Challenging Homophobia

[The Feral Underclass]

On Saturday night I went to an after-club night party with friends and while enjoying kissing a man I was challenged by a man who took particular offense to me doing in front of him. He became aggressive but soon realised that he had clearly picked on the wrong gay guy and backed down.

These situations are exactly the kind of situations, unfortunately, gay people have to face if they wish to seriously challenge homophobia. Kissing a man in a public place, especially a bar is a direct affront of heterosexual hegemony and a direct challenge to homophobic attitudes that dictate that it is inappropriate or wrong for me to express my sexuality publicly.

Gay people have to be brave and stand up to homophobia, not by expressing and existing in "safe places" but by living in society and by refusing to be bullied into submission.

That's the radical approach to challenging homophobia.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 03, 2007 10:37 pm
On Saturday night I went to an after-club night party with friends and while enjoying kissing a man I was challenged by a man who took particular offense to me doing in front of him. He became aggressive but soon realised that he had clearly picked on the wrong gay guy and backed down.

These situations are exactly the kind of situations, unfortunately, gay people have to face if they wish to seriously challenge homophobia. Kissing a man in a public place, especially a bar is a direct affront of heterosexual hegemony and a direct challenge to homophobic attitudes that dictate that it is inappropriate or wrong for me to express my sexuality publicly.

Gay people have to be brave and stand up to homophobia, not by expressing and existing in "safe places" but by living in society and by refusing to be bullied into submission.

That's the radical approach to challenging homophobia.
Amen. The radical approach is most effective. They just need to take a stand.

[spartan]

yes i agree with you completly but it is going to be a difficult struggle. gay people are quite rightly more accepted than ever (except maybe ancient greece) in mainstream areas of western culture but from some who are fortunately an almost silent minority (because of political correctness) you still get the odd mumble about whats right and whats wrong. it is good to know though that these people wont exist when the revolution has succeeded and gay people can be free from judgement. DEATH TO HOMOPHOBES!!!

[Kwisatz Haderach]

You know there's something wrong with society when an act as simple and inoffensive as kissing is considered "radical" or "shocking."

It is important for all comrades - gay and straight alike - to stand up and take action against any public displays of homophobia, just like we do for racism. I have no doubt that if you had kissed a woman of another race (instead of another man), and someone had taken offense to that kiss, there would have been many people volunteering to kick the racist asshole out of the bar.

[Le Libérer]

Oh TAT I would have loved for you to be at some of the demostrations ACTUP stage at KKK rallys, in the 90s. I have talked about them before but, just imagine the looks and horror, actually on the faces of KKK members at the rally they planned for 4 same sex couples to position themselves as close to the speakers podeum, and as his speach became more heated (about the time he started on queers) the couples started kissing. We were rushed by white hoods and the police rushing them. It was a site to see.

I dont do the club thing anymore, the place I go the most is run by lesbians. I'm shocked to know that behavior still exists. I'm glad you hear how you handled him. Hopefully he learned a lesson.

[Freigemachten]

Yes, the radical approach makes a great point in some situations. In others it will get you fucking killed. Around here the homophobes are of the large, redneck, farming sort, and they travel in groups. I'm straight, but I have gay friends, and I take up for them at every oportunity, and back them up when confronted by homophobes. Sometimes though, making the direct challenge can end pretty badly, especially at parties or anything like that. I am not, by any means saying don't stand up against homophobia. I am saying that if you are going to openly challenge someone, be prepared for potential consequences from him and or his friends, keep a friend around who is also capable of handling themselves if it comes to a scrap, because sooner or later,it will. I'd have your back TAT, any day brother, but some people can't handle doin that.

[spartan]

Yes, the radical approach makes a great point in some situations. In others it will get you fucking killed. Around here the homophobes are of the large, redneck, farming sort, and they travel in groups. I'm straight, but I have gay friends, and I take up for them at every oportunity, and back them up when confronted by homophobes. Sometimes though, making the direct challenge can end pretty badly, especially at parties or anything like that. I am not, by any means saying don't stand up against homophobia. I am saying that if you are going to openly challenge someone, be prepared for potential consequences from him and or his friends, keep a friend around who is also capable of handling themselves if it comes to a scrap, because sooner or later,it will. I'd have your back TAT, any day brother, but some people can't handle doin that.
just carry around a weapon or in a situation you feel is completly against you dont inflame it thats all. though that does not say anything about the fact that there are still alot of misguided people out there who cant except homosexuals in public for whatever fucked up reasons.

[RaiseYourVoice]

i dont mind you kissing me in front of a bar!

apart from that, i totally agree with you, though hetero myself i would sure join to defend anyones right to kiss whenever and whereever they want.
actually its scary how many people still hold this "i tolerate gay people, if they hide in their houses and i dont have to see it" attitude. on a local radio station (local in one of the biggest german towns) there was a discussion on this once, you cant imagine how many people called and expressed themselves that way... and also planned to educate their children that way.

[Comrade Rage]

The radical approach is the only way to challenge homophobia since it's so entrenched in society. As I have said before, homophobia tends to be much more tolerated than other forms of xenophobia. You've gotta be brave. SMASH IT.

[luxemburg89]

Gay people have to be brave and stand up to homophobia, not by expressing and existing in "safe places" but by living in society and by refusing to be bullied into submission.


Exactly. You did the right thing, and hopefully he'll be feeling very embarrassed for a very long time, to try and start a fight and win on disgusting prejudice lines is sickening, but you can take comfort that his 'pride' will be severly damaged and he'll think twice before doing that again. You have the moral, and physical highground here.

[Entrails Konfetti]

He became aggressive but soon realised that he had clearly picked on the wrong gay guy and backed down.

Whats your fighting style?

A while back my cousin in Guildford had his car window smashed by some homophobe for doing the same thing you did-- kissing a guy then standing up for himself. It's quite cowardly that he smashed his windsheild.

The fuck is peoples problems.

[spartan]

The fuck is peoples problems.
the problem for these people is usually themselves but they of course dont realise it (or dont want to realise it) and blame other people such as ethnic minorities or homosexuals for all their problems when at the end of the day they themselves are the problem!

[Dr Mindbender]

the irony is the most aggressive homophobes usually have a few skeletons in their own closet- which is why they react with such hostility as they dont like to be reminded of it.

[Comrade Rage]

Either the homophobes are latent homosexuals, or usually they are afraid that they are. That's why they are so strongly anti-gay.

E.G. Senator Larry Craig (R-ID)

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 10:46 pm
DEATH TO HOMOPHOBES!!!
Really? I hope you realize that the overwhelming majority of the earth's population is homophobic in one way or another.


homophobia tends to be much more tolerated than other forms of xenophobia

Homophobia is not a form of xenophobia

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 06, 2007 10:54 am
Either the homophobes are latent homosexuals, or usually they are afraid that they are. That's why they are so strongly anti-gay.

I'm not sure if there's much evidence for either of those claims? Most homophobes are just really ignorant/narrow-minded people.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by bleeding gums malatesta+September 06, 2007 04:19 am--> (bleeding gums malatesta @ September 06, 2007 04:19 am)
COMRADE [email protected] 06, 2007 10:54 am
Either the homophobes are latent homosexuals, or usually they are afraid that they are. That's why they are so strongly anti-gay.

I'm not sure if there's much evidence for either of those claims? Most homophobes are just really ignorant/narrow-minded people.[/b]
While far from being the norm, I think it happens though. However, I think most people expressing homophobic sentiments -- rather than having homosexual feelings of their own they're afraid of -- are afraid of being accused of being gay if they don't reinforce homophobia by agreeing with homophobic sentiments/statements in a group.

And thus the bigots with actual strong, violently homophobic sentiments of their own, while actually being a rathersmall minority, appear to be in majority in school classes, workplaces etc.. :(

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Sentinel+--> (Sentinel)While far from being the norm, I think it happens though. [/b]

Sure.


Sentinel

However, I think most people expressing homophobic sentiments -- rather than having homosexual feelings of their own they're afraid of -- are afraid of being accused of being gay if they don't reinforce homophobia by agreeing with homophobic sentiments/statements in a group.

I agree.

[spartan]

Really? I hope you realize that the overwhelming majority of the earth's population is homophobic in one way or another.

okay how about EDUCATE THE HOMOPHOBES!!!

[Ismail]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 07:09 am

Really? I hope you realize that the overwhelming majority of the earth's population is homophobic in one way or another.

okay how about EDUCATE THE HOMOPHOBES!!!
Much better. Just saying "DEATH TO (group)!!!" makes you look like a nut.

[spartan]

Much better. Just saying "DEATH TO (group)!!!" makes you look like a nut.
yeah i guess your right. but the question is how do we educate them?

[Comrade Rage]

Beats me, honestly. :unsure: In most public shool systems across the country, homophobia is rather strong. I was educated in Milwaukee Public Schools and in a military school, and much like Sentinel said, anyone who isn't eagerly condeming a classmate for percieved 'gayness', or 'gayness' in general will be called gay-and worse. :angry:

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 02:23 pm
but the question is how do we educate them?
Ask TAT, he seems to have some useful ideas...

Luís Henrique

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by Luís Henrique+September 06, 2007 08:19 pm--> (Luís Henrique @ September 06, 2007 08:19 pm)
[email protected] 06, 2007 02:23 pm
but the question is how do we educate them?
Ask TAT, he seems to have some useful ideas...

Luís Henrique [/b]
When I was working in HIV Prevention, the public school system in this part of the state. North La. wouldnt even allow us in to teach about safe sex. No condoms nothing. It was like, if they didnt address it, it didnt exist, complete denial. And then wanted to blame sex educators when the kids got pregnant or contract an STD.

My point is, with backwards thinking like that, the subject of sexual orientation seems impossible. Maybe its differnt in larger cities. I hope so.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 03:23 pm

Much better. Just saying "DEATH TO (group)!!!" makes you look like a nut.
yeah i guess your right. but the question is how do we educate them?
Unless they are ideological/political homophobes then it is my experience that actually people just have a common misconception of what homosexual are like, mostly because of the portrayal of gay people in mainstream television culture. People are usually very shocked to discover I'm gay, simply because I don't "act gay".

Once the myth has been broken down my sexuality becomes quite an interesting point of conversation as people, usually men, want to understand something they have never really come into contact with.

Unfortunately that kind of interaction is reactive rather than proactive and to be honest, apart from simply living your life as a gay person in "mainstream" society there really is nothing we can do except promote united class struggle.

Mystical attitudes towards homosexuality will disappear through the process of class struggle, we just have to get there.

[Sentinel]

People are usually very shocked to discover I'm gay, simply because I don't "act gay".

Once the myth has been broken down my sexuality becomes quite an interesting point of conversation as people, usually men, want to understand something they have never really come into contact with.

I experienced this a lot when I first came out with my orientation, and sometimes still. Whoah what a load of stupid albeit (mostly) well meaning and honest questions! I tried to take them with humour, even though my patience wore a bit thin at times. It did indeed seem like they were more encouraged to get into a dialogue with me about it as I was originally 'one of the guys' for them, didn't correspond to the stereotype they had in their minds.

I generally got the feeling that many walked from those discussions with a more mature attitude towards homo/bisexuality. It's a shame that it seems to fall upon ourselves to 'educate the masses' about such a common and natural thing, but it's just how the society is now. I agree with you that openness is crucial to the progress of our rights in society, and that we should strive for it whenever it's possible, ie doesn't equate certain violence or death..

[Red Scare]

i am bisexual, and i do not tell anyone because ppl would nvr leave me alone about it in highschool, and anyway ppl call me faggot or "so gay" for various reasons, and it really pisses me off, EDUCATE ALL HOMOPHOBES!!!!

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:09 pm
i am bisexual, and i do not tell anyone because ppl would nvr leave me alone about it in highschool, and anyway ppl call me faggot or "so gay" for various reasons, and it really pisses me off, DEATH TO ALL HOMOPHOBES!!!!
But by keeping silent you allow their prejudices and homophobia to become acceptable!

You shouldn't let them calling you names p you off, try accepting it and call yourself it too and be proud of it if possible! Kiss someone of the opposite gender in front of them too like TAT, that will get them off your back for sure. :)

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by rev0lt+September 07, 2007 03:11 pm--> (rev0lt @ September 07, 2007 03:11 pm)
[email protected] 07, 2007 01:09 pm
i am bisexual, and i do not tell anyone because ppl would nvr leave me alone about it in highschool, and anyway ppl call me faggot or "so gay" for various reasons, and it really pisses me off, DEATH TO ALL HOMOPHOBES!!!!
But by keeping silent you allow their prejudices and homophobia to become acceptable!

You shouldn't let them calling you names p you off, try accepting it and call yourself it too and be proud of it if possible! Kiss someone of the opposite gender in front of them too like TAT, that will get them off your back for sure. :) [/b]
thank you for the help, i think i will not do that until college though, unfortunately because in my high school in america coming out means social isolation for the rest of high school, and i am a guy by the way

[Red Scare]

this is my first time coming out on revleft by the way :) , i was not nervous or anything about it, i just did not have any opportunities :)

[Faux Real]

Oops, I meant of the "same gender", lol. Yeah, I know how high schools are like here, it is an especially tough environment in urban/inner city schools(actually I hear midwest/countryside places are very christian-like and anti-homophobic as well). Though, aren't you already isolated coz of them calling you names?

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 03:20 pm
Oops, I meant of the "same gender", lol. Yeah, I know how high schools are like here, it is an especially tough environment in urban/inner city schools(actually I hear midwest/countryside places are very christian-like and anti-homophobic as well). Though, aren't you already isolated coz of them calling you names?
no, I still have friends who do not call me that, but i do not know if they will stay my friends if I come out publicly, I have not told my parents yet but I know they will not have a problem because they frequently tell me when I am talking about bisexuality or homosexuality with them "if you are gay there is nothing wrong with that and we will always love you no matter your orientation." :)

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 03:20 pm
(actually I hear midwest/countryside places are very christian-like and anti-homophobic as well)
really? i thought that it was the most homophobic in the midwest because of its tendency to be conservative and because of "born again" christians

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:28 pm
no, I still have friends who do not call me that, but i do not know if they will stay my friends if I come out publicly, I have not told my parents yet but I know they will not have a problem because they frequently tell me when I am talking about bisexuality or homosexuality with them "if you are gay there is nothing wrong with that and we will always love you no matter your orientation." :)
Oh I see, sticky situation. Fortunately you have awesome parents unlike many others!

I have no idea what to do about the issue with your friends(although personally, I would just tell them and test them to see if they really are willing/worthy to be friends and if they were true friends at all regardless of your orientation, but that's just me and don't know how close you all have been), hopefully someone else can advise well on it. ;)

[Sentinel]

Coming out becomes much easier with age, but I'd still advice to do it as young as possible -- those are years of your lives you are giving to the fucking bigots. I very much regret that I waited until my early twenties, just a couple of years ago, like I said.

If you feel that you have to wait, I'd advice to at least tell someone you know you can trust. It's not the same as living your life as the person you are, obviously, but it makes a difference still.

[spartan]

in an anarchist society "coming out" would not be an issue.

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by rev0lt+September 07, 2007 03:33 pm--> (rev0lt @ September 07, 2007 03:33 pm)
[email protected] 07, 2007 01:28 pm
no, I still have friends who do not call me that, but i do not know if they will stay my friends if I come out publicly, I have not told my parents yet but I know they will not have a problem because they frequently tell me when I am talking about bisexuality or homosexuality with them "if you are gay there is nothing wrong with that and we will always love you no matter your orientation." :)
Oh I see, sticky situation. Fortunately you have awesome parents unlike many others!

I have no idea what to do about the issue with your friends(although personally, I would just tell them and test them to see if they really are willing/worthy to be friends and if they were true friends at all regardless of your orientation, but that's just me and don't know how close you all have been), hopefully someone else can advise well on it. ;) [/b]
yes, my parents are awesome to a degree, they are both anti-racist, anti-homophobe, anti-sexist, and anti-fascist, but my mom is a liberal moderate and my dad's a cappie so, that is about all we agree on politically

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 11:26 pm
in an anarchist society "coming out" would not be an issue.
In an anarchist society you wouldn't have to come out.

[The Redbear]

im afraid to come out where i live, there seems to a overwhelming majority of homophobes. the thing that drives me mad is that no one in authority seems to want to do any thing about it, adopting a see no evil policy not the govoment, council or even the heads of local schools seem to care about the fact the last "open" homosexual was living though hell at the hands of these pethetic people.

[spartan]

i feel sorry for you redbear because your situation unfortunately is becoming alot more common in certain areas of society. and the so called up holders of peace the police the teachers etc dont really do anything about it except for a minority who can never get there voices heard.

[counterblast]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 10:26 pm
in an anarchist society "coming out" would not be an issue.
Ideally, in an anarchist society the concept of "coming out" wouldn't even exist because we wouldn't live in a hetero-centric world where so much cultural expectation is put on kids.

[spartan]

Ideally, in an anarchist society the concept of "coming out" wouldn't even exist because we wouldn't live in a hetero-centric world where so much cultural expectation is put on kids.
deep down that is what i meant but like the idiot i am i worded it wrong. silly me!

[counterblast]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 12:41 pm

Ideally, in an anarchist society the concept of "coming out" wouldn't even exist because we wouldn't live in a hetero-centric world where so much cultural expectation is put on kids.
deep down that is what i meant but like the idiot i am i worded it wrong. silly me!
Don't say that, we all make mistakes!