The Legacy of Thought - Adaptation to Collective Conciousnes

[Lardlad95]

Patterns of thought is the greatest enemy of our movement which has become a decrepid old man complaining about the youth longing for the good ole' days. Only problem is the good ole days are gone and weren't that great to begin with.

The left is concerned with staying put staying in the past.However we must look at ideology through a darwinist perspective, just as darwinism can be applied to society(as well my upcoming Religous Darwinist theory). I'm going to be honest we are losing the mental battle and we deserve to lose it.

The reason we deserve defeat is because we refuse to adapt to the collective conciousness. One thing that humans are incredible at is adaptation, the only species that can change his surroundings to survive. Well the leftist movement must adapt for survival also however survival of the fittest is kicking in and it looks like we are the runts of the pack, we'll be dead before winter.

We do not have the numbers that the right has, the muscle that the right has however we do have an advantage.

Our Legacy of Thought.We have a history, a tradition of thinking outside of the box, of being able to see the problem and fixing it through unconventional means. We have the most bold, intellegent thinkers of all time; CHe Guevara, Karl marX, Malcolm X, Fredrich Engles, Huey Newton, Fidel Castro.

We have a 70+ year old man openly defying the US something Europe,Africa,Asia, and Latin America(excluding Brazil) haven't had the guts to do in ages.
That is bold my brothers, CHe Guevara was one of the only figures to openly put a US president on Blast without hesitation. He tore Kennedy to shreds. Malcolm X is arguably the greatest Debater of ALL TIME. These are our heros, they used the weapon that has been our greatest means of accomplishing goals.

INtellegence is our weapon but we've left it inside the draw to long and the blade is rustier than an Elementary school jungle gym. We haven't used it in ages.

We don't think outside the box anymore, we don't analyze anymore. We used to be able to see the problems in the current system and figure out the problems.

Now we need to take that same spirit and apply it to ourselves.

We are a new generation of socialists and we need to look at the mistakes of the past.

And I mean we need to figure out how to work socialism economicaly,politicaly, and most of all how to educate people.

Lets face it we've fucked up in the past and we need to stop lliving in a failed past, look to the future and figure out why the past failed and why we are going to suceed.

We have to let the past go, assuming that we are going to do shit in the same general manner.


The revolution is mental my brothers and we need to solve these damn problems instead of argueing.

We need to adapt to the mentality of people today so we can educate them to the movement.

Other wise we are coming up on the chopping block and I for one am not about to lose this battle before we get a chance to do it right.

Instead of questioning about when the revolution comes we need to fix the bugs before the revolution even comes(the revolution which by the way is politicla not armed this time)

We ask each other the same questions over and over again.

The most progressive questions we ever ask one another are "can this really work" and even that question is vague to which we give vague answers.

Adaptating my comrades is something we must, not might, do.

[Umoja]

Thank you LL, the Pro-Black Prophet (peace be unto you). I tottally agree.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Umoja on 11:11 pm on May 29, 2003
Thank you LL, the Pro-Black Prophet (peace be unto you). I tottally agree.

As-salaam Alaikum

let us just hope that the rest of the che-ives family agrees with this call to arms

[redstar2000]

LL95, I'm always in favor of creativity--indeed, I never heard of anyone being against it, in principle.

But I don't think it pours forth more freely because someone yells at people be creative, dammit, or die!

Indeed, I suspect creativity, like all other forms of thought, is strongly related to changes in material conditions. Many people will think of new ideas at such time as conditions are "ripe" for those ideas to emerge.

In the meantime, I wouldn't "fall in love" with that "darwinian metaphor", if I were you. It does have a pretty sordid history.

:cool:

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 1:50 am on May 30, 2003
LL95, I'm always in favor of creativity--indeed, I never heard of anyone being against it, in principle.

But I don't think it pours forth more freely because someone yells at people be creative, dammit, or die!

Indeed, I suspect creativity, like all other forms of thought, is strongly related to changes in material conditions. Many people will think of new ideas at such time as conditions are "ripe" for those ideas to emerge.

In the meantime, I wouldn't "fall in love" with that "darwinian metaphor", if I were you. It does have a pretty sordid history.

:cool:


It's not that we need to just suddenly get a stroke of genius and come up with a new idea.

I meant that we need to be disscussing these things.

Figuring out politics and economics isn't art, it's a science.

And science you have to do trial and error, so that means we need to start trying to develop answers to the past's problems.

I honestly think you misunderstood my point

[Pete]

Some comments first on your post LL, and Redstar, before I make my own.

incredible at is adaptation, the only species that can change his surroundings to survive

I would not call that adaptation but the stagnation of the body through the inovation of the mind.

survival of the fittest

This is a common misconception of Darwinism theory. I have The Origin of Specis and I am pretty sure I could find you the exact page where he said Survival of the Fit, not the fittest.

We have a 70+ year old man

Is this Castro, or someone else? I do not quite catch the allusion here.

INtellegence is our weapon but we've left it inside the draw to long and the blade is rustier than an Elementary school jungle gym.

I guess we have better either replace the old gym, or do a clean up. Although most jungle gyms are quite usable and safe even when rusty. The squeaking draws attention which creates change faster than the silent swing.

We have to let the past go, assuming that we are going to do shit in the same general manner.

Let go, yes, but never ever forget the lessons of those who came before us, and always record our lessons for those who will take up the struggle after.

be creative, dammit, or die!

Just like New Hamspire (I think that is the state) "Live free, or die!!

science you have to do trial and error

And you either do it deductively or inductively (this one is wrong). Which should we do. General to specific, specific to general? I personally think we should combine them. Take the general and relate it to the specific while adpating it ever to fit the unique needs of every situation.

I guess I said what I wanted to say through my points.

Pete

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 2:56 am on May 30, 2003
Some comments first on your post LL, and Redstar, before I make my own.

incredible at is adaptation, the only species that can change his surroundings to survive

I would not call that adaptation but the stagnation of the body through the inovation of the mind.

survival of the fittest

This is a common misconception of Darwinism theory. I have The Origin of Specis and I am pretty sure I could find you the exact page where he said Survival of the Fit, not the fittest.

We have a 70+ year old man

Is this Castro, or someone else? I do not quite catch the allusion here.

INtellegence is our weapon but we've left it inside the draw to long and the blade is rustier than an Elementary school jungle gym.

I guess we have better either replace the old gym, or do a clean up. Although most jungle gyms are quite usable and safe even when rusty. The squeaking draws attention which creates change faster than the silent swing.

We have to let the past go, assuming that we are going to do shit in the same general manner.

Let go, yes, but never ever forget the lessons of those who came before us, and always record our lessons for those who will take up the struggle after.

be creative, dammit, or die!

Just like New Hamspire (I think that is the state) "Live free, or die!!

science you have to do trial and error

And you either do it deductively or inductively (this one is wrong). Which should we do. General to specific, specific to general? I personally think we should combine them. Take the general and relate it to the specific while adpating it ever to fit the unique needs of every situation.

I guess I said what I wanted to say through my points.

Pete


No it's adapttation because he making the necassary changes to survive.

survival of the fittest is just easier all right? And I need to read origin of species. but the point is you know what I meant, don't knit pick son.

and I was reffering to castro.

Also please don't get my metaphor wrong. I compared intellegence to a rusty blade and said that blade was rusty like the jungle gym. The Gym was not what the intellegence was being compared to.

And what I meant was is that we aren't using all of our potential anymore..we are just going along with what we already know.

And you are right a squeak brings about change faster than a silent swing.

But guess what as far as the worlds political atmosphere we are damn near silent.

So that squeak of which you speak doesn't seem to exist. I'm aiming to change that.

I understand that we can't forget the past,why do you think I mentioned all those people.

The only problem is that we aren't leaving a legacy. Pleae tell me what any of us have done so far that is comparable to Castro, Marx, Malcolm, or Guevarra?

We have done nothing but bicker for the past few decades. The new left needs to start acting, creating social programs and getting oursleves in positions of influence. As well as developing new ideas.


When i said it was a science I meant we need to study but also develop new ideas.

Scientists base their work on what has already been found, but they still make new discoveries

We base our work on what has been found, but we haven't made any new discoveries and we haven't tried.


I think you also did not fully understand what exactley I was trying to say....this is apparent because of your odd way of distorting my metaphor.

[Pete]

Yes I did not think I understood it the way you meant, but everyone has their own interpretations, thus is life.

We may not have done anything, but ask Genaro. He has been shot fighting for the cause in Venezuala. I have plans that I am on my way to following, starting in the fall I will begin my education process (well I am undergoing it ever, but in the fall it picks up speed). Larissa is working for change. I think the thing is we do not often see the legends until their time is up.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 3:32 am on May 30, 2003
Yes I did not think I understood it the way you meant, but everyone has their own interpretations, thus is life.

We may not have done anything, but ask Genaro. He has been shot fighting for the cause in Venezuala. I have plans that I am on my way to following, starting in the fall I will begin my education process (well I am undergoing it ever, but in the fall it picks up speed). Larissa is working for change. I think the thing is we do not often see the legends until their time is up.

I meant as a whole comrade. Individuals not the movement are making strides.

And I personally believe we all need to make change together, especially political changes.

I am very proud of Larissa she is one of the few comrades i see following up on her beliefs.

Good luck to you in your studies

[Pete]

My studies (especially the learning spanish part) are to join with Comrade Larissa's chagnes. If we can work together, than slowly the change can happen. The more working the faster it can come. I may find a use for my self here in Canada before my 3rd year, and if so I would stay here and devote my self, if not their is a cause that needs helping.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 4:18 am on May 30, 2003
My studies (especially the learning spanish part) are to join with Comrade Larissa's chagnes. If we can work together, than slowly the change can happen. The more working the faster it can come. I may find a use for my self here in Canada before my 3rd year, and if so I would stay here and devote my self, if not their is a cause that needs helping.

Larissa has her own battles to fight...you should find a way to work in Canada as I and others work in the US

If changes can be made in canada then that will make it easier for comrades here and vice versa

[Pete]

That I know. But I want to see different areas of the world, just a lust. As well as learning langauges. I think gaining the outside perspective would be that much more powerful to any internal movement. You cannot operate in a vacuum, and foreign media may cover things where local does not. Experience matters too.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 4:39 am on May 30, 2003
That I know. But I want to see different areas of the world, just a lust. As well as learning langauges. I think gaining the outside perspective would be that much more powerful to any internal movement. You cannot operate in a vacuum, and foreign media may cover things where local does not. Experience matters too.

However if you learn as you go along, and work your way to the head of an organization you create your own experience.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be well traveled but I'm also not saying it's essential

[Pete]

That is truth.

Now how do we over run all of the theists with existentialism? That is a question that I think I just raised in the wrong place.

Going back to the original post, if you could sum up what you where saying in a sentence or two so that myself and Redstar could know your point (I honestly believe it is past me) could you do so? Merci.

[inessa1917]

i wanted to reflect at the topic starter message at first when i read it, but i didn't have the time. but i see that the other comrades found it very interesting and actual, so my reaction will not be that "from sratch" stuff. so.

well, your words are really true. i myself feel the same about the movement. and i know that it's not that muddy half-peripherical spleen. i know that the situation is not much better at all in the west.

i think the possible explanation of these phenomena that now we see the people's minds determined by the "postmodern" (uh, how do i hate this word! :-( ) being. if you look at the culture of nowadays, you'll see the same. this is the age of collages and remixes -- everything lacks the originality, every art, and even the philosophy wouldn't create new things, only tries to imitate the past. just try to read some contemporary stuff. so the crisis of the leftist movement & theories is not something unique at all. and this all is caused by the crisis of our time, this only shows that in what historical period we're living in.

i think when these conditions change, everything will change. and i think it will be soon. rather soon. but we cannot wait until this happens. we have to try find new ways. but how exactly? as far as i see from here, i think we should try to find new ways to the people. i thik the thing is in the communication of our goals. but this doesn't mean that we should commercialise ourself for this. imho this is the greatest problem of the western, "euro-communist" parties. they'd give their radicalness for being conform with the ruling powers. we should clearly distinguish ourselves from the mainstream, but we should stay in living contact with the proletariat. and i think we should start to collect the things we could learn from the history of the movement -- not in a "nostalgic" style, but from a critical perspective. there are rather important issues in that, too.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from inessa1917 on 6:38 am on May 30, 2003
i wanted to reflect at the topic starter message at first when i read it, but i didn't have the time. but i see that the other comrades found it very interesting and actual, so my reaction will not be that "from sratch" stuff. so.

well, your words are really true. i myself feel the same about the movement. and i know that it's not that muddy half-peripherical spleen. i know that the situation is not much better at all in the west.

i think the possible explanation of these phenomena that now we see the people's minds determined by the "postmodern" (uh, how do i hate this word! :-( ) being. if you look at the culture of nowadays, you'll see the same. this is the age of collages and remixes -- everything lacks the originality, every art, and even the philosophy wouldn't create new things, only tries to imitate the past. just try to read some contemporary stuff. so the crisis of the leftist movement & theories is not something unique at all. and this all is caused by the crisis of our time, this only shows that in what historical period we're living in.

i think when these conditions change, everything will change. and i think it will be soon. rather soon. but we cannot wait until this happens. we have to try find new ways. but how exactly? as far as i see from here, i think we should try to find new ways to the people. i thik the thing is in the communication of our goals. but this doesn't mean that we should commercialise ourself for this. imho this is the greatest problem of the western, "euro-communist" parties. they'd give their radicalness for being conform with the ruling powers. we should clearly distinguish ourselves from the mainstream, but we should stay in living contact with the proletariat. and i think we should start to collect the things we could learn from the history of the movement -- not in a "nostalgic" style, but from a critical perspective. there are rather important issues in that, too.

you pose an interesting thought.

Yes it is true the entire retro (god how I hate this word) movement has taken over every aspect of society to the point in which there is no progression


Unless you count telecommunications cuz they develop a new cellphone every two seconds

[anti machine]

entertainment and the media have fused to such an extent that the people's attention span has undergone an almost irreparable damage. THey don't want to stay awake listening to the debates of Malcolm X-they'd rather watch E!. Infiltration into the media and politics is an excellent suggestion, as armed struggle in America would be fruitless and, moreover, suicidal.

I agree with lardlad, however. the socialist voice needs a platform, not an online forum.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from anti machine on 10:36 pm on June 3, 2003
entertainment and the media have fused to such an extent that the people's attention span has undergone an almost irreparable damage. THey don't want to stay awake listening to the debates of Malcolm X-they'd rather watch E!. Infiltration into the media and politics is an excellent suggestion, as armed struggle in America would be fruitless and, moreover, suicidal.

I agree with lardlad, however. the socialist voice needs a platform, not an online forum.


forums aren't bad, I mean we certainly can't afford the huge think tanks like the republicans have so we must find some where to think and disscuss

but disscussion is only one part, we need to come with the action and creativity