fetish=racism?

[spartan]

i dont know if this is the right place to post this but here i go anyway. do you think that when a man or woman whatever race prefers another man or woman of a different race from theirs just because of this and the different racial charecteristics which they find attractive well do you think this is racist? pornographey exploits this through its interracial,ebony,asian,etc genres but these genres of porn prove to be the most popular as figures show that items of these genres are usually the best selling compared to all the other genres. is it exploiting people just because of their race/ethnicity? any responses would be much appreciated thank you.

[Terminator X]

What you're describing doesn't sound like "racism" in my book.

To me, racism is discriminating against someone because of their race, not preferring someone because of it.

[spartan]

do you think exploiting this fetish in porno and making money off of it is racist?

[spartan]

dosent it reinforce stereotypes that could lead to racism such as all asian women are either submissive or dragon ladies or both when there horny enough.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 06:36 pm
do you think exploiting this fetish in porno and making money off of it is racist?
No it's something liberals call "Diversity"! :D

[Faux Real]

You watch too much porn.

There certainly are, however, those producers who do play off of the "ghetto black girl", "illegal alien latina" "quiet nerdy asian girl" "black guy white girl" stereotypes and situations and that stuff really does tick me off. I wouldn't call it racism quite yet, cause there are people who like that kind of thing. Exploitation, sure. Most girls who enter that business would seem like they're in need of a quick financial fix and don't seem like they enjoy it too much, thus are exploited.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 06:36 pm
do you think exploiting this fetish in porno and making money off of it is racist?
Slimy, yes....racist, no.

However, in the interest of full disclosure, I will admit that I do watch porn.

[spartan]

ha that makes two of us brother.

[rouchambeau]

What you're describing sounds like certain ethnic groups are being exotified which is a form of racism.

[spartan]

yeah but say some days i like to see a really beautiful asian girl getting the shit fucked out of her by a hung white guy does that make me racist for enjoying/liking/viewing it?

[Aurora]

yeah but say some days i like to see a really beautiful asian girl getting the shit fucked out of her by a hung white guy does that make me racist for enjoying/liking/viewing it?
No i dont think so,its just a matter of preference really.Im pretty sure most people watch that because they just prefer it,not because they think people of diferent 'races' are inferior.
Plus its not like you cant get the same stuff of people from the same 'race'.

[TC]

The natural variety in human sexual preference is largely in different physical traits and characteristics...

the parameters of someone's prefered physical traits determine what they can easily, impulsively be attracted to.

Some of the parameters of someone's physical appearance are determined by their geographic genetic origin...because gene clines for certain traits that determine appearance are distributed geographically...and that is correlated to the way society describes ethnicity and race.

So, preference for certain races and ethnicity is to be naturally expected...

Theres nothing more "racist" about preferring people of a race other than your own than preferring people of a sex other than your own is sexist (or, that the reverse would be sexist or racist). These are just potential combinations in people's physical sexual preferences and you really can't help what turns you on so ascribing moral or political value to it is silly.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Having said that, while I don't think there can be any "racism" in partner preference...if someone is interested in watching or producing porn involving power dynamics (bdsm or sadeomasochistic obviously but also just porn featuring a clearly dominate partner) and its the power dynamics that are arousing, not the physical characteristics of the actors, and those power dynamics are informed by racism...than that might be racist.


For instance, if a gay white man likes watching a well endowed black male actor having sex with a white actress (who he's physically disinterested in), and he prefers that the actor is black simply because he prefers black men, thinks a certain type of muscular black guy looks especially hot or whatever, then thats clearly not racist...

...but if a straight white man likes watching a passive white actress getting fucked roughly by a black actor, and he prefers that the actor is black because he gets off on rough, painful, degrading sex, and finds the idea of a *black* man fucking the actress to be more humiliating than where it a white actor; that could reveal a racist attitude.

...Likewise, if the same straight white man preferred seeing east-asian women in the same scene then white women, because he thought of east asian women as being especially vulnerable, weaker and juvinille (say, combined with a japanese school girl fetish) than that could also suggest a racist attitude.

I suspect thats part of whats going on in some of the racial pairings in porn for straight men. I mean, I *don't* look at porn except randomly from advertisements, so I don't have a good survey of it, but I suspect that black males with white females and white males with east asian females or black males with east asian females are much more common combinations in porn aimed at straight white men than white males with black females or east asian males with white females or east asian males with black females.

I mean, I think this description:


yeah but say some days i like to see a really beautiful asian girl getting the shit fucked out of her by a hung white guy does that make me racist for enjoying/liking/viewing it?

is quite telling. The phrase "getting the shit fucked out of her" and specifying that the guy is "hung" seems to indicate that the scene is not suggestive of an active or especially pleasurable role for the female actor but one where she's acted upon as a recipient of someone elses agency for someone elses pleasure...to cast an asian in that role, is telling as asian women tend to be lighter, more adolescent-like built on average than white or black women, and culturally also seen as being especially passive and girlish...likewise casting a white man in that role can also be suggestive of say, the (white male) viewer or a representative of their cultural taking advantage of an especially vulnerable woman, being asian, being moreso than if it was a white or black woman.


Or I could be making false assumptions...and its impossible to really analyze it definitively because its necessarily interpretive...but if one can't be blamed for being oriented towards the types of people they're oriented towards, they can still analyze their reasons for being aroused by seeing those people in particular interactions with others who they aren't sexually interested in in of themselves.

[Marsella]

do you think exploiting this fetish in porno and making money off of it is racist?

In my opinion no. Clearly some pornos have racist generalizations e.g timid asians, illegal latinos. But I don't think the use of genres e.g. ebony, white, asian is racist. It's just purely practical. It would be a right pain if your interested in black girls, for example, and had to go through a 1000 pictures to find something that interested you.

One's sexual preferences are determined genetically, but IMO more significantly socially. Sometimes they are unexplainable; e.g. I'm not attracted to blonde girls in real life or porno, but brunettes on the other hand...

So yeah, categories in porno is not racist. Nor is porno, generally, sexist, as some members in this forum have previously stated.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Man, TC should have a permanent section on this site where she analyses why people are attracted to who they're attracted to, why they like certain kinds of porn, and why they have the relationships they do... ect.

[Red_Pride]

I prefer black women over white, although I am white myself, does that make me racist?

[Aurora]

I prefer black women over white, although I am white myself, does that make me racist?

lol,no of course not.I presume you are just more attracted to black women.

i mean,Yes you are! your a race traitor!stop poluting the aryan race :rolleyes: ;)

[RHIZOMES]

I like East Asians and Middle Eastern women. I find some black women attractive... I do not think that makes me racist. If I went "LOL CHINGCHONG BAD DRIVER" "LOL SAND NIGGERS" and "LOL NIGGER GO GET YOUR WATERMELON" that would be racist. it's simply a personal preference.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Disregarding the inherant personality traits such as submissive asian women which would fall under the racist category;

I don't think simply being attracted more to people of different ethnicities is racist - as many people have said before it's personal preference. I have often made the comparison that race is as significant as hair colour in determining the content of ones character and I'll make the same comparison again.

Being simply attracted to women of an ethnic descent is no different to preferring brunettes over blondes.

[spartan]

what if the steriotype attracts you?

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 12:14 pm
what if the steriotype attracts you?
It's probably something you'd have to look at on an individual basis. The question that should be asked is why the stereotype is attractive. I'm sure there are circumstances that qualify it as racism and circumstances that don't.

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 05:14 am
what if the steriotype attracts you?
In that case, it's probably a feeling of superiority you get from the stereotype. Depends on what stereotype it is.

[Red_Pride]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:03 pm

I prefer black women over white, although I am white myself, does that make me racist?

lol,no of course not.I presume you are just more attracted to black women.

i mean,Yes you are! your a race traitor!stop poluting the aryan race :rolleyes: ;)
I think Hitler's skull just rolled over in its box. :lol:

[LSD]

These are just potential combinations in people's physical sexual preferences and you really can't help what turns you on so ascribing moral or political value to it is silly.

Right, which is why these threads rarely go anywhere productive.

I'm reminded of a CC thread we had a few months back where it was seriously suggested that an unwillingness to date a transexual person made one a "bigot". As I recall, the thread starter suggested that anyone indicating such an unwillingness be sumarily banned form the board! :o

And then just last week, there was this thread (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=69867) where some organization I've never heard of issued a communique in which they "condemned" the "disqualifation" of fat people as sexual partners. As if they had the right to dictate attraction.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but we seem to be getting a lot of these moralistic threads lately, and it's a rather disturbing trend on a board that's supposed to be revolutionary.

There are a number of posters who are far too eager to impose their particular brand of morality on the rest of society. Somehow they see no contradiction in demanding "tolerance" while at the same time not tolerating any divergence from their vision.

Political "tolerance" is important insofar as it signifies the lack of discrimination. Trying to turn "tolerance" itself into some sort of social paradigm, however, is incredibly dangerous territory.


Having said that, while I don't think there can be any "racism" in partner preference...if someone is interested in watching or producing porn involving power dynamics (bdsm or sadeomasochistic obviously but also just porn featuring a clearly dominate partner) and its the power dynamics that are arousing, not the physical characteristics of the actors, and those power dynamics are informed by racism...than that might be racist.

Just because something is "informed" by racism doesn't mean that it must be racist itself, especially when we're dealing with issues of psychology and sexual attraction.


...but if a straight white man likes watching a passive white actress getting fucked roughly by a black actor, and he prefers that the actor is black because he gets off on rough, painful, degrading sex, and finds the idea of a *black* man fucking the actress to be more humiliating than where it a white actor; that could reveal a racist attitude.

...Likewise, if the same straight white man preferred seeing east-asian women in the same scene then white women, because he thought of east asian women as being especially vulnerable, weaker and juvinille (say, combined with a japanese school girl fetish) than that could also suggest a racist attitude.

Actually, I would contend that those situations suggest a stereotypical attitude, or at least one strongly influence by racial stereotypes. There's a significant difference, however, between being touched by socially prevalent stereotypes and being a racist.

The most important being, of course, that one is aware that the stereotypes in question are false. That awareness allows the individual in question to disregard those socialized caricatures and behave in a nonracist manner.

Ultimately, that's all that we can realistically ask of people. Demanding that they not only reject racist cultural values but also somehow excise them from their psyche is as moralistic as it is futile.

In the end, it's really no different from a man or woman with a rape fantasy. They know that rape is an unpleasant and abusive act, and have no intention of raping or being raped. But the fantasy still turns them on. Likewise, someone may know full well that black men are not intrinsically "humiliating" and Asian women are not inherently "submissive", but seeing the two together still ilicits arousing power dynamics in their mind.

That's just the nature of the human subconsious. We're moved by more than our rational understandings. But as you say, since we "really can't help what turns [us] on ... ascribing moral or political value to it is silly."

So while there's nothing wrong with pointing out that a good deal of "interracial" pornography is taking advantage of racial stereotypes and, in a limited sense, promoting them. There's something deeply wrong with accusing anyone who enjoys those films of being a "racist".

Not only do you minimize actual racism and veer into dangerously conservative moral territory, but you also risk alienating that vast swath of the working class that rejects all this postmodern psychobable, and for good reason!

People are attracted to what they're attracted to, making political hay out of it is just plain stupid.


The phrase "getting the shit fucked out of her" and specifying that the guy is "hung" seems to indicate that the scene is not suggestive of an active or especially pleasurable role for the female actor but one where she's acted upon as a recipient of someone elses agency for someone elses pleasure...to cast an asian in that role, is telling as asian women tend to be lighter, more adolescent-like built on average than white or black women, and culturally also seen as being especially passive and girlish...likewise casting a white man in that role can also be suggestive of say, the (white male) viewer or a representative of their cultural taking advantage of an especially vulnerable woman, being asian, being moreso than if it was a white or black woman.

Again, you're probably right in your analysis, but you haven't established how any of that constitutes "racism" in the common sense of the word, nor in fact have you even demonstrated that it's particularly undesirable.

Spartan may well be getting off on the concept of a woman being made the "recipient of someone elses agency for someone elses pleasure" and that may well be accentuated by socialized stereotypes of Asian women, not to mention the physical features you pointed out.

What I fail to see, however, is where the political issue is here.

I don't know Spartan, he's barely been on the board two weeks and I can't say I've even read a single post by him, but my bet would be that he's probably not a racist and, despite what may be rattling around his subconscious, I seriously doubt that his fantasies with regards to Asian woman and black men in any way affects his political outlook or behaviour in everyday life.

Which raises the question of why should I care what turns him on in the privacy of his own home? Why should any of us care?

You've made some interesting observations, but they're irrelevent to the question of whether Spartan himself is "a racist". Something which I suspect, if it came right down to it, you would probably agree that he is not.

Again, there's a reason that these threads rarely end up anywhere useful. They're predicated on the nonsense idea that we have any right to dictate "good" or "bad" attractions or fantasies.

The reality is that there are no such things.

[Angry Young Man]

Why would it be racist? It's just who you find attractive.

Is it fattist if I like slim boys?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Romantic [email protected] 02, 2007 04:26 pm
Is it fattist if I like slim boys?
According to that loony fringe group EK was talking about in another thread, yes.

[Freigemachten]

Originally posted by Romantic [email protected] 02, 2007 04:26 pm
Is it fattist if I like slim boys?
It's actually sexist that you don't like girls.

[Comrade Rage]

I'm fat myself, and I take a lot of crap daily for it. However I've never considered it discrimination if someone doesn't like to date a fat person.