Single issue groups

[Dr Mindbender]

The recent 'climate change groups' are all over the UK news. Are these people really revolutionary progressive thinkers or are they simply twatish privileged life-stylist middle class mummys boys and girls who are simply taking these serious issues out of the revolutionary context and into the playing field of reformism?

[Joby]

The climate change people seem just as brainwashed as, say, Evangelicals or fundamentalist muslims.

They don't even look at the debate many real scientists have raised questioning the ties between global warming and carbon emissions (the fact that Mt. St. Helens released massive amounts of Carbon emissions, for example, or that fact that other planets in the solar system are warming at the same or a faster rate than earth.) All debate on the issue is silenced by these people who are so bandwagony it makes me want to start a single issue group -- and find a way to make a lot of money off it!

[LSD]

The recent 'climate change groups' are all over the UK news. Are these people really revolutionary progressive thinkers or are they simply twatish privileged life-stylist middle class mummys boys and girls who are simply taking these serious issues out of the revolutionary context and into the playing field of reformism?

Somewhere between the two, unfortunately usually leaning more towards the latter.

Keep in mind though, most "climate change groups" legitimately believe that they are in the right and that the "environmental crisis" is the most serious problem we've got.

Earnestness does not negate error, of course, but it's important to remember that these people are not seeking to be dicks -- they're trying to "save the world".

As such, it's kind of pointless to call them names or otherwise insult their "movement". It can be good fun to be sure, but many of these groups contain the seeds of genuinely progressive movements. 'Cause unlike in other "middle class mummy boys and girls" causes, for the most part, the environmental movement tends to have a definitive if not anti-capitalist, certainly anti-corporatist attitude.

That can be harnessed into something eminently useful.

And despite what the more hardline "anti-green" folks might contend, there's really nothing particularly dangerous about the contemporary green movement. Sure, they like to go on about "conservation" and the need to "limit growth", but that usually manifests as demanding that corporations spend a little more and waste a little less.

As you say, most of these groups are made up of priviledged middle class first-worlders. They're not about to give up their advantages, and so they're hardly in a position to force any one else to either.

So unlike, say, the ALF or other truly radicalize "environmental" groups, the mainstream green movement is pretty much 100% benign -- and may just provide a useful recruiting ground for actually revolutionary organizations.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by LSD

Earnestness does not negate error, of course, but it's important to remember that these people are not seeking to be dicks -- they're trying to "save the world".
Despite their good intentions, I cant help feeling they are in some ways counterproductive; they bring to light problems caused by capitalism without proposing revolutionary solutions and this in some way legitimises 'capitalist solutions' Example A- Third world poverty and the whole 'Live 8' fad. Then for a while society forgets about it for a while like some sick 'fashion craze' because in its conscience 'its done its bit'.We all know these are shortlived solutions and do nothing but trim the leaves off the capitalist weed.
So in short they should either join the revolutionary concensus or STFU.

[hajduk]

i think there is big possibilty that they accept revolution like some kind of fashion...i dont believe they are real revolutioners

[Dr Mindbender]

Absolutely, like these clowns who used to go round in the early 00's with their 'Cuba' and 'CCCP' hoodies. I suspect this has been a beourgious strategy for sometime now, to turn marxism into a 'trend' in the hope that it will die out eventually like ninja turtles or the crazy frog.
I concerns me though that these single issue fools will turn climate change into a self perpetuating cycle with no long term solutions, much like Geldof and Bono are doing regarding Africa. Saving a few villages here and there is all well and good, but without destroying the status quo it can only get worse overall. I wonder if old Bob will be around in another 20 years to complete his 'Live' trilogy.

Petit beourgiouse fool. :angry:

[Severian]

Are they revolutionaries? Of course not.

Are they doing some useful, progressive work which revolutionaries should participate in, bringing a class-struggle perspective to it? Maybe, and it probably depends case-by-case.

Climate change is now accepted as real by most climate scientists, including some who were sceptical until recently.

But there's still the question: what to do about it? Not an easy question, and lemme suggest: It is a political not just a scientific question. Like all political questions, it is a class question, and it is possible to give a progressive or reactionary answer to it.

So what I'd ask is: what program should be advance to deal with climate change? And the solutions proposed by these different groups, how close or far are they from that?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 01:27 pm
Are they doing some useful, progressive work which revolutionaries should participate in, bringing a class-struggle perspective to it? Maybe, and it probably depends case-by-case.
^^^ Here's a case question: what about those single-issue groups who advocate spoiling ballots instead of voter abstention? [I'm linking this to a past thread of mine regarding spoiled ballots.]

[RedAnarchist]

Single-issue groups need to realize that many issues are connected. For instance, gay and women's rights are connected because homosexuals and women are oppressed groups in capitalist society.

In my opinion, it would be highly hypocritical if these climate change protesters didn't also support animal rights and protest against globalisation.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ But you're overestimating class consciousness in the developed world at this time. I guess now is the appropriate time to link this thread with the recent Learning thread on class consciousness (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=70623).



EDIT: Here's another NGO idea (new Politics thread): banning corporate "personhood" (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=70696&st=0&#entry1292375872)