Elimination of Racism

[Slavija_Bogu]

I'm done

[Raúl Duke]

:huh:

Your idea sounds alot like what the racial seperatists advocate.... <_< .

I think it&#39;s likely that "racial tensions" come from real/percieved inequality between the races, among other things.

[Slavija_Bogu]

I&#39;m done

[Raúl Duke]

They want to take everything from the people of the world... culture especially.

What are your feelings towards the "mixing of world cultures"?

I really wouldn&#39;t mind if we had the "best of all worlds"



In that case it does not matter weather they are real or perceived. People won&#39;t care because it will be a "world" away to them. Then we can try and create the Utopian world without all the internal conflict. It is the Imperialists that try and force us all together to create tensions to keep us from working together.

Are you suggesting racial seperation pre-revolution or post?

See, if there is no more inequality the people won&#39;t have to care not because it&#39;s a world away but because virtually it (inequality, which I think that is a major cause of "racial/ethnic tensions") doesn&#39;t exist/diminished.

The reasons why these tensions arise is very likely have to do with inequality (I might be wrong, I hope someone more knowledgable comes...) and that the imperialists "mediate" this by using a "divide and conquer" technique by scapegoating people as the "root of their economic woes".

Many of the anti-immigrant propaganda seems to be centered on how they are stealing jobs, driving wages down, etc. and this shows that basically imperialists do the racism trick just so they can get the people&#39;s minds off them.

[Dominicana_1965]

The fastest way to eliminate racism lies in not having social constructions. People that are "different" than others are blind to the reality that they are as identical as twins.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Sounds like Racial Seperatism, of which I am not a fan.

[Slavija_Bogu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 02:35 am
The fastest way to eliminate racism lies in not having social constructions. People that are "different" than others are blind to the reality that they are as identical as twins.
I disagree with you but that does not matter. I am suggesting a surer way of eliminating racism, as, even with years of integration policies all over the world especially in the USA the different ethnic/cultural groups still naturally segregate. My way to eliminate racism works with this human nature. There is no reason to play with fire and gamble anymore with the social experiment when there is a much surer way of eliminating racism. It is just logical.

[MarxSchmarx]

I am suggesting a surer way of eliminating racism, as, even with years of integration policies all over the world especially in the USA the different ethnic/cultural groups still naturally segregate. My way to eliminate racism works with this human nature.

I&#39;ve gotta call you on this, comrade. You&#39;re confusing culture with ethnicity with race.

Racial segregation, even so-called "voluntary" segregation in the USA and elsewhere, is anything BUT natural. Prison yards, Yugoslavia and middle-school cafeterias don&#39;t prove anything. People are socialized from the moment they are born in the USA to be sensitive to race.

When you remove the socialization bias "race" becomes a non-issue. Look at the Jews in the USA. Or go to kindergartens in multi-ethnic societies like Singapore or Brazil, and young children obviously don&#39;t care about the race of their playmates, unlike race-conscious societies like the UK or the US.

It is linking physical traits to cultural traits (e.g. slanty eyes equals smart mind, blond hair means they understand my predicament, etc...) that leads people to "self segregate" - not the physical traits themselves. And this link IS socially constructed.

[Slavija_Bogu]

I&#39;m done

[MarxSchmarx]

All I can urge you to do is to think very, very seriously about what you are saying. Little old Russian ladies don&#39;t prove your point and you can probably deduce why.


My solution just seems the most efficient to end this problem.

Whatever else your (final?) solution is, efficient it is not. Just ask the Czarist pogromists, the Junjaweed, the Serbians, the Palestinians, the Tutsis and the Hutus, the Kashmiris, and the Basques and the ... My, what wonderful examples they are of how straightforward and simple the creation of "ethnic homelands" are&#33;

In fact, these examples are so inspiring, we should export them all over the world. Let&#39;s start with the USA. Who gets fertile California? The Mexicans? The whites? The Japanese? The Kumeyaay? If the Mexicans, which Mexicans? The Mestizos? Based on what percentage native blood? The Chiapanecos? The Oaxaquenos? The Aztecs? The Mayans? How about Oregon? And Baja California? And Ecuador? And Angola? And New South Wales? And Kamchatka? Who gets what and why?

Who&#39;s the Utopian here? Why is your purportedly "natural" scheme, based on a what I&#39;m guessing are anecdotal observations, any more feasible than the integrationist alternative, already well underway (although problematically) in multi-cultural states like Switzerland, Kenya and Canada?

For all its faults, and there are many, if efficiency is your concern, indoctrinated "integration policies" and mongrelization seem to be much quicker and "efficient" ways to eliminate racial animosity than some kind of global Apartheid regime.

Not to mention sustainable.
Just think about it.

[Bilan]

. I was in Moscow and even after all the learning they went through they are still racist. I saw an old woman walk over to an African just to spit on him

This is a ridiculous point, no offense.
Consider what state Moscow is in right now. Consider what state Russia is in&#33;
It&#39;s like using Nazi Germany (...erg) as an example, and saying White Christians and Jews cannot live together.
That sounds like that ridiculous racist "science". It&#39;s rubbish.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 03:15 am
I was thinking about some things lately. We should allow each group of people autonomy to live with their own culture and people. The biggest producer of racism is when one group of people decides to come into another groups territory; especially in large numbers. This causes ethnic and cultural tensions. It would be much simpler if each group had their autonomous regions... which in the future could become entire countries. The biggest problems occur when the imperialists force everyone into one area to work like slaves. In the end they want to create a cultureless society... a Feudal labor camp is their goal. If we really want to end racism we must end it at the root&#33;
Racism is a product. Not of to culures meeting each other. But of instability, repression, fear, ...

Racism in Russia like it is today occured since the early nineties. The social security of the former Soviet-Union disappeared and the country is now in a social crisis. People need to blame someone, somebody who might be the root of every problem. When there is no one who says it&#39;s the government then people will easily blame the foreigner. The foreigner also tries to survive, yet he&#39;s from another country and therefor he should go back as he&#39;s taking our jobs, stealing our money, blablabla.
When all foreigners are seen as disturbing, then many of them will act in the way they are discribed by there hostile invironment.

When the State or the police keeps saying radical leftists are hooligans or and have no respect for someone&#39;s property, then it is evident that one day a minister might find his car burnt to ashes.

This racism or hyper-nationalism is used by the government to cover up the whole reason of the economic and social crisis: capitalism/the government&#39;s policy/neoliberalism.

In order to eliminate racism you need to have a society in which the people are secure and free. Then there will be no need to blame someone else. Capitalism doesn&#39;t make people feel secure, and there isn&#39;t always as much freedom either.

[Philosophical Materialist]

Racism is a useful tool used by the oppressor class and snake oil charlatans to divide the working class in order to continue reactionary bourgeois rule. Racism is often caused by economic considerations when people blame economic migrants for "taking all the jobs and houses" when this is not the case, but simply people finding something simple to blame for the downsides of the capitalist system. If you eliminate capitalism in favour of socialism, and then communism, then these tensions disappear.

Another main cause of racism is militaristic-jingoism, something which cannot exist in a communist society. Imperialist and bourgeois states have used militarism and jingoism as a means to tie the working class to the capitalist state in an appeal to irrational nationalism, to dehumanise foreigners and other ethnic groups because they&#39;re "on the other side." This process is also used by the bourgeois class to undermine indigenous working class emancipation movements by labelling them as "traitors." If you eliminate war and you eliminate capitalist states in favour of a family of socialist nations (and then eventually a stateless communist world), these tensions disappear.

Ethnic separatism is not the answer, it will only reinforce tensions and fear.

[Dimentio]

Nice cross.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:15 pm
I was thinking about some things lately. We should allow each group of people autonomy to live with their own culture and people. The biggest producer of racism is when one group of people decides to come into another groups territory; especially in large numbers. This causes ethnic and cultural tensions. It would be much simpler if each group had their autonomous regions... which in the future could become entire countries. The biggest problems occur when the imperialists force everyone into one area to work like slaves. In the end they want to create a cultureless society... a Feudal labor camp is their goal. If we really want to end racism we must end it at the root&#33;
I think the only thing that needs to be separated is you from your life.

Fuck off dick head.

[rouchambeau]

You&#39;re an idiot.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I say the quickest way to get rid of racism would be to kill all the racists.

[Ol' Dirty]

We should allow each group of people autonomy to live with their own culture and people.

Who are you refering to when you define we?

How do you determine who is a part of a culture or people; why?


The biggest producer of racism is when one group of people decides to come into another groups territory

Why is this the biggest problem? Why do groups of people have to have territory? Aren&#39;t territorial boundaries arbitrary?


This causes ethnic and cultural tensions.

Is that the biggest problem? Why?


It would be much simpler if each group had their autonomous regions... which in the future could become entire countries

Who would control these groups? Why? Who would keep the groups from fighting?


In the end they want to create a cultureless society... a Feudal labor camp is their goal.

Is that so?

[seraphim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 06:22 pm
I say the quickest way to get rid of racism would be to kill all the racists.
I second that motion, such small minded people should allowed only one thing. That being to enhance the human race by being removed from it&#33;

[Random Precision]

I was thinking about some things lately. We should allow each group of people autonomy to live with their own culture and people.

What&#39;s a culture? What&#39;s a people?


The biggest producer of racism is when one group of people decides to come into another groups territory; especially in large numbers.

Which is in turn caused by what again? Capitalism and Imperialism.


This causes ethnic and cultural tensions. It would be much simpler if each group had their autonomous regions... which in the future could become entire countries.

How do you propose to go about doing this?


The biggest problems occur when the imperialists force everyone into one area to work like slaves. In the end they want to create a cultureless society... a Feudal labor camp is their goal. If we really want to end racism we must end it at the root&#33;

But moving people into "autonomous regions" does not adress "the root" of the problem, which is, once again, capitalism&#33;

Sorry, but it turns out that all the world&#39;s problems can be solved by socialism after all&#33;

(And in the meantime, banning this troll would be a good step).

[rouchambeau]

I say the quickest way to get rid of racism would be to kill all the racists.
Wrong. Racism is more than just the sum of a bunch of bigots. It&#39;s a system that people participate in whether they know it or not.

[EwokUtopia]

So what you are advocating is to eliminate racism, you need to have highly homogenous spaces with extreme isolationism?

Without telling you that in itself is horridly racist in itself (I see thats being done already), I will tell you that it is flat out obsolete. We live in an increasingly global community, we fight capitalism on a global front, and in a world with the internet and the ability to travel to the other side of the world in 24 hours, this is a completely outdated idea. Humans are migratory animals by nature, that is the reason we dont all still live in Central Africa, and combine that migratory nature with 21st century technology, you have a world where Isolationism is near impossible. Our population is so large that in any world system, be it capitalist or socialist, we rely on international trade for survival. There is no truly self-sufficient country on earth, save North Korea, which could hardly be described as sufficient.

People will move, people will communicate with eachother instantly (as we are doing now), and national/racial lines will blurr. Even if we do nothing to help this blurring, it will still happen, technology makes it inevitable.

You want to preserve your culture and language, great, start recording as many Serbian songs and videos onto the internet as you can, and start making records of the language and put them down here for all to see, that way it will not be forgotten when it eventually dies, as all things inevitably do. Take the Alan Lomax approach to cultural preservation, not the Pat Buchannon one.


You are fighting a lost battle, Nationality is terminally doomed, History has killed it.

[Raúl Duke]

So what you are advocating is to eliminate racism, you need to have highly homogenous spaces with extreme isolationism?

Without telling you that in itself is horridly racist in itself (I see thats being done already), I will tell you that it is flat out obsolete. We live in an increasingly global community, we fight capitalism on a global front, and in a world with the internet and the ability to travel to the other side of the world in 24 hours, this is a completely outdated idea. Humans are migratory animals by nature, that is the reason we dont all still live in Central Africa, and combine that migratory nature with 21st century technology, you have a world where Isolationism is near impossible. Our population is so large that in any world system, be it capitalist or socialist, we rely on international trade for survival. There is no truly self-sufficient country on earth, save North Korea, which could hardly be described as sufficient.

People will move, people will communicate with eachother instantly (as we are doing now), and national/racial lines will blurr. Even if we do nothing to help this blurring, it will still happen, technology makes it inevitable.

You want to preserve your culture and language, great, start recording as many Serbian songs and videos onto the internet as you can, and start making records of the language and put them down here for all to see, that way it will not be forgotten when it eventually dies, as all things inevitably do. Take the Alan Lomax approach to cultural preservation, not the Pat Buchannon one.


You are fighting a lost battle, Nationality is terminally doomed, History has killed it.

QFT

Culture is a human invention, and like all inventions it goes into change,etc.

What seems to be happening in our world is due to global contact there is an increase in cultural mixing. Most of these mixes are basically taking in all the best stuff the cultures have to offer and dumping the other, usually reactionary (however it could be other factors why it&#39;s going to the dustbin), crap to the dustbin of history.

What matters to us is the elimination capitalism, even if we have to "trade in" "sacred traditional culture".

Even in these mixtures there is striking originality behind it. For example, I went to Japan about 3 years ago. The culture there was a mostly Asian culture yet with some Western (mostly American) features. However, these "Western cultural features" in Japan aren&#39;t carbon copies of elements of Western Culture but are in a way "Japanized" (by this I could mean that these elements are slightly changed so to fit in the conditions of Japan and to fit in the wider culture of the nation) versions of these "Western cultural elements". This sometimes lead to new cultural innovations that are quite unique to Japan (as in barely seen/prescenced in both the West and the East; and when it is available outside Japan that because of cultural exportation).

[EwokUtopia]

/&#092; /&#092; /&#092; /&#092;

Indeed, all the cultures that currently exist are new. The difference between Serbians and Laotians of today, for example, is still much less severe than the difference between Serbians in 2007 and Serbians in 1807. If you want a picture of the world of 2107, envision a world of completely blurred cultural/national definitions, this rings true be it in a capitalist future or a non-capitalist future, it is inevitable.

All things must pass, accept that and you&#39;ll live much more happily.