America and relgion

[Tower of Bebel]

"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy." - Marquis de Lafayette.

I think he was right in one way or another. In America we can see how more and more people become devoted to religion. In the 1990s there were more attacks by christian fundamentalists on -for instance- abortion clinics. This rise of relgion is used by President Bush who began to refer more and more to God and christianity when adressing the American people. Even in Europe -far more atheïst (50% or more)- you can see how religion becomes more attractive.

The liberties are not fully destoyed. They're still written, yet we can see they're attacked from different angles. Democracy for instance is all about which famous person do you like most on television. Even in Belgium, where the prime minister is not chosen by the people (he/she is elected by the party that has the most votes), television only showed us 3 candidates who wanted to become prime minister during the elections and so many voted according to which of the 3 should become prime minister instead of which program is the best for me.

I believe that it is part of a slow process that began in 1973/4, because of the crisis and the neoliberal policy of many Western countries.

Also in de Middle East we see how countries destroyed by imperialist wars or by putting a dictator in power like Saddam who had good connections with the West. No wonder moderate muslims become fundamentalists. The box of Pandora has been opened and the fundamentalists have started get kids of the street to train them. Those kids who have no future are easily persuaded by the promise of heaven when they kill there enemy.
I do not say this to support fundamentalists. Fundamentalists who come to power are no better than fascism.

Care to respond?

[pusher robot]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 11:42 am
"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy." - Marquis de Lafayette.

I think he was right in one way or another. In America we can see how more and more people become devoted to religion. In the 1990s there were more attacks by christian fundamentalists on -for instance- abortion clinics. This rise of relgion is used by President Bush who began to refer more and more to God and christianity when adressing the American people. Even in Europe -far more atheïst (50% or more)- you can see how religion becomes more attractive.

The liberties are not fully destoyed. They're still written, yet we can see they're attacked from different angles. Democracy for instance is all about which famous person do you like most on television. Even in Belgium, where the prime minister is not chosen by the people (he/she is elected by the party that has the most votes), television only showed us 3 candidates who wanted to become prime minister during the elections and so many voted according to which of the 3 should become prime minister instead of which program is the best for me.

I believe that it is part of a slow process that began in 1973/4, because of the crisis and the neoliberal policy of many Western countries.

Also in de Middle East we see how countries destroyed by imperialist wars or by putting a dictator in power like Saddam who had good connections with the West. No wonder moderate muslims become fundamentalists. The box of Pandora has been opened and the fundamentalists have started get kids of the street to train them. Those kids who have no future are easily persuaded by the promise of heaven when they kill there enemy.
I do not say this to support fundamentalists. Fundamentalists who come to power are no better than fascism.

Care to respond?
I disagree with your premise. The mild resurgence of fundamentalism we have seen in the past couple of decades is due not to more and more religious people, but fewer and fewer. As churches empty out, the remaining believers grow more and more desperate. They perceive themselves as victims, as oppressed, as martyrs. This makes them more radical and more fundamentalist. It is a reactionary effect to the increasing secularization of society.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by pusher [email protected] 27, 2007 04:18 pm
I disagree with your premise. The mild resurgence of fundamentalism we have seen in the past couple of decades is due not to more and more religious people, but fewer and fewer. As churches empty out, the remaining believers grow more and more desperate. They perceive themselves as victims, as oppressed, as martyrs. This makes them more radical and more fundamentalist. It is a reactionary effect to the increasing secularization of society.
It would be foolish to deny that this is a factor. But it is inadequate for explaining the phenomena. Fundamentalism thrives in countries like America which remain quite religious. In more secular Western European countries it is much less prevalent.

[freakazoid]

The liberties are not fully destoyed. They're still written, yet we can see they're attacked from different angles. Democracy for instance is all about which famous person do you like most on television. Even in Belgium, where the prime minister is not chosen by the people (he/she is elected by the party that has the most votes), television only showed us 3 candidates who wanted to become prime minister during the elections and so many voted according to which of the 3 should become prime minister instead of which program is the best for me.

I do not believe that this is because of religion. It is due to many factors. And most people want someone to take care of them so they don't have to think about it, they're called sheeple. These people would rather have temporary safety as opposed to essential freedoms, and eventually they are going to reap what they have sown.
The leaders are only using religion to further there goals.

[CornetJoyce]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 11:42 am
"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy." - Marquis de Lafayette.

I think he was right in one way or another. In America we can see how more and more people become devoted to religion. In the 1990s there were more attacks by christian fundamentalists on -for instance- abortion clinics. This rise of relgion is used by President Bush who began to refer more and more to God and christianity when adressing the American people. Even in Europe -far more atheïst (50% or more)- you can see how religion becomes more attractive.


Lafayette (He and his brother-in-law having led the move to abolish the Estates, he didn't like being called "marquis.") was, of course, deeply anticlerical. He normally sat with the moderate Left in the Chamber, but when religion was on the agenda, he rose and moved to the extreme Left. His friend Jefferson thought that South America couldn't be truly free until they "follow the example of the French and drag their generals and priests to the guillotine." But they were thinking of the mitred magicians of the church,not of anything like our present swarm of biblethumping neanderthals. The former are to the latter as a conventional army is to a population of suicide bombers.

To some extent, the religion of the masses is, as Marx said, "the cry of the oppressed creature, a haven in a heartless world." But it's also the cry of the angry creature, insanity in an insane world.

[Tower of Bebel]

Europe differs from the US because the slow comeback of religion is not just a comeback of Christianity. Many people who rediscovered religion became Hindu, Muslim, etc.

[hajduk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 11:01 pm
Europe differs from the US because the slow comeback of religion is not just a comeback of Christianity. Many people who rediscovered religion became Hindu, Muslim, etc.
yeah but that is involving religion institutions in politics becouse they whant more
money and some power
so they must make atmosphere in people minds that only salvation came from god so then religion institutions can have more space in politics and that project is start from the office of SAMUEL P. HANTINGTON who whant to prove his theory about THE CLASH OF CIVILISATIONS making religious movements which are going to attack each other in society in purpose for getting more economy power for capitalists