Stalinism - A miserable failure

[Karl Marx's Camel]

A shining example:


Corruption is one of the Communist Party's biggest problems and the thing that ordinary people criticise most bitterly, says the BBC's James Reynolds in Beijing.

He says they complain about officials with gold watches, driving around in black Mercedes, getting fat on bribes and free lunches and handing out all the best jobs to their friends and family.

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6929005.stm)

[Panda Tse Tung]

How is the Communist Party of China a shining example?
Their revisionists/capitalists...
Not 'Stalinists' in the sense of anti-revisionists.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Their capitalists...

Yes, that's the point.

What was the party before the gold watches and private ownership of means of production? A stalinist party.

Stalinism corrups the workers movement and stalinism is later "corrupted" from within. It's what happens again and again and again and again.

[Panda Tse Tung]

'Stalinists' who actively fought the bureaucracy. In fact people that we're targeted by these 'evil Stalinists' we're later the big party bosses who corrupted the party. Ironic, isn't it?
Or do you want to claim that there is no bourgeoisie presence in a ruling Communist Party?
Unfortunately i cant back up my claims that the bourgeoisie will also rise in non-'Stalinist' states, and will therefore be fought (even amongst the governing organs). Cause none of the other 'experiments' we're long-lasting and strong enough to actually give a good evaluation of the process.
This seems like an extremely lacking evaluation of 'Stalinism'. And a weak attempt to smear socialist states and whole movements.

[Intelligitimate]

This thread is a good example that the term "Stalinism" is meaningless jibberish, and actually describes nothing at all.

[Wanted Man]

Can this thread be moved to a more appropriate forum? I.e. Chit Chat, Trash, or Opposing Ideologies?

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by Dick [email protected] 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Can this thread be moved to a more appropriate forum? I.e. Chit Chat, Trash, or Opposing Ideologies?
Seconded.

I am not a Stalinist very much critical of Stalin and Stalinism but this thread is mostly worthless. :blink:

[Dimentio]

Stalinism does not exist, except from self-appointed stalinist parties like C.R.A.P (http://communistrevolutionaryactionparty.blogspot.com). Except that vanguardism is obviously semi-theocratic, what is the point in attacking simple-minded bureaucrats which don't care about ideology?

[Cheung Mo]

There's only one communist with any sort of political clout in China, and he's not on Beijing's side. Leung would never have given money to the Royal Nepal Army, for instance.

[Janus]

What was the party before the gold watches and private ownership of means of production? A stalinist party.
The CCP has a much more complicated history that eludes such a simple classification particularly when it could just as well be described as a "Maoist" party and even a "Duxiuist" party prior to that. The current CPC has already been discredited particularly within the radical leftist movement, we need to move beyond that and discuss what needs to be done now.

[Leo]

'Stalinists' who actively fought the bureaucracy.

They were the freaking bureaucracy!


There's only one communist with any sort of political clout in China, and he's not on Beijing's side. Leung would never have given money to the Royal Nepal Army, for instance.

If you mean this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leung_Kwok_Hung) guy, he's hardly a communist; he is in an organization called "League of Social Democrats".

[Labor Shall Rule]

How exactly did they degenerate to capitalism? Can Stalinists offer a detailed analysis; statistics, specific historical events, that lead to the degeneration of the Peoples' Republic of China to their status of 'revisionists'?

[Dimentio]

Apparently, the arch-stalinist Michel Rienzi wants to solve that by instituting celibacy in the Central Committee. ^^

[quirk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 03:12 pm

Their capitalists...

Yes, that's the point.

What was the party before the gold watches and private ownership of means of production? A stalinist party.

Stalinism corrups the workers movement and stalinism is later "corrupted" from within. It's what happens again and again and again and again.
But you could use your own logic and then ask what were they or what was the Soviet party before it was Stalinst and as it was a Leninist party you could then conclude Leninism corrupts.

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 09:18 pm
How exactly did they degenerate to capitalism? Can Stalinists offer a detailed analysis; statistics, specific historical events, that lead to the degeneration of the Peoples' Republic of China to their status of 'revisionists'?
Stalinists are not able to answer this question; their term "revisionist" is arbitrary. If they end up looking, they will get a result they dare not see: the fact that the Stalinist bureaucracy was responsible for this.

The arbitrary term, "revisionist," is also anti-dialectical in that it ignores processes. According to Stalinists, China just suddenly became capitalist after Mao's death and the USSR just suddenly became capitalist after Stalin's death. :rolleyes:

[RedHal]

oh goodie another Stalin bashing thread on revleft? Why do leftists spend so much time bashing Stalin? The Right already spends a huge amount of time and money doing this. Do something more productive. :rolleyes:

[RHIZOMES]

'Stalinists' who actively fought the bureaucracy.

Stalin's nickname before he assumed absolute control over the USSR was "Comrade Card-Index".

[RNK]

According to Stalinists, China just suddenly became capitalist after Mao's death and the USSR just suddenly became capitalist after Stalin's death.

Is it really impossible for you types to pick up a book that wasn't written by Trotsky or some right-wing anti-communist? Honestly, you've either got to be incredibly young or incredibly ignorant if you're bold enough to stand up and willingly admit that you have absolutely no understanding of the history of China's revolutionary development and downfall. Capitalism did not suddenly "appear" when Mao died; it appeared after years of intense market reforms that were implimented by the order of Deng (Mao's most vigorous opponent) and his cohort of party supporters, who rounded up and arrested or murdered all of Mao's supporters, along with any who sought to steer China towards a true socialist system. I mean, seriously, how can you deny such prevelent historical fact? Hell, it's not like the current CPC hides this fact -- it's practically their slogan.

And I'd like to point out that while people like you denounce China as being a capitalist state, you still won't acknowledge the fact that Mao himself led the fight against those that originally introduced capitalist reforms in the first place. I mean, come on. Talk about revisionism.

[Random Precision]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 03:02 am
oh goodie another Stalin bashing thread on revleft? Why do leftists spend so much time bashing Stalin? The Right already spends a huge amount of time and money doing this. Do something more productive. :rolleyes:
Because Stalin was an enemy of the working class.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by catbert836+August 12, 2007 06:33 am--> (catbert836 @ August 12, 2007 06:33 am)
[email protected] 12, 2007 03:02 am
oh goodie another Stalin bashing thread on revleft? Why do leftists spend so much time bashing Stalin? The Right already spends a huge amount of time and money doing this. Do something more productive. :rolleyes:
Because Stalin was an enemy of the working class. [/b]
...who has been dead for over 50 years.

While I agree that Stalin was an enemy of the working class, I also think it is counter-productive to focus so much of our attention on dead enemies of the working class rather than those enemies of the working class who are very much alive and well.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 11, 2007 08:53 pm

'Stalinists' who actively fought the bureaucracy.

They were the freaking bureaucracy!
You are right, and so is he: one of the main business of the Stalinist bureaucracy was internal - and murderous - strife.

Luís Henrique

[Iron]

Originally posted by Edric O+August 12, 2007 05:32 am--> (Edric O @ August 12, 2007 05:32 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 06:33 am

[email protected] 12, 2007 03:02 am
oh goodie another Stalin bashing thread on revleft? Why do leftists spend so much time bashing Stalin? The Right already spends a huge amount of time and money doing this. Do something more productive. :rolleyes:
Because Stalin was an enemy of the working class.
...who has been dead for over 50 years.

While I agree that Stalin was an enemy of the working class, I also think it is counter-productive to focus so much of our attention on dead enemies of the working class rather than those enemies of the working class who are very much alive and well. [/b]
agreed

as for comparing stalinism to the capitalist system that controls china i don't see the link.. while stalin was many things he wasn't a cappie

[redarmyfaction38]

just for fun! :rolleyes:
stalinism, is just like stella artois, it promises you it's "reassuringly expensive" but you can buy it for pennies! and it makes you act like a mindless wanker.
IMO of course.