Converts

[Dimentio]

What do you do with ex-fascists who want to turn leftist?

[Led Zeppelin]

Erm, nothing?

[Dimentio]

I thought about how open or closed the left should be to ex-fascists.

[capitalistwhore]

So exactly how many ex-fascist converts are there? I mean, it isn't like there are so many that we can't take it case by case. How do you convert like that anyway?

Actually, does anyone have a really good conversion story?

[Dimentio]

I had crazy opinions in primary school, but they were not fascist, rather puritan.

I burned condoms at school and murdered a magazine with a bikini girl on the front, with the help of my mini-tractor.

Most other guys at school (I am from the countryside, or rather the Swedish equivalent to "Rocky Mountains") were dressing in hiphop clothes, listening to white power music as well as Offspring (interpreting Pretty Fly as a hiphop anthem). There were also lots of 25 year+ outside of the school, paying the female classmates with beer in return for sex.

I was comparably "normal" I guess.

[Dr Mindbender]

ive actually met one. A guy from Glasgow who used to go to NF marches and the like, then he saw the error of his ways and started going to SSP meetings. He was a great guy,I met him at marxism 2001 and whenever I bumped into him he'd buy me a beer.
Wasnt there a BNP defector who got beat up by his own 'comrades' which made him sick of their violent tendencies and so he acted as an ANL double agent to help film an undercover documentary a few years back?

[RevSouth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 09:02 pm
I burned condoms at school and murdered a magazine with a bikini girl on the front, with the help of my mini-tractor.
What is a mini-tractor?

Also "Pretty Fly" as a hip-hop anthem. :P

[SpikeyRed]

Are we talking like full on Fascist party members and skin's here? Or young teenagers seeing the error of their ways?

When I was 14-15, and I got into metal, a bloke I knew got me into the more neo-nazi-ish and white power\rascist elements of it, aswell as flirtations with Nazi imagery and rhetoric, anti-antisemitism etc. At the time, I knew the world was fucked, and I knew I wanted it fixed, just, these guys got too me before the left did, and, they proposed, what, was in my mind as a 14\15 year old, "Radical" change, so I went along with it for a while, as some sort of sick rebellion against the 'mainstream' of everything really. Luckily for me, when it came to really concrete stuff, I tended to sympathize with much more leftist views without even knowing it, and, then somehow, I managed to do this big turn around and switch to "Communism", do a whole lot of reading and make myself into an informed and usefull member of the left :lol:

I think that show's that not everyone who flirts with, sympathizes with or get's caught up in Fascist crap, deserves to be wholly written off forever. I certainly know alot of "right wing" teenagers who are, bassically, just pissed off at the world and use it as an outlet :(.

[RedKnight]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 05:02 am
Are we talking like full on Fascist party members and skin's here? Or young teenagers seeing the error of their ways?

When I was 14-15, and I got into metal, a bloke I knew got me into the more neo-nazi-ish and white power\rascist elements of it, aswell as flirtations with Nazi imagery and rhetoric, anti-antisemitism etc. At the time, I knew the world was fucked, and I knew I wanted it fixed, just, these guys got too me before the left did, and, they proposed, what, was in my mind as a 14\15 year old, "Radical" change, so I went along with it for a while, as some sort of sick rebellion against the 'mainstream' of everything really. Luckily for me, when it came to really concrete stuff, I tended to sympathize with much more leftist views without even knowing it, and, then somehow, I managed to do this big turn around and switch to "Communism", do a whole lot of reading and make myself into an informed and usefull member of the left :lol:

I think that show's that not everyone who flirts with, sympathizes with or get's caught up in Fascist crap, deserves to be wholly written off forever. I certainly know alot of "right wing" teenagers who are, bassically, just pissed off at the world and use it as an outlet :(.
Word. I used to read books by Pat Buchanan. But after reading Marx I decided that Communism made more sense.

[Dr Mindbender]

i disagree with spikey red. I think peoples politics do change, and if its possible to win people over from any persuasion, be it fascist or not then they deserve a second chance.

Its this attitude that puts us on a moral pedestal over the reactionaries.

[EwokUtopia]

Fascism is a disease that targets impressionable frustrated angst-ridden white male teenagers more than anyone else. Most who fall to the disease do not go around talking about it, but keep it deep within themselves, and I can guarentee you that for every one poster on Stormfront, there are 10 kids who are reading the online propaganda and falling sway to it, just not enough to become an actual part of it.

Not only should we welcome the kids who see what bullshit it is, we should make active efforts to get them out of it. Setting up websites debunking their fallacies is a good start. But the sites need to take it from the angle of these teenagers, they need to speak to angst ridden teens about what is really fucking up human society (capitalism) and tell them how fascism takes their frustration against the enemy they dont understand and pins it on racial or ethnic groups.

Alot of their frustration comes from the same place as ours does, but they are less educated (their usually 14 years old, going through the mind-numbing experiance of high school), so they can fall sway to people who blame the ills of capitalism or imperialism on the Jews, immigrants, et cetera.

What they need is education.

Im not talking about the much rarer case, the fully fledged violent skin, but the kids who have the potential to become one of these. We have to remember that they also have the potential to become a revolutionary at the same time, and we have to help them on their way.

[RedAnarchist]

Personally, I think that there are very few people who can't be "converted" to revolutionary socialism, and most of them are mega-rich and part of the ruling classes.

If someone with reactionary views seems to be interested in leftism, we should nurture that interest and ensure that they don't get entrenched deeper into the Right.

I think that the best people to target are the younger ones, who may just be starting to become political - if we can convince them as teenagers and young adults, more will join the Left.

[Fawkes]

Can people stop using "skin" or "skinhead" as a synonym for fascist? Anyway, I used to hold homophobic views in the past and I changed....

[fashbasher 5000]

I was homophobic in the phase that most young boys are, but as soon as I got some education about it I changed my mind. This is what needs to be done on a larger scale for many teenagers: education cures all ills.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 10:28 pm
Can people stop using "skin" or "skinhead" as a synonym for fascist? Anyway, I used to hold homophobic views in the past and I changed....
being a fascist isnt a pre-requisite for being a homophobe though...

[RHIZOMES]

A few years ago, I would say I would be about I visited Stormfront and nearly believed their propaganda about "We don't hate other races, we just want self-determination" but after a few days I realized they were neo-Nazi racist scum.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+August 03, 2007 08:14 am--> (Ulster Socialist @ August 03, 2007 08:14 am)
Fawkes[email protected] 02, 2007 10:28 pm
Can people stop using "skin" or "skinhead" as a synonym for fascist? Anyway, I used to hold homophobic views in the past and I changed....
being a fascist isnt a pre-requisite for being a homophobe though... [/b]
I never claimed I was a fascist, just had right-wing tendencies.

[Le People]

Question: I know homophobia is used to describe a cultural predjuice against homosexuals, but is there an actual medical condition similar to agorophobia or any of that? I was just wondering.

[The-Spark]

Has anyone seen that movie "American History X" where this facist, neo-nazi guy, kills a black man, and gets sent to jail, and realizes the error of his ways when he becomes friends with a black man in jail, then when hes out of jail he finds his lil brother up to the neo-nazi shit and wants to fix everything.

[RedCommieBear]

Originally posted by The-[email protected] 04, 2007 05:47 am
Has anyone seen that movie "American History X" where this facist, neo-nazi guy, kills a black man, and gets sent to jail, and realizes the error of his ways when he becomes friends with a black man in jail, then when hes out of jail he finds his lil brother up to the neo-nazi shit and wants to fix everything.

Yeah, it was really good movie. I like how it showed how Derek's father had planted the seeds of Derek's nazism.

American History X (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=50530)

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 03:21 pm
Yeah, it was really good movie. I like how it showed how Derek's father had planted the seeds of Derek's nazism.

American History X (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=50530)
It also shows how the nazi virus attaches itself to frustrated, confused young white males. Derek was inflicted with it when the older guy (forget his name) began propagandizing to him when his father died, in that weak point of his life.


Go to a Nazi site, and youll see how it is focusing on young confused white kids. Its language is speaking to a 16 year old male.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by The-[email protected] 04, 2007 12:47 am
Has anyone seen that movie "American History X" where this facist, neo-nazi guy, kills a black man, and gets sent to jail, and realizes the error of his ways when he becomes friends with a black man in jail, then when hes out of jail he finds his lil brother up to the neo-nazi shit and wants to fix everything.
Yeah, it was a good movie.

[Red October]

A friend of mine is an ex-fascist, though through education and experience he's come over to the left. If there's a case of an ex-fash or current one who expresses doubts or regrets about what they do/have done, it might be a good idea to see if we can bring them over to our side. But there is no simple solution that can be applied to everyone, it must be taken case by case.

[bluescouse]

I think Ricky Tomlinson was a pretty successful conversion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Tomlinson
He was even jailed with Des Warren.
http://www.shrewsburypicketscampaign.org.u...warren_home. htm (http://www.shrewsburypicketscampaign.org.uk/des_warren_home.htm)

[Red Flag Rising]

Fascism is a disease that targets impressionable frustrated angst-ridden white male teenagers more than anyone else.

It would be very dangerous to accept this definition for all fascists. Around where I live, there is a VERY STRONG Curtis Sliwa-style Guardian Angels fascist group that is not made up of frustrated teenagers. It is powerful enough to push the black and Mexican gangs out of a low-income neighborhood and has turned a formerly crime infested apartment complex into a haven for poor white families. This group is very powerful on the local campuses and most people see them as a good because they "get the job done" where the cops come up short.

[Red Flag Rising]

Ah, about ex-fascists: One of my father's colleagues was a German who fought in WWI, WWII and lived through the Weimar period and saw the rise of Hitler. Initially he was a socialist, then he joined the KDP before becoming a Nazi in 1931. After the war, he refused to join any left-wing organizations or parties but my father always considered him one of the most effictive left-wing professors on the entire campus.

He had much to say on the natures of both communism and nazism.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Fawkes+August 04, 2007 03:59 am--> (Fawkes @ August 04, 2007 03:59 am)
Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 03, 2007 08:14 am

[email protected] 02, 2007 10:28 pm
Can people stop using "skin" or "skinhead" as a synonym for fascist? Anyway, I used to hold homophobic views in the past and I changed....
being a fascist isnt a pre-requisite for being a homophobe though...
I never claimed I was a fascist, just had right-wing tendencies. [/b]
i thought that 'former fascists' was the subject of the thread.

If conservatives or other 'reactionary-but-not fash' types want to come to the red side then of course they should be welcomed. That said, i think anyone should, as long as they still dont hold racist views.

Back on topic, the perfect example is Ricky Tomlinson, who in the UK is a celebrity fash convert that went on to marxist trade-unionism.
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/001ewm/020_ewmp/md/PplRickyTomlinson1907.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Tomlinson

[runningmadbull]

I actually used to move about on the forums of the Stormfront after being converted by their jargon as a young white male full of angst. Then I realized (like many) that Stormfuck breeds irrational ideas and does not deserve to be listened to. The unfortunate thing is that I feel many young people are converted to that crap because they feel alienated. Then I was libertarian for a while after falling away from that. Recently I have been studying the ideas of socialism and Marxism and came here because I want to find out more about it.

[Nathan_Morrison]

When i was younger (like 9-12) I held quite fascist views, (racist, sexist, Hitler supporter etc) Then when i was about 13 i started getting into Socialism, because well basically i realised it was bullshit, that everyone was equal, no matter what colour they are, what sex they were.

[runningmadbull]

It seems a lot of people drawn to radical politics have at least been on both sides of the aisle at some time. Though I find more fascists move over to the left than socialists to the right, at least within radical circles.

[Red Flag Rising]

I find more fascists move over to the left than socialists to the right, at least within radical circles.

Sadly, I find the opposite to be true.

I have seen many good radicals jump to the fascists for a variety of reasons: unplesant run-ins with people of color; latent nationalist tendancies; sick of left-wing factionalism or inaction.

One of our best student organizers stunned us two years ago by jumping to an out-and-out fascist group and giving an interview about it to the student newspaper!

[RHIZOMES]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 03:21 am
I actually used to move about on the forums of the Stormfront after being converted by their jargon as a young white male full of angst. Then I realized (like many) that Stormfuck breeds irrational ideas and does not deserve to be listened to. The unfortunate thing is that I feel many young people are converted to that crap because they feel alienated. Then I was libertarian for a while after falling away from that. Recently I have been studying the ideas of socialism and Marxism and came here because I want to find out more about it.
That's similiar with me...

1-12: Idiot Christian right Pat Robertson-watching Bush-supporting idiot
13-15: Agnostic liberal
14: Looked into Stormfront, was nearly converted but my interest decreased everytime I saw the word "Nigger"/"Kike"/"Spic" being used when I realized what they actually were
16: Was looking into libertarianism for a few months, but realized how incredibly selfish that was and how it completely interfered with my idealogy of society's treatment of the poor being bad
16+: Converted to Islam after hearing about how Muslims are supposed to treat the poor
16+: Started looking into Communism

I think I've dabbled in practically every idealogy there is now that I look back. O_o

[hajduk]

i dont trusted them
they where on the dark side and when you to much watch in darkness they will broth her to us hidding under revleft flag

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 12:18 am
I thought about how open or closed the left should be to ex-fascists.
Look, most working class people are pissed offfor the right reasons, some of us just blame the wrong people. And although on the political spectrum Fascism and Anarchism/Communism are opposites, they both have the same support base. And I know loads of working class people, mates of mine, who have come out with fascist sound bites (i mean fuck i used to be full of them) and once confronted they can pretty much see the common sense value of your arguments. We often have the same virtues at the base of our arguments.

Loads of decent working class people have been duped into supporting the BNP, they see it as a solution to the failings of capitalism. I would talk to them as equals, and welcome them with open arms.

I've never had any major political ideological shifts, im pretty level headed, always had the basic ideas i have now. I've always been working class and aware of my position, for a while was a bit racist, but that's pretty common in working class areas. Only in the past 3 or 4 years have I decided to actually stop being a pissed off youth and get on and do something about it all. But I could have been persuaded by the BNP before I was politically aware, they say what you wanna hear.

[Autonome-Antifa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 12:07 am
What do you do with ex-fascists who want to turn leftist?
Just do nothing and look what he is doin. and first let him or her speak and try to get as many info as you can.

[spartan]

i used to be a nazi/hitler loving british nationalist until i came over to the right or should i say left side. minus the racist bullcrap fascists and left wingers are quite similar on some issues for instance both groups hate capitalism and they both agree that this is what fucks up society the most. the problem is to us the fascists blame the wrong people (they think it is an anti aryan worldwide conspiracy led by capitalist jews) whilst to them we side with the wrong people. if both sides could solve the whole race issue together we could be the strongest political force the worlds ever seen. but i dont think its that simple for fascists usually like power/strong goverment whilst in a communist world there will be no state or government. unfortunately fascists will never change but im sure they say the same about us. heres a question do you think marx who was half jewish but from what ive read derided jews do you think marx meant for communism to be in a white world only? its entirely feasable for this is the nineteenth century we are talking about and from various letters of marx he is quite the racist or so ive heard.

[hajduk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:14 pm
i used to be a nazi/hitler loving british nationalist until i came over to the right or should i say left side. minus the racist bullcrap fascists and left wingers are quite similar on some issues for instance both groups hate capitalism and they both agree that this is what fucks up society the most. the problem is to us the fascists blame the wrong people (they think it is an anti aryan worldwide conspiracy led by capitalist jews) whilst to them we side with the wrong people. if both sides could solve the whole race issue together we could be the strongest political force the worlds ever seen. but i dont think its that simple for fascists usually like power/strong goverment whilst in a communist world there will be no state or government. unfortunately fascists will never change but im sure they say the same about us. heres a question do you think marx who was half jewish but from what ive read derided jews do you think marx meant for communism to be in a white world only? its entirely feasable for this is the nineteenth century we are talking about and from various letters of marx he is quite the racist or so ive heard.
marx been created by the time and that time is the past
whatever hi think it is past
what do we think now is presence
from the past we must take it what is god and put that in presence
and all people i mean all (except those who dont like us) are welcome
even the martians :D

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:14 pm
heres a question do you think marx who was half jewish but from what ive read derided jews do you think marx meant for communism to be in a white world only?
I've read extensive articles about that from Third-positionists and "race-realist marxists" and the like.

But I think it's bullshit, google it if you want, there will be some textx on the issue.

[Dublin Red]

If former fascists are willing to come over to the left I think that they should be allowed to without any interrogation or mention of their past if they are comitted enough to our cause then we will be the winners in the end. The more people we can get the better and its always good to see fascists seeing that its bullshit and moving over to the left.

[spartan]

you do have to be careful though. some might be coming over just to gather information for our enemies.

[hajduk]

Originally posted by Dublin [email protected] 23, 2007 02:01 am
If former fascists are willing to come over to the left I think that they should be allowed to without any interrogation or mention of their past if they are comitted enough to our cause then we will be the winners in the end. The more people we can get the better and its always good to see fascists seeing that its bullshit and moving over to the left.
Dublin i dont trusted them at all you know whay?

1) probably they have some pshycic problems
2) probably are been to week to be a fascicst and now they whant to proof himselfs they are stronger and they will do that with sick forse
3) once fascist always fascist
4) like Spartan said probably they whant to infiltrate
5) dont trusted them at all

[Aurora]

Originally posted by Spartan+--> (Spartan)do you think marx meant for communism to be in a white world only?[/b]
Of course not,communism can only exist when there is no need for the state,the state is a violent instituation by which one class oppresses another,so the state can only cease to exist(communism) when there is only one class(the proletariat).
Also there is the marx quote "Labour cannot emancipate itself in the white skin where in the black it is branded."

Originally posted by [email protected]
What do you do with ex-fascists who want to turn leftist?
Be very careful,take things slow and make sure they get a good grasp of theory to dispell any remaining bullshit they may have.

Hajduk
1) probably they have some pshycic problems
I really doubt most fascists have mental problems,but i may have misunderstuud what you meant.

3) once fascist always fascist
I disagree,people do change for the better.When i was younger i used to be homophobic but of course now im not at all.I do think it would be very difecult for active fascists who are organised to change because of the propaganda they would be exposed to regularly.

[hajduk]

Originally posted by Anarion+August 23, 2007 05:22 pm--> (Anarion @ August 23, 2007 05:22 pm)
Originally posted by Spartan+--> (Spartan)do you think marx meant for communism to be in a white world only?[/b]
Of course not,communism can only exist when there is no need for the state,the state is a violent instituation by which one class oppresses another,so the state can only cease to exist(communism) when there is only one class(the proletariat).
Also there is the marx quote "Labour cannot emancipate itself in the white skin where in the black it is branded."

[email protected]
What do you do with ex-fascists who want to turn leftist?
Be very careful,take things slow and make sure they get a good grasp of theory to dispell any remaining bullshit they may have.

Hajduk
1) probably they have some pshycic problems
I really doubt most fascists have mental problems,but i may have misunderstuud what you meant.

3) once fascist always fascist
I disagree,people do change for the better.When i was younger i used to be homophobic but of course now im not at all.I do think it would be very difecult for active fascists who are organised to change because of the propaganda they would be exposed to regularly. [/b]
1) they got mental problems if they become a fascist

2) rare very very rare and do you take a risk to find out is he a real mcoy?

you are example which confirmed the rule

[Red Flag Rising]

I have seen the fascists do very well with their "Third Positionist" bullshit. By claiming to navagate the chanels between capitalism and socialism they have captured a lot of people who would normally gone left.

[spartan]

yes they have been very successful and though we like to laugh at them often they are a serious threat to us. people are also being attracted to them for their anti political correctness. pc always pisses off the youth.

[spartan]

i agree with what you are saying Red-Star-Hauge but education is not always the answer for in my nazi days education is what got me into the whole authoritarian racist bullshit in the first place!

[spartan]

well for me it was learning about the nazis that got me intrested in them in the first place. the natural rebel in me saw that when they said that they killed 6 million jews and that this was wrong then i of course would try to dissprove it or say the figures were wrong or even justify it (depending on my mood :D ). whenever someone said they were wrong i naturally used to say that they were right. eventually i began to believe in it but thats another story entirely. in a way i am glad i went through this phase as it probably taught me alot (and sparked my intrest in history and politics) and made me research nazisms traditional enemies the left. and that led me through years of mental anguish to become a communist and then an anarchist.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by hajduk+August 23, 2007 03:21 pm--> (hajduk @ August 23, 2007 03:21 pm)
Dublin [email protected] 23, 2007 02:01 am
If former fascists are willing to come over to the left I think that they should be allowed to without any interrogation or mention of their past if they are comitted enough to our cause then we will be the winners in the end. The more people we can get the better and its always good to see fascists seeing that its bullshit and moving over to the left.
Dublin i dont trusted them at all you know whay?

1) probably they have some pshycic problems
2) probably are been to week to be a fascicst and now they whant to proof himselfs they are stronger and they will do that with sick forse
3) once fascist always fascist
4) like Spartan said probably they whant to infiltrate
5) dont trusted them at all [/b]
HAHA! Thanking you very much to this post. Is really making my day!