Business Process Outsourcings ?

[Vargha Poralli]

I have been recently recruited to a voiced BPO or a Call Centre. The department I have recruited in to was inbound technical support voiced BPO which means that I have to sit in front of a Computer monitor and Telephone and attend all the customer queries about a product(In my case it is HP PCs). I am not yet recruited but in training to speak in American English.

The point I wanted to discuss about is how these BPO’s make money. It is very hard for me to understand it in the first place. The minimum pay for those who work in these companies is Rs.10, 000 and the pay scale reaches up to Rs.30, 000 for any non management staff (Team leader is the highest position I think) which is grossly higher in India . What value does we produce and how it is produced (I can see a point in Outbound call centres which basically does Telemarketing).
Even though we are paid higher when compared to other Industries, we have to compromise on working hours. In my training itself I have to sit for about 10 hrs minimum.The surplus value extartcted from our labour is Absolute if I am not wrong.

My question is exactly this. What is the value we produce apart from customer satisfaction ? How is it measured ? How could corporates in America are able to spend this much amount on customer support ?
My one suspicion is the Dollar-Rupee conversion rate - 1 US Dollar = 41.34000 Indian Rupee (http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic)(For American corporations the expense is lower when the Rupee we receive is converted in to Dollars they pay . Apart from it how this Industry sustains ?

The company that has employed me.

http://www.suth.com/index.html

I would like to discuss about the nature of Surplus Value accumulated here(If I am wrong).

And how this business was organised before it is being outsourced ? Like unionising etc ?

I posted this specifically because this Industry until now has been ignored by the Communist and Trade Union movements in India. Even Though we are paid higher we are not exempt from Alienation. And the way most people cope up with it is by indulging themselves in Alcoholism, Drug Abuse and other counter-productive things.

I also like to add up a hypothetical question!! Will this work might/might not be needed in a post revolutionary society ?

[chimx]

The customer service program is generally worked into the cost of the product. Not to mention, a lot of customer service places will charge a fee on top of this. I don't know about HP, but Apple charges about US$50 for you to call up Apple and get help with your computer (they are also often located in India). I doubt that your pay is equal to the fees the companies charge. Workers produce the value of a product (or in this case a service) equal to their wage, plus any additional value, which is the surplus.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by chimx+August 21, 2007 01:50 am--> (chimx @ August 21, 2007 01:50 am)The customer service program is generally worked into the cost of the product. [/b]
So the cost of the HP Personal Computers includes the cost of providing the technical support. In this case the does worker who works in the company manufacturing the HP computers produces the Surplus Value too ?


Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 01:50 am
Not to mention, a lot of customer service places will charge a fee on top of this. I don't know about HP, but Apple charges about US$50 for you to call up Apple and get help with your computer (they are also often located in India).

In many cases it is not a fact. Maybe Apple but most of the companies that outsource to India definitely does not the case I think.We also get some of those products(e.g HP) here too but I think they would be able to provide such support with the price they sell in India.


Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 01:50 am
I doubt that your pay is equal to the fees the companies charge.

Me too certainly.


[email protected] 21, 2007 01:50 am

Workers produce the value of a product (or in this case a service) equal to their wage, plus any additional value, which is the surplus.

This is the one which confuses me a lot. What is the additional surplus value here ? Whose surplus value it is ? Is it the employees of those Call Centres or the employees of HP and OEM's(Original Equipment Manufacturers) ?

[chimx]

In this case the does worker who works in the company manufacturing the HP computers produces the Surplus Value too ?

Presumably.


This is the one which confuses me a lot. What is the additional surplus value here ? Whose surplus value it is ? Is it the employees of those Call Centres or the employees of HP and OEM's(Original Equipment Manufacturers) ?

Well I don't really know the relationship between HP and their Call Centres. Either the owner of the Call Centre receives part of the surplus value by subcontracting the service from HP, in which case excess surplus is no doubt routed to HP as well (although I suppose it is feasible to imagine that subcontracted service centres are financially isolated and HP only receives its profts from other areas of the product). Or if the Call Centre is directly managed through HP, and the profits go directly to HP after the wages of workers and management is paid for.

[Vargha Poralli]

Either the owner of the Call Centre receives part of the surplus value by subcontracting the service from HP,

In this case it is definitely. I am in the payroll of Sutherland not HP.

And my question exactly is who produces this surplus value ? And can services can be considered as goods ?

[chimx]

And my question exactly is who produces this surplus value ?

You do! Because of the service your company supplies, HP is able to increase the overall prices of the computer. That means this portion of the surplus is coming from the work you do. Right?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 09:17 am
The point I wanted to discuss about is how these BPO’s make money. It is very hard for me to understand it in the first place. The minimum pay for those who work in these companies is Rs.10, 000 and the pay scale reaches up to Rs.30, 000 for any non management staff (Team leader is the highest position I think) which is grossly higher in India . What value does we produce and how it is produced (I can see a point in Outbound call centres which basically does Telemarketing).
Even though we are paid higher when compared to other Industries, we have to compromise on working hours. In my training itself I have to sit for about 10 hrs minimum.The surplus value extartcted from our labour is Absolute if I am not wrong.
Thanks for inviting me.

First off, it's hard for me to pinpoint the true labour value of a service given, as opposed to an actual good produced, without a lot more specifics, so I'll try my best here.

On the subject of hours, are those 10 hours in a single day? If so, that's horrendous!


My question is exactly this. What is the value we produce apart from customer satisfaction? How is it measured ? How could corporates in America are able to spend this much amount on customer support?

OK, if I can bring my finance background (http://www.slideshare.net/ddebowczyk/management-accounting-chapter-9/) in. In a production process, there are various types of quality costs: prevention (of producing defective products and services - DPS), appraisal (identifying DPS), internal (rework, scrap, etc.), and external (warranties).

Since I think your line of work is in dealing with your company's external failures, sufficed to say that the value of your labour may actually be higher than the value of manufactured labour down the line, because your task is to ensure that the external failure cost that you're dealing with over the phone doesn't get any higher.

It's all about risk, whether to your life or the company's business (hence why forestry workers and miners get paid higher than a cashier, and why you get paid more than the manufacturing worker down the line).

As for American corporations, even though the business profs talk the talk about a business ideally doing its damndest to incur most of its quality costs in the areas of prevention and appraisal, the "real world" execs tend to be woefully short-sighted. There was once emphasis on five-year strategic goals (and, as Comrade Red noted months ago, these corporate goals were indeed inspired by the Soviet Five-Year and Nazi Four-Year Plans), but now all that matters are quarterly earnings. :(


Even Though we are paid higher we are not exempt from Alienation.

Now that I've read further down into your post, I was right in terms of you guys being paid higher.


And the way most people cope up with it is by indulging themselves in Alcoholism, Drug Abuse and other counter-productive things.

I also like to add up a hypothetical question!! Will this work might/might not be needed in a post-revolutionary society?

In the DOTP proper, hell yeah it'll still be needed. Even if the manufacturing processes become more automated, there is still the risk of defect, and SOMEBODY has to deal with it!



Now, if for some reason my answers above seem a wee bit obscure, then either I'm too technical, or off-topic, or I need to read a bit more into LTV, so please let me know. :( Otherwise, you're asking the right "business" questions.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by chimx
You do! Because of the service your company supplies, HP is able to increase the overall prices of the computer. That means this portion of the surplus is coming from the work you do. Right?

Exactly my thought too. Which I needed to be reassured since the theory of surplus valur fits to my job too. I was some what confused about this when this was discussed with a collegue.

Hammer thank you for giving detailed response. Right now I am trying to understand what you are saying probably I would be back with more questions.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 08:19 am
Hammer thank you for giving detailed response. Right now I am trying to understand what you are saying probably I would be back with more questions.
^^^ You just didn't answer my question of whether you actually worked 10 straight hours in a single day, though. ;)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Comrade, have you read what Marx wrote on 'common products'? It is not only the workers who specifically assembly products that create surplus value, there is a whole process.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 03, 2007 06:53 pm
Comrade, have you read what Marx wrote on 'common products'? It is not only the workers who specifically assembly products that create surplus value, there is a whole process.
Were you asking me that question, or g.ram?

In any event, didn't I imply that in my "business" post above (the "business" perspective with regards to quality costs, from R&D right down to CSR)? :huh:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I was talking to g.ram

[Cheung Mo]

I do BPO work for a telco...Some of the customers get annoyed because I don't speak the same dialect of French as they do. :-(

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by Hammer+September 04, 2007 02:26 am--> (Hammer @ September 04, 2007 02:26 am)
Originally posted by g.ram+August 24, 2007 08:19 am--> (g.ram @ August 24, 2007 08:19 am)Hammer thank you for giving detailed response. Right now I am trying to understand what you are saying probably I would be back with more questions. [/b]
^^^ You just didn't answer my question of whether you actually worked 10 straight hours in a single day, though. ;) [/b]
It depends I think.

For example I currently work in a day shift. My timing is morning 8 to night 8. Within it I have roughly 15 minutes tea break 4 times randomly and an hour of lunch break 12:30 - 1:30. I really don't know the exact timing of 2 night shifts, but i guess definitely they would have breaks of some sort in the 10 hour shift.

Our weekend is just 1 day and it is not uniform to every one. I have Mondays off some one else have Tuesdays and similarly. This is to make sure some one attend the calls of the customers all days of a week and month. And if we work in national holidays without leave it would be Rs.1000 instant payment on the end of the shift.

Our paid leaves are limited to 1.5 day a month and not more than 2 days in 3 months and so on. And continuous absence of more than 2 days must be supported by medical certificate and a valid reasoning if we don't want any actions taken on us.


[email protected]

Comrade, have you read what Marx wrote on 'common products'? It is not only the workers who specifically assembly products that create surplus value, there is a whole process.

No I have not read that. Could you please provide link to it ?


Cheung Mo

I do BPO work for a telco...Some of the customers get annoyed because I don't speak the same dialect of French as they do. :-(

Well in India English is taught in schools along with Mother Toungue. And a bit of training a month to reduce MTI(Mother Toungue Influence) and a month in how American speaks we are probably neutral in our English. The thing we concentrate more in our trining is sounds of "r" , "w" and "v". And also sharpening our listening skills and other communication skills then we are ready for sale ;)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 06:45 am

For example I currently work in a day shift. My timing is morning 8 to night 8. Within it I have roughly 15 minutes tea break 4 times randomly and an hour of lunch break 12:30 - 1:30. I really don't know the exact timing of 2 night shifts, but i guess definitely they would have breaks of some sort in the 10 hour shift.

Our weekend is just 1 day and it is not uniform to every one. I have Mondays off some one else have Tuesdays and similarly. This is to make sure some one attend the calls of the customers all days of a week and month. And if we work in national holidays without leave it would be Rs.1000 instant payment on the end of the shift.

Our paid leaves are limited to 1.5 day a month and not more than 2 days in 3 months and so on. And continuous absence of more than 2 days must be supported by medical certificate and a valid reasoning if we don't want any actions taken on us.
That's worse - 12 hours (including the break time)! :(

How do you manage? :huh: