Regarding Cuba

[Demogorgon]

I have always ben a bit sceptical of Cuba, obviously I have regarded it as better off than it would have been were it fully capitalist, and certainly Castro is better than Batista, but all the same I have not regarded it as exactly being a model for anywhere else, and certainly thought it had much room for improvement.

Well I am not about to cast that view just yet, but I was certainly made to give some thought to it today. I was out with a friend today and met another of his friends who is over here for Guana, I believe, studying. Anyway the important point is that her sister is currently studying in Cuba, but is over here in Scotland for a visit. Anyway she has painted Cuba in a quite different light altogether, good quality education, free for even foreign students, free housing (though proving some things are the same world over, student flats, tend to be rather ugly sixties buildings :lol: ), free food for those who need it etc. She hasn't painted it as a utopia or anything. Some stuff apparently takes ages to get because you have to order it from abroad and so on.

Obviously I am still rather sceptical of Cuba. It is not exactly sufficiently democratic. The voting system isn't fair and the Communist party is always able to get at least half the seats regardless and so on. But the standard of living has been painted as quite good. I am not fool enough to simply take the word of one witness on everything. But it does make you wonder. Certainly make you wonder how things would be without the trade blockade.

[TC]

Cuba is totally democratic, at least as democratic as its possible to run a central government and its much more democratic than any other nation (except maybe Venezuela which is about equally democratic on paper but in reality less democratic because it retains private property which can be used to manipulate election results) and the voting system is entirely fair.

Cuba has mass participation in government and social organization in a way that no other country does. Most Cubans participate directly in the organs of state power through the mass organizations and the committees in defense of the revolution which provide grass roots democracy that forms the foundation of state power to the central levels. The same isn't true anywhere else to the same extent.

[IronColumn]

Cuba is and has always been a state capitalist dictatorship under the CCP, so I am a bit bewildered as to how you could think it's not "fully capitalist". Cuba is a only a model for the putrid statist revolutionaries who try to strangle the libertarian elements out of every revolution they can.

[The-Spark]

I believe Cuba is a great country to live in, but will it stay that way when Raul comes to power? I know he has more or less already taken Fidel's place.

[RNK]

I've heard that Raul's already started to impliment Deng-style "market reforms" to try and strengthen the market. I'm not particularly concerned with Raul, though. I'm more concerned about after Raul dies -- he's not going to last much longer than Fidel.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I'd recommend reading this piece (http://rs2k.revleft.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1116640062&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&)

[The-Spark]

Well i would have to say that Cuba should be striving towards communism if anything, not strenghtening their economy.

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 06:03 pm
Cuba is totally democratic, at least as democratic as its possible to run a central government and its much more democratic than any other nation (except maybe Venezuela which is about equally democratic on paper but in reality less democratic because it retains private property which can be used to manipulate election results) and the voting system is entirely fair.

Cuba has mass participation in government and social organization in a way that no other country does. Most Cubans participate directly in the organs of state power through the mass organizations and the committees in defense of the revolution which provide grass roots democracy that forms the foundation of state power to the central levels. The same isn't true anywhere else to the same extent.

This is my understanding as well. It is a completely democratic in the local regions. From there they send represntatives to the national level. If there are mostly Communist representation nationally, its because it starts grassroots first.

You have to understand the dept of loyalty Cubans have revolution ideology. It litterally saved these peoples lives and gave them a quality standard of living compared to the oppression of the Baptista Regime.

One of my goals at this point in my life, is to visit Cuba before Castro dies and see for myself this amazing piece of 20/21st century history. After all Castros most famous quotes is "History will obsolve me." And I believe it already has.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by The-[email protected] 10, 2007 11:07 pm
I believe Cuba is a great country to live in, but will it stay that way when Raul comes to power? I know he has more or less already taken Fidel's place.
Remember that Raul was a communist first before Fidel. In fact it was Raul who made Fidel turn to the communist idealogy. So I have to believe that nothing will change for the worse under Raul...........but after..............IDK, I will hopefully be going there next year.

[Dominicana_1965]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 11:03 pm
Cuba is and has always been a state capitalist dictatorship under the CCP, so I am a bit bewildered as to how you could think it's not "fully capitalist". Cuba is a only a model for the putrid statist revolutionaries who try to strangle the libertarian elements out of every revolution they can.
The Communist Party of Cuba doesn't contain candidates. It can't introduce candidates to any of the elections, whether it was provincial/municipal or national. The CCP doesn't direct the country.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The Truth About Cuba (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/ry/rys5a.html)

Let's Talk About Cuban Democracy (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/ry/rys5b.html)

[partizan604]

You have to understand the dept of loyalty Cubans have revolution ideology. It litterally saved these peoples lives and gave them a quality standard of living compared to the oppression of the Baptista Regime.

i agree.
i think somehow ideology of cuban people saved this country from economical starvation.


I believe Cuba is a great country to live in, but will it stay that way when Raul comes to power?

Raul is not a fool and may become the first man at Cuba.
but nobody knows what will happen if Fidel dies. of course US governement will 'say it's word'.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Raul has been acting president for the last year.

[partizan604]

Raul has been acting president for the last year.


but still Fidel is the leader, he is #1. Raul is not the leader of cuban people, he was always at the back of Fidel.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 10:42 am

Raul has been acting president for the last year.


but still Fidel is the leader, he is #1. Raul is not the leader of cuban people, he was always at the back of Fidel.
Fidel wouldn't have handed power over to Raul if he felt he was still capable of governing. Raul is calling the shots, at least for the time being.

[TC]

Whether or not Fidel or for that matter Raul Castro is alive or dead is totally irrelevant to Cuban socialism: The revolution is institutionalized on every level of society; there is no effective counter-revolutionary threat; workers control of the economy and state apparatus is absolute.


In order for a counter-revolution to occur there would have to be a counter-revolutionary class and none exists in Cuba. Fidel Castro doesn't even have an active role in the government. Him dying isn't going to bring capitalism back to Cuba anymore than Nelson Mandela dying would bring apartheid back to South Africa.

To think that way personifies politics and substitutes Marxist analysis for the liberal "great man theory of history".

[Karl Marx's Camel]

there would have to be a counter-revolutionary class and none exists in Cuba.

What would you call the mid-level administrators, bosses and party members that use the system in every way they can and are awarded by the system in order to make their life comfortable?

A strata?


You have to understand the dept of loyalty Cubans have revolution ideology. I

The older generations, absolutely. The generations born after 1959, not so much. It varies. It varies between individual to individual, rural to urban areas, major tourist areas (for instance Havana is known to be one of the more demoralized cities compared to others, if you visit Havana and then go to another city you might have a pleasent suprise and visa versa) to those not so much affected by it etc.

But generally there are few people, perhaps 10 percent that does not have some major disagreements with the current regime. But most people support the regime, one way or another. It provides safety, stability and many everyday things that cannot be taken for granted.

But I wouldn't call Cuba socialist and I wouldn't call the people "revolutionary" (I think "nationalist" would be a better description). Maybe some think they are, but for many of them, in a nutshell, all they do is to be more loyal to the status quo than others.

[bootleg42]

I'm worried about the new generation. Maybe the youth there sees all the "luxaries" in Miami (and I put luxaries in quotes) and they desire to have them or to have the chance to have them (for example DVD players which are just now recently allowed into the island)?????

Still, I spoke to Cuban doctors in Bolivia and they told me it's all good and the overwhelming majority support the revolution and the only problem (at times) is food production (in that a few times there are shortages in food but nothing to create famine). That's a small problem that can be fixed.