USA voters are confused and distorted

[wake_up]

USA needs a Political Science 101 ASAP, lots of people out there are real confused, this is a big problem i see, it's like most people hate bush and neocons and what they are doing but they think that there is a cure within this system. That somehow the problem is Bush and not the concentration of wealth in a couple of people (Capitalism)

They hate Bush and oligarchies, but they don't wanna divorce themselves from capitalism and corporations. It's like i hate diabetes, but i can't quit eating sugars. I said it before there is no life in Ron Paul, Kucinich, Obama or any other progressives out there unless they totally try to change the political system of US which is Plutocratic capitalism.

Wake_Up

[hajduk]

I meet one guy,and he was for a while live in America.And he told me that in America you have coomon people who have common jobs and life.But he also told me that those people once for a while get call from a White House becouse they have asynment to chosse which guy who run for president is god for American nation.And he told me that once they pick the Clinton.One of this guys told to Clinton before he was elected that he walk around like fashion people.Clinton told to this guy that he can not talk to him like that,becouse he run for president,and this guy said to him "you are the product which we sell on political market,so please would you walk around to see you how it looks" :D

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 02:16 pm
I meet one guy,and he was for a while live in America.And he told me that in America you have coomon people who have common jobs and life.But he also told me that those people once for a while get call from a White House becouse they have asynment to chosse which guy who run for president is god for American nation.And he told me that once they pick the Clinton.One of this guys told to Clinton before he was elected that he walk around like fashion people.Clinton told to this guy that he can not talk to him like that,becouse he run for president,and this guy said to him "you are the product which we sell on political market,so please would you walk around to see you how it looks" :D
What? :mellow:

[rebel_lord]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 02:16 pm
I meet one guy,and he was for a while live in America.And he told me that in America you have coomon people who have common jobs and life.But he also told me that those people once for a while get call from a White House becouse they have asynment to chosse which guy who run for president is god for American nation.And he told me that once they pick the Clinton.One of this guys told to Clinton before he was elected that he walk around like fashion people.Clinton told to this guy that he can not talk to him like that,becouse he run for president,and this guy said to him "you are the product which we sell on political market,so please would you walk around to see you how it looks" :D

Hi, yeah i guess you are right, the capitalist system is like a fashion show, hahaha

rebel_lord

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

:huh: When did Ron Paul become a "progressive"??

[Axel1917]

People over here in the US aren't just going to wake up overnight. It is going to take some time, learning from life itself. I think that they may wake up sooner than everyone thinks, as many already want a third party, and the Democrats are really showing their true colors by continuing to support the war that almost everyone in the US opposes. Add this to living standards that are guaranteed to drop, the housing bubble bust, etc.

[Dominicana_1965]

Its sort of like what Eugene Debs said. People want to stop a war but support the system that breeds it. Also we must not forget that a lot of people still contain a "what now" reaction (a similar stance that the Russian proletariat took), as far as political theory goes...consumerism has made alternatives impossible to them. Some of the youth doesn't even know whats Capitalism.

[Entrails Konfetti]

USA voters are distorted?
Do you mean they are deformed and are schizophrenic?
"Heeeyy youuu guys!"

[freedumb]

US democracy seems to follow a pattern a little like this:

- A few terms of absolute shafting by a republican administration

- A nice, well-spoken Democratic candidate comes along, says some things you agree with (but commits to no significant change, only that he won't do what the curent guy has done), so he gets voted in by a populace sick of the republicans.

- Democrat guy doesn't change anything, a Republican candidate comes back in and the shafting continues

It's funny when Democrats say stuff like I won't engage in a war for oil. Well duh, because you just did, you don't need to anymore. And even if you wanted to, you probably wouldn't be able to.

I think Bush and Hillary Clinton, Obama, etc, should be thanking their lucky stars that there are people out there like Ron Paul to absorb criticism of the system without having to actually threaten the system. Ron Paul, Obama, etc are all false prophets, and false prophets become more and more neccesary as the populace becomes more and more dissillusioned and disenfranchised.

Think about it, if people angry at what is happening couldn't pin their hopes on another bourgeois politician coming to 'save america' and 'change direction', then they would probably direct their criticism towards the system itself.

Unfortunately, voters have short memories, if only they could remember that the same bullshit being served up by the Democrats now is the same bullshit that was served up by them in 1992. The result will be the same. Business, as usual.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You mean like: "Since World War II, the party in control of the White House has lost an average 31 House seats and six Senate seats in the second midterm election of a president's tenure in office."

[al-Ibadani]

Let's not forget that for the most part American workers don't vote. Which is not a bad thing, since elections are useless anyways.

The basis for the contention that USA voters are confused seems to suggest that things would improve if the voters were less confused.

For one I don't care too much about voters. Voters are a formless mass of "the people" (at best). I care about American workers. The combativeness, the solidarity,
the basic class consciousness is so low.

But the argument that whoever wins the elections, things still get worse for us workers is on point.

[rebel_lord]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 01:37 am
Its sort of like what Eugene Debs said. People want to stop a war but support the system that breeds it. Also we must not forget that a lot of people still contain a "what now" reaction (a similar stance that the Russian proletariat took), as far as political theory goes...consumerism has made alternatives impossible to them. Some of the youth doesn't even know whats Capitalism.

Hello all, how are you? mankind has a lot of mental problems not only right-wing parties but also left-wing parties all over the world are full of corrupt, egocentric people who use the leftism and the good name of socialism to reach to power, and for personal-wealth, the examples are real good: [Bachethelet of Chile, Zapatero of Spain, Lula of Brazil, Tavare Vasquez of Uruguay, etc. etc.] have all used the name of socialism in their parties, are members of socialist parties, and when they reach power, they apply right-wing economic models in order to suit their personal wealth because it is easier to get richer if u are a right-wing president than being rich with a left-wing model.

There is a morality, egocentric problem in all over the world, in all parties and institutions, i remember how corrupt a guy from a US socialist party was, he was running for mayor in Panama City, FL and he told me that if he gets that position he would steal 40 millions from that Panama City department.

And this is why voters are pessimists about all governments, right wing and left wing, so they vote for whatever they have available

rebel_lord

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 07:53 am
i remember how corrupt a guy from a US socialist party was, he was running for mayor in Panama City, FL and he told me that if he gets that position he would steal 40 millions from that Panama City department.
What was his name, what party did he represent....and why would he admit that to you?

[rebel_lord]

Originally posted by Severian+July 18, 2007 01:22 am--> (Severian @ July 18, 2007 01:22 am)
[email protected] 17, 2007 07:53 am
i remember how corrupt a guy from a US socialist party was, he was running for mayor in Panama City, FL and he told me that if he gets that position he would steal 40 millions from that Panama City department.
What was his name, what party did he represent....and why would he admit that to you? [/b]


Hello, well i really don't care what was his name, but i suspect that there is corruption in all people's minds. I mean just coz a person turns to Marxism, doesn't mean that he turns into a totally good person.. don't be so naive, childish, and believer. Most people are corrupt really, it's hard to find Marx, Che Guevaras, and good people out there

rebel_lord

[Kenhoma]

A great deal of American* people of voting age do realize there is little real difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. We know there is utter corruption in both parties. A common saying about voting is 'It is like being given a choice between being shot in the hand or shot in the foot.' Neither is wanted but the money system makes it nearly impossible to get a more Leftist party off the ground.






*I hate using the term 'American' to describe USA citizens. Canadians, Brazilians, Venezuelans, etc are american due to being from North or South America right? Is there something else to use besides Yank?

[MYSTIC OWL]

The United States political system has spent thousands of billions of dollars constructing a military industrial infrastructure, which, has been used to acquire an empire.

All of this was done without reference to its citizens, indeed, great efforts were made to conceal what she was up to.

Those citizens that were conscientious enough to find out about what was being done in their name were sold 'red herrings' such as 'we have a duty to spread freedom', or 'we must act on humanitarian grounds'.

Corporate interests have bought out the two main political parties and there is no credible third force representing THE PEOPLE.

On top of this dire situation, decades worth of imperial meddling abroad came home to roost on September 11th 2001. This justified taking away what liberties the people had left for the sake of the War On Terror with connivance from the media, (representing the same corporate interests).

Mrs Clinton and Barack (nee HUSSEIN) Obama are not the promised liberation. Donations are poring into their coffers by the same vested interests because they are OF THEM and not OF THE PEOPLE.

It is easy to get angry at the terrible spectacle of the neocons dumping the US Constitution in cow dung, however, if one steps back and views the historic trajectory of where she is headed . . . as the once wise prophet said, don't be angry . . . PITY THE NATION, PITY THE NATION :huh:

[Cheung Mo]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 16, 2007 10:37 pm
:huh: When did Ron Paul become a "progressive"??
Libertarians are less reactionary than Clintonistas.

[MYSTIC OWL]

CAN ANYBODY HELP?

What is a 'Traditional Conservative' as opposed to a 'Neo-Conservative' ?

I have no idea what a 'Clintonista' is.

I have a vague recollection of Libertarians, (I think my mother used to talk about them when reading bed time stories to me) :huh:

[Raúl Duke]

Well...I may be wrong...but:

A traditional conservative is correctly called a paleoconservative.

Wikipedia: Paleoconservative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoconservative)

'Clintonista' seems to be a made-up term, probably referring to either the former president clinton or, more likely, the candidate Hillary Clinton. I supose maybe Cheung Mo is saying that democrats/liberals are more reactionary than Libertarians.

Libertarians are people who believe in more freedom (more rights,etc) and for "free market" capitalism, in which government control is limeted or none over commerce. Libertarian was originally used to refer to anarchist, but the term was appropriated by the Libertarian Party.

Wikipedia: Libertarians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian)

[fabiansocialist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 11:48 pm
People over here in the US aren't just going to wake up overnight. It is going to take some time, learning from life itself. I think that they may wake up sooner than everyone thinks, as many already want a third party, and the Democrats are really showing their true colors by continuing to support the war that almost everyone in the US opposes. Add this to living standards that are guaranteed to drop, the housing bubble bust, etc.
Wake up and do what? Or how even wake up? Beyond calling politicians crooks and the system corrupt -- which sheds virtually no light on the mechanisms of power and exploitation. Due to a long-term and successful attempt at propaganda and disinformation, there is no alternative ideology in the US today. Without such an ideology there is no way of galvanising mass unrest and dissatisfaction to achieve concrete ends. The political "debates" between right and "left" are designed to further trivialise issues, to discuss operational means of achieving predetermined ends, to brush under the rug substantive questions of militarism, empire, and wealth concentration.

As others here have noted, there is a plethora of false prophets. And even if a true one emerged, his voice would be drowned by the cacaphony of corporate mass media. And if that didn't work, he'd be met with blank stares from a brainwashed bovine majority. And failing that, a bullet in the head from an assasin in the service of the ruling order would settle his hash.