violence

[spartan]

is it not about time that we start to get more violent in our struggle? why dont we organize ourselves into fighting gangs which would disrupt as many right wing political gatherings as possible? why dont we start stockpiling weapons and getting mentally and physically fit for the impending struggle? or is this just to much for some of the arm chair leftists here? compared to our third world comrades who are fighting and dying as we speak we first world leftists are a disgrace! especially those leftists who ally themselves with non left movements. we should only help ourselves if these non leftists wish to join us then that is okay but we should not help these so called progressives like hamas and hezbollah etc because when the revolution comes these groups will soon be our enemies.

[hajduk]

VIOLENCE IS CONTRAPRODUCTIVE when its use for attack
DEFENCE IS PRODUCTIVE when its use for fight against those who attack
wait capitalists to attack us and then.....
see how should suppose to do
two examples
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sffqiiSX7bs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_ab7Dksqfnw

[rouchambeau]

I think you're addressing--if only indirectly--a pretty important problem for white, middle-class, male, etc "radicals". Most of us are not really faced with any repression. In fact, we have a lot to gain from the present system. I think if we better understood our position in society and were we get our privileges, then we would be more willing to actually engage in revolutionary activity.

So why aren't we more militant? Because it's easier to just give in.

Why are our "third world" comrades more militant? I suppose they don't have a choice.

[furtherthanmost]

Don't be a dick. Wait. The small right-wing groups are immaterial at present. Yeah, stop them by protest. the governments see them as a threat to their hegemony, so ratting anonymously to the cops will sort that. Wait. just wait. 9 months, tops.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 07:27 pm
Don't be a dick. Wait. The small right-wing groups are immaterial at present. Yeah, stop them by protest. the governments see them as a threat to their hegemony, so ratting anonymously to the cops will sort that. Wait. just wait. 9 months, tops.
What does all this mean? Wait for what?

[RNK]

He means that trying to plan some violent uprising or direct action on an internet forum which is accessible by everyone on the fucking planet is only going to land you in jail. And fast.

[An archist]

Armed struggle at this point is just plain stupid, instead, start working in your community, organise against injustice, build out alternative networks, you'd help the movement a lot more then if you start a left-wing militia.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 04:38 pm
is it not about time that we start to get more violent in our struggle? why dont we organize ourselves into fighting gangs which would disrupt as many right wing political gatherings as possible? why dont we start stockpiling weapons and getting mentally and physically fit for the impending struggle? or is this just to much for some of the arm chair leftists here? compared to our third world comrades who are fighting and dying as we speak we first world leftists are a disgrace! especially those leftists who ally themselves with non left movements. we should only help ourselves if these non leftists wish to join us then that is okay but we should not help these so called progressives like hamas and hezbollah etc because when the revolution comes these groups will soon be our enemies.
That's why revleft is called a site for "eletist provacteurs". You try to create chaos in order to end the rule of the bourgeoisie. The problem is that peoples do not want to trust the ones who create chaos in their lifes.

Either you create chaos by using violence yourselves, or you just create chaos indirectly because the bourgeoisie acts against your actions.

A revolution or even a small uprising is when the workers get out on the streets because the ruling class is ruining the lifes of the workers. The workers start an uprising, which is called anarchy by the bourgeoisie, yet during a revolution the workers take power in their own hands and create order. Even better is that they create a better society, or if it is only regional: a better place. In this case a revolution is there to create order. That's why some say: anarchy is order! Or: one solution, revolution!

This means there is no place for people who want to create chaos (even if it is only targeted at the bourgeoisie) in order to have a better society. You will make yourself an enemy to both the workers and the bourgeoisie. Even if you have the blue print of a new and better society, it's just pure injustice when you provocate chaos amongst the people! Even if you do not provocate it directly amonst the people, the bourgeoisie will do and blame you for it (they have effective propaganda machines to do this).
Only there where the workers feel they need to be liberated (3rd World countries) you can have some support with your actions. But in many countries you'll only create chaos when you start violent attacks. Throwing a rock in a window is already a small catastrophy in the West, as the media blames us for being the bad guys.

By the way, being at war with the bourgeoisie means you will have the army, the media and the police set up against you. A revolution/class struggle only succeeds when army, police and media are in favor of your actions, or when they simply do not react.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 02:38 pm
is it not about time that we start to get more violent in our struggle? why dont we organize ourselves into fighting gangs which would disrupt as many right wing political gatherings as possible?
Well, We don't have the capacity to do that in a way that would make solid material gains. Or, none that I can think of. Disrupting small, decaying fascist meetings is easy enough, being antifascist is about as radical as being anti- pedophile. So there's not much reprisal attached to it. The Fascist movement is in a worse state than ours. In England at least.

But they don't have any power or influence, and attacking the establishment has a heavier price.


why dont we start stockpiling weapons and getting mentally and physically fit for the impending struggle?

Could do. You should be getting mentally and physically fit anyway, its better than being weak. I personally do exercise and body build. As for stockpiling guns. Ask yourself, would it be useful to you? or would it be a massive liability, having a store of illegal firearms that could get you put away forever, that you aren't going to be using any time soon.

If you can legally own firearms. Do. And learn to use them.


or is this just to much for some of the arm chair leftists here? compared to our third world comrades who are fighting and dying as we speak we first world leftists are a disgrace!

The people in the third world are facing a different set of social and economic problems. In the third world it's far more reasonable in the eyes of the contemporary working class to use armed struggle as a means of achieveing a political end. In the west, armed struggle would alienate you from the working class and bring about harsh repression, ultimately putting an end to your movement for a decade or so. So although I agree with your hatred of armchair lefties, to assume that unless you are in open revolt, you're not doing anything, is simply naive. And perhaps a dangerous way of looking at thigs, as armed insurrection can be a detrimental tactic.

We need to start building the networks and organising the working class, before we even talk about armed resistance, but should show solidarity with those struggling, and use force where neccisary.

Out of interest. Are you involved in a political organisation? or are you an armchair revolutionary yourself?

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 03:38 pm
is it not about time that we start to get more violent in our struggle? why dont we organize ourselves into fighting gangs which would disrupt as many right wing political gatherings as possible?
Because were are not ready. We would be smashed by the state and destroyed.

There is no gain in rushing things, as revolutionaries our militancy should be a step or two before the working class in general, not ten.

[BlakSheep]

I can see his point though. I see how leftist-formed militias could be helpful. One example would be the Black Panthers here in the states. Unless you are talking about a secret militia of sorts in which case they are right, internet is a bad place to communicate these kinds of ideas. Those pay as you go untraceable cellphones however............ I think it is a good idea and it is about time.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Red-star-[email protected] 31, 2007 01:42 pm
A huge problem in the UK is the fact that people just do not care about politics.
Urm. I think people care very much about politics. I don't know any working class person who doesn't have a political opinion on the decline of the NHS, the EU, ID cards or Immigration. A lot of people have massive issues with capitalist developments and gentrification in their local area. Seriously, do you live in a bubble? Or is it just that they need to be talking about things in ideological terms for it to be politics?

Middle class academics will talk about "Marxist theory" and "Conservative economic theory" and whatever, which most working class people, don't give fuck about. But that doesnt mean they are non-political. It shows a failure on our part to apply our politics to the here and now.


Politics is such a middle class affair the working class just do not bother. Thus the 65% turnout last election.....In comparison the France who had 85%.

On the contrary, seems like the working class have realised that voting doesn't really change things. Our job as revolutionaries it to divert that feeling of disenfranchisement into something productive rather than defeatism.

I mena, no offence, but you sound like you've just come off a politics course or something.


and just a question......what of the military? Where would they stand in armed leftist resistance? surely for the state?!

Some will desert, and some with fight with whatever right-wing coalition stands in our way. But they are not trained, practically and psychologically to engage in combat with a civilian population, particularly not the one they swore to protect. The police however, are.

[RNK]

If you want violence, then behead a Nazi.

[spartan]

dont tempt me RNK :D