area’?
Yes, because Kathmandu still does not belong to the people.

You often mention the phrase ‘a new or a novel experiment’. What is this experiment for-- for a revolution or a compromise?
When we talk about a new or a novel experiment, it is for a revolution. Considering the global and national situation and development in science and technology, we have to find a conclusion to push forward the revolution and for that a new and novel experiment is required.

What will that revolution do?
In Nepal’s context it (revolution) will alter the feudal-production relationship or the feudal-property relationship. It will also change the feudal-political relationship and the feudal-cultural relationship. Secondly, it will free Nepal and the Nepali people from the interventions of the foreign imperialists, reactionaries and expansionists.

That means, at a certain point, violence could again take place in the name of revolution?
In one way or the other, each revolution is violent. No matter how peaceful a movement you call it, it always has violence and counter-violence. Secondly, we have felt if we can move forward on the political base formed after our 10 years of people’s war, people can achieve freedom in a peaceful manner as well, and we can constitute a new society. And we are currently engaged in the same experiment. But whether it will always remain peaceful or turn violent again does not depend on us; it depends on our opponents. It depends on the imperialist and feudalist elements which are not yet completely defeated. There is a possibility that they could use violence against the people once again. In that case, the people will have to retaliate against them. At that point, the revolution could again turn violent.

So, there still remains a final confrontation, no?
It can be understood that way. If the process we have embraced after the 12-point understanding and other agreements is obstructed and if the people are not given an amicable atmosphere to express their mandate in a peaceful way and if violence is again used against the people, then a final battle can take place.

There have been allegations that it’s you who have been committing violence and excesses through the Young Communist League (YCL).
Some media houses that believe in reactionary violence are engaged in this propaganda. This is not the truth. If you go to the bottom of each such incident, then you will realize that these incidents have taken place in retaliation to the ruling mindset of the ruling class.

You are in the government. Then aren’t you, too, among the rulers?
If one looks at the outer structure (of the government), one can say so. But, in essence, we joined the government just for the sake of the Constituent Assembly polls. We are not the whole-sole in-charge of the power. Power and government are not the same thing. And again, when we joined the government, we were told that it would be run on consensus, which is not happening. If it continues this way, the relevance of us staying in the government will be over.

So, when are you quitting the government?
Our ministers are giving an ultimatum today. Then, it will depend on how the government leadership takes the issue and how it is discussed in the eight-party. It will be sorted out in a few days.

People still have doubts about the CA polls; will the election take place on the said date?
It should. But looking at the preparations made by the government leadership and its modus operandi, we have serious doubts about the polls taking place on November 22. Holding the elections without creating certain essential conditions will not fulfill the people’s aspirations. For example, all the agreements reached so far must be implemented in a proper way. Above all, all the groups, including those in Madhes, which are creating troubles, must be controlled.

Since the Gaur carnage, our more than 50 cadres have been killed. But no action has been taken against the guilty. They are walking free. In such a situation, how can one believe that the government can hold the elections in a proper manner? How can we believe? We have already said that India does have a role in one way or the other in creating unrest in Terai, especially the Hindu extremist groups of India are creating troubles in Terai. The government’s failure to control this has given rise to misgivings about the possibility of elections. Besides, feudal royal and other reactionary forces are also trying to thwart the elections. Therefore, we have been saying that an environment for the elections can be created only by declaring the country a republic before the polls.

It is said that you yourself don’t want the elections because your (party’s) popularity has gone down lately.
There is no reason to doubt us as far as the elections are concerned because thousands of our fighters sacrificed their lives for the CA polls. We cannot be against the polls. Yes, we do feel that we might lose; it’s because the feudalists in the country and imperialists-reactionary forces are hatching conspiracies and trying to marginalize us. Despite that, we are not going to deviate from the election front. We have already formed a high-level committee to write an election manifesto. We will soon announce our first list of the candidates in the preliminary level.

There have been allegations that you are complicating the already sorted out issues like a republican set up and proportional electoral system to obstruct the elections.
When it was decided that the CA polls would not take place on June 20, we wrote a note of dissent that the CA polls would not happen unless the country is declared a republic. After we pitched the republican voice high, parliament amended the interim constitution incorporating a provision that it could remove the king with a two-thirds majority. In this circumstance, how can it be said that we are against the polls. This (republican set up) is our old demand.

As far as the proportional electoral system is concerned, this is what we have always believed in. We had compromised thinking that the elections would be held within June and also because the Nepali Congress did not accept the demand for a fully proportional system. But, we were unable to clarify ‘the compromise’ before the people. We admitted in our fifth plenum that this was a mistake and we clearly put forth that the proportional electoral system is our belief. But we have not said that we will shy away from the elections if the country does not adopt the proportional electoral system. In this situation, how are we obstructing the elections?

On the question of a republic?
Our party has decided that a republican set up is a must. We have already announced that we will run campaigns for the republican set up. However, we will not shy away from the elections if that does not happen.

Is your relation with Prime Minister Koirala thawing?
I won’t call it thawing… But the truth is there is a contradiction in the way the political developments are taking place and the way the Nepali Congress is working. Girija Prasad Koirala and other leaders who, during the people’s war, told us what we did – attacking the headquarters or targeting the choppers – was alright, now act in a way as if they want us go back when we are in the peace process and in the government. We doubt that Koirala is going to have a huge regressive and bourgeois change.

What will be the status of the Koirala government if, in case, the elections don’t take place?
There won’t be the Koirala government if elections don’t take place. Not only will Koirala’s government go, the country will face a huge disaster.

What kind of disaster?
The country will be caught in a complex civil war if the CA polls are not held in proper manner.

Civil war?
Yes, a civil war. The series of events have shown that. At that time the scale of international forces’ intervention will be very large. Many people even indicate Nepal’s fate as that of Afghanistan and Iraq. But not Iraq or Afghanistan, Nepal could turn into a Vietnam of the 21st century. This means, there is a possibility that the Nepali people will once again have to revolt against international intervention. What I believe is, if the peace process does not move forward in a proper manner, yet another people’s revolt is a must.

Are you in a position to organize that sort of people’s revolt?
The people of Nepal have to do that. We, on our part, could of course try to lead the revolt.

But, how much possibility is there of deferring the polls to Baisakh (mid-April to mid-May) through an agreement by amending the constitution?
I don’t think so. It does not happen every time. There won’t be any situation where the Nepali people will tolerate the postponement of polls time and again.

That means, if polls don’t happen in November, there is no possibility of polls at all in the near future?
I think it won’t be wrong to draw such a conclusion.

For what the people’s revolt you are talking about?
Firstly, it is for holding of the polls. If that could not happen, it is for transferring all the power to the people.

Power in the people’s hands means power in your hands?
Power in our hands means power in the hands of those who represent the people

When are you launching your people’s revolt?
The process has already begun. Our comrades who are ministers have outlined certain points and given an ultimatum to quit the government if those points are not met. This itself is the beginning of the revolt.

What will be the eight-party equation if the elections do not take place?
I doubt that the coalition will remain intact if the elections do not take place. Either the eight parties will again launch a fresh movement or some of the parties will join hands with the reactionary forces and some will reach out to the people.

What will be the role of the PLA in the revolt?
The PLA cannot be used in course of the people’s movement. But, anything can happen if a situation arises wherein the country heads towards the people’s revolt. The PLA may not remain inside the ‘cantonments’. It will come out.

What will happen to the UN monitoring/ supervision process if the election does not take place on the scheduled date?
The agreement was for nearly one year. If the election does not take place within that period then the UN’s role would come to an end. There will be no need of the UN to stay here.

Let’s change the context. You claim that there is a conspiracy against you in the Terai. Where was that conspiracy hatched?
The problem in Terai is of a serious nature. It is not true that the Hindu extremists alone are behind it as we had been mentioning sometimes. When we sealed an agreement for the Constituent Assembly elections, representatives of the United States went to Madhes to instigate (the people) against us. America has tried to marginalise the Maoists in Madhes. Secondly, the expansionist faction of the Indian ruling class is also conducting planned activities. Thirdly, the feudal-landlord class, which was earlier displaced from Terai, is also involved for revenge. Fourthly, influence of the parliamentary parties was almost non-existent in Terai. They are also taking it as a chance to reduce the Maoist influence there. All these groups have united against the Maoists. And, the dacoits, murderers and criminals, who were chased away by our activists, have also organized themselves. Therefore, the Madhes problem is multidimensional.

Haven’t you talked to the Indian side about the Madhes affairs?
We have been holding discussions. I have been raising the issue with the Indian ambassador—i.e. with the officials working in Delhi. If India had wanted then this kind of mayhem could have been definitely averted. Now they say that such activities are taking place due to the open border. But, there is no ground to easily accept that. It seems to be part of a strategy to sabotage Nepal’s revolutionary movement. Secondly, the general public in Nepal knows that a big ‘design’ of the Indian ruling class to expand its influence in Nepal-- particularly in Madhes-- has been in play. We have been countering this.

What is your India policy now?
We had raised nationalism as the main agenda when we launched the people’s war. In the latter phase, when our responsible friends were getting arrested in India, and the Indian interventions increased, we started our preparations to fight against India. We discussed about a tunnel war with India. I had prepared a document after studying the tunnel warfare of the Vietnam War.

It is an open secret that we wanted to hold talks with the royalists before ‘February 1’. Our policy on nationalism and threats from India remains the same if the issues of the tunnel warfare and the talks with Gyanendra are viewed together. However, the February 1 incident badly turned the situation towards an autocracy. It was a newer development than our expectation and analysis. After the advent of the autocracy, we had to go against it. We had to forge a working alliance with the parliamentary parties for that. On top of that, we had to opt for an alliance with the Nepali Congress. And for that, we had to seek Delhi’s support.

Why? What is the relationship between Delhi and the Nepali Congress?
There is a very deep-rooted relationship between Delhi and the Nepali Congress. Is that a secret? Observing the developments since this party was born shows a special relation. For instance, we wanted to strike the 12-point agreement in Rolpa. But, we went to Delhi after Girijababu said he won’t come to Rolpa, and would rather meet us in Delhi. We had a tough time hoodwinking (the Indian authorities) to bring Girijababu to our place. But no matter how much we tried to trick the Indian government, we don’t feel that it was unaware of our meetings. Girijababu had stayed as a guest of the Indian government. That (12-point understanding) took place with the Indian government’s consent. In this way, India did have a role in the signing of the 12-point understanding. In other words, it won’t be otherwise to say that we, too, had some kind of relationship with India through the Nepali Congress.

Now, what does India want from you and what do you want from India?
A relationship of equality. We want the past agreements and treaties (with India) be reviewed appropriately. Also, we want India to help us positively in this transitional period as a neighbour. On the part of India, may be it now wants us to work as per its interest and wish? However, we didn’t work in that way after joining the government. What we feel is India did play a role to marginalize our party’s influence in Terai; it wasn’t good.

What do you feel about Indian Ambassador Shiv Shankar Mukherjee’s recent remarks about the CA elections?
The kind of language he used was very objectionable. That is against the Nepali people and the independence of the Nepali state. It gives a clear hint that India wants to dictate things (in Nepal). It smacks of the tone and language of former US ambassador Moriarty.

Are Nepal’s nationality and sovereignty under threat due to foreigners?
Earlier, when I said the country is heading towards a catastrophe, I also meant to hint at the danger looming on Nepal’s national integrity. The way foreign meddling has been on the rise, if viewed in all contexts, it may pose a danger to Nepal’s independence if all nationalist forces do not stand united. However, I don’t think that danger has already come. The national feeling of the Nepali people is very strong. The Nepali people are always ready to make any kind of sacrifice for the country’s independence. Nevertheless, there are indications that do hint at huge conspiracies being hatched against Nepal’s national integrity and national independence.

[blazeofglory]

just heard in the radio that they might as well quit tomorrow!!! lets see wat happens. prachanda's addressing a huge mass tomorrow....



Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala has 'rejected' the two main demands of the CPN (Maoist) – immediate announcement of republic and proportional representation-based election system for the November 22 polls.
(Nepalnews)

[autocritique]

Originally posted by Red Heretic+September 16, 2007 03:27 pm--> (Red Heretic @ September 16, 2007 03:27 pm)
No, they're not fighting a "communist" revolution (whatever that is).

Communists are fighting for the world-wide proletarian revolution that achieves what Marx called "the 4 alls."

the abolition of all class distinctions (or "class distinctions generally");
the abolition of all the relations of production on which these class distinctions rest;
the abolition of all the social relations that correspond to these relations of production; the revolutionizing of all the ideas that result from these social relations;

This is what is meant by communist revolution.[/b]

Well, since you're trying to be "precise," I might as well point out that what you're referring to is the socialist transition to communism. Simply lumping democratic revolutions, socialist revolutions and socialist construction into one, big "communist revolution" smacks of "permanent revolution" more than anything else.


Originally posted by Red [email protected] 16, 2007 03:27 pm


They are/were fighting a democratic revolution against semi-feudalism (big landlords, the monarchy) and semi-colonialism (the old state's completely subservient relationship to the big imperialist powers). The idea is that, upon completion/consolidation of the democratic revolution, supposedly the CPN(M) will lead the Nepalese proletariat (which is very small) along with the mass of poor peasantry (which is the majority of the country) on to the proletarian, socialist revolution.

There is no such thing as a "democratic revolution" in the abstract. What is fundamental? What are the class antagonisms that are involved in a revolution?

New Democratic revolution is something that is very different from the bourgeois "old democratic" revolutions. In the New Democratic revolution, the proletariat leads revolution against the feudalism and imperialism. This process also works as a transitional stage to socialism and the dictatorship of the proletariat as New Democratic revolution led to in China.

Okay, I've just specifically said "democratic revolution against semi-feudalism (big landlords, the monarchy) and semi-colonialism (the old state's completely subservient relationship to the big imperialist powers)" and now feel the need to mention the truism that "there is no such thing as a 'democratic revolution' in the abstract." Do you really think I'm being abstract or are you just that pedantic?

By the way, just because the democratic revolution is led by the proletariat (and whether or not that is actually the case here is yet another question...) doesn't mean it still doesn't have a fundamentally bourgeois character. On this note, I strongly recommend Lenin's Two Tactics of Social Democracy in the Democratic Revolution (http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/TT05.html). (And, look! There we have our Comrade Lenin with his "democratic revolution in the abstract." No, not really...)


Red [email protected] 16, 2007 03:27 pm


Also, I find your assumptions about my "basis to know" this and that a little irritating. On the contrary, I would argue that it is possible to develop a pretty good basis for understanding what a foreign party has to say through careful materialist analysis over a period of time. To simply throw your hands up in the air and say "no basis to know!" is, as I said, agnosticism.

No, this is not agnosticism, it is imperialism. We do not know how the Nepali comrades are looking at things internally within the Party, and how they view this transitional stage. It is very difficult to analyze all of the inner workings and complexities of the people's war in Nepal, and we need more information.

At what point do you feel there will be enough information to begin to arrive at some basic conclusions? And what, pray tell, does imperialism have to do with my, or your, ability to analyse this question? Would I, or you, be better off if we lived in a non-imperialist country?

Please keep in mind that we're referring to the question of what Prachanda meant when he referred to the Swiss federal republic as a possible model for Nepal.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by autocritique+September 17, 2007 08:21 pm--> (autocritique @ September 17, 2007 08:21 pm)
Red [email protected] 16, 2007 03:27 pm


Also, I find your assumptions about my "basis to know" this and that a little irritating. On the contrary, I would argue that it is possible to develop a pretty good basis for understanding what a foreign party has to say through careful materialist analysis over a period of time. To simply throw your hands up in the air and say "no basis to know!" is, as I said, agnosticism.

No, this is not agnosticism, it is imperialism. We do not know how the Nepali comrades are looking at things internally within the Party, and how they view this transitional stage. It is very difficult to analyze all of the inner workings and complexities of the people's war in Nepal, and we need more information.

At what point do you feel there will be enough information to begin to arrive at some basic conclusions? And what, pray tell, does imperialism have to do with my, or your, ability to analyse this question? Would I, or you, be better off if we lived in a non-imperialist country?

Please keep in mind that we're referring to the question of what Prachanda meant when he referred to the Swiss federal republic as a possible model for Nepal. [/b]
Sorry, it was a typo. I meant to say "materialism," not imperialism.

[Red Heretic]

Tomorrow is the big day...

Koirala ‘rejects’ Maoist demands for pre-election republic and PR-based election system

Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala has 'rejected' the two main demands of the CPN (Maoist) – immediate announcement of republic and proportional representation-based election system for the November 22 polls.

During his meeting with CPN (Unity Centre) general secretary, Prakash, in Baluwatar Monday morning, Koirala said he was ready to fulfil 20 other Maoist demands, but these two demands were not possible to meet at the moment.

Nepal FM, a Kathmandu-based independent radio station, quoted the semi-underground communist leader that the Prime Minister, however, expressed readiness to pull Nepal Army guards from the Royal Palace and make public the whereabouts of disappeared people.

Koirala reiterated that republic is an issue to be decided by the constituent assembly.

Prakash is intermediating between the Maoists and the top leaders of seven other ruling parties. He has held series of meetings with key eight-party leaders in an attempt to forge consensus on the Maoist demands, who have threatened to quit the government from Tuesday if the demands are not met by then.

Prakash also held discussion with Peace and Reconstruction Minister Ram Chandra Poudel and Nepali Congress leader Dr Shekhar Koirala and is scheduled to meet UML general secretary Madhav Nepal and Maoist chairman Prachanda later today.

Earlier in the morning, during his interaction with the newly elected office-bearers of the Nepali Congress-affiliated Nepal Press Union, PM Koirala reiterated his stand against declaring republic from the Interim Parliament.

He said declaration of republic before the constituent assembly polls would not get legitimacy and popular mandate and added that he hoped the Maoists would not quit the government and launch street protests. nepalnews.com mk/ia Sept 17 07

[Red Heretic]

The final meeting between the CPN(M) and the SPA is currently in progress. The CPN(M)'s announcement should take place in a couple hours...

EDIT: Announcement in 2 hours and 15 minutes to be precise.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 18, 2007 05:43 am
The final meeting between the CPN(M) and the SPA is currently in progress. The CPN(M)'s announcement should take place in a couple hours...

EDIT: Announcement in 2 hours and 15 minutes to be precise.
Good luck to all our Nepalese comrades! Our hopes lie with your struggles!