We need action!

[Rhino Thunder Pants]

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it" Karl Heinrich Marx


Although there there are large leftist groups in England there doesn't ever seem to be any action being taken unless its a demontration against an imprealist war. Ofcourse a revolution like the cuban revolution is out of he question at this moment in time and probably in years to come but we need to take some leftist action in order to get the ball rolling and ecourage the youths of today and the future.


I choose this quote not only because its from the great man himself but because what we are doing is the interpreting a leftist world and what we need to be doing is creating one.

I am asking for help and at the same time questioning why there aren't many leftist actions being carried out.

[bolshevik butcher]

What are you doing?

Today I spent quite a lot of my day doing various things for a local campaign I'm helping run aimed at stopping the council selling off up to 22 schools and nurseries and 4 community centres in Edinburgh, not to sound self important it's just an example of work that I think it is importnat that socialists are doing, as well as obvioulsy raising ideas and discussing socialist ideas with people.

I'm part of other organisations and try to raise socialist ideas in them. Class consciousness isn't high enough to validate revolutionary action in Britain just now. It's important that people work where they are, and work to build up the labour and trade union movmeent as well as the socialist movement. Just now in terms of socialism its a case of winning over ones and twos. It's not always easy or exciting but it's imporatnt work, laying the foundations for what is to come.

[Rhino Thunder Pants]

Sorry for the two posts.

I came back from cuba on saturday and during my stay i talked to alot of locals about what they think of there political situation and although they are very poor they refuse to see through capatalist eyes instead they have chosen the life of rations which is barely enough to feed them and coming back to england i realise that inorder to create the foudations of a socialist soceity alot more needs to be done than simply doing local work as that has been happening for the last decade and if u look at the facts more and more people are becoming capatalist. (As cheesy as it may sound) we need to seize the heart of the young as they will be the heart of the revolution and that isnt going to happen doing local work.

[which doctor]

We don't need more actions in the name of leftism, we need more actions in the name of the proletariat.

[Rhino Thunder Pants]

I stand corrected.
thank you

[Iron]

There are many leftist actions being carried just most media skips over it or it gets censored. And a revolution at this time “like your suggesting”... in the UK or USA would be impossible most people when they hear the word communist either think your some kind of fascist or a nut.

[The-Spark]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 02:49 am
There are many leftist actions being carried just most media skips over it or it gets censored. And a revolution at this time “like your suggesting”... in the UK or USA would be impossible most people when they hear the word communist either think your some kind of fascist or a nut.
This is very true in Canada too. Yet, maybe, as an idea, communist parties should all over the world hand out panflets, called the truth of communism. break down the barriers that stopped people from communism before, not only that but we need independent labels making communist movies etc. If we really put our mind to it, we could tear down the walls of propaganda and replace it with what communism really is.

[Coggeh]

Material conditions will determine class consciousness . Watching movies with leftist leanings will make no difference to your ideology if your not socially conscious about class conditions . I've seen people it through movies like wind that shakes the barley , land and freedom and have had no change in their political outlook what so ever . It can publicize an ideology but making movies can do little to win over the masses .

Its grassroot work that wins the masses , its seeing the left campaign constantly on issues that effect the locals life . This wins support for socialism etc . Which is why alot of members stress the need to be organized . Talking about revolution and fantasizing about movies won't get much done .

Its time alot of the comrades on this forum who say their real leftists get out of their armchair and get onto the streets .

[Ismail]

NVM, delete. Was testing something.

[The-Spark]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 06:13 am
NVM, delete. Was testing something. uh.. what?

And maybe i was wrong about the movie thing, but theres so many arguements between communists it than becomes very hard to organize, like one person thinks the soviet union was a perfect workers state, the other thinks the soviet union was no better than any other capitalist country. one person wants to model after the soviet union, one person wants to improve. If we were to organize i think we would need to break down walls between communists before we can break the walls of capitalism

[Ismail]

Originally posted by The-[email protected] 21, 2007 01:19 am
uh.. what?
Well since you're wondering, I was going to include two quotes in my signature. Both from the same thread I now have linked as "lol" in my signature. However, it would not show properly. So I proceeded to go into a random thread and quote someone in order to see the correct format for quoting. However the quote does not show up at first. So I just typed in ssssssssssssssssssssss and hit "preview post" so it would show. However, before doing this I accidentally hit "add reply" and went "Shit." as I realized my mistake.

And so I edited my post and proceeded to go to my signature in an attempt to edit it. The damned quote-in-spoilertag thing didn't work anyway.

You may now all continue with this thread.

[partizan604]

but theres so many arguements between communists it than becomes very hard to organize, like one person thinks the soviet union was a perfect workers state, the other thinks the soviet union was no better than any other capitalist country. one person wants to model after the soviet union, one person wants to improve. If we were to organize i think we would need to break down walls between communists before we can break the walls of capitalism

modern lefts don't need to create new Soviet Union or new Cuba. We should consider mistakes of the past and try not to make them in our future.
first of all every left party, union or movement should be very organised.


Its grassroot work that wins the masses , its seeing the left campaign constantly on issues that effect the locals life . This wins support for socialism etc . Which is why alot of members stress the need to be organized . Talking about revolution and fantasizing about movies won't get much done .

Organization means communication with other parties and movements. In a struggle for people we should not forget about people.
Ideology creates an educational base, so there should be a lot of propoganda, advertisement and so on. But we shouldn't sell our ideology by creating 'communist' movies, etc.


Its time alot of the comrades on this forum who say their real leftists get out of their armchair and get onto the streets .

Not only our left comrades need to go onto the streets!!! Never!!! they are going to die there without any support. our task is to raise everyone who is in the great need for freedom - not everyone is a communist, but most of us are freedom fighters!

[bolshevik butcher]

Where is it going to happen? The best way to reach young people is by you know speaking to them and shwoing that you're sincere through activity. Often local work is an excellent platform on which to raise political ideas. Be this venezuela solidarity work or work against the Iraq war or local campaigns to save things from closure or stop privatisations.

[hajduk]

young people spend the time in front of computer playing games which are made by capitalists....they dont understand what revolution is except if got connection with something they like (games,movies,music etc.) even in that case they just understand to one point, everything else for them is boring
i do some kind of revolution move with my band Dubioza Kolektiv
we play on EXIT festival 2005 in Novi Sad in Serbia and if you know political situation in Serbia you know that radical serbs a.k.a. chetnicks are still in government
so before we play our last song we leave on sound system, audio recording of speeches of politicians from Serbia who judging what serbian chetniks does to bosnian people during 1992-1995
what happened you can see by yourself on

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sffqiiSX7bs

after this lot of people say to us that we make revolution thing with this but afterwhyle nothing actualy changes the same politicians are in government in Serbia and Serbs politicians still whant to destroy my country now with soft radicals which are the same like those before

[The-Spark]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 08:22 am

modern lefts don't need to create new Soviet Union or new Cuba. We should consider mistakes of the past and try not to make them in our future.
first of all every left party, union or movement should be very organised.

Partizan, dont get me wrong i totally agree with you, yet my point was that not all communists agree with this, Stalinists mostly.

[hajduk]

young people spend the time in front of computer playing games which are made by capitalists....they dont understand what revolution is except if got connection with something they like (games,movies,music etc.) even in that case they just understand to one point, everything else for them is boring
i do some kind of revolution move with my band Dubioza Kolektiv
we play on EXIT festival 2005 in Novi Sad in Serbia and if you know political situation in Serbia you know that radical serbs a.k.a. chetnicks are still in government
so before we play our last song we leave on sound system, audio recording of speeches of politicians from Serbia who judging what serbian chetniks does to bosnian people during 1992-1995
what happened you can see by yourself on

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sffqiiSX7bs

after this lot of people say to us that we make revolution thing with this but afterwhyle nothing actualy changes the same politicians are in government in Serbia and Serbs politicians still whant to destroy my country now with soft radicals which are the same like those before

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by Rhino Thunder [email protected] 20, 2007 03:48 pm
Sorry for the two posts.

I came back from cuba on saturday and during my stay i talked to alot of locals about what they think of there political situation and although they are very poor they refuse to see through capatalist eyes instead they have chosen the life of rations which is barely enough to feed them and coming back to england i realise that inorder to create the foudations of a socialist soceity alot more needs to be done than simply doing local work as that has been happening for the last decade and if u look at the facts more and more people are becoming capatalist. (As cheesy as it may sound) we need to seize the heart of the young as they will be the heart of the revolution and that isnt going to happen doing local work.
Feel free to wrap yourself up in a costume and grab an AK47. I'm sure the locals down in South America will be more than happy to have you lend a hand.

If you're real lucky you may even get to ride around with Hugo Chavez in his shiny black Mercedes Benz.

That is of course that you're not executed as a spy before the parade starts.

One person, or even an internet message board full of people cannot incite a revolution.

Don't worry, when the time is right, you'll know it.

[bolshevik butcher]

Wait and see when the time is right? That's not what socialisms about. Sure the mass of class consciousness will be made by events, not books or even a socailist organisation but it's vital that we win over the ones and twos that we can just now in order to prepare the way for when there is a mass class consciousness to give it some form of direction.

We cannot get lost in revolutionary romantacism or adventurism. Building for a revolution is not some sort of easy exciting task that involves spraying bullets everywhere and throwing bricks at police (entirely anyway) in the current time in Britain. It's hard and tiring work, but we need to do it if we are ever to see a revolutionary movement.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Wait and see when the time is right? That's not what socialisms about.

Lucky for me I'm not a Socialist!

Whew! Just think about how embarrassed I would have been at the next bake sale.


Sure the mass of class consciousness will be made by events, not books or even a socailist organisation but it's vital that we win over the ones and twos that we can just now in order to prepare the way for when there is a mass class consciousness to give it some form of direction.

Class consciousness will never come about from selling your rag on a streetcorner or campaigning for a congressional seat. Class consciousness will come about when the people are sick of it and refuse to take it any longer!

Face it, no one needs you to lead the "ones and twos" into an imaginary state of class consciousness just because you say it should be that way.


We cannot get lost in revolutionary romantacism or adventurism.

Agreed!

I however took it to heart and dropped this "Socialist" and "Leninist" charade.

When will you?

[bolshevik butcher]

Mass class consciousness won't come about from my activities. I never said that it would, noone in any leninist organisation I know of is pretending this. But when mass class consciousness comes about what will it do? Where will it look to?

I don't think its imaginary class consciosuness at all. And its not to say that we can't do useful work in the labour and trade union movement and amongst the youth in the mean time. I'd point you to the example of the syndicato d'estudiantes in Spain, a union of studetns both high school and universities which has been effectively able to battle attacks from the ruling class on education in Span and was set up and is headed by marxists.

You're attitude appears to be that since we aren't going to make mass consciousness we should sit and do nothing and just wait for it to appear?

[PigmerikanMao]

Originally posted by Vinny [email protected] 21, 2007 08:23 pm
Class consciousness will never come about from selling your rag on a streetcorner or campaigning for a congressional seat. Class consciousness will come about when the people are sick of it and refuse to take it any longer!
God dammit! Thanks for saying that! I was seriously beginning to think that all of my friends were starting to buy into bourgeois democracy! Thank you for saying that sir! Thanks again!

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by Bol
But when mass class consciousness comes about what will it do? Where will it look to?


Who knows?!

Unless you are some sort of seer your guess is a good as mine. In any case I'm sure you know the exact person that is right for the job of leading the class conscious masses from their stumbling around: You!

Right?


I'd point you to the example of the syndicato d'estudiantes in Spain, a union of studetns both high school and universities which has been effectively able to battle attacks from the ruling class on education in Span and was set up and is headed by marxists.

Great, another group that has no clue what to do about anything at all.

They can't even decide on who's going to ride shotgun in the Benz when they are being carted around from town to town on the campaign trail.



You're attitude appears to be that since we aren't going to make mass consciousness we should sit and do nothing and just wait for it to appear?

Well unfortunately you are dead wrong.

Instead of idly sitting around, I prefer to make an effort to expose Leninist and Socialist bullshit so we can move on to something that works!

[Janus]

Merged

[hajduk]

REVOLUTION ACTION


http://youtube.com/watch?v=_ab7Dksqfnw

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 08:41 pm
We don't need more actions in the name of leftism, we need more actions in the name of the proletariat.
Agreed times 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000

Myself, I currently volunteer at a local collective, and I do some other things I can't disclose at this time. I could be more active, but I need to work.

What do you do, btw?