crippeling the gov.

[destroy*r*nation]

For all of our military might and economic dominance, America's Achilles heel is the oil we cannot live without. Oil fuels 96 percent of our transportation needs, and it is critical to the manufacture of millions of goods and products in this country. The interruption of even a small amount of oil for just a few days could cause economic panic and soaring prices-obama



a major way to get people to open there eyes to the fact that we need to stop capitalism is to take out the oil supplies in to the country.post ideas



the revolutions starts with you

[Boriznov]

burn baby burn

[Cybercide]

Originally posted by destroy*r*[email protected] 08, 2007 11:34 pm

For all of our military might and economic dominance, America's Achilles heel is the oil we cannot live without. Oil fuels 96 percent of our transportation needs, and it is critical to the manufacture of millions of goods and products in this country. The interruption of even a small amount of oil for just a few days could cause economic panic and soaring prices-obama



a major way to get people to open there eyes to the fact that we need to stop capitalism is to take out the oil supplies in to the country.post ideas



the revolutions starts with you
no, because without the people's support for the revolution all that will do is make everyone hate us.

[RNK]

Most already do, and those that don't are completely indifferent to change because their lives have become too comfortable. A sudden, massive shock to the West's oil supplies could cause capitalism's fragile support structure to collapse. It would, naturally, fuck with people's lives -- but it would also expose the inherent and systemic flaws of capitalism.

[Cybercide]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:08 am
Most already do, and those that don't are completely indifferent to change because their lives have become too comfortable. A sudden, massive shock to the West's oil supplies could cause capitalism's fragile support structure to collapse. It would, naturally, fuck with people's lives -- but it would also expose the inherent and systemic flaws of capitalism.
True but if we did destroyed the oil, do you think they will even listen to us?

[rouchambeau]

True but if we did destroyed the oil, do you think they will even listen to us?
What makes you think that they need to?

[Cybercide]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 12:51 am

True but if we did destroyed the oil, do you think they will even listen to us?
What makes you think that they need to?
some of them must listen to us... otherwise any revolution is doomed to failure.

[RedHal]

seeing how Americans voted Bush jr for second term, O'reilly and Coulter being so popular, they will more likely turn to fascism than towards a socialist revolution. They will be goose stepping on their way to invading oil rich countries. Their hummers and suvs need to be filled!

[The-Spark]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 03:39 am
seeing how Americans voted Bush jr for second term, O'reilly and Coulter being so popular, they will more likely turn to fascism than towards a socialist revolution. They will be goose stepping on their way to invading oil rich countries. Their hummers and suvs need to be filled!
im not so sure bush accually won the second time, did he not scam the elections, his cousin was n charge of voting in california or something like that

[RedHal]

Originally posted by The-Spark+August 16, 2007 04:32 am--> (The-Spark @ August 16, 2007 04:32 am)
[email protected] 16, 2007 03:39 am
seeing how Americans voted Bush jr for second term, O'reilly and Coulter being so popular, they will more likely turn to fascism than towards a socialist revolution. They will be goose stepping on their way to invading oil rich countries. Their hummers and suvs need to be filled!
im not so sure bush accually won the second time, did he not scam the elections, his cousin was n charge of voting in california or something like that [/b]
Bush, Kerry, Gore, Obama, Clinton makes no difference, all are imperialist war mongers . The US is not ready for a socialist revolution, so the original posterss assertion that destroying oil reserves will lead to a socialist revolution is absurd.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 05:39 am
seeing how Americans voted Bush jr for second term, O'reilly and Coulter being so popular, they will more likely turn to fascism than towards a socialist revolution. They will be goose stepping on their way to invading oil rich countries. Their hummers and suvs need to be filled!
That's because there was some growth in the economy. Right wing parties use this growth to prove that the country is going in the right direction. They say their reactionary policy has worked. Things aren't going well, yet people think things could change if only they would work hard enough. Of course people wouldn't think such a thing if there was a socialist alternative to look up to.

[Forward Union]

This discussion will be fruitless, because even if idiocy prevails and it is decided upon that destroying oil supplies to the nation is the best way of achieving a platform for communism, then we would have to close the discussion because it would become illegal.

It would create chaos for sure, but that would probably serve the political interests of the far right, as opposed to what we are hoping for.

Furthermore I have no confidence in anyone here. No offence, but none of us have the skills or knowledge required to complete the objectives.

[Tower of Bebel]

Indeed. It is an act of terrorism, which will only push people towards reactionaries.

[manic expression]

This shouldn't be taken as an insult, but this idea is a texbook example of why Bakuninite, self-centered actions based on pure fantasy garner nothing but consistent failure. Blowing up x, y or z does absolutely nothing to hamper the system of capitalism or its defenses. It is similar to tampering with the breaks of an Oldsmobile and thinking it will affect pollution levels.

Please go read the Communist Manifesto, the history of the Paris Commune or the history of the Russian Revolution; actually, any piece of thoughtful leftist writing will do.

[guerilla E]

This is great. Why can't we revs move past the idea that big flashy explosions are the best way to cripple a government.

Violence, if it must occur, should be kept for defensive measures in protests or activities - not surgical strikes.

Time to get creative, not militant, if you want to achieve something that doesn't give 30 right wing newspapers the headlines "Radical Left Terrorists Strike!" and with justification too!

There are two types of militants - those who want to be militant and those who want to get involved in a struggle.

[Comrade Rage]

The simple fact is that the economy as well as the war machine runs on oil.
If someone disrupted the oil supply even for just a day, he would be saving countless lives! It would disrupt the prison-industrial complex, more than any non-violent protest I have attended.

QUOTE (guerrilla E)
This is great. Why can't we revs move past the idea that big flashy explosions are the best way to cripple a government.

Because that is what most revolutions have arisen from. Whether you or I like it or not.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by Cybercide+August 09, 2007 02:12 am--> (Cybercide @ August 09, 2007 02:12 am)
[email protected] 09, 2007 02:08 am
Most already do, and those that don't are completely indifferent to change because their lives have become too comfortable. A sudden, massive shock to the West's oil supplies could cause capitalism's fragile support structure to collapse. It would, naturally, fuck with people's lives -- but it would also expose the inherent and systemic flaws of capitalism.
True but if we did destroyed the oil, do you think they will even listen to us? [/b]
Exactly. This would sway the people away from Revolution.

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by Scribe+September 05, 2007 01:54 pm--> (Scribe @ September 05, 2007 01:54 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:12 am

[email protected] 09, 2007 02:08 am
Most already do, and those that don't are completely indifferent to change because their lives have become too comfortable. A sudden, massive shock to the West's oil supplies could cause capitalism's fragile support structure to collapse. It would, naturally, fuck with people's lives -- but it would also expose the inherent and systemic flaws of capitalism.
True but if we did destroyed the oil, do you think they will even listen to us?
Exactly. This would sway the people away from Revolution. [/b]
The kind of people it would sway away from the revolution are the bourgeosie, petty and otherwise. They would support practically anything with a big trend behind it, and revolution is somewhat glamorized, if not co-opted by, advertisers.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by COMRADE CRUM+September 05, 2007 06:58 pm--> (COMRADE CRUM @ September 05, 2007 06:58 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 01:54 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:12 am

[email protected] 09, 2007 02:08 am
Most already do, and those that don't are completely indifferent to change because their lives have become too comfortable. A sudden, massive shock to the West's oil supplies could cause capitalism's fragile support structure to collapse. It would, naturally, fuck with people's lives -- but it would also expose the inherent and systemic flaws of capitalism.
True but if we did destroyed the oil, do you think they will even listen to us?
Exactly. This would sway the people away from Revolution.
The kind of people it would sway away from the revolution are the bourgeosie, petty and otherwise. They would support practically anything with a big trend behind it, and revolution is somewhat glamorized, if not co-opted by, advertisers. [/b]
No, you assume the only people who are Capitalists are Bourgeoise. Middle to Lower Class families also pledge alligence to the red white and blue do to the propoganda spread by the Bourgeoise.

Destroying oil is fuckin stupid. After revolution, we'll still need it. It's a non-renewable resource that, right now, is fucking priceless. All this would do is make gas prices high as fuck and get the people angry.

[spartan]

i think that america turning to fascism (if we did these attacks) would actually be good for us because the proletariat in america who at first supported these fascists would quickly learn that they are far far worse then a proletarian controlled society. and thus they will turn to us (and hey presto we have our long awaited dream of mass support of the proletariat!). also economic terrorism is different as civilian casualties would be kept to an absoulate minimum and it would be hard to criticise us in the media (except for a few rich idiots complaining about not having enough fuel for their cars which would not be that bad :D ). all in all economic terrorism is a much better alternative than the stupid terrorism which you see from these islamic extremists who think that blowing people up in trains is cool but which actually only alienates people in the west. plus attacking places like this is not exactly fucking hard! i am pretty sure a few well placed pipe bombs will do the trick. and remember a successful revolution is a violent one

EDIT:this post is a joke :D except for the last sentence.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 12:51 am

True but if we did destroyed the oil, do you think they will even listen to us?
What makes you think that they need to?
The support of the people is an absolute necessity.

[Comrade Rage]

I would not advocating destroying the oil it's self, so much as the means of supplying it (e.g. refineries and pipelines). Even a small disruption could spark some kind of action.

In regards to the patriotic propaganda, few people are taking it serious right now, due to Bush's incompetence. We ought to counter it with some propaganda of our own. For instance, the refinery going offline: due to a lack of repairs, and a desire to drive up the price of oil.

It would be quite simple to retain the support of the people.

[spartan]

The support of the people is an absolute necessity
yeah Scribe but maybe doing these actions, which could lead to america becoming fascist which would then lead to the majority of people becoming disalushioned with the US, would lead to the support for us of the majority of people which is an absolute necessity.

[spartan]

perhaps not using expolsives but why not become a worker at an oil refinery and then sabotage shit from the inside and make sure there is no evidence? doing this would be easy and would not lead to negative meia portrail as terrorists and ypu could then start feeding the media stories of how what happened was actually government agents deliberately sabotaging things to drive up prices on the politicians orders! much more effective then terrorism i would say!

[Comrade Rage]

It probably would, but many radicals would be arrested and killed by the fash.

I don't have the file with me, but recently G. Bush issued a new directive for something like this called NSPD-51 / HSPD-20 "The National Continuity Policy".
It would transform America into a unitary state where Bush could rule by edict.

Such a naked duplication of Germany's 1933 Enabling Act would galvanize our support.

QUOTE spartan
perhaps not using exzpolisives but why not become a worker at an oil refinery and then sabotage shit from the inside and make sure there is no evidence? doing this would be easy and would not lead to negative meia portrail as terrorists and ypu could then start feeding the media stories of how what happened was actually government agents deliberately sabotaging things to drive up prices on the politicians orders! much more effective then terrorism i would say!

I agree.

[spartan]

glad you agree comrade! when you think about it sabotage is much better then terrorism because unless something is completly fucked up no one is killed and if you are careful about it then it is practically untraceable! but at the end of the day it creates a shit load of damage and will probably affect the bourgeoisie where it hurts the most in the economy and has a lasting and longer effect. which is much more than terrorism could (unless of course you count personal loss and tragedy as well as economic or enviromental terrorism).

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 07:10 pm

The support of the people is an absolute necessity
yeah Scribe but maybe doing these actions, which could lead to america becoming fascist which would then lead to the majority of people becoming disalushioned with the US, would lead to the support for us of the majority of people which is an absolute necessity.
Here you go again with that "let america become imperialist or fascist" bullshit. You don't understand that Revolution will only be more impossible once a Fascist government is put in place. The defense, the violence, the totalitarian secret police. You assume Fascism will make the people appaled and they're completely allowed to go "fuck this." Capitalism is the weakest stage, and the best to revolutionize from. Imperialism and Fascism is an inpenetreble fortress.

Stop thinking Fascism is good for a country, because it will only push Revolution further away.

[spartan]

first off i dont think fascism is "good" in the classical sense just that it could in some certain circumstances work in our favour via what i have said in other posts. secondly a fascist regime relies on mass support of the majority of the people so a mass exodous of its population could be effective. also remember mussolinis italy which when its population was disheartened in the middle of the war simply crumbled and had to be proped up by the germans.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 10:05 pm
first off i dont think fascism is "good" in the classical sense just that it could in some certain circumstances work in our favour via what i have said in other posts. secondly a fascist regime relies on mass support of the majority of the people so a mass exodous of its population could be effective. also remember mussolinis italy which when its population was disheartened in the middle of the war simply crumbled and had to be proped up by the germans.
Fascist government is held up by deceit and fear, and an iron fist that kills you if you dare oppose. Deceit sometimes encourages the Nationalism that strengthens Fascism, especially Hitler's blame game, but a Fascist government can work on totalitarian enforcement and keeping the people in chains.

You are not answering my original point, however. You say that Fascism can create the "Revolutionary situation", a time when Socialism is ripe to occur. Fascism would only push the Revolutionary situation further into the future.

If Fascism worked solely on people's support (which is forced out of people, and if they do not comply they are either silenced or imprisoned), I would agree, but Imperialism and Fascism simply do not work that way.

[Comrade Rage]

As a matter of fact, Scribe, Fascism in Albania and Yugoslavia did result in revolution. Usually when people are confronted with a situation as screwed up and far-right as fascism, they will react by supporting a leftist solution that is against the original system that resulted in fascism.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 06, 2007 12:13 am
As a matter of fact, Scribe, Fascism in Albania and Yugoslavia did result in revolution. Usually when people are confronted with a situation as screwed up and far-right as fascism, they will react by supporting a leftist solution that is against the original system that resulted in fascism.
9 times out of 10 Revolutionaries will be crushed almost instantly in a sucessful Fascist government, it's just a fact.

All i'm saying here is Capitalism is the first stage, and it msut be destroyed before it grows up.

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by Scribe+September 05, 2007 07:17 pm--> (Scribe @ September 05, 2007 07:17 pm)
COMRADE [email protected] 06, 2007 12:13 am
As a matter of fact, Scribe, Fascism in Albania and Yugoslavia did result in revolution. Usually when people are confronted with a situation as screwed up and far-right as fascism, they will react by supporting a leftist solution that is against the original system that resulted in fascism.
9 times out of 10 Revolutionaries will be crushed almost instantly in a sucessful Fascist government, it's just a fact.

All i'm saying here is Capitalism is the first stage, and it msut be destroyed before it grows up. [/b]
That is why we need to go underground while the signs of fascism are clear. (Arguably right now.) We also need to get serious about sabotage while we are still fighting capitalism, and not fascism. The US is on a trend towards fascism, whether we revolutionaries act or not.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by COMRADE CRUM+September 06, 2007 12:24 am--> (COMRADE CRUM @ September 06, 2007 12:24 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 07:17 pm

COMRADE [email protected] 06, 2007 12:13 am
As a matter of fact, Scribe, Fascism in Albania and Yugoslavia did result in revolution. Usually when people are confronted with a situation as screwed up and far-right as fascism, they will react by supporting a leftist solution that is against the original system that resulted in fascism.
9 times out of 10 Revolutionaries will be crushed almost instantly in a sucessful Fascist government, it's just a fact.

All i'm saying here is Capitalism is the first stage, and it msut be destroyed before it grows up.
That is why we need to go underground while the signs of fascism are clear. (Arguably right now.) We also need to get serious about sabotage while we are still fighting capitalism, and not fascism. The US is on a trend towards fascism, whether we revolutionaries act or not. [/b]
Exactly. Capitalism is the weakest stage, and the easiest to destroy. It's a cold day in hell when Fascism is easy to Rebel against.

[Comrade Rage]

I agree, however Fascism's obvious top flaw is that eventually they will overextend themselves in an unwinnable war. At that time, it becomes easy to carry out resistance. However usually no revolution will come from this resistance, although the support of the people is all but assured.

[spartan]

Fascist government is held up by deceit and fear, and an iron fist that kills you if you dare oppose. Deceit sometimes encourages the Nationalism that strengthens Fascism, especially Hitler's blame game, but a Fascist government can work on totalitarian enforcement and keeping the people in chains.

You are not answering my original point, however. You say that Fascism can create the "Revolutionary situation", a time when Socialism is ripe to occur. Fascism would only push the Revolutionary situation further into the future.

If Fascism worked solely on people's support (which is forced out of people, and if they do not comply they are either silenced or imprisoned), I would agree, but Imperialism and Fascism simply do not work that way.
Scribe sooner rather then later the fascist minority will treat the majority so bad that they would not be able to stop a majority simply overwhelming them. all historical examples prove this. unless of course you include modern day "democracies".

[guerilla E]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 05, 2007 06:38 pm
Because that is what most revolutions have arisen from. Whether you or I like it or not.
Name me one, no seriously I'll take the name of a single revolution that was started by an explosion.

Whether you like it or not, revolutions are started by ideas, not bombs.

Whether you like it or not, revolutions are fought by brains, not brawn.

Bombs and violence, mixed with simple brawn, are how police states begin.

And ultimately, whether you like it or not, real progress is made by utilizing methods of militancy a bit more complicated than just 'disrupting oil production for a day' (which by the way would achieve less than nothing, oil companies disrupt their own production in order to tip the scales of supply and demand.).