Voters Record at Cuban Polls

[Dominicana_1965]

Havana, Aug 13 (Prensa Latina) Voters' participation in the Cuban elections has always surpassed 95 percent of those registered as of 1976, as an expression of the democratic nature of the system.

According to statistics, prior to another electoral process in the island, people's participation has been increasing since the promulgation of the Socialist Constitution and the Electoral Law that year.

About 5,655,877 people voted in 1976 to reach 95.2 percent of the existing electoral roll and surpass another previous figure.

But that figure was continuously increasing in the following voting when counting 96.9 percent in 1979, 97.2 in 1981, until exceeding 98 percent in 1984, 1989 and 2000, and maintains over 97 percent in the remaining electoral process.

The extensive presence of people in each of those polls, something impossible in the pre-revolutionary Cuba and several countries of the world, has to do with particularities of the national electoral system.

These and other reasons stress the differences with systems where the purchase of candidates and votes prevail, as well as indifference of the people when voting.

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={8...C})&language=EN (http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={8A645E6E-0279-43A8-8EC1-F6A76FED61BC})&language=EN)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

No suprise, considering the police will come to your door and ask you questions if you don't vote.

If you don't go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits. I wouldn't be suprised at all if that also happens if you don't vote, but I haven't heard of a particular case.

[redflag32]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 06:59 pm
No suprise, considering the police will come to your door and ask you questions if you don't vote.

If you don't go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits. I wouldn't be suprised at all if that also happens if you don't vote, but I haven't heard of a particular case.

If you don't go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits.

Where did you hear this? News to me,id be interested to know more on this if you can point me in the right direction?

[metalero]

No he won't; he's been refuted several times about his obsession with the cuban revolution. There's a frequent topics of discussion thread in poltics, check the articles on this subject.

[ComradeR]

NWOG seems obsessed with demonizing the Cuban revolution, yet the only evidence he can produce is his claim that his been to Cuba. And yet when he's presented with evidence that contradicts what he says he just dismisses it.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

This has happened to people I know. It was a family member of a close friend of mine.

It could also be that if the police won't go to the door and ask questions their employee will. And from there they could in the worst case scenario lose their job, or be downgraded and certainly never climb the ladder at the workplace.


NWOG seems obsessed with demonizing the Cuban revolution

There is a clear difference between stating the obvious (well obvious to Cubans who live in Cuba at least) and demonizing. The Cuban revolution has done many great things and I myself am I great admirer, but that does not exclude the fact that this happens.

Just because this is very clear to Cubans because it has happened before to them or people they know, and will happen again doesn't mean that they don't support the Cuban government, moderately or more actively. The question is: Do you support the Cuban government even though it does things like this? I know I do, moderately. Just like most Cubans.

And you also have to realize just because this happens doesn't mean Fidel or Raúl or Carlos Lage get a report where it says this one person hasn't voted and then they personally order police or their boss to ask them questions and so on. That is not how things work. A lot of the bureaucracy in Cuba doesn't work like that; The government may make guidelines and the middle managers may have some unwritten rules handed down, but a lot of the decisions are made by these, middle administrators, local bigwigs. And to be certain, these people often judge these guidelines and unwritten rules in a "conservative" manner, just to be on the safe side. Sometimes it may happen, sometimes not. That is often how Cuba works. Laws being interpreted and enforced by local administrators and so on. So what may be allowed in one place, in one local area, may not in another. It is often based on local decision making.

Next time, try to discuss the subject and not go for personal attacks.

If you think the actions of the Cuban govt and middle administrators are so bad, that is up to you. But you wouldn't be suprised about this if you for instance happen to have a Cuban wife or husband, or family in Cuba, or something like that.

[YKTMX]

Please don't abuse us with this nonsense, it's offensive to intelligent people.

Pointing to "election" turnout as a sign of the "health" of workers' democracy in Cuba is like saying every young guy who joins the army just happens to want a crew cut.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah, that's exactly the same. Oh wait, no it isn't.

Of course, elections are just one part of Cuban democracy. The fact that Cuban workers and farmers are involved in building socialism on a daily basis is the main part.

YHSKOW does his typical Cliffite anti-communist posturing here. He belongs to a tendency that has traditionally cozied up to bourgeois "democracy," but he slanders a workers' state where democratic elections (with no direct interference by the CP) are held.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 14, 2007 02:06 pm
Yeah, that's exactly the same. Oh wait, no it isn't.

Of course, elections are just one part of Cuban democracy. The fact that Cuban workers and farmers are involved in building socialism on a daily basis is the main part.

YHSKOW does his typical Cliffite anti-communist posturing here. He belongs to a tendency that has traditionally cozied up to bourgeois "democracy," but he slanders a workers' state where democratic elections (with no direct interference by the CP) are held.
Which bourgeois democracies have the SWP ever "cozied" up to? I can't think of any. The approach has always been that "bourgeois democracy" and "state monoploy capitalism" are the same thing - neither worse nor better than each other. This applies to your little Stalinist outpost as much as it does anywhere else.

And the Cuban people have no say in "building socialism" in their country, most are too busy getting by in spite of the grinding poverty in that country. But CDL, you're welcome to your fantasies, I just hope that comrades like yourself can cope better than the last lot when it all comes falling down around your ears - as it inevitably will.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by redflag32+August 13, 2007 11:05 pm--> (redflag32 @ August 13, 2007 11:05 pm)
[email protected] 13, 2007 06:59 pm
No suprise, considering the police will come to your door and ask you questions if you don't vote.

If you don't go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits. I wouldn't be suprised at all if that also happens if you don't vote, but I haven't heard of a particular case.

If you don't go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits.

Where did you hear this? News to me,id be interested to know more on this if you can point me in the right direction? [/b]
NWOG can't point to anything to verify his claims when it comes to Cuba. Largely because his claims are completely baseless. He may claim that he knows someone who "escaped" from Cuba and who can verify all these claims but that's about it.


I just hope that comrades like yourself can cope better than the last lot when it all comes falling down around your ears - as it inevitably will.

People have been saying this since 1959 and yet Cuba is still going strong, it may not be a utopian dreamland, but overall its citizens are far beter off than those living in anyother Latin American country. So when it comes to Cuba "collapsing" I wouldn't hold your breathe.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

NWOG can't point to anything to verify his claims when it comes to Cuba.

Can't exactly quote Granma :rolleyes:

First, I can't verify my "claims" since I don't videotape my conversations with Cubans.
Second, these things happen and Cubans know it since they experience from time to time such less-than-pleasant episodes. You denying or accepting this fact won't change a bit; it is happening wether you like it or not.

But I suggest you join some sort of Cuban traveler forum. A lot of these places have people who have family in Cuba, married a Cuban, or have stayed there during several months. There you will most likely find some suprises, certainly if all your information on Cuba comes from official Cuban government and their fan base.

Because I had the same views you had, I believed Cuba was socialist and democratic and so on. Until I got in touch with Cubans, talked to people who have lived there for months at a time, etc.


He may claim that he knows someone who "escaped" from Cuba

You are out of line here.

No one on here trust exile-Cubans. We are not talking about exile-Cubans.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by redflag32+August 13, 2007 11:05 pm--> (redflag32 @ August 13, 2007 11:05 pm)
[email protected] 13, 2007 06:59 pm
No suprise, considering the police will come to your door and ask you questions if you don't vote.

If you don't go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits. I wouldn't be suprised at all if that also happens if you don't vote, but I haven't heard of a particular case.

If you don't go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits.

Where did you hear this? News to me,id be interested to know more on this if you can point me in the right direction? [/b]
NWOG only offers anecdotal evidence. He is incapable of providing any other kind. NWOG is also incapable of hearing anything pro-Cuban revolution, even if it is a fact that comes from bourgeois sources. It's a common metaphysical affliction that bourgeois apologists suffer from.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

PRC-UTE, you are both using personal attacks and lying. Really, get a grip&#33; <_< When you lie you are hardly any better than the average gusano, since you lie and try to discredit by all means in order to have things fit your way. Get a sense of honesty, will you? Anything else is a bad habit, and will hit right back at you. And as a communist you have a reputation to consider. You are a rolemodel. A communist should try to stay honest, setting a good example.

This is no joke. You should think about this because everytime you talk to a worker not class conscious and if they know you are a communist and you start behaving badly like you did now you are not contributing, you are like a virus within the workers movement.


NWOG is also incapable of hearing anything pro-Cuban revolution

Totally false. In fact, the largest leftist party of Norway have used one of my writings on their party website in defence of the Cuban revolution. The major sources for statistics in that writing? Leo Huberman and Paul Sweezy.

If you are a Norwegian citizen I shall invite you the forum (I believe it is the largest in Norway, operated by VG) where I defend Cuba on a daily basis. Both Cuban government loyal and bourgeois sources used. Even used pro-Cuban sources here on revleft back in the day, I&#39;m pretty sure.

We are all revolutionaries here. If what Granma and the Cuban government&#39;s fan base says is true, we would have been very happy. We would have a socialist nation in this world. That would be great&#33;

But the fact is that some of what the Cuban regime and their fan base say
is true, a lot of it half-true and some, not true.

[PRC-UTE]

don&#39;t say things like &#39;the dinosaurs are dying&#39; refering to cuban revolutionaries and then whine about getting personal.

I think I"ll just use your argument style against you, NWOG, as I just did in my pm responding to yours: my cousin&#39;s room mate&#39;s close family member says you&#39;re an apologist for the bourgeoisie.

[TC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 06:59 pm
No suprise, considering the police will come to your door and ask you questions if you don&#39;t vote.
Yah, right. Apart from the fact that thats a total lie that you made up on the spot without any evidence or references, just think how practical that would be.

95-98% of registered cuban voters vote in cuba...that means that of the people who already bothered to register to vote, 2-5% of them don&#39;t end up doing it for whatever reason...

about 5,700,000 people vote in Cuba according to the article...but there are about 9,300,000 Cubans who are old enough to vote (15 year olds and under don&#39;t vote).

So, total voter turn out is more like 61%...(not exactly because, for one, i rounded numbers, and because the figure for the vote count was from 1976 and the one i&#39;m using for population is from the CIA&#39;s 2007 report, but since Cuba has a consistently negative population growth rate I doubt the population was smaller in 1976)

Which would mean the police would have to harass like, 39% of the island...

Think thats possible? An efficient use of resources?? Can you imagine how much it would cost to knock on 3,600,000&#39;s people&#39;s doors and intimidate them, apparently to no affect?


If you don&#39;t go to a demo, you may lose some non-static benefits

LOL yah right. How do you think you could possibly figure out who shows up to mass open air demos in say, Plaza de la Revolution Havana? Think the cops write down everyone&#39;s name and put them on a registry of people to get benefits when there are millions present and they&#39;re only there for a few hours? Does that seem plausible to you??

[ComradeR]

There is a clear difference between stating the obvious (well obvious to Cubans who live in Cuba at least) and demonizing. The Cuban revolution has done many great things and I myself am I great admirer, but that does not exclude the fact that this happens.
Ok, if it&#39;s so obvious would you mind posting some evidence from a trustworthy source here?

A question, if this is true and Cuba is nothing more then a Stalinist police state as you and YKTMX describe it as, then why is it that the people have never made any attempts at an uprising? I mean if it&#39;s so horrible that the police will come drag you off, and/or you&#39;ll be fired and have your personal property seized just for not voting or going to a rally then why do the people support the revolution so? I mean if it were that totalitarian i sure as hell wouldn&#39;t take it, and last year when Fidel fell ill and it wasn&#39;t clear what was going on would have been a perfect opportunity for something and yet..nothing happened, now why is that?

When you lie you are hardly any better than the average gusano, since you lie and try to discredit by all means in order to have things fit your way. Get a sense of honesty, will you? Anything else is a bad habit, and will hit right back at you. And as a communist you have a reputation to consider. You are a rolemodel. A communist should try to stay honest, setting a good example.
Maybe you should listen to your own advice. At lest back up your argument with some evidence from a trustworthy source.


First, I can&#39;t verify my "claims" since I don&#39;t videotape my conversations with Cubans.
Second, these things happen and Cubans know it since they experience from time to time such less-than-pleasant episodes. You denying or accepting this fact won&#39;t change a bit; it is happening wether you like it or not.
You know it&#39;s kind of hard to just take you at your word when you&#39;ve displayed such a biased attitude against Cuba in the past, like describing the death of a great revolutionary like Vilma Espin as "The dinosaurs are dying".

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Which would mean the police would have to harass like, 39% of the island...

Think thats possible? An efficient use of resources?? Can you imagine how much it would cost to knock on 3,600,000&#39;s people&#39;s doors and intimidate them, apparently to no affect?

Maybe it was an exaggeration to indicate that the police or boss will automatically come at the door, but I know it has happened to Cubans, Cubans I know. How often this happens I don&#39;t know, but it does happen.

You&#39;ll have to remember that things and unwritten rules and guidelines in Cuba are different from area to area, and a lot of decisions on the ground are made by local party bigwigs, employees and administrators. A whole lot of stuff is up to them.


How do you think you could possibly figure out who shows up to mass open air demos in say, Plaza de la Revolution Havana?

Not entirely sure, but the last rally I went to in Cuba was pretty organized, and it seemed people went to spesific spots according to their workplace or municipiality.


I mean if it&#39;s so horrible that the police will come drag you off, and/or you&#39;ll be fired and have your personal property seized just for not voting or going to a rally then why do the people support the revolution so?

Drag you off? What are you talking about?

Things in Cuba are rarely or never "horrible". Local party bigwigs and so on can be bothering and for a few a real pain in the ass but it is rarely dramatic.

People support the revolution because of stability, a whole range of benefits like near-free healthcare, free education, social security, free housing, etc. The Cuban government takes care of citizens from craddle to grave. In Cuba, if your son gets hit by a truck, he will be sent to hospital. If that same thing happens in Jamaica, all a father or mother can do is to pray. And the local doctor generally lives in a luxurious house and drives a fancy black car. Unfortunately most Cubans do not compare themselves to their carribean or south american neighbours but to the U.S.


like describing the death of a great revolutionary like Vilma Espin as "The dinosaurs are dying".

Like I said in that very same thread:


lthough slightly melancholic, it is about time they are replaced. There are many many things that are wrong in Cuba and that the people are opposed to or at least don&#39;t like but haven&#39;t been corrected.

A shift of leadership might just create more connection with the masses, and maybe wash away some of the deformity that exist in Cuban society.

Maybe then there will be an awakening for a largely dormant section of the population

[Colonello Buendia]

let me start by saying that im pro cuba, secondly i would recomend that we quit posting personal attack against eachother. NWOG may have no evidence but we should keep an open mind cuz otherwise we will be acting like fascists. remember that we are all comrades here so we should help eachother instead of having slagging matches. :hammer: :che: :castro: :cuba: :cuba: :castro: :che: :hammer: :redstar: