The omnipotence of 'God' - Even the Bible proves this faux

[Palmares]

Often people have used the concept of 'God' being omnipotent to prove both his existence, and non-existence. However, for this to be true, he would have to be absolutely contradicting. This is demostrated in the following link:

http://www.geocities.com/jsmacdonaldjr/omn...mnipotence.html (http://www.geocities.com/jsmacdonaldjr/omnipotence.html)

Getting back to my point, it would be more accurate to say 'God' is logically omnipotent, though this in its self is somewhat contradictory. Examples from the Bible are as follows:

*God cannot lie, "So God has given us both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can take new courage, for we can hold on to his promise with confidence." (Hebrews 6:18)
[Other proofs:
-To do so would be contrary to His nature for He is the TRUTH, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)
-He is a God of truth and without iniquity, "The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he." (Deuteronomy 32:4)
-He is the true God, "But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation." (Jeremiah 10:10)
-He is true, "As God is faithful." (2 Corinthians 1:18)
-His ways are just and true, "And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints." (Revelation 15:3)
-His judgment are true and righteous, "And I heard the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments." (Revelation 16:7)
-His words are true, "And now, O Lord GOD, thou art that God, and thy words be true, and thou hast promised this goodness unto thy servant." (2 Samuel 7:28).]

*God cannot forsake you, "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." (Hebrews 13:5)
*God cannot despise a contrite heart, " The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." (Psalm 51:17)
*God cannot get weary, "Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:28)
*God cannot to do evil, to cause others to do evil or even to entice anyone into evil: "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted, neither tempteth he any man..." (Jas 1:13-14)
*God cannot perform injustice (can't find the Biblical quote, some of the above can be applied).

Albeit, the following do somewhat contradict the previous:

Matthew 17:20 "...If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed...nothing shall be IMPOSSIBLE unto you."

Matthew 19:26 "...With men this in IMPOSSIBLE; but with God all things are possible."

Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him..."

I'll post more later.

What do people think?

[anti machine]

i don't see any real contradictions in the texts you have posted. That is one ingenuity of religion: it's so abstract and general that, although logic proves it otherwise, the man under its doctrine will claim no specific contradictions. And he'll be right.

Although the old and new testament are almost COMPLETELY contradictory. That is, I suppose, why the Jews fail to recognize Jesus and why the Christians tend to keep their hands off the old testament.

[Obsolete Truth]

There are many things hypocritical in the Bible, perhaps because it is, like it has been already mentioned, very much general, kinda of like the Chinese languages.

[anti machine]

welcome to the community obsolete. I see you're an Eminem fan...

Yes, the generalites are what have kept religion alive, even in the face of science.

[Obsolete Truth]

Quote: from anti machine on 3:45 am on June 18, 2003
welcome to the community obsolete. I see you're an Eminem fan...

Some people change, he certainly has rap-wise of late.

Anyway, did you now the Bible doesn't say that you can't worship both God and the Devil?

[anti machine]

hmm...that seems like a logical conclusion but, no, I didn't know that.

the Bible does, however, specifically mention that man cannot serve both god and money. It advocates benevolence, peaceful protest, goodwill towards the underpriveledged, and a life of simplicity free from materialism. (This is largely the New Testament of which I speak)

But George Dubya still claims his Christianity. tsk tsk you retard of a president.

[Obsolete Truth]

You wouldn't believe how much I've heard the "You can't serve both God and Money" before. But these days it seems like they serve each other.

Are there many religious people on here?

[Umoja]

Most of the Socialist here have religious leanings.

[Blibblob]

::smacks Obsolete on the hand:: We do not preach predjudice here. Do not speak of anything as though it is the solid truth. Sorry...

Anyway, did you now the Bible doesn't say that you can't worship both God and the Devil?
::Flys onto a limb like I do a lot now...:: Maybe because God and the Devil are one and the same? Ying and Yang? Always good in some evil, and always evil in some good, good an evil are inseperateable.

Oh, and damn the old testement to Cocytus(Dante's Inferno, Treacherous). SELF DENYING PEICE OF BIGGOTED SHIT... hehe

[soul83]

Quote: from Blibblob on 3:24 am on June 21, 2003[br[ Always good in some evil, and always evil in some good, good an evil are inseperateable.


Professor Godbole in EM Forsters Passage to India makes this remark.... I think this is true in a way... God has to know evil if he has to be good otherwise one cannot be good without knowing evil.

[Blibblob]

Oh, there's this funny joke on how God created evil off of enemies.com:

How God created evil

God created Adam 6th day. He took a day off and looked at Eden, and found Adam was jerking off all day. Since God was not wise enough to create Evil yet, he couldn't kick him out of Eden. Instead he decided to give him a mate. He ripped off Adam's limb and Created Eve - he made a mistake: Eve was a man.

Next day he found Adam and Eve 69ing each other. He still didn't come up with the idea of evil so he desided to confiscate either of penis. Since Adam already has one less limb, He decided to take off Eve's penis. Since Eve's penis has no use for Him, he tured it into a snake and put it back the Eden. Adam and Eve were dismayed. Adam couldn't lick Eve's penis and Eve cannot come anymore.

"Look, Adam, it is my penis hanging on the tree!" Eve said pointing at the snake. "Let's get it back!" Adam replied happily. Adam grabbed the snake and tried to put it between Eve's legs. "Wait!" Shouted the snake--it got its own freedom and it didn't want to lose it. Snake begged them.

"But I'm horny!" Exclaimed Eve, with his libido hit his ceiling. The snake thought and thought, trying to escape from them. And it found the solution. "I got an idea", said snake, "Eat that fruit over there, Eve: Your penis will grow back". "Are you sure", said Eve doubtedly. "Of course I am. I have intelligence, you don't. Trust me"

Eve couldn't wait. "Awright". And she took the fruit, bit it, and swallowed. Snake grinned: Now they are as smart as I am so they can find their own solution of their own problem. "Adam, I feel strange!" Eve said panicky. "My penis stump is wet!" "Does it hurt?", Adam said worriedly, touching Eve's wet region. "Don't stop!" Eve shouted, feeling good. "Keep touching".

Adam was puzzled but kept touching the stump. "Harder!" Said Eve. "Touch inside!" "But how--wow!" Adam realized his finger slipped inside. I didn't know the stump had a hole. It got wetter and wetter and Adam got horny.

"You look joyed. You look happier when I sucked your penis and you come inside my mouth!" Adam kept on, frustrated "But what am I gonna do? I have no hole like yours. You got to suck my penis but I think you are enjoying more than I come inside your mouth"

"Shut up!" Eve said breathlessly, "Stick something bigger!" "But what?" Adam questioned--He said to put something bigger but his fist is too big. His nose is smaller. He looked around his body. Wait, there it goes, "How about this?" He pointed his penis. "Whatever, hurry!" Eve couldn't stand it.

Adam pushed his penis inside Eve's hole. "That's it. It's good. Move it deeper!" Eve said excitedly. "I am Ay am Aaay aaam" Adam manage to respond, "I'm coming!" "Me toooo" And they reached to the climax and shouted together, "OH MY GOD!"

"Did you call me?" That was God. "What's up?" "Ah, it's great" they said, feeling relieved. "I never had such great orgasm, it's better than my hands or Eve's mouth", said Adam. "It's better than your mouth, too, Adam" Eve replied happily.

God became frustrated--why do they enjoy so much while I have to babysit them? "How did you find to enjoy so much?" "Or, it was him", Eve pointed snake, "He told me to eat the fruit over there so I can get my penis back. But instead I got a hole and it's great!" Now God was really angry: No only was he outjoyed by those his creatures but also he was outsmarted by the snake. His anger reached his ceiling.

"Get the hell out of Eden!" Shouted God. Puzzled, Adam said, "but what is hell?" "That's where you go, you goddemn little snake!" He pointed the snake. "How dare you got an idea I, God couldn't come up with!" shouted God. "Okay, since you showed your intelligence I'll give you another world you manage. That's hell. You manage that place forever!" And got sent the snake to hell.

"Excuse me!" Shouted the snake from Hell, "But this place has nothing to manage!" "Of course not: No one has ever been dead". God shouted back triumphantly. "But what's to be dead?" Asked the snake. God pointed out Adam and Eve, "That's what they and their children will be."

"I want to eat something sour," said Eve. "Or my god your tummy is swollen" Adam shouted, pointing Eve's belly. "Eve's got a child in her stomach", said God. "And from now on, you have to eat or you'll be dead and you'll go to hell. And you'll get children anytime you guys have fun! I put all you can eat out of Eden. Now get the Hell out of there!"

"I'm hungrrry" Eve started running away, chasing food. "Eve, wait!" Adam followed Eve, and eventuary they were out of Eden.

"Um, I feel better now," God said happily. "I didn't know it's so great to see them hugry and annoyed. Let's keep bugging them anytime I feel bad. They'll keep fucking and making lots of children. If there are too many children he can put some of them to Hell and it's none of his business anymore."

"Snake, you'll call yourself Devil from now on. Being a ruler of another world, I am sure you now know how I feel. Do them whatever you want to them. I'll do whatever I want and just ask me if you need more. After all I thank you for outsmarting me. Without you I wouldn't find how great it's to be..." God thought a little, "Call this feeling evil".

And Evil has been his best creation ever after.

-unattributed



Anyways... I like the logic of "God has to know evil if he has to be good otherwise one cannot be good without knowing evil.". Nice.

[Obsolete Truth]

It was not prejudice that I was insinuating, simply a query for understanding. Where in the Bible does it say anything remotely resembling 'ying and yang'? The only dialectic in there is judgement day.

BTW, can I slap you back Blibob (or whatever you radish of a name is!) :)

[Blibblob]

Sorry, but you spewed mostly anti-bible rhetoric, all that I've heard time again and again.

Lucifer(Satan for those who don't know propper names), could be represented as the yin, and god maybe as the yang. If you like to see it that way, some see Lucifer as the good, and god as the bad creator, which makes a bit of sense. Thats where the bit of good in evil and bit of evil in good comes it. God can be quite terrible, and Lucifer was the diferenting thinker. Judgement day is not necessarily bad...

(oh, and um, disregard the g at the end of yin in the earlier posts, I screwed up :biggrin:)

[Obsolete Truth]

Okay, but that still does not prove that worshipping both Lucifer and Jehovah is like 'yin and yang'. Yes they are opposites, but where does it say both MUST exist, 'without one, you can't have the other'. I believe such a point is disproven in the fact that there is a synthesis, i.e. judgement day.

BTW, suppose I did say some anti-Christian rhetoric, but I just have little patience with such ignorance (I tolerate, I do not accept as such).

[elijahcraig]

The existence of god is a contradiction, an oppresser, and a flat out lie. The need of a father figure arose, as Freud and Marx pointed out, through the cruelty of life and need for help, both through economics and psychology. God is useless, he is nothing.

"Proof that two times two makes five; the existence of a personal God..."
-Mikhail Bakunin

[Umoja]

Well who cares about Freud, I prefer Jung.

I'd rather not argue over the basis behind religion right now, but on the issue of God Omnipotence, I really doubt it ever says God is ominpotent in the first place, and even if it did, it was likely in poetry. Besides all of that, I like the semi-deist idea of God not really caring. Why would It would be to busy with other things.

[Palmares]

God according to the Bible is not omnipotent, look at my first post in this thread (I have missed some, but those will do). I didn't have enough time to find many contradictory verses, I was too tired.

Omnipotence itself is contradictory. Look up the link I included in my first post.

[elijahcraig]

Jung was an anti-semitic jackass.

[Umoja]

When was Jung ever anti-semetic?