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chimx
8th August 2007, 17:26
China doesn't like this talk about sanctions and revaluation of the yuan. As the article says, 40% of all American debt is owned by foreignly. Of that 40%, China owns the vast majority--something like over 60%. If China decided to dump that debt, it would cause a serious recession, making China that nastiest loan shark ever.

From Telegraph.co.uk:


The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US Treasury bonds if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.

Two Chinese officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning, for the first time, that Beijing may use its $1,330bn (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress. Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.

Described as China's "nuclear option" in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is breaking down through historic support levels.

It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession.

It is estimated that China holds more than $900bn in a mix of US bonds.

Xia Bin, finance chief at China's Development Research Centre (which has cabinet rank), kicked off what appears to be government policy, with a comment last week that Beijing's foreign reserves should be used as a "bargaining chip" in talks with the US.

"Of course, China doesn't want any undesirable phenomenon in the global financial order," he said.

He Fan, an official at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, went further yesterday, letting it be known that Beijing had the power to set off a dollar collapse, if it chose to do so.

"China has accumulated a large sum of US dollars. Such a big sum, of which a considerable portion is in US Treasury bonds, contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency," he told China Daily. "Russia, Switzerland and several other countries have reduced their dollar holdings. China is unlikely to follow suit as long as the yuan's exchange rate is stable against the dollar.

"The Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars once the yuan appreciated dramatically, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar."

The threats play into the presidential electoral campaign of Hillary Clinton, who has called for restrictive legislation to prevent America being "held hostage to economic decisions being made in Beijing, Shanghai or Tokyo". She said foreign control over 44pc of the US national debt had left America acutely vulnerable.

Simon Derrick, currency strategist at the Bank of New York Mellon, said the comments were a message to the US Senate as Capitol Hill prepares legislation for the autumn session.

"The words are alarming and unambiguous. This carries a clear political threat and could have very serious consequences at a time when the credit markets are already afraid of contagion from the sub-prime troubles," he said.

A bill drafted by a group of US senators, and backed by the Senate Finance Committee, calls for trade tariffs against Chinese goods as retaliation for alleged currency manipulation.

The yuan has appreciated 9pc against the dollar over the last two years under a crawling peg but it has failed to halt the rise of China's trade surplus, which reached $26.9bn in June.

Henry Paulson, the US Treasury secretary, said any such sanctions would undermine US authority and "could trigger a global cycle of protectionist legislation".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm.../cnchina108.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/08/cnchina108.xml)

fabiansocialist
8th August 2007, 17:44
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 04:26 pm
China doesn't like this talk about sanctions and revaluation of the yuan. As the article says, 40% of all American debt is owned by foreignly. Of that 40%, China owns the vast majority--something like over 60%. If China decided to dump that debt, it would cause a serious recession, making China that nastiest loan shark ever.


That stupid ***** Hillary Clinton shouldn't go around making moronic threats. The Chinese (and the Japanese) know that their dollar holdings are never going to be redeemed at face value; they're in the unenviable position of not being able to unload their dollar holdings for fear of causing the very thing they don't want -- a dollar meltdown. The US has been living beyond its means (perhaps inevitable according to Marxist theory), and a lot of people are now holding overvalued paper.

bloody_capitalist_sham
8th August 2007, 18:00
I believe since 2007 China has larger dollar reserves than the United States.

RedCommieBear
8th August 2007, 18:01
I've heard that the U.S. might start intentionally inflating the dollar to pay back some of these debts? I heard this reading some infoshop.org article a while back (I can't find it right now). Is there any truth to this?

Tower of Bebel
8th August 2007, 20:02
And of course that doesn't work.

fabiansocialist
8th August 2007, 21:30
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 05:01 pm
I've heard that the U.S. might start intentionally inflating the dollar to pay back some of these debts? I heard this reading some infoshop.org article a while back (I can't find it right now). Is there any truth to this?
Inflate the dollar ... with respect to what? How is the US suppose to pay back its debt when dollars can't be redeemed for gold (as in the pre-1971 days)? If I hold dollars today, I know that the dollar exchange against other currencies can only go down, and I know that the purchasing power of the dollar is declining at maybe 6 or 8% annually: the dollar has been steadily declining for a few years now. If I could, I would unload my personal hoard -- which is not a problem. It is a problem for China and Japan since their actions won't just destabilize the market but because they are the market: no-one else will want to buy the dollars they want to unload, and the dollar will sink through any exchange-rate floor one can think of. The one reason the world's central banks haven't made a mad stampede for the door is because (in my humble opinion) the global economic and trading system -- which currently has the US as hub and market of last resort, and dollar as reserve currency -- will collapse.

The (related) US fiscal and current account deficits means trillions of dollars are sloshing the world's financial markets, and this is one principal reason why the prices of tangible commodities such as real estate and precious and other metals (gold, silver, platinum, nickel) have been steadily rising these last few years.

RedCommieBear
8th August 2007, 21:53
Thanks Fabian for the reply. I think I found the article on Infoshop.

Infoshop Article (http://www.infoshop.org/economics/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=22)

Here are some excerpts of interest:


Originally posted by Infoshop+--> (Infoshop)America's exploding debt is a ticking time-bomb. No one can say for
sure what might trigger a crisis and when the bomb might explode, but
this much is for sure: America's current level of borrowing is
unsustainable.

America's debt crisis is reflected both in our exploding national debt
and our astounding level of borrowing from foreigners, as measured in
the current account trade deficit. Every day we fail to address these
problems, we increase the chances that the country will be facing an
economic crisis of major proportions. Yet few Americans are aware that
anything is amiss. The mainstream media covers the issue
intermittently, but because the debt increases incrementally, the issue
lacks the sort of "crisis" banner that motivates editors and reporters.
The lessons of history are clear: a nation's heavy borrowing from
abroad is usually a precursor to decline. America's debt is also a
moral issue, because we are in effect stealing from future generations.
By borrowing so heavily today, we are hollowing out the foundation of
America's economic future.

There are two components of America's debt time-bomb: the national debt
and the current accounts trade deficit.
[/b]


Originally posted by Infoshop+--> (Infoshop)The current account trade deficit: In the last 25 years America has
gone from the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest
debtor nation. Today we rely upon foreigners to finance over 40% of our
national debt. In fiscal year 2005 our current account trade deficit is
on track to be almost $700 billion, which represents over 6% of our
GDP. When America borrows from abroad to finance its domestic deficits,
we give foreigners a claim to the financial assets of this country
through either interest payments or a share of profits. Essentially
America has been borrowing from abroad to finance our military buildup
and war in Iraq. Should we continue to run current account deficits
comparable to those now prevailing, the net ownership of the U.S. by
other countries and their citizens a decade from now will amount to
roughly $11 trillion.[/b]


Originally posted by Infoshop
The globalization of financial markets has made it easier for American
policymakers to engage in potentially dangerous borrowing patterns.
Today there is a worldwide glut of savings, and because the United
States is viewed favorably by global investors, we have been able to
borrow from abroad without any appreciable pain.

But this is all based on a short-term perspective. Sooner or later
America must begin paying foreigners back. Even with recent increases
in interest rates, they remain relatively low by historical standards
and inflation does not seem to be an major concern of policymakers in
the short run. This state of affairs has perplexed many economists
because, with capital flowing so freely across international
boundaries, many of the traditional guideposts used by the Fed to gauge
the economy have diminished relevance. If potential long-term problems
are masked, the magnitude of an eventual downturn could be greatly
magnified.


Originally posted by Infoshop
As businesses have more difficulty raising capital, it further
depresses the economy and places additional upward pressure on interest
rates. Rising interest rates would take the steam out of a real estate
market that has become increasingly speculative and exhibits many
bubble-like characteristics. Highly leveraged sectors like the
derivative markets could also encounter a severe contraction. Combine
these factors with the coming demographic wave of retiring baby boomers
and you have the outlines of a major crisis.


[email protected]
Based upon a credit analysis of America's current borrowing and our
long-term commitments through entitlement programs, some economists are
suggesting that the U.S. Treasury will have no other option than to
"monetize" the debt by reducing reduce its real value through
intentionally inflationary policies. This is essentially a means by
which the government would default on its debt without calling it a
default. Individuals and institutions that lent money to the federal
government by investing in Treasury bills would be paid back with
dollars that are worth less than the dollars they lent.



Infoshop
Sooner or later, America must begin paying off its debts, and its binge
of borrowing must come to an end. If our leaders continue to ignore the
problem, we will all suffer the consequences.

Tower of Bebel
8th August 2007, 22:31
They already try to gain money by letting people specualte on debts <_< .

Wilfred
21st August 2007, 00:22
Originally posted by fabiansocialist+August 08, 2007 08:30 pm--> (fabiansocialist @ August 08, 2007 08:30 pm)
[email protected] 08, 2007 05:01 pm
I&#39;ve heard that the U.S. might start intentionally inflating the dollar to pay back some of these debts? I heard this reading some infoshop.org article a while back (I can&#39;t find it right now). Is there any truth to this?
Inflate the dollar ... with respect to what? How is the US suppose to pay back its debt when dollars can&#39;t be redeemed for gold (as in the pre-1971 days)? If I hold dollars today, I know that the dollar exchange against other currencies can only go down, and I know that the purchasing power of the dollar is declining at maybe 6 or 8% annually: the dollar has been steadily declining for a few years now. If I could, I would unload my personal hoard -- which is not a problem. It is a problem for China and Japan since their actions won&#39;t just destabilize the market but because they are the market: no-one else will want to buy the dollars they want to unload, and the dollar will sink through any exchange-rate floor one can think of. The one reason the world&#39;s central banks haven&#39;t made a mad stampede for the door is because (in my humble opinion) the global economic and trading system -- which currently has the US as hub and market of last resort, and dollar as reserve currency -- will collapse.

The (related) US fiscal and current account deficits means trillions of dollars are sloshing the world&#39;s financial markets, and this is one principal reason why the prices of tangible commodities such as real estate and precious and other metals (gold, silver, platinum, nickel) have been steadily rising these last few years. [/b]
The US would off course devalue the dollar against their own production. So for example you once bought tenthousand dollars in the hopes that you could buy a hummer with it, and now you can only buy a coca-cola tin with it.
Furthermore the price of metals and such have been rising because there is not so much left of the stuff.