Fascism

[Saint Street Revolution]

You are right to label Fascism by the theories of Mussolini, as his regime was most definitely genuine Fascism.

Fascism is a system of government in which the State has complete control over the people and almost everything they do and say. Fascist media is censored and distorted to feature nothing more than nationalist propoganda. All alliegance is to the State. Fascism is usually enforced by secret police, execution, phone tapping and surveillance backed with law enforcement squads.

As far as I know, "Totalitarianism" is synonymous to "Fascism". Or at least, they share large similarities.

[praxicoide]

No, no, I advise against using the "Totalitarian" term, which is a liberal generalizing that does not see the differences in fascism, states of exception, or the "real existing socialism" regimes.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Most "Socialist States" were not truly Socialist. For instance, Stalin's USSR was at first a "Workers' State" (especially with Lenin) but grew into a class enemy and just swung back to Capitalism.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by Slavija_Bogu+August 29, 2007 01:37 am--> (Slavija_Bogu @ August 29, 2007 01:37 am)
[email protected] 29, 2007 01:06 am
You are right to label Fascism by the theories of Mussolini, as his regime was most definitely genuine Fascism.

Fascism is a system of government in which the State has complete control over the people and almost everything they do and say. Fascist media is censored and distorted to feature nothing more than nationalist propoganda. All alliegance is to the State. Fascism is usually enforced by secret police, execution, phone tapping and surveillance backed with law enforcement squads.

As far as I know, "Totalitarianism" is synonymous to "Fascism". Or at least, they share large similarities.
Yes, but under your definition most of the Socialist states could technically be considered fascist. This is where my confusion lies. Example: Compare WW2 era USSR to your definition of fascism. This is why I am hung up. I am starting to think people around here just throw the term around instead of using it correctly. [/b]
The USSR cannot be considered fascist because its economic policy worked in a different manner.

Fascism seeks for the state to integrate itself with private enterprise so that it can push whatever economic interests it may wish (usually enough money for high military spending) while allowing the capitlaists their profiteering.

Also of course fascism makes heavy use of corporativism trying to integrate different sections of society into the state in a very regimented fashion. Which again was different fromt he way the USSR functioned.

[Random Precision]

Here's the best short introduction to the subject I know of:

Fascism: What It Is and How to Fight It (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm)

He says it a lot better than I ever could, and it's definitely worth the time it takes to read, even if it's a little out of date. Hope that helps!

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by Slavija_Bogu+August 29, 2007 01:47 am--> (Slavija_Bogu @ August 29, 2007 01:47 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:44 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:37 am

[email protected] 29, 2007 01:06 am
You are right to label Fascism by the theories of Mussolini, as his regime was most definitely genuine Fascism.

Fascism is a system of government in which the State has complete control over the people and almost everything they do and say. Fascist media is censored and distorted to feature nothing more than nationalist propoganda. All alliegance is to the State. Fascism is usually enforced by secret police, execution, phone tapping and surveillance backed with law enforcement squads.

As far as I know, "Totalitarianism" is synonymous to "Fascism". Or at least, they share large similarities.
Yes, but under your definition most of the Socialist states could technically be considered fascist. This is where my confusion lies. Example: Compare WW2 era USSR to your definition of fascism. This is why I am hung up. I am starting to think people around here just throw the term around instead of using it correctly.
The USSR cannot be considered fascist because its economic policy worked in a different manner.

Fascism seeks for the state to integrate itself with private enterprise so that it can push whatever economic interests it may wish (usually enough money for high military spending) while allowing the capitlaists their profiteering.

Also of course fascism makes heavy use of corporativism trying to integrate different sections of society into the state in a very regimented fashion. Which again was different fromt he way the USSR functioned.
Yes, I am aware of the real definition of Fascism. I am talking about the way it is used on this website. When I spoke about Fascism above I was talking about the dictionaries definition. I noticed most of this website use the word fascist all the time without knowing the definition of fascism. This is mainly why I brought it up [/b]
If I wrote a dictionary, my simplified definitition of Fascism would be "Complete control over a region by the State." Most people on RevLeft use it just as this, and most people would agree this is an accurate analysis of the theories.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by Slavija_Bogu+August 29, 2007 01:56 am--> (Slavija_Bogu @ August 29, 2007 01:56 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:52 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:47 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:44 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:37 am

[email protected] 29, 2007 01:06 am
You are right to label Fascism by the theories of Mussolini, as his regime was most definitely genuine Fascism.

Fascism is a system of government in which the State has complete control over the people and almost everything they do and say. Fascist media is censored and distorted to feature nothing more than nationalist propoganda. All alliegance is to the State. Fascism is usually enforced by secret police, execution, phone tapping and surveillance backed with law enforcement squads.

As far as I know, "Totalitarianism" is synonymous to "Fascism". Or at least, they share large similarities.
Yes, but under your definition most of the Socialist states could technically be considered fascist. This is where my confusion lies. Example: Compare WW2 era USSR to your definition of fascism. This is why I am hung up. I am starting to think people around here just throw the term around instead of using it correctly.
The USSR cannot be considered fascist because its economic policy worked in a different manner.

Fascism seeks for the state to integrate itself with private enterprise so that it can push whatever economic interests it may wish (usually enough money for high military spending) while allowing the capitlaists their profiteering.

Also of course fascism makes heavy use of corporativism trying to integrate different sections of society into the state in a very regimented fashion. Which again was different fromt he way the USSR functioned.
Yes, I am aware of the real definition of Fascism. I am talking about the way it is used on this website. When I spoke about Fascism above I was talking about the dictionaries definition. I noticed most of this website use the word fascist all the time without knowing the definition of fascism. This is mainly why I brought it up
If I wrote a dictionary, my simplified definitition of Fascism would be "Complete control over a region by the State." Most people on RevLeft use it just as this, and most people would agree this is an accurate analysis of the theories.
I understand but that makes me even more confused. I see the same people that are against fascism support people by this definition could be considered fascist. A good example would be Kim Jong-il

I think the best way to go about this is to use the traditional definition [/b]
Your naming many systems of "Socialism" that most people on RevLeft oppose. Stalin, Kim-Jong,etc.

As I said before, these "Socialist States" were not truly/completely Socialist.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:56 am
I understand but that makes me even more confused. I see the same people that are against fascism support people by this definition could be considered fascist. A good example would be Kim Jong-il

I think the best way to go about this is to use the traditional definition
Kim Jong Il doesn't have many fans around here.

But anyway, should he be considered a fascist? I am going to say he isn't a fascist on the technical grounds that the economy is based on a single state owner rather than c corporated system, but I could be convinced otherwise. At any rate he is probably worse than many fascists out there anyway.

People obviously use the word fascist in varying ways here as it is used all over the place. I guess it is often used to desrcribe what is seen as capitalism at its most authoritarian, but people will vary over what point you should start calling a state fascist.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

I think fascism could be called the heavy-handed, statist approach to protecting the interests of capitalism as opposed to the concesion approach of a social democrat or liberal or the "work-or-starve" methods of libertarians.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:02 pm
What exactly is fascism? I have noticed this term thrown around a lot on this website. The definition I traditionally go with is that which Mussolini describes. If we strictly go by what the dictionary says it can be any system with an authoritarian leader. In the case of the latter most if not all socialist states that exist have this same tendency. This makes me confused about the definition of fascism that you use. I hope someone can clarify this for me
Let's see, you started three different topics in here so far, let's review them:

The first was on how separatism is a "good idea".

The second was on homosexuality possibly being a mental disease and how the "left" historically approached the subject.

This third was on how Fascism is really defined.

Dude, drop the fucking Shirley Temple, "good ship lollipop" act and grow some balls.

We all know that you most definitely know what fascism is, that you are a fascist and that you're trying to say that leftism really is related to fascism.

Just come out and say what ever it is you want to kid.; this charade is stupid.

Just like fascism.

[spartan]

so far in history there has been no true real communist state. many nations have claimed it but when you consider that in a communist utopia there is no money(which all these states had), hierarchy/government(all these states had the all powerful party and supreme leader) and states(which is what these state socialist shitholes were) well then you can not really call these states like former ussr, china, north korea, eastern europe, vietnam, etc anything like communist! though if all these states had united then we would have had a much better chance at true communism.

[Dr Mindbender]

Any ideaology which conciously promotes and defends the idea of supremacy of any given group based along the lines of race, ethnicity, religion, able-bodiedness, sex or sexuality.

Capitalism, while it has common objectives with fascism is different because it varies its social, race, religious and sexuality preferences depending on the given status quo of the day.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by The Fascist Mr. Spock
We refuse to accept new ideas and always looking for enemies within

All of the idea you have spoken about have hardly been new.

We don't bother with them any longer because history has already exposed them for what they are: irrational bullshit.

So like I said Spock, peddle your bullshit somewhere else.


P.S.

You're a pussy, just like your predecessors.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 03:02 am
What exactly is fascism? I have noticed this term thrown around a lot on this website. The definition I traditionally go with is that which Mussolini describes. If we strictly go by what the dictionary says it can be any system with an authoritarian leader. In the case of the latter most if not all socialist states that exist have this same tendency. This makes me confused about the definition of fascism that you use. I hope someone can clarify this for me.
Well, first of all I have to point out that you are going about this inquiry the wrong way. You have a word ("fascism") and you want to know what it means. I prefer to go in the opposite direction - first I discover a certain phenomenon (like, say, a system of government) and then I try to give it a name. It is generally a bad idea to start with a name and look for something to give that name to.

Not all words have well defined meanings. What I call "fascism" may not be the same thing you call "fascism", which may be different from the thing a third person calls "fascism". That doesn't mean that one of us has to be wrong - it just means that we are using the same word to refer to different things, thereby creating confusion.

Fascism is one of those words that can mean all sorts of different things, depending on the speaker. So, whenever you encounter someone talking about "fascism", it is best to ask them what they mean by fascism before you continue the conversation.

Why is the use of the word "fascism" so confusing? Because very few people have ever called themselves fascists, and they all lived in the pre-WW2 years. Over the last 60 years or so, the only people using the word "fascism" have been various self-proclaimed enemies of fascism. It is difficult for an "ism" to have a clear meaning when it is used almost exclusively as an insult.

But to answer your original question: Here on Revleft, most people use the word "fascism" to refer to a kind of authoritarian government used by the capitalist class to protect its property and interests in a situation of crisis. In other words, "fascism" is a capitalist dictatorship created to protect capitalism from imminent collapse. In order to provide this protection, fascist governments are often invested with great powers - powers that the capitalists would never agree to give up if they weren't so afraid. Some fascist governments, like that of Hitler in Germany, escape the control of their original capitalist masters and start following their own independent interests (in essence betraying the people who put them in power). Other fascist governments, like that of Franco in Spain, are obedient to their capitalist masters and eventually return to a "normal" capitalist economy once the crisis is over.

All that stuff about the government controlling various aspects of life refers to the methods of fascism, not to its goals, its ideology, its ultimate reasons for existence or its class basis. In my view, it is quite stupid to characterize a form of government solely by the methods it uses to achieve its purposes while forgetting what those purposes actually are.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I would also like to point out that the so-called "traditional definition" - the one that says that fascism is any kind of authoritarian government which tries to control its people's lives - is hopelessly vague and laughably anti-historical. By that definition, fascist governments would include:

Ancient Egypt
Imperial Rome
The Byzantine Empire
- in fact, pretty much any organized empire in history -
France under Louis XIV
England under Oliver Cromwell
Tsarist Russia
- in fact, pretty much every absolute monarchy or republican dictatorship of any kind -

[Luís Henrique]

It's useless to try to understand fascism out of its historical dynamics.

It is a movement to reform the State "from outside" so that such State can be made more easily used against the working class; and then it is the government of such reformed State - an instrument of open war against the working class.

Luís Henrique

[Bilan]

Your post is one of the reasons our movement has failed so far.


Rejecting racist, nationalist, homophobic ideologies is not why the Revolutionary left has failed. That's a bullshit historical analysis, that holds no ground what so ever.


We refuse to accept new ideas and always looking for enemies within.

? By calling someone up on racism and homophobia, we're refusing to accept new ideas?
Truly, I won't ever except such ridiculous ideas such as those too.


We can't even talk about certain subjects without someone getting all emotional and calling someone a fascist or some other attack on their character.

Is that hard to understand? If you call someone mentally disabled for being gay, they should take it on the chin (or go see a doctor)? If you tell someone that races should be seperated, due to (whatever bullshit) reason you can find, and they're from a different cultural background, they should just pack up their shit and leave?
Perhaps if you were white and straight, talking to a bunch of straight white homophob s and racists, this would go down well. But not here.



I have returned to try and talk about subjects that are very sensitive. These have always been the hardest to talk about openly. I was hoping we could have put all the stupid stuff behind us and have at least a somewhat intellectual discussion.... I guess I was wrong

Mate, you're in a thread inquiring about fascism, and subtly trying to compare it to (Failed) workers states...and subtly suggesting that their is some kind of link between Fascists and Communists.
It's absurd.
That's like telling someone from the BPP that they have links with the KKK.
As I said, it's absurd.

[quirk]

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
Free Inquiry
Spring 2003
5-11-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.



Source (http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm)

[Lamanov]

Slavija_Bogu: Why do you have Arkan's picture in your profile? Is that some kind of sick joke!?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by Slavija_Bogu+August 30, 2007 05:01 pm--> (Slavija_Bogu @ August 30, 2007 05:01 pm)
DJ-[email protected] 30, 2007 12:34 pm
Slavija_Bogu: Why do you have Arkan's picture in your profile? Is that some kind of sick joke!?
Arkan was fighting Imperial Powers. He is a hero.. although I doubt some would agree with me...

Some of my views are slightly right wing but most of them are leftist. I just don't agree with you 100%. This does not make me an enemy. By no means am I a fascist!!!! [/b]
He was a con man and a crook and nothing more.

Did you know that before he got whacked he admitted to performing oral sex for money on other inmates during his several prison terms?

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 11:30 am

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
Free Inquiry
Spring 2003
5-11-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.



Source (http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm)
How many of those characteristics are an attribute of the US government:

13/14

There isn't much sexism in the US, though women are paid less than men, but that's basically all.

[quirk]

Originally posted by Slavija_Bogu+August 31, 2007 12:25 am--> (Slavija_Bogu @ August 31, 2007 12:25 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 12:22 am

[email protected] 30, 2007 11:30 am

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
Free Inquiry
Spring 2003
5-11-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.



Source (http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm)
How many of those characteristics are an attribute of the US government:

13/14

There isn't much sexism in the US, though women are paid less than men, but that's basically all.
In the United States they are trying to bring women up to the level of men. If I remember correctly congress decided that 7% of government contracts must go to women owned companies. [/b]
I think point 5 does also apply to the US.

[RGacky3]

Don't you think it would be better to get a definitoin of Fascism from prominant Fascists like Mussoloni or something, rather than anti-fascists?

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 11:50 pm
Don't you think it would be better to get a definitoin of Fascism from prominant Fascists like Mussoloni or something, rather than anti-fascists?
Well, the problem is that most of the people who are widely considered to be fascists (for example, Hitler) never called themselves "fascists." And Mussolini is pretty much irrelevant as a historical figure anywhere outside Italy.

Since WW2, NO ONE (or at least no one important) has admitted to being a fascist. The term "fascism" has been used only by anti-fascists for the past 60 years. No wonder it has become an almost meaningless insult. But since anti-fascists are the only ones using the word, we might as well let them define it, no?

[JazzRemington]

um, is this a split thread?

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 06:13 am
um, is this a split thread?
Yes, the creator of the thread was banned and somehow all their posts were trashed.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Demogorgon+August 29, 2007 02:08 am--> (Demogorgon @ August 29, 2007 02:08 am)
[email protected] 29, 2007 01:56 am
I understand but that makes me even more confused. I see the same people that are against fascism support people by this definition could be considered fascist. A good example would be Kim Jong-il

I think the best way to go about this is to use the traditional definition
Kim Jong Il doesn't have many fans around here.

But anyway, should he be considered a fascist? I am going to say he isn't a fascist on the technical grounds that the economy is based on a single state owner rather than c corporated system, but I could be convinced otherwise. At any rate he is probably worse than many fascists out there anyway.

People obviously use the word fascist in varying ways here as it is used all over the place. I guess it is often used to desrcribe what is seen as capitalism at its most authoritarian, but people will vary over what point you should start calling a state fascist. [/b]
Mixed race relationships are illegal in DPRK and it has possibly the tightest border controls in the world? Communist? I'll let you decide
<_<

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+September 05, 2007 09:31 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ September 05, 2007 09:31 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 02:08 am

[email protected] 29, 2007 01:56 am
I understand but that makes me even more confused. I see the same people that are against fascism support people by this definition could be considered fascist. A good example would be Kim Jong-il

I think the best way to go about this is to use the traditional definition
Kim Jong Il doesn&#39;t have many fans around here.

But anyway, should he be considered a fascist? I am going to say he isn&#39;t a fascist on the technical grounds that the economy is based on a single state owner rather than c corporated system, but I could be convinced otherwise. At any rate he is probably worse than many fascists out there anyway.

People obviously use the word fascist in varying ways here as it is used all over the place. I guess it is often used to desrcribe what is seen as capitalism at its most authoritarian, but people will vary over what point you should start calling a state fascist.
Mixed race relationships are illegal in DPRK and it has possibly the tightest border controls in the world? Communist? I&#39;ll let you decide
<_< [/b]
That would be called "Totalitarianism" which differs from Fascism.

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:51 am
Here&#39;s the best short introduction to the subject I know of:

Fascism: What It Is and How to Fight It (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm)

He says it a lot better than I ever could, and it&#39;s definitely worth the time it takes to read, even if it&#39;s a little out of date. Hope that helps&#33;
It might also be worth looking at these:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/ge...1933/330610.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1933/330610.htm)

http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/f/a.htm#fascism

[Dr Mindbender]

why isnt this in anti-fascism anyway?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I don&#39;t know about fascist, but there are certainly authoritarian ideas shared by some proclaimed "Leftists" These particular authoritarian ideas proved to be unsuccessful and even anti-socialist/communist/anarchist, and I&#39;m quite saddened to see some people being held to such high regard by comrades when these names clearly helped tarnish our movement. Authoritarianism, unless we&#39;re talking about the workers and common man siezing power, should be avoided just as much as fascism.

I live by the Leftist motto: Trust the people, and everything will fall into place. They&#39;ll create their own cultural revolution. They&#39;ll seek their own political revolution. They&#39;ll want to take over the work places and ensure there is no great wealth disparity. They&#39;ll want to eliminate labor and bring about a golden age of freedom AND fairdom.

Socialism, anarchism, and communism should be about EMPOWERING the people. Fascism, statism, authoritaranism -- whatever pretty words and definitions you want to use, they&#39;re not the answer.

[Janus]

um, is this a split thread?
I trashed some posts that had been blanked out by the original thread starter.


why isnt this in anti-fascism anyway?
Because the debate here revolves around defining fascism rather than combating it.