Canadian Communist organizations..?

[Comrade-Upon-Tweed]

I'm eager to get involved in leftist movements in my area and I'm on the lookout for immediate associations. I've been searching for communist organizations with locations in Toronto, but have so far been hugely disappointed. I am thoroughly disgusted with my current options...

The Communist Party of Canada is a disillusioned and nationalistic group that is more concerned with the federal elections than with their own alleged ideals. The Young Communist League (with an association on my campus) is basically the ***** of the aforementioned, harmless and good-natured enough, but similarly languid and deluded. The CPC-ML (a breakaway party which presents itself as a more determined and virile alternative) can never seem to decide whether it's Marxist-Leninist or Maoist (or whether or not Castro is a revisionist). Amidst it's increasingly frustrating ideological ambiguity, it serves as an apologist for Kim Jong-Il and thus alienates any self-respecting Marxist (or any human being, for that matter) and sullies the already tarnished name of Communism as effectively as the original CPC. The Red Youth Front has a base in Toronto and while their hearts are in the right place, their theory and organization is noticeably vague and erratic and there is something oddly childlike about their communiqués...

At the moment, the only organization that has impressed me (and the only one I am able to take the least bit seriously) is the Revolutionary Communist Party of Canada. It is a new party and is the closest thing to a truly revolutionary one in this country. However, it has MLM ideals and I'm somewhat wary of Maoists.

If anyone here is able to cite any revolutionary-leftist organizations in Canada (or better still, the GTA), it would be most appreciated.

Thanks, comrades. :hammer:

[Rawthentic]

If I were you, I would join the RCP, even though they are Maoist. I have read through their site and really liked what I saw.

[Dr. Cheph]

the new socialists are a Toronto based organization that believe in democratic socialism. they publish a magazine and help organize protests and such.

new socialist (http://www.newsocialist.org/)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Why isn't anybody talking about setting up an ICC (Leo, this is for you) or CL chapter (Voz, this is for you) in Canada? :(

I'm not interested in a new political party, but rather in a Canadian chapter (in both form and in substance) of an international party, going beyond the Second and Third Internationals (that there isn't even a modern equivalent of those half-substance-and-NO-form organizations is very worrisome :( ).

[The-Spark]

I feel your pain tweed, and i agree that their should be a Canadian chapter of an international party. but how? Tweed if you organize anything yourself let me kno, for im looking to help the cause anyway possible, and seriously the shit we have in Canada is really pathetic for the commie parties, like i never even heard of them till i did research myself.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You could always begin work to form a new Branch (or two, or three) of the FPM (http://www.fpm-mgl.org). There are a number of supporters and individual members in Canada already, so there is some basis for moving forward in that direction, if you were so inclined.

[RNK]

You should learn more about the RCP.

Check out their program at http://www.pcr-rcp.ca/en/programme/

They are actually preparing for a Toronto Congress for next year (2008) and are inviting any and all revolutionaries to attend for discussions and such. There's no harm in looking into it.

[The-Spark]

im checking out their program right now, so far i like what i see :)

[Rawthentic]

Yeah, Hammer, we have Canadian contacts and supporters as well, I can supply Comrade-Upon-Tweed with that if he so wishes, but I was under the impression that he wanted to get involved in something that was already in the works in his area, not start something new.

[Severian]

I'd recommend checking out the Communist League in Canada, no relation to the group headquartered in Detroit whose members post a lot on this board.

The Communist League in Canada have a Toronto branch, headquartered in the Pathfinder bookstore, Contact info here (http://www.themilitant.com/direct.shtml#3) They probably have public events on different topics every week or so, you could go to one and check them out.

I'm in the U.S., but I've met members of the CL from Canada and I think it's a far more serious and revolutionary organization than any you've mentioned. And not "MLM".

If you look around this website you can get some general idea of what they stand for. (http://www.themilitant.com/2000/6421/642168.html)

OK, here's a more recent article mentioning the CL (http://www.themilitant.com/2006/7049/704959.html)

[Janus]

Canadian communist groups (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31615)

What ideology are you leaning towards?

[Prairie Fire]

Here is my analysis of the Canadian communist movement, pros and cons, and I guess people take whatever they need from it.

Communist Party of Canada- Old school Kruschevite mother fuckers. They were one of many Moscow sattelite parties during the cold war, completely subordinating their politcs to Soviet-social imperialism during the late fifties. Because of this, as soon as the USSR fell, and they stopped getting their opinions fresh off of the presses from Moscow, they started to fall apart. After the wall went down in Berlin, about half of their membership capitulated to social democracy. Now, they no longer walk the path of the CPSU, but rather emulate the Democratic party of the USA.
The last campaign I saw them instigating in my city was a 9/11 truth commission thing.

I used to roll with them in High school, and I left shortly before graduation, due to general disillusionment and embezzlement scandals. All of my current Comrades are ex-CPC because, basically, CPC is the first entry that comes up in a search engine when you type in "communist" and "Canada".

Pros: CPC Is a good learning organization for young/new communists. It teaches you some of the do's of communism, but mostly it teaches you a LOT of the Don'ts.
Membership in the CPC gives the type of practical experience of disillusionment with impotent organizing methods that can't be found in a book.

Cons: As I have re-itterated several times, CPC is as useless as it is impotent.
I said it was a good party to start with and build experience, but don't stay for more than a year or two.

Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist)- Known also by it's electoral name of " Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada" Contrary to what the Comrade who started this thread said, CPC-ML is not a splinter group of CPC. CPC-ML is also not Maoist either, but that leads me to believe that the author of this thread got their hands on some ancient CPC-ML literature. CPC-ML is one of the anti-revisionist parties that rose duirng the sino-soviet split to defend Marxism-Leninism and Stalin against revisionism. Because of this they rallied around Mao, and Enver Hoxha in Albania, as these two personalities where stubbornly defending Stalin and Marxism-Leninism againsty Kruschevite revisionism.

Later on, Mao did some questionable shit in China, and the Chinese leadership tried to turn CPC-ML into a sattelite organization, like the Soviets did with the CPC. This lead CPC-ML to completely reject Mao, and rally totally around Hoxha and the Labour Party of Albania.

Now, Hoxha kicked the bucket in '85,and socialist Albania fell in the early nineties, so the CPC-ML found themselves kind of floating. This is where the CPC-ML started to disintegrate. CPC-ML leader Hardial Bains formed another politcal party also under his leadership, called the "Canadian renewal party", that did not openly claim any Marxist-Leninist affiliations (talk about hedging your bets). In 1989, a Conference happened in Chertsey Quebec, where the party decided that the revolution was in "ebb" and "retreat", rather than in "flow", as in previous times.
This change signalled their descent into stagnation. Hardial Bains died in 1997, further destroying the group.

The biggest problem with this group is that for a party calling themselves "Marxist-Leninist", they don't promote their membership to read Marx or Lenin; It is not a part of the official study program. The writings of Marx, Engles, Lenin and Stalin are all regulated to a theoretical back- burner. As for Comrade Enver Hoxha, I have persynally been discourgaged from reading his works by CPC-ML members
(bizzare, considering their staunch Hoxhaist position during the Seventies.) The name "Marxist-Leninist" is now vestigial, as the only works they study are those of Hardial Bains.

Today they operate with a few core members, and some power in various Unions. They recently stopped printing their paper. I have been a member for a few years, but have not participated in any of their work in about a year. I am largely dis-illusioned with this group as well, but I maintain passive affiliation as one of my modes of work.

Pros: CPC-ML does take the correct ideological stance and analysis of individual issues ( as a whole though, they have an incorrect action plan). CPC-ML is a good party to gradually correct vestigial anti-communist notions in recent communists.

Cons: Largely stagnant since the 1990's. Heavily prone to empty sloganeering, to the point of sounding like lobotomized cultists. Also, be prepared to sing songs about dear departed Hardial Bains on the anniversary of his birth. As I have allready mentioned, they are "Marxist-Leninists" who no longer study Marx or Lenin. This pisses me off, because my group, Victoria Marxist-Leninist Organization, often gets confused with them. Being as they no longer follow Marx and Lenin, I would appreciate if they would change their name to the CPC (Bainsist), so people who still study Marx and Lenin can use their name!

Trotskyist parties- I'm not making this classification to be a dick; I'm making it because there are so many groups rallying around Trotsky out there in my country, and I don't think I even know of all of them. When I lived in Edmonton, there was five Trot groups, one of which had only one member, and all of which had less members than I have fingers.

The theory of all of these organizations are pretty similar, based on the ideals of Trotsky. It is hard to comment on their history, because very few of them have existed for more than ten years, and they have done next to nothing in that time.

There is a high tendency for Canadian Trotskysists to practice entryism, and entire Trotskyist organizations are members/sattelites of the NDP. Only a few of the ultra-trot organizations, like the spartacus league reject this principle of capitulationism. Still, they are not really any better, because the Sparts criticize everyone else, while doing absolutely nothing themselves.

Canadian Trotskyist organizations: Fightback, Spartacus league, International Socialists, New Socialist Group, "Socialist Voice", etc, etc. most parties with "socialist" in their title.

Pros: Trotskyism, among western communist currents in general, is alluring because it offers communism with a moral "clean slate", free of the alleged excesses of Stalin, so they have many followers on campuses and what not. They also offer
"pure" and ideologically un-tainted communism. If you are the kind of person who wants to be a communist in the literary sense, and that's it, then these are the kind of groups you should look into. If you only want to discuss "degenerated workers states" over a glass of wine on campus, and maybe carry a card in your wallet that you can use as a conversation peice, these parties are for you.

cons:" Any person who waits for a pure revolution will never live to see it". The
people who comprise the membership of these groups, while they may talk of revolution, are not the sort of people who get thrown in the back of squad cars; these are the sort of people who publish articles from Mumia abu Jamal in their newspaper, and think that this makes them revolutionary. If I had a nickle for everytime I've ran into an indvidual in a hammer & sickle/ Trotsky/ Lenin T-shirt, who I had never seen before at any events in the movement... Well, then I would be a bourgeosie, and an enemy of the people. The members of the abovementioned organizations usually fall into that category: Book- commies; literary commies. These people are RARELY active, organizing Commies.

When they are, they are usually counter-productive. I remember at a march against the war in Lebanon at parliament hill last year, thousands were chanting slogans, and there was this one dumb fuck, dreadlocked Trot who was trying to start his own chant :rolleyes:
In Vancouver, the Spartacus league has actually held counter-demonstrations AGAINST other socialist, anti-imperialist groups!

RCP-OC- RCP... If RCP was a person, he would be the new guy on the football team, who thinks that he is the best player on the team,and constantly tells the other players so,all the time... The kind of guy that you just want to punch and say "Shut the fuck up!"

For all of their claims of superiority, I think that they...embellish a little bit. First of all the name: Revolutionary Communist Party of Canada. I think that perhaps, it would be more appropriate to call themselves "Revolutionary communist party of Quebec.". Let's face it, there really isn't much of an RCP outside of Quebec. There are a few members in Ontario, but c'mon. Canada is a big country. I know that there arn't any RCP in Victoria. I also know that there weren't any in Edmonton. Right there, that's two provincial capitals lacking in RCP cells. There are no "single sparks" to start a "Prarie fire" on the Canadian prairies, and the same goes for most of the provinces other than Quebec and Ontario.

I've read their magazine on several occasions, which really reflects that they were an external force transplanted in Canada ( Our RCP is an offshoot of Chairman Bobs bunch in the USA.), And has not developed their own politics. RCP newspapers are always...Cliche, to say the least. They offer no analysis that is specific to the situation in Canada. I mean, it's nice that Filipino Maoists are struggling against their government, and cool that Nepal is waging peoples war,but seriously, cut the cheerleading. Communism has plenty of support in Nepal, thank you. What about Canada?

They also put forward the slogan "Don't vote, prepare for revolution." I agree with that slogan completely, especially when CPC-ML put forward that slogan in the early seventies. The only difference is, when CPC-ML advised against participation in parliamentary democracy, they coupled it with action;RCP seems to have left that part out of the equation. If you're going to tell people not to vote, you kind of need to present an alternative form of action.

On another note, RCP approached my group with the kind and generous offer to assimilate us into their organization, as their Victoria Branch. We politely declined and told them where to stick their red books. Seriously, at this point they have produced nothing more than noise and arrogance.

Pros: Uphold some of the proper theoretical ideasof Marxism-leninism. Struggle against stagnant groups and try to revitalize revolutionary communism.

Cons: Lacking independent politics. Too much cheerleading, not enough local action. Arrogant and contemptuous to other parties.

North Star Compass magazine/ Canadian Friends of the Soviet People-

I had a subscription to this newspaper, and I know my Comrade Marcel was on the editorial board at one time. Several times I've been offered membership in this group, and declined each time.

These people are the epitome of Tankies, however they seem to subordinate socialism to nationalism.

They support and uphold Stalin, but not in a socialist way; they support and uphold the Soviet Union, but not in a socialist way.

This group is prone to all of the more erroneous ideas that have infiltrated the anti-revisionist left; they support figures such as Saddam Huissen and Slobodan Milosevich as both revolutionary and socialist.

I don't think that any of their participants at their various congresses were under the age of forty, from what I've seen of their pictures...

Also, their mode of struggle is outdated. Their primary goal seems to re-establishment of the USSR as a socialist state. Well, that's nice, but what about Canada? What about establishement of a socialist state in Canada? If you really want to offer solidarity to the soviet peoples, turn Canada into a socialist state.

Pros: As pulpy and badly xeroxed as their magazine is ( I know the feeling,), They have some pretty decent, informative articles. Their magazine is reasonably
priced at 25$ for a years subscription.

Cons: Too consumed by nationalism. Focus on Soviet socialism, not Canadian socialism. Support questionable figures as "Revolutionary".

Fire this Time magazine/ MAWAO-

This group takes the right stance on many anti-imperialist issues, however they are heavily reluctant to proclaim the communist nature of their ideology to the public in any of their statements or literature.

This group also consumes itself heavily with Cheerleading, holding many a forum on anti-imperialist issues of all kinds, but doing nothing to build revolution in Canada.

Their solidarity work becomes meaningless, as they can provide no tangible support to the peoples of the countries that they support until revolution triumphs in Canada, which they are not pushing for.

Pros: Decent Magazine, take the correct ideological stance on most anti-imperialist issues.

Cons: Closet communists. Their modes of work become meaningless, as they focus almost exclusively on cheerleading.

Alliance ML-

Canadian Hoxhaist organization operating in Ontario, an off-shoot of Bill Blands group in Britain. Incredibly small membership, stagnant and falling apart.

Their theoretical stances are often incorrect, as their theoretical outlook didn't change with the times.

No longer publish their party organ.

Pros: Good source for Materials on Enver Hoxha, and socialist Albania.

Cons: Stagnant, and largely dormant.

MIM Kanada-

Another Maoist organization externally imposed on "Kanada". This group is but a Canadian branch of the Maoist Internationalist Movement, which itself is not so "international".

Most of the theoretical problems of this organization are the theoretical problems of MIM as a whole, with their ridiculous lines that "under capitalism, all sex is rape",
and their promotion of the "theory of three worlds".

From my experiences on "It's right to Rebel" forums, they show signs of authortarian fetishism, as members have advocated that all peoples, regardless of gender,country or tradition, wear the Zhongshan suit (Mao suit), among other things. It is also curious that they build parties in the western world, as they do not seem to be pro-ponents of socialism in the first world, standing by the "theory of three worlds", and rigidly conforming to the principle that the first world is built on super-profits stolen from the third world.

It is highly possible that this group is a member-less shell organization, propped up by American comrades.

Pros: One of the first Maoist groups to take progressive stance on Homosexuality.

Cons: Ultra-sectarian, and often counter-productive, as they struggle against all groups including fellow Maoists (they think the RCP is CIA related). Put forward many extreme and questionable lines.


That covers most of the communist groups I know of in Canada. To the author of this thread, if you live in Toronto and are looking for something genuine as far as communism goes, I would suggest you contact my Comrades Marcel or Brownfist, both of which can be found on Revleft. Marcel is an organizer for a group called "Young left" I believe, as well the local ARA. Brownfist has a small Maoist reading circle, which I would say is the only Maoist organization formed from the local level in this country since CPC-ML adopted elements of Mao Tse Tung thought.

If none of these options appeals to you, I would suggest that you start your own group. That's what I did, and it has worked out very well. Apparently I wasn't the only person in my city looking for something new on the red scene, and many flocked to my banner. If I thought any of the above mentioned parties where the right one, I wouldn't have formed my own. I would invite you to join, but we're
on the other side of the country. Seriously though, if no other group is upholding the proper line, maybe it is a good idea to do it yourself and set an example.

[RNK]

Just a couple of criticisms of your analysis...


RCP-OC

It is no longer the "RCP(OC)", and has not been for some months. Please use up-to-date info for any future analysis!


If RCP was a person, he would be the new guy on the football team, who thinks that he is the best player on the team,and constantly tells the other players so,all the time...

Most of the RCP's critique of other organizations are against the CPC and CPQ's (and bourgeois parliamentary parties)... do you honestly disagree?



For all of their claims of superiority, I think that they...embellish a little bit. First of all the name: Revolutionary Communist Party of Canada. I think that perhaps, it would be more appropriate to call themselves "Revolutionary communist party of Quebec.". Let's face it, there really isn't much of an RCP outside of Quebec. There are a few members in Ontario, but c'mon. Canada is a big country. I know that there arn't any RCP in Victoria. I also know that there weren't any in Edmonton. Right there, that's two provincial capitals lacking in RCP cells.

Considering the RCP just finalized its creation in early 2007, can you blame them?! They're not miracle workers -- and they have correspondance with organizers and activists in ALL major cities throughout Canada, as far as I know. Though I do agree with the fact that they are, for the most part, based in Quebec. It was an idea by Quebecers and, naturally, any idea started by people in the same location needs time to spread.




I've read their magazine on several occasions, which really reflects that they were an external force transplanted in Canada ( Our RCP is an offshoot of Chairman Bobs bunch in the USA.),

Your analysis so far is not very accurate. The RCP Canada has absolutely nothing to do with the RCP USA -- infact, I'd even guess that the Canadian RCP is closer to organizations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the Philippines than it is with the RCP USA...


And has not developed their own politics. RCP newspapers are always...Cliche, to say the least. They offer no analysis that is specific to the situation in Canada. I mean, it's nice that Filipino Maoists are struggling against their government, and cool that Nepal is waging peoples war,but seriously, cut the cheerleading. Communism has plenty of support in Nepal, thank you. What about Canada?

I have a feeling you probably don't speak French... otherwise, you'd know that this isn't really true at all. Yes, the RCP focuses a lot on international issues -- more than, say, the nationalistic CPC and, worse, CPQ. Unfortunately, this isn't your fault entirely -- they do really need to start getting English material out to avoid these kinds of things.


They also put forward the slogan "Don't vote, prepare for revolution." I agree with that slogan completely, especially when CPC-ML put forward that slogan in the early seventies. The only difference is, when CPC-ML advised against participation in parliamentary democracy, they coupled it with action;RCP seems to have left that part out of the equation. If you're going to tell people not to vote, you kind of need to present an alternative form of action.

What did the CPC-ML do back then, exactly?


On another note, RCP approached my group with the kind and generous offer to assimilate us into their organization, as their Victoria Branch.

Are you talking about that email conversation we had? Heh, although I'm flattered, I really do not speak for the RCP. I simply said that the RCP would most likely be interested in opening up dialogue with you and your group and is interested in growing their influence through discussion and communication with revoluitionaries in other parts of Canada.


We politely declined and told them where to stick their red books.

No you didn't. You thanked me generously for informing you about the RCP and trying to get you involved with them. :rolleyes:


Seriously, at this point they have produced nothing more than noise and arrogance.

Not bad for an organization that is barely 6 months old.


Pros: Uphold some of the proper theoretical ideasof Marxism-leninism. Struggle against stagnant groups and try to revitalize revolutionary communism.

Finally, something good about them!


Cons: Lacking independent politics. Too much cheerleading, not enough local action. Arrogant and contemptuous to other parties.

Local action? I'm sorry, but you live all the way out in Victoria, and I'd disagree with what you think you know about the local activities of the RCP... such as organizing 200+ people for the 2006 May 1st demonstration (which they did ALONE), a similar amount for the 2007 demo (which started the "established" union demonstration and then split to hold a small activist rally infront of a Canadian Army building), organized a small demonstration of approx. 50 activists in a small town outside of Montreal to protest recent factory closings (along with other similar demonstrations that I'm not familiar with), held their first national congress last fall which brought in over 100 people, mostly from Quebec but a couple dozen from the rest of Canada (as well as internationally), etc... sufficed to say, your analysis lacks accurate information -- the RCP is actually quite active, far more than most decades-old, established organizations -- and it is only months old! Although, yes, the organizing committies which created it have been in existence since 2001. Still, in 6 short years the Revolutionary Communist Party has grown to encompass more support and more influence than the 80-year-old Communist Party of Canada (which held its most recent congress around the same date as the RCP... and managed to gather, what was it, only about 40 or so supporters?).

Anyway, as for the rest of your post, I loved the little critique of the other parties. The critique of the RCP, I felt, was inaccurate, and perhaps even slanderous, although that might just be me being too sensitive as I'm close to them. Though I don't necessarily blame you for it -- I fully understand that a comrade living in Victoria isn't going to be very understanding, in a literal sense, of the local activities of a mainly French Communist group situated thousands of kilometers away in Montreal. I myself am very confused about them at times, and I live in Montreal! Their lack of english resources is indeed a huge con, but I hate seeing english canadians turn them down because of it. What I'd like to see is more english rally to support and help them out. I myself barely speak a word of French and so I have to wait until once-in-a-blue-moon for an English translation or article to come out, or wait until I can see some of them at rallies and protests and chat with them in English. But recently they've been trying to expand their english resource with more frequent translations, and I hear they might even be trying to get an all-English edition of their paper out on a regular basis to distribute in the rest of Canada in preperation for the Toronto Congress in 2008.

[bretty]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 07:02 am
I'd recommend checking out the Communist League in Canada, no relation to the group headquartered in Detroit whose members post a lot on this board.

The Communist League in Canada have a Toronto branch, headquartered in the Pathfinder bookstore, Contact info here (http://www.themilitant.com/direct.shtml#3) They probably have public events on different topics every week or so, you could go to one and check them out.

I'm in the U.S., but I've met members of the CL from Canada and I think it's a far more serious and revolutionary organization than any you've mentioned. And not "MLM".

If you look around this website you can get some general idea of what they stand for. (http://www.themilitant.com/2000/6421/642168.html)

OK, here's a more recent article mentioning the CL (http://www.themilitant.com/2006/7049/704959.html)
I frequent these meetings and the people are definitely the best bet if you want comrades to talk with and be active with. They are truly dedicated individuals.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

RavenBlade,

You just critiscized and critiscized and shoveled shit on every communist group in Canada.

Your critique of the RCP, Canada is pretty inaccurate too. It seems to me the RCP, Canada is fairly big, especially for the amount of time it has been around (a few months)

the RCP, USA and RCP, Canada are connected in that they are Revolutionary Internationalist Movement participants but other than that they are autonomous to one another.

If I were you Comrade Upon Tweed I would join the RCP

[applejacks]

Is the RCP Canada a cult like the RCP USA? RCP USA is basically a cult that targets naive youth, college students and mentally unstable people. They basically sucker them out their money and funnel it upwards. Nobody really considers RCP USA a political organization. Does RCP Canada work like RCP USA?

[RNK]

First off, I'd appreciate it if you backed up your accusations with some sort of source or evidence. I could easily say that the Queen of England likes to rape young boys and play football with eviscerated heads... deosn't necessarily mean it's true.

Although there are serious criticisms to be made of the RCP USA (in my opinion), using silly slander isn't very becoming. And no, the RCP Canada and RCP USA are two very different, very seperate organizations that operate in two very different countries according to two very different conditions.

[applejacks]

Obviously you haven't been around RCP USA very long. The nature of that organization is well known among serious people.

[RNK]

Like you? :D

[Prairie Fire]

Everyone focuses on my critiques of RCP...
I have read in your paper how Hoxhaism is reactionary, but you don't see me going on about it.

RNK:


Considering the RCP just finalized its creation in early 2007, can you blame them?!


Not bad for an organization that is barely 6 months old.

Cute. The RCP (OC) was founded in 2000, and has been printing literature and operating various events for the past seven years now, but sure they are only six months old, because they just recently made it official. cute.

We did the same thing with VMLO, going from organizing Comittee (founded in November 2006) to official organization (April 2007), but at no point do I claim that
our group was nothing before April.

Seven years is a long time, and RCP has been active during that period. You are not "6 months old."

Out of curiosity, when the party switched from RCP(OC) to RCP, what changed about your tactics, methods or modes of work?


Unfortunately, this isn't your fault entirely -- they do really need to start getting English material out to avoid these kinds of things.


If I haven't seen a literature from RCP talking about local analysis, then yes, it is the RCP's fault. If they are going to claim to be the Revolutionary Communist party of Canada, well, French is not predominantly spoken in any province other than Quebec. Stastically, even though your numbers are in Quebec, you should be trying a bit harder with the english version. Either that, or change the name of your group. I mean, I don't call my organization the "British Columbian Marxist Leninist Organization", because our membership is all on one island. I don't claim territory that I have no membership or influence on.

Also, even though I was aware of a french version of your paper, it was never made available to me. Another organizational error. If the French version contains local politics, then send me that.



Are you talking about that email conversation we had? Heh, although I'm flattered, I really do not speak for the RCP. I simply said that the RCP would most likely be interested in opening up dialogue with you and your group and is interested in growing their influence through discussion and communication with revoluitionaries in other parts of Canada.

Interesting...
you see, it wasn't me you spoke with by e-mail conversation; it was my Comrade Tiparith, the treasurer of our organization (you can find some of his posts on rev-left).

All I know is what he told me.

Also, I was under the impression he was speaking with an RCP organizer.


Your analysis so far is not very accurate. The RCP Canada has absolutely nothing to do with the RCP USA -- infact, I'd even guess that the Canadian RCP is closer to organizations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the Philippines than it is with the RCP USA...

Okay, I suppose that was an error on my part. I could have sworn I've seen Avakian mentioned a few times in Peoples War Digest....


Most of the RCP's critique of other organizations are against the CPC and CPQ's (and bourgeois parliamentary parties)... do you honestly disagree

No I don't; I just disaprove of your arrogance. The only other people who tout the supremacy of their organizations like you guys do are the anarchists. Either way, it's annoying.


What did the CPC-ML do back then, exactly?

Labour organizing, univeristy agitation, etc, etc. It's not the best example, but it is an example.


the RCP is actually quite active, far more than most decades-old, established organizations

Really? Okay let's see:


held their first national congress last fall which brought in over 100 people, mostly from Quebec but a couple dozen from the rest of Can

Yeah, CPC-ML does that once a year too. About the same turnout, same demographics.


organized a small demonstration of approx. 50 activists in a small town outside of Montreal to protest recent factory closings

CPC-ML (Stelco work).

CPC-ML can gather 200 or so people on occasion... I know my membership card says that it is the 420th card issued; I presume that means we have at least 420 members.


I'd disagree with what you think you know about the local activities of the RCP

If I know nothing of your movement, then the fault is all yours. You're propaganda has been in-effective.


in 6 short years the Revolutionary Communist Party has grown to encompass more support and more influence than the 80-year-old Communist Party of Canada

<_< set the bar a little higher. In 9 months, VMLO has beat out the CPC for supremacy on Vancouver Island. Being better/more active than the CPC is not a huge accomplishment.


although that might just be me being too sensitive as I&#39;m close to them

Clearly so. Still, I will admit at the innacuracy of some of my points... I was given a lot of second-hand info, and withheld a lot more by your own party. If nothing else, the innacuracy of my critique reveals major problems in your parties information bureau.

Henry:


You just critiscized and critiscized and shoveled shit on every communist group in Canada.

Including some that I hold membership in. All of what I wrote is based on experience, and I think it was fair. I didn&#39;t "Shovel shit", I gave a fair criticism.


It seems to me the RCP, Canada is fairly big, especially for the amount of time it has been around (a few months)

I never claimed that it was small. Also, we come back to the assertion that it is only a few months old, even though it has been operating at some level since 2000.

That would be like me having a kid, but not aknowledging that he has been born until his seventh birthday.

RNK

I could easily say that the Queen of England likes to rape young boys and play football with eviscerated heads... deosn&#39;t necessarily mean it&#39;s true.

That conjures an interesting mental image.

[RNK]

Out of curiosity, when the party switched from RCP(OC) to RCP, what changed about your tactics, methods or modes of work?

Unfortunately, it&#39;s much easier to go through the organizational stage of a group&#39;s development when it consists of half a dozen members. The Organization period of the RCP was almost solely about growing support across the country. Although I do see the logic in your criticism of the use of the name "of Canada", in my opinion it&#39;s rubbish. The party&#39;s goal is to create a national party, which it is slowly doing. Your group&#39;s goal is to create an organization for Victoria. Do you have members from all over the island? Can you legitimately say that your organization encompasses each and every demographic, class, neighbourhood and nationality in Victoria B.C.? I could make the same criticism and argue that your influence there is no more (comparitively) to the RCP&#39;s influence across Canada. ALSO, the RCP does not call itself the RCP of Canada. I call it that, to differentiate it from the RCP USA.

And since its inception in March the RCP has held atleast half a dozen demonstrations all over south-western Quebec, from Montreal to Valleyfield to Quebec City, and there are, I believe, three scheduled rallies for August alone.


Also, even though I was aware of a french version of your paper, it was never made available to me. Another organizational error. If the French version contains local politics, then send me that.

When was the english version ever made available? I&#39;ll assume, if you actually did get your hands on an English copy, it was because that other member mailed and ordered one -- so it&#39;d be his fault for not requesting a French copy as well.

Also, both the English and French versions of their website contain a weekly periodical entired "Arsenal-Express" which is published every week. Here are some of the latest articles:

Le socialisme, seul garant du droit à la santé (about socialism and healthcare)
Deux belles victoires pour les droits démocratiques (about revolutionaries in the Philippines)
Le « Parti communiste du Québec » annonce sa marque de commerce sur Google&#33; (about the PCQ buying advertisements on Google so that their site will pop up whenever someone searches for the RCP)
Le capitalisme, un système malade et indécent (More about healthcare, also about Sicko)
LA BOURGEOISIE EMPRISONNE LE MILITANT SHAWN BRANT (About the recent arrest of Shawn Brant)
C&#39;est l&#39;État canadien qui cause problème, et non les Autochtones&#33; (about Natives vs. Canadian gov&#39;t)
PAULINE MAROIS : À VAINCRE SANS PÉRIL… (about some PQ politician)
LA VILLE DE MONTRÉAL ANNULE UN FESTIVAL HAÏTIEN (About the Haitan festival in Montreal)
L’ARMÉE AMÉRICAINE S’INVITE ELLE-MÊME&#33; (Another about the Philippines)
Des centaines de manifestantEs contre l’armée canadienne (about the recent demonstration in Quebec City)

And that&#39;s just in the last month. All are available (in French) at http://www.pcr-rcp.ca/fr/dre/ , free of charge. ;)


Interesting...
you see, it wasn&#39;t me you spoke with by e-mail conversation; it was my Comrade Tiparith, the treasurer of our organization (you can find some of his posts on rev-left).

All I know is what he told me.

Also, I was under the impression he was speaking with an RCP organizer.


Then I believe he exhaggerated the nature of our conversation. And no, I am not an RCP organizer or even a member. I support them, I read the newspaper, go to rallies, keep in touch with them, attend their events, etc.


Okay, I suppose that was an error on my part. I could have sworn I&#39;ve seen Avakian mentioned a few times in Peoples War Digest....

I believe one of Avakian&#39;s smaller articles on anarchism is in the PWD. Though as far as I know that&#39;s the only mention he or the RCP USA gets in any of the RCP Canada&#39;s literature.. though I may be wrong. Sufficed to say, the two RCP&#39;s are nothing alike.


The only other people who tout the supremacy of their organizations like you guys do are the anarchists. Either way, it&#39;s annoying.

Please stop with the "you", "your", etc. I don&#39;t speak for the RCP and it doesn&#39;t speak for me. Although I will mention that the RCP and local anarchists do sometimes collaborate.. :)


If nothing else, the innacuracy of my critique reveals major problems in your parties information bureau.

I agree that there are problems, but I believe much more of the blame falls on your shoulders. I do not speak French, and I have access to the same online material as anyone else here, and I&#39;ve had no problem understanding their positions and activities.


I never claimed that it was small. Also, we come back to the assertion that it is only a few months old, even though it has been operating at some level since 2000.

Please consider that there are logistical aspects of creating a national party that you and your group of friend-Marxists couldn&#39;t fathom. If you haven&#39;t seen the RCP in your city, don&#39;t worry. I&#39;m sure you will soon.

Anyway, I think a mod should probably split the last couple of posts into a seperate one. This thread is about Canadian political organizations, not a debate on the RCP (as much as I&#39;d like the two to be equated with one another :D)

And also, don&#39;t get me wrong, I appreciate your taking the time to "converse" about the RCP. You seem like a very intelligent individual; perhaps, rather than complain about the RCP&#39;s lack of English, you could write an article or two and submit them to their publishers. The last edition of the DR gave some info about (I believe) their "Office of Political Information" opening up to outside article submissions. It wouldn&#39;t kill you to contribute, would it? :)

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 08:07 am
Is the RCP Canada a cult like the RCP USA? RCP USA is basically a cult that targets naive youth, college students and mentally unstable people. They basically sucker them out their money and funnel it upwards. Nobody really considers RCP USA a political organization. Does RCP Canada work like RCP USA?
that&#39;s some fucking bullshit right there. Why is it that once a party has strong and intelligent leadership that it becomes a cult in the eyes of bourgeois cafe revolutionaries like yourself? The RCP is probably the largest communist group in the states in alot of areas, so because you think poorly of it, it "is not a serious political force"?

And how the fuck does the party "sucker people out of their money" when it doesn&#39;t even have any sort of membership fee or anything resembling one. the Party makes the opposite a point unlike a bunch of other groups which do have membership fees and etc...

the RCP doesn&#39;t sucker people. Its the Only Communist Party with a serious weekly news national Revolution a paper which brings insight to everything and has touched almost everyone who reads it in one way or another through its exposures of the crimes of the capitalist system, to its depictions of what socialist society will look like.

Now I&#39;m not saying that the party or the party&#39;s paper is perfect, I think there are criticisms to be made in all fields and that&#39;s an important part of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism,.

RNK,

why do you insist that the two RCPs are nothing alike? Both are RIM affiliates, Both are Maoist, the difference is basically in the material conditions.

[Rawthentic]

I don&#39;t mean to contradict you Henry, but size is really not something to brag about, I mean take a look at the CPUSA. They are shitty.

This is not the place to speak of the cult of personality around Avakian, but I can definitely present a more historic and materialist analysis of that than some "anti-authoritarians" and shit.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by Voz de la Gente [email protected] 26, 2007 09:53 pm

Why isn&#39;t anybody talking about setting up an ICC (Leo, this is for you) or CL chapter (Voz, this is for you) in Canada? :(

I&#39;m not interested in a new political party, but rather in a Canadian chapter (in both form and in substance) of an international party, going beyond the Second and Third Internationals (that there isn&#39;t even a modern equivalent of those half-substance-and-NO-form organizations is very worrisome :( ).

Yeah, Hammer, we have Canadian contacts and supporters as well, I can supply Comrade-Upon-Tweed with that if he so wishes, but I was under the impression that he wanted to get involved in something that was already in the works in his area, not start something new.
My only concern (for myself) is the question on "militancy," dual membership (because if the ICC sets up a Canadian chapter, this avowedly anti-sectarian person want lots of contact between the chapter&#39;s membership and your contacts/supporters, as well as the occasional joint proverbial piss on the sectarian Trotskyists and other standard "communist" groups), etc.

[Rawthentic]

I don&#39;t think it would make sense for him to join two groups that have not much presence in Canada, although I&#39;m sure the League has more than the ICC.

If he were to do so, he would have to choose one. So far, he has shown no interest in either.

[Prairie Fire]

I do see the logic in your criticism of the use of the name "of Canada", in my opinion it&#39;s rubbish.


Your group&#39;s goal is to create an organization for Victoria.

I understand more from your elaborated position, that I guess you guys are aiming for your target: All of what constitutes Canada.

Now... I have not at any time claimed that VMLO intends to stop with Vancouver Island. In a pragmatic sense, we simply refer to the areas that we hold sway for the time being. As soon as we expand out of Victoria, we will cease to VMLO, and will have to rethink our title (and tactics).

I think it is just more practicle not to consume yourselves with delusions of grandeur. VMLO has some membership living in Vancouver, but it is still not substantial enough to claim Vancouver as an area of work. When that situation changes, we will change with it.


Can you legitimately say that your organization encompasses each and every demographic, class, neighbourhood and nationality in Victoria B.C.?

Can you?

Questions:

1. Every class? Perhaps a poor choice of words. If "every class" could cooperate towards socialism, well, revolution wouldn&#39;t be necesary, would it? We include Workers, intelligentsia and aboriginals to date, but we are open to other classes not in possession of property.

2.Every Nationality? There are like 193 states generally recognized in the world, and even more nations within these borders. To count every one among your membership? At the very least we are open to all nationalities, and we cover the interests of visible national groups on the island, that is, the interests of their working class.



Although I will mention that the RCP and local anarchists do sometimes collaborate..

How? Anarchists in the states hate the RCP , seeing it as the worst of the worst of the Vanguard parties. While VMLO often has dialogue with Anarchos, the tension is fucking strong, I tell you. We have no illusions about them, and they have none about us.

How can you guys work with anarchos, and how do they work with you?
I specifically remember reading a couple page denuciation of Anarchism in PWD.


When was the english version ever made available? I&#39;ll assume, if you actually did get your hands on an English copy, it was because that other member mailed and ordered one -- so it&#39;d be his fault for not requesting a French copy as well.

No. My experience with RCP predates this organization. I recieved copies of Peoples War Digest in the mail. The french langauge literature was not included.


agree that there are problems, but I believe much more of the blame falls on your shoulders. I do not speak French, and I have access to the same online material as anyone else here, and I&#39;ve had no problem understanding their positions and activities.

<_< For a propaganda campaign to be succesful, you can&#39;t wait for people to come to you, and your site. I can make that criticism of several groups. Even VMLO is struggling with that.

Don&#39;t ever expect people to come to you for information; you have to bring it to them.




Please consider that there are logistical aspects of creating a national party that you and your group of friend-Marxists couldn&#39;t fathom

:angry: Lose the condescending attitude. I&#39;m not going to tell you again.


perhaps, rather than complain about the RCP&#39;s lack of English, you could write an article or two and submit them to their publishers. The last edition of the DR gave some info about (I believe) their "Office of Political Information" opening up to outside article submissions. It wouldn&#39;t kill you to contribute, would it?

A few problems with that statement:

1. While it is nice that you welcome articles from other organizations, you shouldn&#39;t be reliant outside of the organization for material.

2."It wouldn&#39;t kill you to contribute"? You talk as though I am subject to the discipline of your organization. You also take the tone as though you have presented this option before.

Right now I&#39;m consumed with the VMLO organ... Perhaps you could re-print a few articles.

[Cheung Mo]

I&#39;ve liked a lot of WSWS writings and think that they have the best Marxist analysis of politics and current affairs in Quebec that I have ever read (perhaps the RPC does better in French...I should check. I&#39;m more than fluent enough in French to understand without any trouble.) and when they stay out of Latin America, they seem bang on. I find their treatment of Cuba, Venezuela, and Bolivia to lean heavily towards ultra-leftism (I&#39;m more sympathetic to their sentiments towards Ortega though), but never do they advocate (as certain sectarians from more authoritarian tendencies within Venezuela, such as the Banderas Rojas, La Cosa R (whichever side they&#39;re on this week), and Movmiento Al Socialismo) that we ally against Chavez with reactionaries and social democrats.

The Socialist Equality Party seems dead in Canada though, and I&#39;ve heard they can be corrupt and thuggish.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by Voz de la Gente [email protected] 30, 2007 08:52 pm
I don&#39;t think it would make sense for him to join two groups that have not much presence in Canada, although I&#39;m sure the League has more than the ICC.

If he were to do so, he would have to choose one. So far, he has shown no interest in either.
^^^ But what I posted applies only to myself, though. I may not be a "militant" by ICC standards, and who knows what rules the two organizations have regarding external membership? :huh:

[Regardless, I want extensive organizational cooperation between the two organizations, as I do see that both groups have anti-sectarian credentials.]

"More than the ICC" - getting into a bragging rights match now, are we? ;)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Anarchists in the states hate the RCP , seeing it as the worst of the worst of the Vanguard parties.

Well, not entirely true. Many anarchists oppose the RCP, but a number of others have worked with, specifically through their anti-police brutality front and their WCW campaign.

[applejacks]

Why is it that once a party has strong and intelligent leadership

Heh. This is too funny.


that it becomes a cult in the eyes of bourgeois cafe revolutionaries like yourself? The RCP is probably the largest communist group in the states in alot of areas, so because you think poorly of it, it "is not a serious political force"?

Size? The Hare Krishnas are bigger than RCP, it doesn&#39;t make them serious. Plus, I never used the word "force." But, while we are on the subject, they are not a serious political force either. If you are going to quote me, then please do so accurately. I said that they are not a serious political organization. They are just like any number of cults that dabble in politics to raise money and sucker people. RCP basically suckers youth out of their allowance money, college students out of their loans, and mentally unstable people out of whatever. They basically recruit people to buy their trinkets, join their organization, to recruit more people to buy their trinkets. It&#39;s a standard MO for cults. They are now encouraging garage sales -- not joking, I am not making this up.


And how the fuck does the party "sucker people out of their money" when it doesn&#39;t even have any sort of membership fee or anything resembling one.

Uh, maybe you should read your own paper. Here is the link: http://revcom.us They plan to include an entire broadsheet on the topic in the next issue. Dumbass.


Its the Only Communist Party with a serious weekly news national Revolution a paper which brings insight to everything and has touched almost everyone who reads it in one way or another through its exposures of the crimes of the capitalist system, to its depictions of what socialist society will look like.

Yes, I have read about how RCP touches people in the pages of Revolution. There is Something Beginning Here Revolution #1, May 1, 2005, posted at revcom.us:


Panning up and out of these neighborhoods, the panorama of the city is beginning to look a little different. The same landmarks are still there, but there seems to be a pulsing that wasn’t apparent at the first sweeping view. There’s something growing here that can be sensed by hearing pieces of conversations caught in the wind. A youth in the gangster scene sees the DVD sampler and says, "Damn, watching that makes me think a muthafucker got to change the whole way he has been looking at things." In the projects down the street two men greet the neighbor who got them their DVD samplers by putting their fists to their hearts and shouting out, "B.A.&#33;" Farther away two young people talk outside a concert, and one begins to cry as he hears of the future envisioned by Bob Avakian—"People need this kind of leader to unleash their creativity."

Wow. I must be wrong, I guess RCP does touch people, even makes them cry. It says so right there on the webpage.

And, what do you have against cafes? I hear there are lots of them in France.

[RNK]

For a propaganda campaign to be succesful, you can&#39;t wait for people to come to you, and your site. I can make that criticism of several groups. Even VMLO is struggling with that.

Very true.


No. My experience with RCP predates this organization. I recieved copies of Peoples War Digest in the mail. The french langauge literature was not included.

I assume you didn&#39;t ask for any. Usually when orders are made from English Canada it&#39;s assumed english material is wanted, I&#39;d assume.


How? Anarchists in the states hate the RCP , seeing it as the worst of the worst of the Vanguard parties. While VMLO often has dialogue with Anarchos, the tension is fucking strong, I tell you. We have no illusions about them, and they have none about us.

How can you guys work with anarchos, and how do they work with you?
I specifically remember reading a couple page denuciation of Anarchism in PWD.

Yes, like the article by Avakian. The relationship is fragile, and there is obvious mutual distrust of one another, but the two orgs have collaborated on rallies and protests on more than one occasion IIRC. During the May 1st demo a bunch of anarchists rolled with the RCP (rather than the anarchist anti-imperialist bloc), and when the RCP broke off from the main demonstration to go lay ideological siege to the army barracks a group of anarchists joined them.

When it boils down to it, the "pickings" in Quebec are rather slim. The RCP is the most pro-active anti-government group around outside of the anarchists themselves. They just have similar goals and similar aims. Collaborating on one specific issue where each benefits is perfectly acceptable. On another point, I usually consider myself an anarcho-maoist.. ironic.

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by Hammer+July 30, 2007 08:51 pm--> (Hammer @ July 30, 2007 08:51 pm)
Voz de la Gente [email protected] 30, 2007 08:52 pm
I don&#39;t think it would make sense for him to join two groups that have not much presence in Canada, although I&#39;m sure the League has more than the ICC.

If he were to do so, he would have to choose one. So far, he has shown no interest in either.
^^^ But what I posted applies only to myself, though. I may not be a "militant" by ICC standards, and who knows what rules the two organizations have regarding external membership. :huh:

[Regardless, I want extensive organizational cooperation between the two organizations, as I do see that both groups have anti-sectarian credentials.]

"More than the ICC" - getting into a bragging rights match now, are we? ;) [/b]
To start off, the ICC is not &#39;non-sectarian&#39; they are a left-communist group. The Communist League is a party that is united around communist principles and methods, our political positions are derived from debate, discussion, and votes; we don&#39;t reject comrades that disagree with our political positions, as long as they can respect them and explain them, they can also struggle to their positions become majority ones.

And about Canada, I am pretty sure even the ICC comrades would agree that they don&#39;t really have a presence in Canada (as far as I&#39;ve heard), but I know for sure that the CL definitely does. As far as cooperation is, did you ever read Leo Uillean&#39;s "Open Letter to the Communist League" and our "Response..."?

[manic expression]

If you want my opinion, the RCP of Canada seems to have a very good program and are making progress in many ways (from what I can tell), I&#39;d try them out. To be honest, don&#39;t be afraid to try different things, you&#39;ll eventually find something you&#39;ll want to get involved in seriously. Good luck.

[NaxalbariZindabad]

Hey comrades,

A short intro to make things clear: I&#39;m an activist in Montreal region and I support the local RCP there. I&#39;m not a spokesperson, if you want to talk directly with someone from the RCP information bureau, write to info (at) pcr-rcp.ca, you&#39;ll get an answer quite quickly. Last thing: I don&#39;t speak English very well, so forgive me if I use weird formulations ;)

---

First off, thank you comrade RavenBlade for your comments. I think some of your criticisms are fairly erroneous, but it seems to me like they&#39;re expressed in a honest way. Constructive criticism is always helpful.

Now, a few comments:


First of all the name: Revolutionary Communist Party of Canada.

This is secondary, but the name of the organization is "Revolutionary Communist Party", period. People on this forum add "of Canada" to make things clearer.


There are no "single sparks" to start a "Prarie fire" on the Canadian prairies, and the same goes for most of the provinces other than Quebec and Ontario.

I really doubt that you have access to this kind of info (I know I don&#39;t). The RCP (Canada) won&#39;t publish on its website a list of cities where they have supporters. I dont wanna be rude, but this point you made is pure speculation. By the way, MLM-ists from Western Canada were present in Montreal last fall for the "canadian rev. congress".


they were an external force transplanted in Canada

I won&#39;t write too much about that, since RNK already did, but I can assure you the RCP (Canada) was not at all transplanted from another country. The impulse for founding the RCP(OC) came mostly from a two-line struggle in a marxist-leninist group that was active in Quebec between 1986 and 2000. This group was called "Action socialiste" and (if I&#39;m not mistaken) was itself started by a few "veterans" from En Lutte&#33; and the Parti communiste ouvrier.


And has not developed their own politics.

Hmm... In fact, just to give an example, the RCP (Canada) is one of the very rare groups developing a theory supporting protracted people&#39;s war in imperialist countries. I think the only other groups supporting PPW in imp. countries for now are in Italy, and they have a quite different understanding of PPW.

I agree with your comments that a decent communist party must have a good analysis of its own country&#39;s situation. I don&#39;t pretend that the RCP&#39;s analysis of Canada is perfect, but you can&#39;t just ignore it (quote: "They offer no analysis that is specific to the situation in Canada."). Significant work has been done (and is currently been done) by the RCP and its predecessors about that.

Indepht documents on the RCP analysis of the situation in Canada:

- The Canadian Proletariat and the World Situation: How We Intend to Fight (http://www.pcr-rcp.ca/en/pwd/3) (RCP-OC, Fall 2006)

- Perspectives pour le prolétariat canadien (http://www.pcr-rcp.ca/pdf/as/perspectives.pdf) (Action socialiste, Fall 1994) (This study of social classes, unions, and other questions, was produced during the two-line struggle within AS to fight against a rightist economist line.)

- To come this fall 2007 : a new Arsenal magazine (in French, at first ;)) about the First Nations in Canada

I&#39;m also told there are other documents of this kind about the social/economic/political situation of Canada which are not made public for the moment.


RCP newspapers are always...Cliche, to say the least.

I&#39;m not exactly sure what you mean, but I agree that many RCP (Canada) documents sound weird because of the translation made by Frenchies... I&#39;m sure this problem will be progressively solved as better translators join the organization. It may take some time though... there&#39;s thousands of pages that&#39;s not been translated yet :wacko:


If you&#39;re going to tell people not to vote, you kind of need to present an alternative form of action.

What about accumulating forces into a MLM vanguard party to prepare for revolution? Seems like a good alternative to me :D


On another note, RCP approached my group with the kind and generous offer to assimilate us into their organization, as their Victoria Branch. We politely declined and told them where to stick their red books. Seriously, at this point they have produced nothing more than noise and arrogance.

I really doubt that. I don&#39;t mean that I think the RCP wouldn&#39;t be interested by your organization and its work, but I know for sure that the RCP doesn&#39;t offer to assimilate a group just like that, whatever group it is. I understand that you don&#39;t get much info about the RCP over there in Victoria, but in the "activist milieu" here in Quebec it&#39;s public knowledge that you can&#39;t join the RCP just like that. Membership requires strong unity and debates often last months...

I indeed remember sending you guys a PM a couple weeks ago. But this was coming just from me personnally, not from the RCP. And I was just asking for more info about your group, as well as suggesting that you could maybe send reports about your activities, in order that we can spread that info in Quebec. I&#39;m sorry if that question and that proposition offended you :blink:


Too much cheerleading, not enough local action.

Man... you really shouldn&#39;t say that without knowing well the situation here in QC. I mean, there are many different propaganda activites and meetings each and every fucking day...


If I know nothing of your movement, then the fault is all yours. You&#39;re propaganda has been in-effective.

Obviously, you know a few things about the RCP-Canada, so its propaganda is not that ineffective :P Seriously, from what I can see, Internet isn&#39;t at all a priority for now for the RCP. The huge majority of RCP activists are out in the streets talking to the masses (mostly in Quebec, but also in Ontario & other places), not posting stuff on the web. This might explains why you don&#39;t have all the info about this organization. But if you&#39;re really interested and want to know more, write to info (at) pcr-rcp.ca and you&#39;ll get your answers.


If nothing else, the innacuracy of my critique reveals major problems in your parties information bureau.

What is reveals is that you can&#39;t know all about a party just from its website.

Another thing: you should remember that I sent you a PM on this very forum, with the intention of engaging a discussion about VMLO, as well as the RCP. I was available to talk about the RCP -- but you didn&#39;t answer -- and now you blame the RCP for not giving you enough info? :blink:


I think it is just more practicle not to consume yourselves with delusions of grandeur.

I agree. The RCP doesn&#39;t claim at all to be present in all Canada. I don&#39;t know where you heard that.


How can you guys work with anarchos, and how do they work with you?
I specifically remember reading a couple page denuciation of Anarchism in PWD.

Yeah, the RCP firmly denunces anarchist ideology, but it often works with them on a united front basis, in a non-sectarian and comradely way. For example, the RCP and anarchist groups are currently working together to organize demos against G.W. Bush&#39;s visit in Montebello. The RCP also works with other anti-capitalist groups (that are neither anarchist or maoist) on united front basis.


I recieved copies of Peoples War Digest in the mail. The french langauge literature was not included. Also, even though I was aware of a french version of your paper, it was never made available to me. Another organizational error.

Well I don&#39;t know what you asked for, but the RCP&#39;s newspaper isn&#39;t free.
Here&#39;s a PDF form that can be used to get the main RCP publications:

www.pcr-rcp.ca/pdf/order.pdf (http://www.pcr-rcp.ca/pdf/order.pdf)


If the French version contains local politics, then send me that.

Send 20 bucks to the address below, and you have my promise ;) that you&#39;ll get the paper each month for a year :

C.P. 1004, Succ. C, Montréal (QC) H2L 4V2


For a propaganda campaign to be succesful, you can&#39;t wait for people to come to you, and your site.

I agree. But what do you wanna say with that? That the RCP should round up activists from Montreal or Toronto and buy plane tickets to Victoria?


While it is nice that you welcome articles from other organizations, you shouldn&#39;t be reliant outside of the organization for material.

Thanks for the advice. That&#39;s exactly what the RCP is doing (welcoming articles from outside, but being 100% self-reliant).


Right now I&#39;m consumed with the VMLO organ...

I maybe repeating myself, but I would be interested to look at your articles when they come out.

[NaxalbariZindabad]

A few things about the RCP-Canada and the RCP-USA
-------------------------------------------------

Honestly, I didn&#39;t see the need for such a discussion in a "canadian organizations" thread, but I think I should correct a few things which seem erroneous.

To RNK:


I believe one of Avakian&#39;s smaller articles on anarchism is in the PWD. Though as far as I know that&#39;s the only mention he or the RCP USA gets in any of the RCP Canada&#39;s literature.. though I may be wrong.

As you can see at the two links below, there are a couple more mentions of the RCP,USA and Bob Avakian:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=avakian+site%3Apcr-rcp.ca
http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22RCP%2CUSA...te%3Apcr-rcp.ca (http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22RCP%2CUSA%22+site%3Apcr-rcp.ca)


Sufficed to say, the two RCP&#39;s are nothing alike.

Well... this assertion seems quite weird to me: these are two MLM parties in imperialist countries supporting RIM. That&#39;s a lot of similarities don&#39;t you think? It&#39;s obvious to me that both parties have many things in common, even though there are also crucial differences.

To RavenBlade:


I could have sworn I&#39;ve seen Avakian mentioned a few times in Peoples War Digest....

Indeed, comrade Avakian is mentioned and quoted a couple times in PWD, as well as in other publications. This shows that there is solidarity between the two organizations, as well as a mutual interest for each other&#39;s political line, but I really don&#39;t see how this is a sign that RCP-Canada and RCP-USA agree on everything.

In fact, sometimes, these quotes are used in a context where both parties agree (this article (http://www.pcr-rcp.ca/en/pwd/2e) for example), while sometimes they&#39;re used in a context where both parties disagree (this article (http://www.pcr-rcp.ca/en/pwd/1e) for example).

To GrandMonsterMao:


the RCP, USA and RCP, Canada are connected in that they are Revolutionary Internationalist Movement participants but other than that they are autonomous to one another.

In fact, the RCP,Canada isn&#39;t a RIM participant for the moment. However, it is accurate to say that RCP,Canada fully supports the RIM.

I don&#39;t know the details of how RIM&#39;s structure works, but apparently the RCP,Canada hasn&#39;t received the "status" of participating organization yet, due to debates that started in 2003 but aren&#39;t finished yet.


why do you insist that the two RCPs are nothing alike? Both are RIM affiliates, Both are Maoist, the difference is basically in the material conditions.

Well, as I&#39;ve written earlier, in my opinion it&#39;s obvious that RNK is wrong when he writes that the two RCPs are nothing alike.

However, it&#39;s true that there are serious differences between the two RCPs&#39; lines (more than just material conditions). There&#39;s no secret about that: it can be understood by reading the two parties&#39; documents.

I don&#39;t want to dig into these questions right here, but since the question has been raised, let&#39;s just say there are differences about revolutionary strategy, class analysis, international situation, methods of propaganda.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Originally posted by Voz de la Gente [email protected] 31, 2007 09:49 am
[QUOTE=Hammer,July 30, 2007 08:51 pm]To start off, the ICC is not &#39;non-sectarian&#39; they are a left-communist group. The Communist League is a party that is united around communist principles and methods, our political positions are derived from debate, discussion, and votes; we don&#39;t reject comrades that disagree with our political positions, as long as they can respect them and explain them, they can also struggle to their positions become majority ones.

And about Canada, I am pretty sure even the ICC comrades would agree that they don&#39;t really have a presence in Canada (as far as I&#39;ve heard), but I know for sure that the CL definitely does. As far as cooperation is, did you ever read Leo Uillean&#39;s "Open Letter to the Communist League" and our "Response..."?
Counter: There are plenty of strands of left communism, per se (none of which I subscribe to), from "Bordigism" to "Luxemburgism" to whatever.

Question: Could you please provide a link on those ones? I haven&#39;t read Leo&#39;s stuff or your response. Thanks.