Something I have noticed here.

[ECD Hollis]

Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.
Our grievance is with the American state, and its corporate interests, not its people.

Right wingers fall into the trap of not making that distinction.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+July 20, 2007 03:46 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ July 20, 2007 03:46 pm)
ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.
Our grievance is with the American state, and its corporate interests, not its people.

Right wingers fall into the trap of not making that distinction. [/b]
Right winger? LOL!!!!

I'm actually a moderate.


You can stop with the snide remarks. I have seen several hateful things posted about America and its people. So what you said is wrong and illogical.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

Well if that last bit was a reference to the Second World War try to recall who's tanks rolled into Berlin first.


All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

America's ideals were progressive for the time that it was founded, and the north was certainly socially more progressive during the civil war but the ideals it was built on are now outdated and it currently represents the largest imperial center of capitalism in the world.


Think people, that's all I ask.

And we of you.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.

No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+--> (ECD Hollis)
Right winger? LOL!!!!

I'm actually a moderate.[/b]
That remains to be seen.

Any moderate thinker would acknowledge the U$A's imperiali$t tendencie$.


ECD Hollis

You can stop with the snide remarks. I have seen several hateful things posted about America and its people. So what you said is wrong and illogical.
Are you going to back that statement up, or is this just more ungrounded trolling?

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Jazzrat
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

ECD Hollis

Beware, we have recently had an influx of extremely crazy Maoists. They Do hate Americans. They spell it AmeriKKKan though.

Marxists don't hate the American working class. Just the bourgeoisie and the bourgeois state that protects it and its imperialist interest through the world. Remember, your country has hundreds of military bases in the rest of the world. We dont like that fact really.

Oh and an American Empire is really a fact.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+July 20, 2007 03:57 pm--> (Jazzratt @ July 20, 2007 03:57 pm)
ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

Well if that last bit was a reference to the Second World War try to recall who's tanks rolled into Berlin first.


All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

America's ideals were progressive for the time that it was founded, and the north was certainly socially more progressive during the civil war but the ideals it was built on are now outdated and it currently represents the largest imperial center of capitalism in the world.


Think people, that's all I ask.

And we of you.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.

No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing. [/b]
What's a cretin exactly?

Anyway, yes Russia did get to Berlin first, and I am not trying to hide that, but you should also acknowledge that the US helped the people of Europe more through the war and after the war during the rebuilding process than any other country.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 pm
ECD Hollis

Beware, we have recently had an influx of extremely crazy Maoists. They Do hate Americans. They spell it AmeriKKKan though.

Marxists don't hate the American working class. Just the bourgeoisie and the bourgeois state that protects it and its imperialist interest through the world. Remember, your country has hundreds of military bases in the rest of the world. We dont like that fact really.

Oh and an American Empire is really a fact.
Maosits, Marxists, it's all the same in my eyes, and when I see that crap it pisses me off.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+July 20, 2007 03:59 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ July 20, 2007 03:59 pm)
Jazzrat
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up. [/b]
What?

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis
Anyway, yes Russia did get to Berlin first, and I am not trying to hide that, but you should also acknowledge that the US helped the people of Europe more through the war and after the war during the rebuilding process than any other country.
Only because if they hadnt their interests and cities were next in the firing line. At that time the nazis were working on bombers that could reach new york.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 05:02 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 05:02 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 pm
ECD Hollis

Beware, we have recently had an influx of extremely crazy Maoists. They Do hate Americans. They spell it AmeriKKKan though.

Marxists don't hate the American working class. Just the bourgeoisie and the bourgeois state that protects it and its imperialist interest through the world. Remember, your country has hundreds of military bases in the rest of the world. We dont like that fact really.

Oh and an American Empire is really a fact.
Maosits, Marxists, it's all the same in my eyes, and when I see that crap it pisses me off. [/b]
Well in a few months you will have learned what we're about and understand most of our arguments. Whether you agree with them or not is another matter. :)

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 04:03 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 04:03 pm)
Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+July 20, 2007 03:59 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ July 20, 2007 03:59 pm)
[email protected]
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up. [/b]
What? [/b]
Do you care to back this one up?
You said that i personally said snide things about the american people, and that i said things which are illogical and in regards to proving this you have failed on both counts.

ECD Hollis
You can stop with the snide remarks. I have seen several hateful things posted about America and its people. So what you said is wrong and illogical.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+July 20, 2007 03:59 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ July 20, 2007 03:59 pm)
Jazzrat
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up. [/b]
Yeah it seems I spoke too soon.

ECD

A cretin is someone suffering from a genetic defect that makes them slow, it is also a term used in much the same way as a person would use "retard".

I don't deny the help that America gave, especially in the first World War but that does not absolve it from being a neo-liberal imperialist power. The amount of exploitation that occurs in the name of America around the world is appalling.

I will say this for America though - it has some great scenery and some of the people are simply fabulous.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+July 20, 2007 04:07 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ July 20, 2007 04:07 pm)
Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 04:03 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 04:03 pm)
Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 pm

[email protected]
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up.
What? [/b]
Do you care to back this one up?
You said that i personally said snide things about the american people, and that i said things which are illogical and in regards to proving this you have failed on both counts.

ECD Hollis
You can stop with the snide remarks. I have seen several hateful things posted about America and its people. So what you said is wrong and illogical. [/b]
"Right wingers fall into the trap of not making that distinction. "



That was a snide remark.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+July 20, 2007 04:09 pm--> (Jazzratt @ July 20, 2007 04:09 pm)
Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 pm

Jazzrat
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up.
Yeah it seems I spoke too soon.

ECD

A cretin is someone suffering from a genetic defect that makes them slow, it is also a term used in much the same way as a person would use "retard".

I don't deny the help that America gave, especially in the first World War but that does not absolve it from being a neo-liberal imperialist power. The amount of exploitation that occurs in the name of America around the world is appalling.

I will say this for America though - it has some great scenery and some of the people are simply fabulous. [/b]
Yep Naom Chomsky comes to mind.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+July 20, 2007 04:09 pm--> (Jazzratt @ July 20, 2007 04:09 pm)
Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 pm

Jazzrat
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up.
Yeah it seems I spoke too soon.

ECD

A cretin is someone suffering from a genetic defect that makes them slow, it is also a term used in much the same way as a person would use "retard".

I don't deny the help that America gave, especially in the first World War but that does not absolve it from being a neo-liberal imperialist power. The amount of exploitation that occurs in the name of America around the world is appalling.

I will say this for America though - it has some great scenery and some of the people are simply fabulous. [/b]
What did I "fuck" up? Excuse my language I was merely quoting.

[Raúl Duke]

It may be the same to you now...but many of the older members of the OI begin to see the distinctions of the left (as you would know, there are also distinctions of the right, and of the moderates)

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 04:13 pm
What did I "fuck" up? Excuse my language I was merely quoting.
Your inability to answer direct points, your complaints of "snide remarks" and the like show you're not operating at a high-IQ level.

Don't worry about swearing, most of us are adults and all of us can take it on the chin.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+July 20, 2007 04:11 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ July 20, 2007 04:11 pm)
Originally posted by Jazzratt+July 20, 2007 04:09 pm--> (Jazzratt @ July 20, 2007 04:09 pm)
Ulster [email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 pm

Jazzrat
No offence taken, having an opposing ideologue who isn't a complete cretin is really quite refreshing.
whoops! I think he's fucked that one up.
Yeah it seems I spoke too soon.

ECD

A cretin is someone suffering from a genetic defect that makes them slow, it is also a term used in much the same way as a person would use "retard".

I don't deny the help that America gave, especially in the first World War but that does not absolve it from being a neo-liberal imperialist power. The amount of exploitation that occurs in the name of America around the world is appalling.

I will say this for America though - it has some great scenery and some of the people are simply fabulous. [/b]
Yep Naom Chomsky comes to mind. [/b]
As nice scenery or as a fabulous person?

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+July 20, 2007 04:19 pm--> (Jazzratt @ July 20, 2007 04:19 pm)
ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 04:13 pm
What did I "fuck" up? Excuse my language I was merely quoting.
Your inability to answer direct points, your complaints of "snide remarks" and the like show you're not operating at a high-IQ level.

Don't worry about swearing, most of us are adults and all of us can take it on the chin. [/b]
I try to refrain from swearing, because I feel it is childish.

I did answer his question, go up a couple of posts.

"high-IQ level"

Are you serous? Are you implying that I lack the ability for rational thought?

[Glory to Bethune]

The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie. Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie. Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker. The key issue here is that Amerikkkan "workers" are part of the global bourgeoisie and the global ruling class. What is "anti-worker" about advocating that the proletariat (most Third World workers) overthrow the bourgeoisie (not only the comprador bourgeoisie in the Third World but also the imperialist bourgeoisie that makes up almost the entire population of the First World)? "Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on) for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

The U$ actually supported Nazi Germany well into the 1940s, hoping that it would invade the glorious Soviet Union (which it did) and overthrow the socialist state (which it didn't). The U$ and other big imperialist powers thought that they had cut a deal for "peace in our time" with fascism. Only when Germany turned too aggressive and began to threaten the interests of the other imperialist countries in its campaign for imperial conquest did the U$ even enter the war. And then it did hardly anything. Sakai says in his great book "Settlers": "As late as April 1943, Soviet forces were fighting 185 Nazi divisions while the U.S. and British Empires were together fighting 6." The U$ and Britain only rushed in during the last six months of the war to take the credit for the Soviet victory and grab control over Western Europe. It was the glorious Soviet Union that saved the world from fascism, no thanks to Britain or the U$.

The presence of ignorant imperialist scum on this board is considered "really quite refreshing," while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration. That speaks volumes about the "revolutionary left" character of this site. I'm leaving.

[Marsella]

Maosits, Marxists, it's all the same in my eyes, and when I see that crap it pisses me off.

Moderates, rightists - they're all the same for us.


The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie. Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie. Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker. The key issue here is that Amerikkkan "workers" are part of the global bourgeoisie and the global ruling class. What is "anti-worker" about advocating that the proletariat (most Third World workers) overthrow the bourgeoisie (not only the comprador bourgeoisie in the Third World but also the imperialist bourgeoisie that makes up almost the entire population of the First World)? "Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on) for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

The U$ actually supported Nazi Germany well into the 1940s, hoping that it would invade the glorious Soviet Union (which it did) and overthrow the socialist state (which it didn't). The U$ and other big imperialist powers thought that they had cut a deal for "peace in our time" with fascism. Only when Germany turned too aggressive and began to threaten the interests of the other imperialist countries in its campaign for imperial conquest did the U$ even enter the war. And then it did hardly anything. Sakai says in his great book "Settlers": "As late as April 1943, Soviet forces were fighting 185 Nazi divisions while the U.S. and British Empires were together fighting 6." The U$ and Britain only rushed in during the last six months of the war to take the credit for the Soviet victory and grab control over Western Europe. It was the glorious Soviet Union that saved the world from fascism, no thanks to Britain or the U$.

The presence of ignorant imperialist scum on this board is considered "really quite refreshing," while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration. That speaks volumes about the "revolutionary left" character of this site. I'm leaving.

From this complete **** of a response I see two possibilites:

1. You are a troll. Claiming to be communist whilst vomiting complete fascist garbage.

2. You THINK you are a communist but have as about as much knowledge about communism as I do on nuclear physics. (Note: I don't know anything about nuclear physics.)

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Glory to [email protected] 20, 2007 04:29 pm
The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie. Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie. Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker. The key issue here is that Amerikkkan "workers" are part of the global bourgeoisie and the global ruling class. What is "anti-worker" about advocating that the proletariat (most Third World workers) overthrow the bourgeoisie (not only the comprador bourgeoisie in the Third World but also the imperialist bourgeoisie that makes up almost the entire population of the First World)? "Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on) for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

The U$ actually supported Nazi Germany well into the 1940s, hoping that it would invade the glorious Soviet Union (which it did) and overthrow the socialist state (which it didn't). The U$ and other big imperialist powers thought that they had cut a deal for "peace in our time" with fascism. Only when Germany turned too aggressive and began to threaten the interests of the other imperialist countries in its campaign for imperial conquest did the U$ even enter the war. And then it did hardly anything. Sakai says in his great book "Settlers": "As late as April 1943, Soviet forces were fighting 185 Nazi divisions while the U.S. and British Empires were together fighting 6." The U$ and Britain only rushed in during the last six months of the war to take the credit for the Soviet victory and grab control over Western Europe. It was the glorious Soviet Union that saved the world from fascism, no thanks to Britain or the U$.

The presence of ignorant imperialist scum on this board is considered "really quite refreshing," while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration. That speaks volumes about the "revolutionary left" character of this site. I'm leaving.
What the hell? :mellow:


This is the kind of crap I am talking about.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 04:36 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 04:36 pm)
Glory to [email protected] 20, 2007 04:29 pm
The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie. Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie. Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker. The key issue here is that Amerikkkan "workers" are part of the global bourgeoisie and the global ruling class. What is "anti-worker" about advocating that the proletariat (most Third World workers) overthrow the bourgeoisie (not only the comprador bourgeoisie in the Third World but also the imperialist bourgeoisie that makes up almost the entire population of the First World)? "Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on) for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

The U$ actually supported Nazi Germany well into the 1940s, hoping that it would invade the glorious Soviet Union (which it did) and overthrow the socialist state (which it didn't). The U$ and other big imperialist powers thought that they had cut a deal for "peace in our time" with fascism. Only when Germany turned too aggressive and began to threaten the interests of the other imperialist countries in its campaign for imperial conquest did the U$ even enter the war. And then it did hardly anything. Sakai says in his great book "Settlers": "As late as April 1943, Soviet forces were fighting 185 Nazi divisions while the U.S. and British Empires were together fighting 6." The U$ and Britain only rushed in during the last six months of the war to take the credit for the Soviet victory and grab control over Western Europe. It was the glorious Soviet Union that saved the world from fascism, no thanks to Britain or the U$.

The presence of ignorant imperialist scum on this board is considered "really quite refreshing," while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration. That speaks volumes about the "revolutionary left" character of this site. I'm leaving.
What the hell? :mellow:


This is the kind of crap I am talking about. [/b]
this doesnt prove that all communists are 'anti american' any more than it proves all christians are extremist pro life abortion clinic bombers.

[Marsella]

@ ECD Hollis

Quotes by YOU:


What do you guys think about going to war with Iran? I personally do not think it would be a very good idea right now, but I know for a fact that Iran will not stop their nuclear program. I think diplomacy with Iran will no longer be an option after 2007. In 2008 if nothing has happened, I think we should deal with them. What do you guys think?

Sounds kinky!


Wars are sometimes needed. No one likes war. Not even Bush likes war, but he thought it was needed, and apparently it was.

Yeah! Especially to locate those WMDs and destroy the Saddam-Osama alliance!


I am a Patriot and my vote will go to whatever party I see following the Constitution the most, and as of right now the Republicans.

God bless you!


I am a Christian and I am even more proud of my God than my country.

I'd also proud of my imaginary friend - even more so than my country.

Commenting on why America is hated so:

Because of the propoganda countries poison people with, including here in the US.

It might also have to do with putting a bomb through someone's window. That would really piss me off eh! :rolleyes:

Conclusion: Oblivion is a mad game but your a wanker.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 04:58 pm
@ ECD Hollis

Quotes by YOU:


What do you guys think about going to war with Iran? I personally do not think it would be a very good idea right now, but I know for a fact that Iran will not stop their nuclear program. I think diplomacy with Iran will no longer be an option after 2007. In 2008 if nothing has happened, I think we should deal with them. What do you guys think?

Sounds kinky!


Wars are sometimes needed. No one likes war. Not even Bush likes war, but he thought it was needed, and apparently it was.

Yeah! Especially to locate those WMDs and destroy the Saddam-Osama alliance!


I am a Patriot and my vote will go to whatever party I see following the Constitution the most, and as of right now the Republicans.

God bless you!


I am a Christian and I am even more proud of my God than my country.

I'd also proud of my imaginary friend - even more so than my country.

Commenting on why America is hated so:

Because of the propoganda countries poison people with, including here in the US.

It might also have to do with putting a bomb through someone's window. That would really piss me off eh! :rolleyes:

Conclusion: Oblivion is a mad game but your a wanker.
What? You got those quotes from my forum.

Anyway, I stand by everything I said.

I have a question for a mod. Is it okay for him to speak to me this way? Mocking me and such?

[Marsella]

Anyway, I stand by everything I said.

I have a question for a mod. Is it okay for him to speak to me this way? Mocking me and such?

Personally, I think that considering to join the Republican party is damaging enough to your social image. That AND your above comments.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 05:12 pm

Anyway, I stand by everything I said.

I have a question for a mod. Is it okay for him to speak to me this way? Mocking me and such?

Personally, I think that considering to join the Republican party is damaging enough to your social image. That AND your above comments.
I really don't care about my "Social image", if you do that's a problem of yours, not mine. Again, I stand by everything I said.

I have been very respectful to you guys, and I appreciate it if you would do the same to me.

[Publius]

Well if that last bit was a reference to the Second World War try to recall who's tanks rolled into Berlin first.


Not to discount the Soviet Union's aid to the cause, but if we would have wanted to take Berlin, we could have.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 05:19 pm


Well if that last bit was a reference to the Second World War try to recall who's tanks rolled into Berlin first.


Not to discount the Soviet Union's aid to the cause, but if we would have wanted to take Berlin, we could have.
My thoughts exactly.

[Dr Mindbender]

what was stopping them then? Their airforce pilots were dropping like flies over axis terrirtory. Not to mention their soldiers being slaughtered on the ground. Or did the lives of their fighting men mean that little to them?

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by Glory to [email protected] 20, 2007 04:29 pm
The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie. Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie. Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker. The key issue here is that Amerikkkan "workers" are part of the global bourgeoisie and the global ruling class. What is "anti-worker" about advocating that the proletariat (most Third World workers) overthrow the bourgeoisie (not only the comprador bourgeoisie in the Third World but also the imperialist bourgeoisie that makes up almost the entire population of the First World)? "Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on) for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

The U$ actually supported Nazi Germany well into the 1940s, hoping that it would invade the glorious Soviet Union (which it did) and overthrow the socialist state (which it didn't). The U$ and other big imperialist powers thought that they had cut a deal for "peace in our time" with fascism. Only when Germany turned too aggressive and began to threaten the interests of the other imperialist countries in its campaign for imperial conquest did the U$ even enter the war. And then it did hardly anything. Sakai says in his great book "Settlers": "As late as April 1943, Soviet forces were fighting 185 Nazi divisions while the U.S. and British Empires were together fighting 6." The U$ and Britain only rushed in during the last six months of the war to take the credit for the Soviet victory and grab control over Western Europe. It was the glorious Soviet Union that saved the world from fascism, no thanks to Britain or the U$.

The presence of ignorant imperialist scum on this board is considered "really quite refreshing," while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration. That speaks volumes about the "revolutionary left" character of this site. I'm leaving.
Good. Leave one and for all, genocidal trash. Why you weren't banned is quite frankly beyond me. You aren't even a Marxist, as you don't analyze peoples' relations to the means of production - you just baselessly assert that all "AmeriKKKans" are one reactionary mass, and your prospects for the US amount to genocide of 300 million people. You will never win anyone over to your ultra-reactionary vomit. The tastes , customs, etc. of the US working class will never tolerate a typical Stalinist bureaucracy, so what makes you think they would tolerate your genocidal cult?


Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.

Actually, I am against the US bourgeoisie. It doesn't make any sense to be against myself and the rest of the US working class.

The USSR is what stopped Nazi Germany. The US and her allies were sitting around, hoping that Nazi Germany and the USSR would exhaust each other so they could mop both of them up. When the USSR turned the tide, the US and co. rushed in to advance from Western Europe, for they knew if they didn't do this, they would have met the Red Army at the English Channel, not in Germany. The US's role in defeating Hitler isn't nearly as big as the US "historians" make it out to be.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.
I have nothing against USA.

I do not hate anyone, except maybe Tinky-Winky, La-La, Dipsy and Po.

[Ol' Dirty]

I do not hate anyone, except maybe Tinky-Winky , La-La, Dipsy and Po.

:unsure:

But...

Tinky-Winky is the bomb! :wub:

Man-purse! :D

In seriousity (© Lovely 2007,) I love America.

I hate the way it's run. I hate all of the internalized racism and racialism, sexism, homophobia, heterosexism, and other bigotries that make it run the way it does. I hate our states capitalistic nature. I hate how our state is so lazzeiz-faire that we just let our poor die in their own shit, and we're the freest nation on earth. I hate what are millitary does to people in and outside of our country. I really hate Hummers (especially the yellow ones! :angry: ) I hate Tofurky. I really, really hate Tofurky.

But I don't hate America. :)

[Publius]

what was stopping them then?

Caution.


Their airforce pilots were dropping like flies over axis terrirtory.

By the end of the war the Allies had total air superiority.


Not to mention their soldiers being slaughtered on the ground. Or did the lives of their fighting men mean that little to them?

It was precisely because the lives of soldiers meant something to them that they didn't smash through German lines and head straight for Berlin.

But the resistance on the Western front was much lighter than on the East.

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.
Fuck off. The US only got involved in WWII after Pearl Harbour when they themselves were attacked. Before then they didn't help their British allies at all. And the fact the allies won had nothing to do with the US. They won because the Nazis were fighting a war on two fronts; the western front (Britain etc.) and the eastern front (USSR etc.). So actually, although you American patriots hate to admit it, the USSR helped europe win the war.


All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Really? An imperialist nation who invades countries for being 'communist' and invades other countries after accusing them of harbouring weapons which they know full well don't exist and then kills a huge proportion of these countries' civilian population and completely fucks up any form of government they once had whilst provoking and encouraging rival groups in these countries to war with each other? That's not evil?

Not to mention the fact that the US has the biggest rich-poor divide in the world, is responsible for third world poverty, Israeli imperialism and the AIDS problem in Africa and is a country which has been run by some of the most notorious liars the world has ever seen.

I think it is you who needs to read up on the truth about your oh so fucking precious little shithole of a country.

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 04:36 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 04:36 pm)
Glory to [email protected] 20, 2007 04:29 pm
The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie. Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie. Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker. The key issue here is that Amerikkkan "workers" are part of the global bourgeoisie and the global ruling class. What is "anti-worker" about advocating that the proletariat (most Third World workers) overthrow the bourgeoisie (not only the comprador bourgeoisie in the Third World but also the imperialist bourgeoisie that makes up almost the entire population of the First World)? "Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on) for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

The U$ actually supported Nazi Germany well into the 1940s, hoping that it would invade the glorious Soviet Union (which it did) and overthrow the socialist state (which it didn't). The U$ and other big imperialist powers thought that they had cut a deal for "peace in our time" with fascism. Only when Germany turned too aggressive and began to threaten the interests of the other imperialist countries in its campaign for imperial conquest did the U$ even enter the war. And then it did hardly anything. Sakai says in his great book "Settlers": "As late as April 1943, Soviet forces were fighting 185 Nazi divisions while the U.S. and British Empires were together fighting 6." The U$ and Britain only rushed in during the last six months of the war to take the credit for the Soviet victory and grab control over Western Europe. It was the glorious Soviet Union that saved the world from fascism, no thanks to Britain or the U$.

The presence of ignorant imperialist scum on this board is considered "really quite refreshing," while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration. That speaks volumes about the "revolutionary left" character of this site. I'm leaving.
What the hell? :mellow:


This is the kind of crap I am talking about. [/b]
That guy does not represent all leftists. In fact, he does not represent any leftists. He is a fascist who believes he is a leftist, hence why he is restricted.


Not even Bush likes war

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but you have to laugh at such blatant naivity.

If Bush didn't like war he wouldn't have bent over backwards to make up an excuse to invade Iraq.

[BlackSun]

ECD Hollis, I read your initial-post but not all the replies, just a few (my bad I suppose). And I certainly can't speak for everyone, just for myself. However, I think that it is you who should "truly study America and its ideals".

Yes, just like everywhere else, there are many good aspects about this country and its history. Still, fully realize that this nation; again, just like all others, from its very outset is covered in dirt and drenched in blood.

So let's be for real about it, okay.

[ECD Hollis]

Whatever I am done wih this thread.

I love my country and I would gladly lay down my life for it.

Think what you want about me, and my country, I'm just sick of the bickering.

Some of you guys have been really nice to me, but the majority of you guys here have been really rude and vile towards me, and that reflects on all of you. My opinion of leftists has not changed.

The people who have insulted me in this thread obviously lack the capacity for a rational conversation. God bless.

- ECD Hollis

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 21, 2007 04:51 pm
Whatever I am done wih this thread.

I love my country and I would gladly lay down my life for it.

Think what you want about me, and my country, I'm just sick of the bickering.

Some of you guys have been really nice to me, but the majority of you guys here have been really rude and vile towards me, and that reflects on all of you. My opinion of leftists has not changed.

The people who have insulted me in this thread obviously lack the capacity for a rational conversation. God bless.

- ECD Hollis

ECD, what if you weren't born in America, but in Iran, Iraq or somewhere else? You don't choose your parents and you don't choose where you are born, so why so proud? Would you die for Iran and love it if you were born there?

[An archist]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.
http://www.amazon.com/Rogue-State-Guide-Wo...r/dp/1567511945 (http://www.amazon.com/Rogue-State-Guide-Worlds-Superpower/dp/1567511945)

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+July 21, 2007 03:56 pm--> (Red_Anarchist @ July 21, 2007 03:56 pm)
ECD [email protected] 21, 2007 04:51 pm
Whatever I am done wih this thread.

I love my country and I would gladly lay down my life for it.

Think what you want about me, and my country, I'm just sick of the bickering.

Some of you guys have been really nice to me, but the majority of you guys here have been really rude and vile towards me, and that reflects on all of you. My opinion of leftists has not changed.

The people who have insulted me in this thread obviously lack the capacity for a rational conversation. God bless.

- ECD Hollis

ECD, what if you weren't born in America, but in Iran, Iraq or somewhere else? You don't choose your parents and you don't choose where you are born, so why so proud? Would you die for Iran and love it if you were born there? [/b]
I couldn't say.


The fact still remains, regardless of what some of you may say, I would gladly die for my country.

[BlackSun]

QUOTE (ECD Hollis @ July 21, 2007 04:51 pm)

I couldn't say.


The fact still remains, regardless of what some of you may say, I would gladly die for my country.
And I guess that’s one of the major differences between you and I because would never die for this or any other country and superficial b***s*** symbolisms, I would only put my life on the line for what is right. What is thoroughly shown to be right and correct will gain my full support, otherwise, f*** 'em. No matter who or what it is.

And, no, I do not mean that things in life are just that cut and dry. I do realize that everything isn't in black and white, that there are shades of gray. However, I'm sure people will understand where I'm basically coming from (those with common sense, anyway).

[Capitalist Lawyer]

As nice scenery or as a fabulous person?

Fabulous person defined as what? Good looking? Talented? Famous? Wealthy?

How elitist of you.

And how can communists say that they have no problem with America's people? Aren't Americans the most reactionary, easily scared, patriotic, pro-imperialistic, and anti-communistic people on the planet? At least the majority is like that and even its working-class...who may be "misguided" in your views and can be persuaded to the Marxist way of thinking under the right circumstances.

I'm not saying it's wrong or anything but there's no need to be politically correct here. I mean, I have problems with certain sectors of the American population, I won't lie.

A little honesty is appreciated here and that's one thing I like about you communists. You are honest and sincere about your views on things.

Don't disappoint me, please.

[la-troy]

The fact still remains, regardless of what some of you may say, I would gladly die for my country.

Can you tell me exactly what you are dying for?

I mean what does your country stand for.

If you say freedom then yes the US has some pretty free people.

But last summer a friend of mine went there he was arrested for no reason otherwise than some other black guy had committed a crime a couple blocks away. a relative of mine told me that with my skin complexion i should avoid certain neighborhoods, not because of crime but because i would get arrested. how free is that? is that the freedom your dying for?

[luxemburg89]

The people who have insulted me in this thread obviously lack the capacity for a rational conversation. God bless.


Don't bless us with God - that's an insult to us. Also your failure to distinguish between Maoists and other leftists, and the use of cliché 'would be speaking German if it wasn't for America' bollocks that you have come out with shows that you are fully deserving of all offence.


I would gladly die for my country.

Please, please, please do.

EDIT- typo

[freakazoid]

I have a question for a mod. Is it okay for him to speak to me this way? Mocking me and such?

Yes, and expect it to happen often, cheers. :D


this doesnt prove that all communists are 'anti american' any more than it proves all christians are extremist pro life abortion clinic bombers.

:wub:


whatever party I see following the Constitution the most, and as of right now the Republicans.

The Republicans!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL XD If you want a party that is pro-Constitution try the libertarians. NOT the Republicans!!


I am a Christian and I am even more proud of my God than my country.

You should not even be proud of your country.

Read;

Matthew 6

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

1 Samuels 8

1 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as judges for Israel. 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not walk in his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.

4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, "You are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways; now appoint a king to lead [a] us, such as all the other nations have."

6 But when they said, "Give us a king to lead us," this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."

10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle [b] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day."

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles."

We are to reject men as our masters. You should read some Leo Tolstoy or some Jacques Elul, :D

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by Glory to Bethune+July 20, 2007 01:29 pm--> (Glory to Bethune @ July 20, 2007 01:29 pm) The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. [/b]
This is nothing but comicbookism


Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Fortunately, I have already dismissed the term "leftist" and I expect to see this forum's name simply changed to Revolutionaries.com/.net in the next century.


Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie.

That happens on every capitalist nation, all the time! Even people in third world countries would be "pro-imperialist" if their countries were imperialist.


Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

So there's not bourgeoisie, in the US, only petit-bourgeois, right? :lol:


Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie.

Learn to type


Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker.

You're more "anti-worker" than Dick Cheney.


"Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on)

Decadent? :lol:


for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

I live in what is usually considered a "Third World" country and not only people have to work but they also buy cars and clothes and other "decadent goodies" (?)

You have no idea about reality whatsoever, or so it seems.


while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration.

ComradeRed is not banned


I'm leaving.

Good!


ECD Hollis
Everyone here hates the US!!!

I don't. I like jeans. I like rock'n'roll and to an extent blues. I like some of your architecture and writers. I like the internet. If I hated "the US" I wouldn't like this things because they came out from your culture, as flawed as it might be. I hate the US as much as I hate any other nation - that is, I "hate" those in power and the consequences of their existance.


All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off

Most people here is aware of those and realize they're essentially a lie (ie: that the US doesn't really promote them or respect them).


Maosits, Marxists, it's all the same in my eyes

Whoa, hold on there. There's a huge difference between Maoists, Council Communists, Trotskyists, Anarcho-Syndicalists and Situationists, for example. Saying "it's all the same" is ridiculous. Don't fall for that trick of "putting everyone who disagrees with me in the same bag so they are easier to attack". Revolutionaries are a very divided "group" (insert cliché about Trotskyist sects here). There's people here, for example, that thinks that the USSR was an almost perfect "worker's state", others think it was a deformed "workers' state" and others think it was "capitalism with red flags". For your God's sake, do a bit of research.

[RNK]

1) Stop adding "ism" to the name of whatever new catchphrase you come up with to make it sound more ideologically intelligent when you refute someone.

2)
I would gladly die for my country.

And I would gladly kill you for your country as well.

[EwokUtopia]

If you are reffering to the radical anti-Americanism, please do note that such members have been restricted, and we have argued to the brim with them. They are ridiculous.

As for the other anti-Americanism, it is merely anti-Imperialism, and the US is the top-dog of western Imperialist states. We are also against the Canadian, Austrailian, Israeli, French, British, German.......fuck, pretty much any government you can name. US is only the most talked about because it is the big one, the elephant in the room if you'll pardon my pun. Thats nothing against the American people in the slightest. We think that even though we are privileged, the people of G8 nations are just that, people, and can not be blamed for being born into their situation unless they have used that situation to further exploit people.

[RNK]

I agree. Nobody here hates America as a country (well, maybe some). We hate America as a government, as an exporter of imperialism and as the world's most powerful capitalist system. It's no secret that most of the wars and conflicts in the past 60 years are because of the US; or that US corporations sew misery and destruction over vast areas of the planet.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 21, 2007 03:51 pm
Whatever I am done wih this thread.

I love my country and I would gladly lay down my life for it.

Think what you want about me, and my country, I'm just sick of the bickering.

Some of you guys have been really nice to me, but the majority of you guys here have been really rude and vile towards me, and that reflects on all of you. My opinion of leftists has not changed.

The people who have insulted me in this thread obviously lack the capacity for a rational conversation. God bless.

- ECD Hollis
http://www.annezelenka.com/images/crying_baby.gif

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21, 2007 07:59 pm

As nice scenery or as a fabulous person?

Fabulous person defined as what? Good looking? Talented? Famous? Wealthy?

How elitist of you.

And how can communists say that they have no problem with America's people? Aren't Americans the most reactionary, easily scared, patriotic, pro-imperialistic, and anti-communistic people on the planet? At least the majority is like that and even its working-class...who may be "misguided" in your views and can be persuaded to the Marxist way of thinking under the right circumstances.

I'm not saying it's wrong or anything but there's no need to be politically correct here. I mean, I have problems with certain sectors of the American population, I won't lie.

A little honesty is appreciated here and that's one thing I like about you communists. You are honest and sincere about your views on things.

Don't disappoint me, please.
Well first thanks for saying we're at least honest. We'd love for capitalists to be more honest out in the open. Then maybe, IMO, the people would see the capitalists for what they are.

Second, we don't have a problem with the poor working United Statian people. I know the majority of the United Statian working people think themselves as "anti-communist" and "pro-imperialist" but what makes me NOT hate them is because they never can explain WHY they're "anti-communist". These are the majority of the United Statian people.

In fact when people start talking to me about politics and they find out I'm a communist, they go crazy and we start debating. Then I just finish the conversation by saying "ok, please, before we go on, I want you to define communism and many of it's basics". Thats when they say forget it and they end the political talk.

Now there are also people in the U.S. who KNOW THE DEFINITION of communism and they don't like the idea because they're well off themselves living in some nice house in the suburbs with their SUV, far far away from the colored people in the inner city. They believe that they DESVERVE their nice life and that those poor in the inner cities (or anywhere in the U.S. for that matter), similarly DESERVE their fate. There are not as many of these people (from what I've seen in the U.S.). They usually are in the upper middle class suburbia. Again there are not as many of them as we think.

THEN there are the ULTRA rich who obviously don't even bother to challenge us communists so no need explain. The U.S. politians are in this category. Just think like this, put your best republicans and best democrats in a debate against our best communists and you'll see how most of these U.S. politians either agree that the poor deserve everything they get (which will anger the people so they'll avoid doing it but it will be enevitable in the debate), or they themselves won't know what the communists are talking about and the U.S. politians will just look like the 2.0 GPA mediocore college students they were.

Point is, we love the U.S. working poor even though they do not know why they hate us. Shows how we are caring people. :D

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 08:25 am
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

Yes, I do hate my government. (Well except maybe Dennis Kucinich...)

Also as Jazz pointed out the USSR did 99% of the work on the Eastern Front.


All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.

We do, that's why this site is here.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.


I did, and a very indeapth study will show that the "values" and "ideals" you may be reffering to are sick AND a very indepth study can also show you that the poor people of the United States were FORCED into these values which is why they're blind.

Try reading a book called the Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_...e_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_United_States)

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-Unit...t/dp/0060528370 (http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-1492-Present/dp/0060528370)

HELL, even read the WHOLE BOOK FOR FREE here:

http://historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

It's a good read.

[hajduk]

ECD take some speed might help :D

[ECD Hollis]

Well, to be honest I am not going to keep reading these posts that came after mine, because they are all insulting me. Seriously people in this thread have wished me to die, if this is how the left acts, than I want no part of it. Again my opinion of the left has not changed, and you can thank the hateful responses in this thread that I got.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 21, 2007 04:51 pm
Whatever I am done wih this thread.

I love my country and I would gladly lay down my life for it.

Think what you want about me, and my country, I'm just sick of the bickering.

Some of you guys have been really nice to me, but the majority of you guys here have been really rude and vile towards me, and that reflects on all of you. My opinion of leftists has not changed.

The people who have insulted me in this thread obviously lack the capacity for a rational conversation. God bless.

- ECD Hollis
1. It is not your country. You only have the right to vote and you help to chose people who have all the power, who don't act on the behave of the majority but in the interests of companies, banks, multinationals, etc. People with economic power have more chances to really decide what the government has to do than (ordinary) people like you who can only vote each 4, 5 or sometimes 6 or more years (depending on the country where you live). The people most voters vote for are the ones who get in the media the most, who have to most money to makes massive campaigns, etc.
The media, which informs you people, are manipulative, and therefor when most people vote for the people they see, hear the most it is just stupid to believe that you are really "represented". These representatives don't ask the people what they want. They have an agenda, take the best and most atractive parts of it, show it to the media and try to get elected.

2. Many gladly gave their lives. Haven't we spoiled enough of people like you in wars like the one of Iraq or Vietnam, the second World War, the First World War; etc. ? It's your choise, but in every country there are people like you who would like to give their lives for their country. And you can ignore the lies surrounding American wars (like it's against terrorisme, it's against enemies of humanity, ..), that's what nationalism, and pride is meant for. But don't you admit that many countries like Nazi-Germany were really bad? But then, what do you think of those people who gave their lives for Nazi-Germany? Stupid people? Fooled people?
Think then about what you said about America. I live in Belgium, a rather fine country compared to America, but I certainly do not want to give my live for a country that does not let common people like me decide what's good for themselves.

Nationalism is a medium to create countries controled by leaders or break up countries to make smaller countries out of the split regions, but again controled by elites. America is created during the war for independance or American Revolution and during the Civil war. There's no need for nationalism now, yet you leaders will stimulate it to get people like you at the front in some other country than yours where thousands of people die every month. So don't you dare to admit to this and make nationalism a medium to spoil people's lives.

3. No reason why some of us cannot control their feelings and just insult you or laugh with you. They're sick of this world and laugh at people who wont admit.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 21, 2007 04:51 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 21, 2007 04:51 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 03:56 pm

ECD [email protected] 21, 2007 04:51 pm
Whatever I am done wih this thread.

I love my country and I would gladly lay down my life for it.

Think what you want about me, and my country, I'm just sick of the bickering.

Some of you guys have been really nice to me, but the majority of you guys here have been really rude and vile towards me, and that reflects on all of you. My opinion of leftists has not changed.

The people who have insulted me in this thread obviously lack the capacity for a rational conversation. God bless.

- ECD Hollis

ECD, what if you weren't born in America, but in Iran, Iraq or somewhere else? You don't choose your parents and you don't choose where you are born, so why so proud? Would you die for Iran and love it if you were born there?
I couldn't say.


The fact still remains, regardless of what some of you may say, I would gladly die for my country. [/b]
Then do so! I would lay down my life against this country. The United States Government has been responsible for deaths on an unprecedented scale. It's funded insurgent organizations (such as the Taliban, the AUC, and various groups in Nicaragua) in order to combat socialism and workers freedoms. They have invaded countries if it threatens any of the US imperialist interests (ESPECIALLY oil and globalizing capitalist survival interest, take a look at what the US did to Iraq), shot and starved workers, exploited, oppressed, assassinated, wounded, kidnapped, and lock up workers that speak out here and abroad. I would fight against this country and it's government in order to free the people of the US, and in turn, the world, for if the US turns into a worker's state, capitalism will eventually come crashing down!

FREEDOM FOREVER! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

[The-Spark]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 25, 2007 03:46 pm
Well, to be honest I am not going to keep reading these posts that came after mine, because they are all insulting me. Seriously people in this thread have wished me to die, if this is how the left acts, than I want no part of it. Again my opinion of the left has not changed, and you can thank the hateful responses in this thread that I got.
Do you really not want to read the posts becuz their insulting you or because you realize that we're right and that the U.$.A isnt lookin so pretty anymore?

[Comrade_Scott]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 10:02 am--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 10:02 am)
[email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 pm
ECD Hollis

Beware, we have recently had an influx of extremely crazy Maoists. They Do hate Americans. They spell it AmeriKKKan though.

Marxists don't hate the American working class. Just the bourgeoisie and the bourgeois state that protects it and its imperialist interest through the world. Remember, your country has hundreds of military bases in the rest of the world. We dont like that fact really.

Oh and an American Empire is really a fact.
Maosits, Marxists, it's all the same in my eyes, and when I see that crap it pisses me off. [/b]
you claim to mean no offence and yet you make comments as silly stupid and weird as that..

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 25, 2007 03:46 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 25, 2007 03:46 pm)
Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.



bootleg [email protected] 23, 2007 04:11 am
I did, and a very indeapth study will show that the "values" and "ideals" you may be reffering to are sick AND a very indepth study can also show you that the poor people of the United States were FORCED into these values which is why they're blind.

Try reading a book called the Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_...e_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_United_States)

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-Unit...t/dp/0060528370 (http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-1492-Present/dp/0060528370)

HELL, even read the WHOLE BOOK FOR FREE here:

http://historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

It's a good read.

Well, to be honest I am not going to keep reading these posts that came after mine, because they are all insulting me. Seriously people in this thread have wished me to die, if this is how the left acts, than I want no part of it. Again my opinion of the left has not changed, and you can thank the hateful responses in this thread that I got. [/b]
I wasn't insulting you as you see. I was just telling you that I read about the United States and then I reffered you to read a short but excellent book about the history of the U.S. I gave a link to where you can read it for free. If others have insulted you, ignore that and go after our intellectual arguments.

If you really want to battle us, read that free link I gave you and dispute that. By ignoring us, you only give us victory. I know it'a alot of work but if you where ready to start to debate us, you have to be ready to work to defeat us in debate. If your U.S. history is full of "honor and glory, etc", then you'll be able to read a book like "the Peoples History of the United States" and you'll be able to still tell me how the U.S. history is "great" as you state.

[RGacky3]

I depends what you mean by America, I dont' have America any more than I would have hated the Roman Empire had I lived in those times.

Are you talking about the people?
If so then no, I doubt anyone (other than crazy Maoists :P) will say they hate the American people

Are you talking about the ideals the country was supposedly founded on?
No equality and freedom are things very close to a Socialists heart, now if those ideals were really the driving force, or if they were just nice words to gain support for their revolution is something else, and if they ever really followed those ideals is a compleatly different matter, ie. all man is created equal (did that mean indians, blacks, an non property owners as well), no, obviously the American government payed nothing but lip service to those ideals.

The American Government?
Yes, but not really much more than any other government, the fact that the American government happens to be on top and act imperialistically (As every power on top has in history) earns it a little bit more hate, but not specifically.

The American economic system?
Yes.



I don't hate Americans, I don't even hate Capitalists, I hate the system, does Americans hating the Soviet system mean they hate Russians? Or even Russia? There we go.

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 25, 2007 03:46 pm
Well, to be honest I am not going to keep reading these posts that came after mine, because they are all insulting me. Seriously people in this thread have wished me to die, if this is how the left acts, than I want no part of it. Again my opinion of the left has not changed, and you can thank the hateful responses in this thread that I got.
You can't talk about "the left" as if it is some sort of cohesive organization.

The people in this thread who have been rude to you are generally rude to other leftists that are not of their own particular flavor.

I am anti-american though. I am also anti-british, anti-canadian, anti-israeli, anti-australian, anti-french and against any nation or country that is not socialist or struggling against imperialist oppression.

Patriotism is childish and requires the sort of mindset that would have you marching into Poland for no reason other than your country asked you of it.

[bezdomni]

If so then no, I doubt anyone (other than crazy Maoists ) will say they hate the American people

Stop talking shit about Maoists. It makes you look stupid.

The vast majority of us are not foaming at the mouth MIMites, and I'd appreciate it if the rest of this board would recognize that.

[RGacky3]

I know I appologise.





I bet you thats a first on Revleft :P.

[bezdomni]

:)

Revleft is a very hostile environment sometimes. I feel like that aspect is not so evident in real life activism (ie, people who disagree with you yet are on the left are nicer).

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by SovietPants+July 25, 2007 10:43 pm--> (SovietPants @ July 25, 2007 10:43 pm)
ECD [email protected] 25, 2007 03:46 pm
Well, to be honest I am not going to keep reading these posts that came after mine, because they are all insulting me. Seriously people in this thread have wished me to die, if this is how the left acts, than I want no part of it. Again my opinion of the left has not changed, and you can thank the hateful responses in this thread that I got.
You can't talk about "the left" as if it is some sort of cohesive organization.

The people in this thread who have been rude to you are generally rude to other leftists that are not of their own particular flavor.

I am anti-american though. I am also anti-british, anti-canadian, anti-israeli, anti-australian, anti-french and against any nation or country that is not socialist or struggling against imperialist oppression.

Patriotism is childish and requires the sort of mindset that would have you marching into Poland for no reason other than your country asked you of it. [/b]
Patriotism is not childish. Period.

[Dean]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Fuck you and fuck your country, child.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 30, 2007 01:48 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 30, 2007 01:48 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 10:43 pm

ECD [email protected] 25, 2007 03:46 pm
Well, to be honest I am not going to keep reading these posts that came after mine, because they are all insulting me. Seriously people in this thread have wished me to die, if this is how the left acts, than I want no part of it. Again my opinion of the left has not changed, and you can thank the hateful responses in this thread that I got.
You can't talk about "the left" as if it is some sort of cohesive organization.

The people in this thread who have been rude to you are generally rude to other leftists that are not of their own particular flavor.

I am anti-american though. I am also anti-british, anti-canadian, anti-israeli, anti-australian, anti-french and against any nation or country that is not socialist or struggling against imperialist oppression.

Patriotism is childish and requires the sort of mindset that would have you marching into Poland for no reason other than your country asked you of it.
Patriotism is not childish. Period. [/b]
Of course its childish. You just accept it without questioning it. When I was a teenager I was quite patriotic, but as I've grown up I've realised that nationality means nothing to most people. Obviously, a lot of people are patriotic as adults, but most if not all of these people have not questioned what they accept.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Patriotism is not childish becuase.............????????????????? Please if you make a statement, argue it properly!!!!!!!!

Also you've ignored my other two posts which are not insulting to any degree:


I did, and a very indeapth study will show that the "values" and "ideals" you may be reffering to are sick AND a very indepth study can also show you that the poor people of the United States were FORCED into these values which is why they're blind.

Try reading a book called the Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_...e_United_States

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-Unit...t/dp/0060528370

HELL, even read the WHOLE BOOK FOR FREE here:

http://historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

It's a good read.

And


I wasn't insulting you as you see. I was just telling you that I read about the United States and then I reffered you to read a short but excellent book about the history of the U.S. I gave a link to where you can read it for free. If others have insulted you, ignore that and go after our intellectual arguments.

If you really want to battle us, read that free link I gave you and dispute that. By ignoring us, you only give us victory. I know it'a alot of work but if you where ready to start to debate us, you have to be ready to work to defeat us in debate. If your U.S. history is full of "honor and glory, etc", then you'll be able to read a book like "the Peoples History of the United States" and you'll be able to still tell me how the U.S. history is "great" as you state.

[CornetJoyce]

What was childish about the Great Patriotic War?

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Dean+July 30, 2007 02:15 pm--> (Dean @ July 30, 2007 02:15 pm)
ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Fuck you and fuck your country, child. [/b]
Typical response.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by bootleg42+July 30, 2007 07:46 pm--> (bootleg42 @ July 30, 2007 07:46 pm)
ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Patriotism is not childish becuase.............????????????????? Please if you make a statement, argue it properly!!!!!!!!

Also you've ignored my other two posts which are not insulting to any degree:


I did, and a very indeapth study will show that the "values" and "ideals" you may be reffering to are sick AND a very indepth study can also show you that the poor people of the United States were FORCED into these values which is why they're blind.

Try reading a book called the Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_...e_United_States

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-Unit...t/dp/0060528370

HELL, even read the WHOLE BOOK FOR FREE here:

http://historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

It's a good read.

And


I wasn't insulting you as you see. I was just telling you that I read about the United States and then I reffered you to read a short but excellent book about the history of the U.S. I gave a link to where you can read it for free. If others have insulted you, ignore that and go after our intellectual arguments.

If you really want to battle us, read that free link I gave you and dispute that. By ignoring us, you only give us victory. I know it'a alot of work but if you where ready to start to debate us, you have to be ready to work to defeat us in debate. If your U.S. history is full of "honor and glory, etc", then you'll be able to read a book like "the Peoples History of the United States" and you'll be able to still tell me how the U.S. history is "great" as you state. [/b]
I haven't ignored your posts, but there is no question in your posts. How do you want me to respond?

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by bootleg42+July 30, 2007 07:46 pm--> (bootleg42 @ July 30, 2007 07:46 pm)
ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Patriotism is not childish becuase.............????????????????? Please if you make a statement, argue it properly!!!!!!!!

Also you've ignored my other two posts which are not insulting to any degree:


I did, and a very indeapth study will show that the "values" and "ideals" you may be reffering to are sick AND a very indepth study can also show you that the poor people of the United States were FORCED into these values which is why they're blind.

Try reading a book called the Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_...e_United_States

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-Unit...t/dp/0060528370

HELL, even read the WHOLE BOOK FOR FREE here:

http://historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

It's a good read.

And


I wasn't insulting you as you see. I was just telling you that I read about the United States and then I reffered you to read a short but excellent book about the history of the U.S. I gave a link to where you can read it for free. If others have insulted you, ignore that and go after our intellectual arguments.

If you really want to battle us, read that free link I gave you and dispute that. By ignoring us, you only give us victory. I know it'a alot of work but if you where ready to start to debate us, you have to be ready to work to defeat us in debate. If your U.S. history is full of "honor and glory, etc", then you'll be able to read a book like "the Peoples History of the United States" and you'll be able to still tell me how the U.S. history is "great" as you state. [/b]
^^^ ECD hollis, please respond^^^^ You respond to those who insult you but you ignore those who wish to debate you!!!!!

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by bootleg42+July 30, 2007 08:40 pm--> (bootleg42 @ July 30, 2007 08:40 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 07:46 pm

ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Patriotism is not childish becuase.............????????????????? Please if you make a statement, argue it properly!!!!!!!!

Also you've ignored my other two posts which are not insulting to any degree:


I did, and a very indeapth study will show that the "values" and "ideals" you may be reffering to are sick AND a very indepth study can also show you that the poor people of the United States were FORCED into these values which is why they're blind.

Try reading a book called the Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_...e_United_States

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-Unit...t/dp/0060528370

HELL, even read the WHOLE BOOK FOR FREE here:

http://historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

It's a good read.

And


I wasn't insulting you as you see. I was just telling you that I read about the United States and then I reffered you to read a short but excellent book about the history of the U.S. I gave a link to where you can read it for free. If others have insulted you, ignore that and go after our intellectual arguments.

If you really want to battle us, read that free link I gave you and dispute that. By ignoring us, you only give us victory. I know it'a alot of work but if you where ready to start to debate us, you have to be ready to work to defeat us in debate. If your U.S. history is full of "honor and glory, etc", then you'll be able to read a book like "the Peoples History of the United States" and you'll be able to still tell me how the U.S. history is "great" as you state.
^^^ ECD hollis, please respond^^^^ You respond to those who insult you but you ignore those who wish to debate you!!!!! [/b]
I'll say this for the second time.

I haven't ignored your posts, but there is no question in your posts. How do you want me to respond?

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 30, 2007 08:42 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 30, 2007 08:42 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 08:40 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 07:46 pm

ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Patriotism is not childish becuase.............????????????????? Please if you make a statement, argue it properly!!!!!!!!

Also you've ignored my other two posts which are not insulting to any degree:


I did, and a very indeapth study will show that the "values" and "ideals" you may be reffering to are sick AND a very indepth study can also show you that the poor people of the United States were FORCED into these values which is why they're blind.

Try reading a book called the Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_...e_United_States

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-Unit...t/dp/0060528370

HELL, even read the WHOLE BOOK FOR FREE here:

http://historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

It's a good read.

And


I wasn't insulting you as you see. I was just telling you that I read about the United States and then I reffered you to read a short but excellent book about the history of the U.S. I gave a link to where you can read it for free. If others have insulted you, ignore that and go after our intellectual arguments.

If you really want to battle us, read that free link I gave you and dispute that. By ignoring us, you only give us victory. I know it'a alot of work but if you where ready to start to debate us, you have to be ready to work to defeat us in debate. If your U.S. history is full of "honor and glory, etc", then you'll be able to read a book like "the Peoples History of the United States" and you'll be able to still tell me how the U.S. history is "great" as you state.
^^^ ECD hollis, please respond^^^^ You respond to those who insult you but you ignore those who wish to debate you!!!!!
I'll say this for the second time.

I haven't ignored your posts, but there is no question in your posts. How do you want me to respond? [/b]
Ok, I'll make it easier:

1) Using U.S. history as your examples, what are these U.S. "ideals" you spoke of???

2) You said patriotism was not childish but you didn't say why. If you make a statement, it's academic to also juxtapose that statement with an argument. Please explain why patriotism is not childish.

[RGacky3]

Fuck you and fuck your country, child.

Great, wonderful, your a genius, you should write a book man.


What was childish about the Great Patriotic War?

I would'nt call it childish, because masses of people being killed for the benefit of elites is not childish, its evil, Patriotism is a blind attitude.

[amazed]

This website makes me laugh. Do you think if you were living in an actual communist country you would be able to sit around and even discuss these things, on the web or otherwise?

This website reminds me of an article I read once in Rolling Stone where Tom Morello from Rage stated that he was a communist. When I went to throw their CD's away, I noticed that their record label was Sony, which I believe is the biggest corporation in the world.

Anyway, why don't you leftists stop wasting your energy and devote it to something, anything that might be useful to someone. Communism isn't going anywhere, especially after the U.S. blows the shit out of China someday soon.

[Faux Real]

This website makes me laugh. Do you think if you were living in an actual communist country you would be able to sit around and even discuss these things, on the web or otherwise?
"Communist country" is an oxymoron. To be expected coming from a moron nonetheless.


This website reminds me of an article I read once in Rolling Stone where Tom Morello from Rage stated that he was a communist. When I went to throw their CD's away, I noticed that their record label was Sony, which I believe is the biggest corporation in the world.
Their band has to get their album out somehow. Cry more.


Anyway, why don't you leftists stop wasting your energy and devote it to something, anything that might be useful to someone. Communism isn't going anywhere, especially after the U.S. blows the shit out of China someday soon.
The U.S has been out-capitalized by China, it's major trading partner. They are trillions into debt with China, and they wouldn't dare nuke it.

China has abandoned socialist thought ever since the 70's.

Please learn to read. Fail.

[mikelepore]

Patriotism is one of the superstitions about the random noise in the circumstances of a person's birth. A person is born at some set of coordinates in space and time which has no intrinsic meaning. If you allow your life to be ruled by the time coordinate of your birth, that's called astrology. If you allow your life to be ruled by spatial coordinates of your birth, that's called patriotism.

[Labor Shall Rule]

To Amazed

As rev0lt made clear, you obviously do not have the faintest clue to what communism even is; "Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriations. In bourgeois society, living labour is but a means to increase accumulated labour. In communist society, accumulated labour is but a means to widen, to enrich, to promote the existence of the labourer." Marx wrote this in The Communist Manifesto, which described what he was aiming for. In The German Ideology, Marx wrote that "In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic." As such, I don't think that a 'communist' sphere would restrict anyone from posting on the internet. I don't expect you to read any of those quotes though, considering that you fail.

If you think bureaucratic management over the means of production is 'communism', then I think you are gravely mistaken.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 05:01 am
This website makes me laugh. Do you think if you were living in an actual communist country you would be able to sit around and even discuss these things, on the web or otherwise?

This website reminds me of an article I read once in Rolling Stone where Tom Morello from Rage stated that he was a communist. When I went to throw their CD's away, I noticed that their record label was Sony, which I believe is the biggest corporation in the world.

Anyway, why don't you leftists stop wasting your energy and devote it to something, anything that might be useful to someone. Communism isn't going anywhere, especially after the U.S. blows the shit out of China someday soon.
The first paragraph of your post instanstly means you lose the argument, because it sounds like you are just reeling off the usual shit about communism.

You may not have noticed, but we live in a capitalist society, so RATM sometimes have to swin in crap to get their message out.

Communism isn't going anywhere? What does that mean? How does an idea, a broad spectrum of progressive ideaologies, "go" anywhere?

You think the US will blow the shit out of China? Let me tell you a few things about China. One, you really need to stop watching Fox News for your information regarding China. Two, "blow the shit" out of it? Last time I checked, China had a massive army and nuclear weapons, so I dont think America will be bullying them around any time soon.

And, no offence, but you had RATM CDs? Surely you must have had some idea of their politics? :lol:

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 02:50 am

Fuck you and fuck your country, child.

Great, wonderful, your a genius, you should write a book man.
Can I not be sarcastic?

If we are to debate intelligence, I might point out your improper use of the the word "your." In that context I think you're looking for the contraction "you're."

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 04:01 am
This website reminds me of an article I read once in Rolling Stone where Tom Morello from Rage stated that he was a communist. When I went to throw their CD's away, I noticed that their record label was Sony, which I believe is the biggest corporation in the world.
Wow, you're a piece of shit. In that same article, Tom Morello is shown wearing a "Unite!" shirt, the labor union my dad works for. You don't even know the shit people go through to get basic healthcare and decent wages and conditions, and certainly not how much the union's work means to the people in it... people have literally cried and thanked God for work that my father, who works ~10 hour days and spends the entire week away from home visiting factories, negotiating, dealing with grievances, etc., was responsible for.

Thanks a lot for ignoring what was basically the central point of the article, worker's struggle for basic rights, and having a knee-jerk reaction to a label. Why don't you read into the facts referenced in such articles instead of wasting CDs that can be recycled - not tossed in a landfill - even if you don't want others to hear them?

As for the label, Chumbawamba pointed out that all relevant labels in a capitalist economy are capitalistic in nature, so if you want your voice to be widely heard you have to utilize them. I won't defend RATM because I don't know much about their acts (besides the support of labor that I pointed out above) but at least they (were) doing something to help others rather than fulfilling the capitalist end: avarice and capital gain.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 08:59 pm
Ok, I'll make it easier:

1) Using U.S. history as your examples, what are these U.S. "ideals" you spoke of???

2) You said patriotism was not childish but you didn't say why. If you make a statement, it's academic to also juxtapose that statement with an argument. Please explain why patriotism is not childish.
ECD Hollis, I await your answer, just don't want you to forget.

[RGacky3]

Originally posted by Dean+August 01, 2007 02:17 am--> (Dean @ August 01, 2007 02:17 am)
[email protected] 31, 2007 02:50 am

Fuck you and fuck your country, child.

Great, wonderful, your a genius, you should write a book man.
Can I not be sarcastic?

If we are to debate intelligence, I might point out your improper use of the the word "your." In that context I think you're looking for the contraction "you're." [/b]
Sarcastic??? Do you know waht Sarcasm is? That was'nt sarcasm that was just plain and simply being rude and vulgar.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 05:01 am
This website makes me laugh. Do you think if you were living in an actual communist country you would be able to sit around and even discuss these things, on the web or otherwise?

This website reminds me of an article I read once in Rolling Stone where Tom Morello from Rage stated that he was a communist. When I went to throw their CD's away, I noticed that their record label was Sony, which I believe is the biggest corporation in the world.

Anyway, why don't you leftists stop wasting your energy and devote it to something, anything that might be useful to someone. Communism isn't going anywhere, especially after the U.S. blows the shit out of China someday soon.
Goddamned, take some advice from Napoleon and shut up! (only open your month when you're sure you are the most intelligent person in the room.)

[cormacobear]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 09:25 am
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.
All historians agree the second world war was already in the allies favour when the US joined. And if US corperations like Ford and IBM, and US millionaires like the Bush family and such had not been helping the NAZI's the war would have been won far quicker with fewer human losses.

If you were taght or had even tried to look up an accurate history I would love to hear an attempt the US made to try and prevent the worlds greatest attrocities. Because the worlds other 16 billion people see the US making an attempt to make up for their collaberation.

I'm a couple courses from my western history degree. I have studied America and am confident I know US history better than you. I've studied the congressional investigations the FBI and CIA documents I've read the Canadian and British and etc. reports on nearly every international incident since 1890.

If you were educated by any other system you'd have a clue but you never read the Transcripts from the Congressional investigations or the declassified documents, Did You?

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 30, 2007 12:48 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 30, 2007 12:48 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 10:43 pm

ECD [email protected] 25, 2007 03:46 pm
Well, to be honest I am not going to keep reading these posts that came after mine, because they are all insulting me. Seriously people in this thread have wished me to die, if this is how the left acts, than I want no part of it. Again my opinion of the left has not changed, and you can thank the hateful responses in this thread that I got.
You can't talk about "the left" as if it is some sort of cohesive organization.

The people in this thread who have been rude to you are generally rude to other leftists that are not of their own particular flavor.

I am anti-american though. I am also anti-british, anti-canadian, anti-israeli, anti-australian, anti-french and against any nation or country that is not socialist or struggling against imperialist oppression.

Patriotism is childish and requires the sort of mindset that would have you marching into Poland for no reason other than your country asked you of it.
Patriotism is not childish. Period. [/b]
Oh no, I've been refuted!

Are you going to actually argue, or are you going to evade real debate?

Two words that aren't said nearly often enough - "Prove it".

Isn't patriotism the force that sent the Nazis all over Europe? Weren't patriots the people who welcomed the unjust invasions of Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq and celebrated the deaths of innocent people who simply wanted to control their own lives and their own land?

Why should ex-slaves be proud to be americans? Why should ex-slave owners be proud to be americans?

The simple fact is that the U.S. political economy is based on the systematic exploitation and subjugation of oppressed colonies in the third world and even within its own borders (black working class and undocumented workers from latin america and elsewhere).

Patriotism requires forcing your mind shut.

[Andrey Bolkonsky]

I've read "A People's History of the United States" by Mr. Zinn (required reading in A.P. History!), and I thought it was a bit too negative. There are many sad and horrible things that have happened in this country, but I still believe that the values and ideals we cherish will someday be realised.

And about the whole second World War business; yes, a lot of our actions were politically motivated. But one of the main reasons for not entering the war until Pearl Harbor was because a lot of people didn't really want to us to fight Germany (lots of German immigrants, pro-Isolationists, etc.). I think President Roosevelt did as much as he could to support the United Kingdom with Lend-Lease (and later the Soviet Union).

The Russian contribution to victory isn't downplayed in this country; it's true that perhaps our own contributions were over-estimated, but we did fight the war against Japan largely by ourselves (along with the Phillipines and Kuomintang China). The Soviet Union only entered the war against Japan to take over Manchuria before the war ended, and because they had promised Roosevelt to do so. I think that the U.S. was politically motivated in many of our policies (not doing enough to stop the concentration camps, despite having some knowledge), but the Soviet Union did much of the same.

And while I would agree that "patriotism" is a highly over-rated virtue, I think that enlisting in the Armed forces in the hopes to make a difference, and "liberate" other countries can be considered commendable, despite being misguided.

As for our government's policies, yes, it makes me ashamed at times to be an American. We let Uzbekistan gun down pro-Democracy protesters, ignored the military coup business in Nepal, declined to use force in Sudan like we did with Iraq (where it might've actually done some good), and don't support peace-keeping. I do still feel there's some chance we can redeem ourselves in the next few decades, and I hope there are some other folks out there who feel the same.

(I'll post on the Capitalist/Commie stuff in the U.S. in a bit, but I think that's a long enough first post).

:)

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 12:36 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 12:36 pm)
Glory to [email protected] 20, 2007 04:29 pm
The U$ is the enemy of the world. It must be destroyed. Anyone who can't see that has no right to call herself or himself a "leftist."

Amerikkkans are 99+% pro-imperialist. They have been bribed into complacency by their own big bourgeoisie. Amerikkkans, even their lumpenproletariat, are petty bourgeois.

Amerikkkans, Britons, Kanadians, and so on are part of the GLOBAL bourgeoisie. Some rude person recently accused me of being "anti-worker" without even bothering to formulate his argument, but actually I am extremely pro-worker. The key issue here is that Amerikkkan "workers" are part of the global bourgeoisie and the global ruling class. What is "anti-worker" about advocating that the proletariat (most Third World workers) overthrow the bourgeoisie (not only the comprador bourgeoisie in the Third World but also the imperialist bourgeoisie that makes up almost the entire population of the First World)? "Anti-worker" is supporting more and more decadent goodies (cars, oil, clothes, appliances, and on and on) for the First World "workers" when these things are paid for with the sweat and blood of the Third World proletariat.

The U$ actually supported Nazi Germany well into the 1940s, hoping that it would invade the glorious Soviet Union (which it did) and overthrow the socialist state (which it didn't). The U$ and other big imperialist powers thought that they had cut a deal for "peace in our time" with fascism. Only when Germany turned too aggressive and began to threaten the interests of the other imperialist countries in its campaign for imperial conquest did the U$ even enter the war. And then it did hardly anything. Sakai says in his great book "Settlers": "As late as April 1943, Soviet forces were fighting 185 Nazi divisions while the U.S. and British Empires were together fighting 6." The U$ and Britain only rushed in during the last six months of the war to take the credit for the Soviet victory and grab control over Western Europe. It was the glorious Soviet Union that saved the world from fascism, no thanks to Britain or the U$.

The presence of ignorant imperialist scum on this board is considered "really quite refreshing," while the few scientific communists who have passed through are banned in a cowardly way by the craven crypto-fascist administration. That speaks volumes about the "revolutionary left" character of this site. I'm leaving.
What the hell? :mellow:


This is the kind of crap I am talking about. [/b]
Isn't that like Mao-speak or something?

You'll note that most Leftists don't say such ignorant things.

He was banned, showing that Leftists don't tolerate that shit either.

Most Leftists are not anti-american, though they are anti-american bourgeoise and all that.

[graffic]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!!
Youre on a revolutionary forum mate, not a patriots right wing members club

[CornetJoyce]

Originally posted by Andrey [email protected] 04, 2007 05:00 pm
I've read "A People's History of the United States" by Mr. Zinn (required reading in A.P. History!), and I thought it was a bit too negative. There are many sad and horrible things that have happened in this country, but I still believe that the values and ideals we cherish will someday be realised.

And about the whole second World War business; yes, a lot of our actions were politically motivated. But one of the main reasons for not entering the war until Pearl Harbor was because a lot of people didn't really want to us to fight Germany (lots of German immigrants, pro-Isolationists, etc.). I think President Roosevelt did as much as he could to support the United Kingdom with Lend-Lease (and later the Soviet Union).

The Russian contribution to victory isn't downplayed in this country; it's true that perhaps our own contributions were over-estimated, but we did fight the war against Japan largely by ourselves (along with the Phillipines and Kuomintang China). The Soviet Union only entered the war against Japan to take over Manchuria before the war ended, and because they had promised Roosevelt to do so. I think that the U.S. was politically motivated in many of our policies (not doing enough to stop the concentration camps, despite having some knowledge), but the Soviet Union did much of the same.

And while I would agree that "patriotism" is a highly over-rated virtue, I think that enlisting in the Armed forces in the hopes to make a difference, and "liberate" other countries can be considered commendable, despite being misguided.

As for our government's policies, yes, it makes me ashamed at times to be an American. We let Uzbekistan gun down pro-Democracy protesters, ignored the military coup business in Nepal, declined to use force in Sudan like we did with Iraq (where it might've actually done some good), and don't support peace-keeping. I do still feel there's some chance we can redeem ourselves in the next few decades, and I hope there are some other folks out there who feel the same.


Zinn's book is composed like a ransom note, scraps from historians pasted together, factoids juxtaposed in a suggestive way. He inflates blowup dolls of "conventional opinion" and heroically punctures them. He's a great muckraker and is a godsend for rebellious adolescents.

But still, the empire is pretty much as he says it is, a cancerous growth. It can't be "redeemed." It can only be destroyed, Root and Branch.

[The Feral Underclass]

America is truely worse than the sum of it's most disgusting parts.

[RGacky3]

Howard Zinn admits his book is Biased toward the oppressed, and focuses on the Negative, you know why? Because 99.9% of all the other books completely ignore it, and it is a HUGE part of American history and thus should not be ignored.

[CornetJoyce]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 12:53 am
Howard Zinn admits his book is Biased toward the oppressed, and focuses on the Negative, you know why? Because 99.9% of all the other books completely ignore it, and it is a HUGE part of American history and thus should not be ignored.
Yes, he inflates that blowup doll and punctures it. Actually, he quotes lots of books that he obviously approves of, so it's disingenuous to say that his authors ignored the seamy side. It's secondary scholarship, after all. There have been many similar efforts including a comic book history of america, but his is undoubtedly the best of the genre.

[bootleg42]

I've read "A People's History of the United States" by Mr. Zinn (required reading in A.P. History!), and I thought it was a bit too negative.

The best way to read Howard Zinn's book is to first read a regular U.S. high school or college textbook.

THEN RIGHT AFTER, read Zinn's book. The point of the book is to show the things that the original "normal" textbooks leave out or flat out ignore.

ALSO it shows that when children are taught U.S. history, they are taught U.S. history from the point of view of the rich or upper class culutre of the U.S. and not of the actual poor people. The first chapter clearly demonstrates this when he attempts to make us think of the native americans point of view of the arrival of colombus. Hell, Zinn even used Columbus' own words to describe it:

"They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned... . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane... . They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want." (1)


There are many sad and horrible things that have happened in this country, but I still believe that the values and ideals we cherish will someday be realised.

You're the second person to say the U.S. has ideals and values that you cherish BUT you don't tell me what those ideals are.

For example us leftists would say that the ideals we cherish are direct power, education, health and homes for working people everywhere.


And while I would agree that "patriotism" is a highly over-rated virtue, I think that enlisting in the Armed forces in the hopes to make a difference, and "liberate" other countries can be considered commendable, despite being misguided.

Since they're misguided, I don't consider it commendable. I consider it more unfortunate.


As for our government's policies, yes, it makes me ashamed at times to be an American. We let Uzbekistan gun down pro-Democracy protesters, ignored the military coup business in Nepal, declined to use force in Sudan like we did with Iraq (where it might've actually done some good), and don't support peace-keeping. I do still feel there's some chance we can redeem ourselves in the next few decades, and I hope there are some other folks out there who feel the same.

Well the problem there is capitalism itself. Just know that all those things you listed, that you yourself say that it makes you ashamed, are ALL LEGAL in capitalism. Capitalism is the problem. You must fix the problem from it's ROOT or else you never fix the problem itself. This is the lesson we wish to teach everyone.


(I'll post on the Capitalist/Commie stuff in the U.S. in a bit, but I think that's a long enough first post).

Since you're not trolling and since it seems like you want to actually discuss things, it's good to have ya.

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 04:57 am
Sarcastic??? Do you know waht Sarcasm is? That was'nt sarcasm that was just plain and simply being rude and vulgar.
-Called him a child (and thus his patriotism)
-Used antithesis to his patriotism

Linguistics must not be your strong suit.

[Andrey Bolkonsky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 02:12 am

I've read "A People's History of the United States" by Mr. Zinn (required reading in A.P. History!), and I thought it was a bit too negative.

The best way to read Howard Zinn's book is to first read a regular U.S. high school or college textbook.

THEN RIGHT AFTER, read Zinn's book. The point of the book is to show the things that the original "normal" textbooks leave out or flat out ignore.

ALSO it shows that when children are taught U.S. history, they are taught U.S. history from the point of view of the rich or upper class culutre of the U.S. and not of the actual poor people. The first chapter clearly demonstrates this when he attempts to make us think of the native americans point of view of the arrival of colombus. Hell, Zinn even used Columbus' own words to describe it:

"They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned... . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane... . They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want." (1)


There are many sad and horrible things that have happened in this country, but I still believe that the values and ideals we cherish will someday be realised.

You're the second person to say the U.S. has ideals and values that you cherish BUT you don't tell me what those ideals are.

For example us leftists would say that the ideals we cherish are direct power, education, health and homes for working people everywhere.


And while I would agree that "patriotism" is a highly over-rated virtue, I think that enlisting in the Armed forces in the hopes to make a difference, and "liberate" other countries can be considered commendable, despite being misguided.

Since they're misguided, I don't consider it commendable. I consider it more unfortunate.


As for our government's policies, yes, it makes me ashamed at times to be an American. We let Uzbekistan gun down pro-Democracy protesters, ignored the military coup business in Nepal, declined to use force in Sudan like we did with Iraq (where it might've actually done some good), and don't support peace-keeping. I do still feel there's some chance we can redeem ourselves in the next few decades, and I hope there are some other folks out there who feel the same.

Well the problem there is capitalism itself. Just know that all those things you listed, that you yourself say that it makes you ashamed, are ALL LEGAL in capitalism. Capitalism is the problem. You must fix the problem from it's ROOT or else you never fix the problem itself. This is the lesson we wish to teach everyone.


(I'll post on the Capitalist/Commie stuff in the U.S. in a bit, but I think that's a long enough first post).

Since you're not trolling and since it seems like you want to actually discuss things, it's good to have ya.
That's true. And that's the way our teacher had us read the assigned textbook: two or three chapters of the textbook, and then the equivalent from Zinn.

The poor conditions of workers, corruption in government, all that sort of thing is good to know for a student, and, at the very least, Zinn is another viewpoint to take in.

As for American values, I think Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, the idea that everyone is created equal, those are all pretty good ideas. Those aren't really "American" values, of course. I tend to like most people I've met from all over the world, so maybe they're more like universal values that just happened to get written down and put into law here first.

Now, about capitalism... I don't feel the United States of America is entirely capitalist. And here's why:

I dropped out of school my senior year of High School. In a capitalist society, I'm a failure. My opportunity is gone, wasted, whatever. But the government tries to keep me from falling through the cracks, with state-sponsored schools, G.E.D. programs (which are free!), adult education, all sorts of stuff. There's all kinds of socialist programs that Americans love (how about Social Security, MediCare?).

I think you can't get rid of capitalism entirely because it's the best system right now. For the world? Nah, because someone has to be poor to support the wealthy, in any size category, be it the world, or just a country (which is why I assume everyone here hates it). The government here is too inept to handle occupying two small nations; imagine managing even more programs with King George in charge.

Start small, implement programs like universal healthcare, things that most people will like. I don't think that (with the corruption in Washington) you can just get rid of capitalism entirely though, because many Americans like being the biggest and the best.

And do you mean a capitalist economic system or idealogy? I agree that the current mentality our government has is awful and needs to go (we could do so much good in the world but we just... don't).

Sorry if that wasn't coherent; I'll try to clarify anything if it isn't making sense. Thanks for the welcome. :)

[bootleg42]

That's true. And that's the way our teacher had us read the assigned textbook: two or three chapters of the textbook, and then the equivalent from Zinn.

The poor conditions of workers, corruption in government, all that sort of thing is good to know for a student, and, at the very least, Zinn is another viewpoint to take in.


Well now time to ask a question here......which side do you believe???? And why??


As for American values, I think Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, the idea that everyone is created equal, those are all pretty good ideas. Those aren't really "American" values, of course. I tend to like most people I've met from all over the world, so maybe they're more like universal values that just happened to get written down and put into law here first.

I don't see those values in U.S. law.

Although freedom of speech may be techniqually a U.S. value and "law", it is not implemented as much as you'd think. I mean just ask yourself why the socialist movements in the country died in the 40's, 50's 60s, etc.... Also many leftists have been put in jail in this country (as recently as the 90's) for no apparent legit reason (just read about them here in the site).

As for freedom of religion...........IMO, yes here you can be any religion BUT sometimes I see that the freedom of religion practiced in the U.S. eventually leads to ethnocentric thinking by the general U.S. public (example: many conservative and even some liberals state that many things in the country should resemble Christian values only because this is, as they believe it to be, a judeo-christian nation).

And in the U.S., not everyone is created equal. That's no law. Come to my area (inner city NYC) and see the conditions where people are born THEN go not to far to long island and see the condititons where people are born into. HUGE inequality. Plus remember, when those words were written, those same people who wrote those words also owned slaves.


Now, about capitalism... I don't feel the United States of America is entirely capitalist. And here's why:

I dropped out of school my senior year of High School. In a capitalist society, I'm a failure. My opportunity is gone, wasted, whatever. But the government tries to keep me from falling through the cracks, with state-sponsored schools, G.E.D. programs (which are free!), adult education, all sorts of stuff. There's all kinds of socialist programs that Americans love (how about Social Security, MediCare?).

I think you can't get rid of capitalism entirely because it's the best system right now. For the world? Nah, because someone has to be poor to support the wealthy, in any size category, be it the world, or just a country (which is why I assume everyone here hates it). The government here is too inept to handle occupying two small nations; imagine managing even more programs with King George in charge.

Well yes, there are a few elements here that are copied from socialist ideals DEPENDING ONE WHERE YOU LIVE in the U.S. Thanks to section 8 here in NYC and thanks to the fact that there are public schools here, I was able to get to college which is were I am now. I got a scholorship so now I'm all good (of course if I lose that scholorship, I may be screwed but there is also financal aid).

But in my area, I am the only one out of all my friends and out of all my old classmates to go to college. Everyone I know now (being only 18-19) all now work as janitors and work in subways (the restuarant) and mcdonalds and they ALL have huge social problems that is caused by alienation (look up that term). We're all poor and of course with being poor comes dangerous environments (crime, drugs, etc). This is the reason capitalism is not good nor is it the "best system right now". One my friends is in debt because he can't afford health insurance while medicare and medicaid didn't pay for his lens and for a few other health problems there is. He'll be working just to pay that off while he stays in that small apatment with his moms and his siblings (a really small apartment).

Also the money for these few programs that "soften" capitalism came from somewhere??? Try the labor of the rest of the world (in particular the third world). If capitalism goes away, these problems go with it.

Now as for the reality that socialism can happen in the U.S.....I don't think it will happen in the U.S. Much of the population in the U.S. have become part of the Labor aristocracy (look up that term too) and the people will die for the rich before they die for themselves.

The third world countries will rise up and create socialism around the world, then unfortunally there probably will be a world war that will pin capital first world countries against socialist third world countries (simply because the U.S. will never allow countries to become socialist and they'll just go to war with all of them) and that'll be the big moment. I perfer it not come to this but it most likely will, at least in my opinion. Of course we perfer a peaceful solution to getting rid of capitalism but if it cannot be then so be it.


Start small, implement programs like universal healthcare, things that most people will like. I don't think that (with the corruption in Washington) you can just get rid of capitalism entirely though, because many Americans like being the biggest and the best.

That's trying to change the system from within. Read up on the works of Vladimar Lenin as he already explained the problem of doing this.


And do you mean a capitalist economic system or idealogy? I agree that the current mentality our government has is awful and needs to go (we could do so much good in the world but we just... don't).

Captialism is an economic system which creates social darwinistic idealogies (care for yourself only and everything that happens to you is your fault and yours alone, etc).

And you state that the current government has an awful mentality but a question......when did it ever have a good mentality??????


Sorry if that wasn't coherent; I'll try to clarify anything if it isn't making sense. Thanks for the welcome. :)

Well a good way to debate us is to make a statement and then to make a strong complete argument. At least you're trying unlike other capitalist people here who just either troll or they just make a statement and make no argument. Good to have you, hope you learn some things.

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by Dean+July 30, 2007 02:15 pm--> (Dean @ July 30, 2007 02:15 pm)
ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Fuck you and fuck your country, child. [/b]
Go read a book.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+November 13, 2007 12:27 am--> (ECD Hollis @ November 13, 2007 12:27 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 02:15 pm

ECD [email protected] 30, 2007 12:48 pm
Patriotism is not childish. Period.
Fuck you and fuck your country, child.
Go read a book. [/b]
perhaps you should practice what you preach.

[Cmde. Slavyanski]

Originally posted by ECD [email protected] 20, 2007 03:25 pm
Everyone here hates the US!!! It's really absurd. Now the US has made mistakes in its history but come on give me a break. The anti-US propoganda I read here is ridiculous. Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

All I ask is for people to truly study America and its ideals before writing it off as an "evil empire", which is an absurd statement in its self.

Think people, that's all I ask.


PS: This topic was not meant to be offensive, and I didn't intend on breaking any rules either.
" Half of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for the USSR."

There! I corrected your mistaken sentence! Well at least part of it.

You might not have noticed, but Germany did not impose the German language on any country it occupied. All territory they wanted for Germany was resettled(e.g. Warthegau) or planned to be(European Russia, Ukraine, Belarus) resettled by Germans.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I'm actually a moderate.

A moderate in comparison to what? The political spectrum put forward by the corporate media and the capitalist representatives? Or are you a social democrat?

I love America. Many aspects of this nation's culture I don't want to relinquish. But I am not a fan of the American state. If that makes me anti-American, so be it. I disagree.

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 10:48 am--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 10:48 am) I'm actually a moderate. [/b]
It's odd how you 'moderates' are outraged by anti-American speech when you are silent on some very anti-Iraqi murders.

Another thing is how you identify yourself as a 'moderate' considering how you identified your politics earlier:


ECD [email protected] 16, 2007 08:14 am
I am a conservative, and I was wondering why I can only post in here?
This was taken verbatim from OI: Unfair Restrictions. You can go directly to the post by clicking here (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=69939&view=findpost&p=1292348831).

[KC]

Go read a book.

It is you that should be reading a book. Specifically, Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities:

"Anderson defined a nation as "an imagined political community [that is] imagined as both inherently limited and sovereign".[1] An imagined community is different from an actual community because it is not (and cannot be) based on quotidian face-to-face interaction between its members. Instead, members hold in their minds a mental image of their affinity. As Anderson puts it, a nation "is imagined because the members of even the smallest nation will never know most of their fellow-members, meet them, or even hear of them, yet in the minds of each lives the image of their communion".[1]"
Wiki on the Imagined Community (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_communities)

Nationalism is a farce.