Prosperity Preaching - My experience of it

[Palmares]

Everyone by now has heard of the various (Christian) churchs effort to win back the younger generation, prosperity preaching. I have seen account of it on television and the matter, but I had never experienced it myself.

Last week I went to a Christian conference (a state one, which I went to reluctantly, for the lone reason of keeping a friend company - they didn't want to be alone). This was a two day conference, comprised of workshops, 'talks', music, etc. There were probably 150 people there, and at first I thought how could these people be so brainwashed. But to be quite honest, it did actually hit a nerve. I do not believe 'God' exists, but it made me think about the reasons I originally stopped being Catholic and becoming atheist. When I was young, I was a Catholic, until grade 6 infact. My mum had been a devout Catholic her whole like until several years ago, I was heavily influenced by this. I had always though church to be boring, but I stuck with it. Even after my mum became atheist, I still held on the chance that 'God' might exist, I guess it is most accurate to say I believed just in case, like 'Pascal's wager'. Eventualling I stopped believing because of the grwoing influence of science, and also from various meaningless things.

Getting back on track, the conference wasn't so bad. I met some cool people, had fun in the mosh pits (from the music, I was loco in the mosh). However, I did not sing to the music (I didn't believe in the lyrics), and I did not pray when everyone else did (but I did bow my head or whatever, so I didn't offend them too much). It was really strange hearing some of the people there talking about thier 'experiences', I couldn't understand it.

The evangelist at the conference was very much trying to make religion relevant as such, going on about how he won't teach theological doctrine, but instead more exciting things. He really did try to reach the younger people, through jokes, impersonations, all that kind of stuff. But of all the things, I was most pissed off how the preacher patronised Muslims. He said Allah rewards people for walking into a crowded mall with explosives and blowing themselves up! He knows nothing about Islam! Discriminitive bastard!

Has anyone else had any such experiences? What do you think upon the matter?

BTW, I'll say some more later (I'll have another thread concerning the Bible or something on Wednesday).

[suffianr]

If you don't mind me asking, why did your mom decide to be an atheist, after so many years as a Catholic? Cheers.

[canikickit]

Good post, Cthenthar.


But to be quite honest, it did actually hit a nerve. I do not believe 'God' exists, but it made me think about the reasons I originally stopped being Catholic and becoming atheist.

In what way?
It appeals to most people, I'd imagine, because of the sense of togetherness, belonging to something. It's one of my quibbles with the actual banning of religion. Destruction, yeah, no problem, banning it is a different matter. Isn't it just another way for people to get together and have fun? There are other factors of course. Which you help be brought up.


the preacher patronised Muslims.

Not surprising. This is one of the worse aspects of religious beliefs. People can take on an air of superiority. Some think they are "God's chosen people", and are living to a higher moral standard and will get their rewards in the after life. They believe they are in superior positions because they are better. Discrimination is rife.

It was really strange hearing some of the people there talking about thier 'experiences', I couldn't understand it.

I had a religious experience once.
I felt very sick, and thought I was going to vomit. Then I felt I was going to die. In my anguish I called out to God (as a reflex response), upon saying "God" I felt a rush of euphoria through my body. I was listening to reggae and as the singer sang about "Jah Rastafari" I sang along and felt more pleasure still. All the feelings of sicklyness washed away. Then I cast thoughts of God away and thought of nothing, but still felt great. I no longer felt sick. It then became apparant to me, that it had merely been my convincing myself that I was better, that had made me feel so. I had healed myself, with a little help from Jamaica.

[Ian]

I used to go to a church (called hillsong) with a friend who is massively evangelical, I did believe some of it, but it was so weird I just didn't really wanna go when all you did was pray to god and mosh.


There are a few thing I have read about evangelical brainwashing techniques and they all include anger, fear, excitement, and nervous tension.


Think back to the camp thing, the anger that was often conjured up at my church/cult was anger at people that came to mosh or skateboard and "don't give Jesus, the creator of skateboarding and moshpits, their full attention". Fear; obviously fear of punishment in hell or even of not being accepted in the church by these people. Excitement is used to increase suggestibility (did the pastor ever ask everyone to close their eyes and put their hand up if they were ready to give themselves to god?), moshpits, fun and games are a good way to increase excitment. Nervous Tension is the tension put on the person when they are thinking "Should I put my hand up?", it is very stressful for people who are in the suggestible state.


A repetitive beat, ideally ranging from 45 to 72 beats per minute (a rhythm close to the beat of the human heart), is very hypnotic and can generate an eyes-open altered state of consciousness in a very high percentage of people. I went on an excursion to a lecture about Hypnosis at the University of Sydney and they said they found that monotonous beats make people 10+ times more as suggestible than in the normal beta state. The lecturer also joked and said "If anyone has been to a evangelical church they would know the monotonous beat very well" :) I laughed pretty hard at that

[Palmares]

Quote: from suffianr on 1:20 pm on June 16, 2003
If you don't mind me asking, why did your mom decide to be an atheist, after so many years as a Catholic? Cheers.


To be quite blunt, it was because 'God' didn't seem to help out during the hard times. My sister really upset my mum alot, time and time again. She just thought it was bullshit in the end. As a result, she siad I didn't have to go to Church again (at the end of grade 6). When it comes down to it, my mum is really dogmatic about religion now. She was always the one who pushed it (her family when she was a kid, and now us).

Hope that answers the question.

[Palmares]

Quote: from canikickit on 3:03 pm on June 17, 2003

But to be quite honest, it did actually hit a nerve. I do not believe 'God' exists, but it made me think about the reasons I originally stopped being Catholic and becoming atheist.

In what way?
It appeals to most people, I'd imagine, because of the sense of togetherness, belonging to something. It's one of my quibbles with the actual banning of religion. Destruction, yeah, no problem, banning it is a different matter. Isn't it just another way for people to get together and have fun? There are other factors of course. Which you help be brought up.

Thinking about it, besides it making me think back about my petty reasons (though, my current ones are just) for originally becoming athiest, I thought about the possibility of spirituality. Like you said, banning religion would be foolish, it denies spirituality. The fun element is more prominent is prosperity preaching (as a result of trying to trun the younger generation). Not sure if I answered that well.


the preacher patronised Muslims.

Not surprising. This is one of the worse aspects of religious beliefs. People can take on an air of superiority. Some think they are "God's chosen people", and are living to a higher moral standard and will get their rewards in the after life. They believe they are in superior positions because they are better. Discrimination is rife.

That's what I thought, but I just always remember back how it says in the Qu'ran that Muslims respect Jews and Christians (as misguided Muslims, that is). But the patronising of Muslims continued, for I asked some Christian friends about it (I complained to them), and they went on about Muslims being the worshippers of Ba'al, or the Devil. I shouldn't have asked...

Hmmm... the other stuff you said was pretty funny bro!

Anyway, I just want to add some more stuff i forgot about before. Firstly, alot of what the preacher said wasn't that bad, but quite often twisted to fit the Christian doctrine. I might have said this, but he went on about money, morality, passion, blah blah blah. He used famous examples for most, like saying something on Oprah demonstrated this(money), something from Gladiator proves that(passion), Braveheart this(passion), Eminem that (passion)... Sorry that there are so many passion examples, but I've forgotten alot of them (and there were alot). I've forgotten alot of what I was going to say, but I'll finish it with this. As many are aware, the themes of The Matrix are a highly talked about phenomena (ironically the name of a big church conference in Sydney). Unsurprisingly, the preacher twist the theme for the church and says the symbolism of humans being slaves to the robots is tantamount to humans being slaves of sin... [b]WHAT THE FUCK! That was the biggest load of rubbish I've ever heard!

P.S. Ian, you're been to Hillsong? That would have been scary! Oh yeah, one more thing. Because I was surrounded by so many (hardcore) Christians, I was afraid of doing, and not doing things. A couple of years ago I probably would have turned Christian if I went to a conference like that.

(Edited by Cthenthar at 12:06 pm on June 18, 2003)

[Obsolete Truth]

I went to one of these things when I lived in the US, can't remember the name of it, but it was one of the big African-American ones. My mother and father dragged me to them, and they did in Aus for a while too. But the ones here aren't as good anyway, no hip-hop, only pop music. Not to mention I'm a commie now, a devout atheist.

I have thought about going again just to meet people, but I just don't give a fuck now. All the religious rhetoric scares me!

[Palmares]

Where in Aus you from Obsolete?

[Obsolete Truth]

I'm not a permanent resident, my family moves alot.

Sorry to offend you, but I prefer to keep my personal information private. I do live in a city, but I don't want no stalkers man.

[SlimJin]

I have attended one of these things. I myself LAUGHED MY ASS OFF, to myself of course didn't want to stand out. I believe there is a God but do not actively partcipate in the religion, or pray, ever. It was so funny to see these 13, 14, 15, and 16 yr. old kids who were my age and they were talking about how they were saved. They sounded so ridiculous though I can respect them because that is what they believed I wasn't their to impose my religion of believing in God but not believing enough to participate, I call it Lazy...ism. :) And so I see my cousin who is active in the church he is a little younger than me, And I see him and he is also really into it. It is not a matter of actually believing as I saw through him, but a matter of being brainwashed and repeating what they are told. I said you're lucky about something and he got really pissed off and said Im BLESSED lucky is for people who don't believe in God, I said why do you say that, He went on repeating all that his parents told him about God and how his religion is the right one. I couldn't be angry at him becuase he is too young to know this on his own it was more of the parents. By the way his Padre who by the way is from a Cuban exile. I love the man and my aunt but I see their views as so spontaneous because they did not belive in God until a Year ago and now they are "God's Perfect Little Family". It was this that made me realize what may have happened to me and why I can't seem to let go of the religion I don't even practice.
So back to the topic, Yeah i went it was really wierd it was like watching a brainwashing routine taking place.!:confused: :shocked: