"Capitalism".

[Andrey Bolkonsky]

Hello all,

I've been taking a look at the Opposing Idealogies board, and I see the word "capitalism" quite often.

For example, in a thread I posted in, someone responded to this:


As for our government's policies, yes, it makes me ashamed at times to be an American. We let Uzbekistan gun down pro-Democracy protesters, ignored the military coup business in Nepal, declined to use force in Sudan like we did with Iraq (where it might've actually done some good), and don't support peace-keeping. I do still feel there's some chance we can redeem ourselves in the next few decades, and I hope there are some other folks out there who feel the same.


Well the problem there is capitalism itself. Just know that all those things you listed, that you yourself say that it makes you ashamed, are ALL LEGAL in capitalism. Capitalism is the problem. You must fix the problem from it's ROOT or else you never fix the problem itself. This is the lesson we wish to teach everyone.

Now, I am not particularly well educated in economics, but I get (or at least, I think I get the idea of capitalism. Free markets, let big business do whatever they like, etc. I'm not sure how that kind of economic policy fits into fascism and cruelty (which is what the United States of America has failed to prevent).

Now, there is something distinctly wrong with my country today, but I'm not sure I agree with your estimation that it is capitalism. What is the idealogy of capitalism, in your opinion, and which elements of it make it a damning philosophy on this board?

I am not particularly in favour of a capitalist approach; I live in a poor neighborhood in the eastern United States, where rent and living costs has soared above the minimum wage, where voting rates are 10%, and where schools run out of paper, but Congress buys $135 million fighter jets (which are pretty awsome, admittedly :P ). I am just wondering what the perceived capitalist agenda is, and what makes it so hated. And is it the idea or the economic system (or both)?

Just trying to better understand everyone here (evidenced by it being in your learning section), thank you for your time. :)

- Andrey

[fabiansocialist]

Originally posted by Andrey [email protected] 05, 2007 07:46 pm
Now, I am not particularly well educated in economics, but I get (or at least, I think I get the idea of capitalism. Free markets, let big business do whatever they like, etc. I'm not sure how that kind of economic policy fits into fascism and cruelty (which is what the United States of America has failed to prevent).

Now, there is something distinctly wrong with my country today, but I'm not sure I agree with your estimation that it is capitalism. What is the idealogy of capitalism, in your opinion, and which elements of it make it a damning philosophy on this board?


I don´t have the time to give a complete response. However:

1) Capitalism doesn´t mean free enterprise. It means oligopolies and cartels, and the control of the state by the rich (which functions as a front for them). Markets and prices are controlled by cartels and oligopolies.

2) When big business controls the state, militaristic and imperialistic policies follow -- whether in Central America or Iraq.

3) It is capitalist propaganda that capitalism = democracy, liberalism, "opportunity," and freedom. You can see that this is a lie throughout the USA.

[CornetJoyce]

Originally posted by Andrey [email protected] 05, 2007 07:46 pm


Now, I am not particularly well educated in economics, but I get (or at least, I think I get the idea of capitalism. Free markets, let big business do whatever they like, etc. I'm not sure how that kind of economic policy fits into fascism and cruelty (which is what the United States of America has failed to prevent).

Now, there is something distinctly wrong with my country today, but I'm not sure I agree with your estimation that it is capitalism. What is the idealogy of capitalism, in your opinion, and which elements of it make it a damning philosophy on this board?

I am not particularly in favour of a capitalist approach; I live in a poor neighborhood in the eastern United States, where rent and living costs has soared above the minimum wage, where voting rates are 10%, and where schools run out of paper, but Congress buys $135 million fighter jets (which are pretty awsome, admittedly :P ). I am just wondering what the perceived capitalist agenda is, and what makes it so hated. And is it the idea or the economic system (or both)?

Just trying to better understand everyone here (evidenced by it being in your learning section), thank you for your time. :)

- Andrey
A broad question, and I'm sure that you'll get lots of answers. Let's address just one aspect: you refer to "free markets." What makes a market "free" and what makes it "unfree?" A capitalist, or let us say the zealots of the "libertarian party," will explain that it's free if it's not subject to State interference (excepting of course the interference of the State to maintain the ownership claims of the owning class).

A free market is said to be "competive" but Adam Smith observed that wherever 2 or 3 merchants in the same business gather, they conspire against the public. A capitalist will say that "competition" always wins out over these countercompetitive forces, but won't say how this happens. J.K. Galbraith supplied the answer: "the free market is a good thing and that's why the government creates and maintains it."
It is precisely State interference that tends toward free markets.

But this suggests that capitalism means "free markets" only when and to the extent that the State operates as the honest referee. Is such a condition likely over a long span of time? In fact, the institutions founded by liberals for that purpose are filled, sooner or later, by the very people they are founded to guard against. Liberals have long complained of this fact.

Thus we ultimately have markets that are "free" only of the public interest and actual- as opposed to ideologically imagined- competition. We are at the mercy of these "free markets." And the market in labor is one of those "free markets" so the workers are commodities whose value is determined as are fruit and vegetables, with the leftovers subject to a similar fate.

[Djehuti]

Capitalism is universal commodity production, based on wage labour.

It means the appropriation of value through the use of the commodity wage labour for production of other commodities, therethrough creating a surplus value used to appropriate additional value, unt so weiter...

Capitalism is the M-C-M' process: Money-Commodity-More Money.

Capitalism can be private or state planned. Capitalism can be democratic or dictatorial. Capitalism can be left or right. But capitalism always means alienation and it always mean that we never are in control of our society. Capitalism is never really stable, and it can at times and places be an extremly destructive force causing imense destruction and misery. You can never trust capitalism and you can never be completly safe. And you can never get the fullest out of your life as long as the alienation and insecureness exist.