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Tatarin
13th July 2007, 19:02
As the title says, could extremists in the US see the eventual withdrawal of troops in Iraq and/or Afghanistan like elements in Germany did after the first World War, i.e. like a "stab in the back"? What would the consequences of such a thing be?

Wanted Man
13th July 2007, 20:51
That kind of shit happened after the Vietnam War, too. Remember all the bullshit about Jane Fonda?

Dr Mindbender
13th July 2007, 21:15
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 06:02 pm
As the title says, could extremists in the US see the eventual withdrawal of troops in Iraq and/or Afghanistan like elements in Germany did after the first World War, i.e. like a "stab in the back"? What would the consequences of such a thing be?
i dont think much will happen. The Gulf war situation is merely Vietnam 2. I doubt its something the fascists will exploit easily.
Post World War 1 Germany was affected not only by the treaty of Versailles, but also by the fact that the German economy was heavilly influenced by the USA which is why it all fucked up during the Wall Street crash.
I cant see there be similar ramifications with this.

Random Precision
13th July 2007, 21:59
There also is not a strong and threatening left in the United States, or in most of the world for that matter, the fears of which drove many Germans into Nazi arms.

Andy Bowden
13th July 2007, 22:40
If American troops are forced out of Iraq, that would be a major defeat for the Neocons, not just in the context of American politics but within the Conservative right. Any further interventions into other countries are unlikely to garner support, bar some major terror attack on the US or with the ensurance US involvement will be limited to air strikes etc.

Its possible that a defeat for the neocons (along with anti-immigration feeling) could strengthen the traditional, paleoconservative wing of the Republican party which is generally against large scale interventions like Iraq.

I dont think the idea of America being stabbed in the back will garner much support considering how open and obvious a hiding their getting in Iraq is (along with the visible destruction of that country). Also American defeat in Iraq wont mean shit like, the US losing Texas or Florida, so it wont be like Versailles.

If Iraq becomes a 'failed state' or an Iranian proxy and this results in either future terror attacks, or attacks on US interests in the Gulf then yeah you may get the usual tirade about betrayal by the liberal media and how Iraq was just on the verge of victory over Al Qaeda etc.

I dont think people will buy that pish but who knows, give time, a bit of spin and it may take root - particularly if said attacks on the US occur.

hajduk
14th July 2007, 10:53
BOTH PARTIES IN AMERICA DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN WHANT TO MAKE AMERICAN IMPERIUM SO EXTREMIST ARE NOT THE PROBLEM IN THIS CASE

Raúl Duke
14th July 2007, 13:19
COMMITEE 300? :P

LOL

back to the topic at hand:

If the US failed in Iraq....well, I really don't know what might happen but it could get interesting.

The new Iraq could be friendly/proxy state/etc to Iran increasing their influence in the middle east and threatening US interests there. Right now Venezuela-Cuba-etc in Latin America are/could be threatening US interests there. China could be a competitor to the US (but doubt it; there economies are dependent on one another for now) and Russia wants to keep US interests out of the CIS countries (I mean, they made a big fuss about the missle shield being installed in Poland and I also heard that the Russians supports Iran.) There might be many more factors, but I see that in the future US interests-imperialism could be under threat and if they keep raking up failures like Iraq than maybe, after a reactionary phase that comes when a countries' imperialism is under threat of losing strength, a revolutionary situation might appear (however, I myself say thats quite optimistic..but who really knows?)

PRC-UTE
14th July 2007, 20:35
Originally posted by Andy "The Method" [email protected] 13, 2007 09:40 pm
Its possible that a defeat for the neocons (along with anti-immigration feeling) could strengthen the traditional, paleoconservative wing of the Republican party which is generally against large scale interventions like Iraq.


I think that's a serious possibility largely overlooked by the left.

Andy Bowden
14th July 2007, 22:54
Its ironic that some of the most vociferous critics of US intervention in Serbia/Kosova were actually from the Republican Party. And particularly hypocritical given their accusations of 'treason' to any American who doesn't believe in the Final Victory.

I guess theres a difference in what can be sacrificed in a war (propagandised as) to save foreigners from ethnic cleansing and those fought for revenge, or crushing a potential American enemy, imagined or real.

RGacky3
15th July 2007, 00:01
For a Totalitarian government to raise a country needs to be in the crapper economically, the US is doing quite well.

вор в законе
15th July 2007, 00:24
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 06:02 pm
As the title says, could extremists in the US see the eventual withdrawal of troops in Iraq and/or Afghanistan like elements in Germany did after the first World War, i.e. like a "stab in the back"? What would the consequences of such a thing be?
I would disagree. Germany was forced to pull out due to the Versailles Treaty, which was imposed by foreign Imperialist powers while in case of an American withdrawal it would happen because of the pressure of the American people and due to a change in the foreign policy.

Delirium
15th July 2007, 19:54
Only germany can turn into a post world war germany

Die Neue Zeit
15th July 2007, 22:11
Originally posted by PRC-UTE+July 14, 2007 12:35 pm--> (PRC-UTE @ July 14, 2007 12:35 pm)
Andy "The Method" [email protected] 13, 2007 09:40 pm
Its possible that a defeat for the neocons (along with anti-immigration feeling) could strengthen the traditional, paleoconservative wing of the Republican party which is generally against large scale interventions like Iraq.


I think that's a serious possibility largely overlooked by the left. [/b]
Not really. I've "believed" in that paleocon resurgence for quite some time now.

The point is that the paleocon resurgence will lead to a multi-polar world, smash Kautsky's ultra-imperialism and Negri's Empire, and validate once more Lenin's theory of imperialism - in its entirety and above any and all other theories of imperialism (sorry Red Rosa, but your theory isn't as well linked to monopoly capital as Lenin's :( ).

wake_up
16th July 2007, 03:29
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 06:02 pm
As the title says, could extremists in the US see the eventual withdrawal of troops in Iraq and/or Afghanistan like elements in Germany did after the first World War, i.e. like a "stab in the back"? What would the consequences of such a thing be?

Hello friends: I think that the Collapse of the Dollar will bring down US imperialism along with it, read this article which talks about the coming collapse of the US dollar:


THE COLLAPSE OF THE US DOLLAR

Imagine being sent forward in time from 1967 to 2007. Instead of gas costing 25 cents a gallon, it's $2.50. A decent home, intead of costing $15,000, costs $250,000 or more. Imagine your shock that the average American family owes $9000 on their credit cards. Imagine entering a society where less than 2% of the cars on the road are owned by those that drive them, and less than 1% of the homes are owned by the people who live in them. Welcome to the debt based slave state of America in 2007. It is all symbolic of how the globalists have America right where they want it, and are eager to finish it off. As the dollar continues losing strength, what will this mean to the world? Many will be deceived into believing that the economy is recovering; and then they will suddenly wake up to find their money worthless. As with the Argentina currency collapse a few years ago, so will the American dollar collapse likewise. However, the collapse of the US dollar is going to have much greater impact on the global economy and international political landscape than the collapse of the Argentinean peso ever did. The collapse of the dollar will reduce America to third world status, and it's people to a chaos they are woefully unprepared to face. It will be a period of tremendous hardship and economic deprivation. It will be a time of great tribulation.
With our money being worthless, there will no longer be the ability to import fossil fuels. The gas lines of the 70's will seem like a pleasant dream compared to what this would be like. Also, this will have a devastating effect upon the agriculture and transportation sectors. The transportation system will not be able to distribute food without gas or diesel. Industry will largely grind to a halt. No longer will the economy be able to function. It will be the end of the American global empire. As with the fall of the Roman Empire, America would be forced out of economic necessity to close its military bases around the world. There would be no money for government services, education, pensions, health care, security, etc. Society would quickly slip into lawless anarchy. The Homeland Security people would have their hands full, to say the least.

Yet even as the dollar slides downwards towards collapse, many refuse to believe that it is possible for something like this to happen today. After all, we live in an age when Governments and their Reserve Banks can support the value of currencies through intervention right? Various economists, speaking on behalf of the Federal Reserve, make soothing noises that there is nothing to worry about the dollar falling. They claim that this is going to assist American exporters, ignoring that the costs of imports will rise even more; and that the trade and current account deficits will continue to deteriorate. Some claim that while there have been collapses in the past surely this would not happen today. Sadly, the reality is that not only could this happen today, but it will happen much faster than at anytime in history. Modern communications enable billions of dollars can be switched from one currency to another at a click of a mouse today, when in the past it took weeks for speculators to switch from one currency to another. Never has been a time when currencies have been more vulnerable for speculation on their values.


The US Government is in a bind. If they lift interest rates to try and support the dollar, it will increase the size of the US budget deficit, plus the likelihood that the economy would go into a tailspin. The level of personal and corporate debt in the USA is now so high, that a sudden increase in interest rates would likely bring about an economic collapse. Either way, America is in deep trouble. What we could experience is a run on the US dollar, until it becomes completely worthless. There have been collapses of currencies throughout history. A recent example has been the collapse of the German Mark in 1923. At that time, the German economy was saddled in massive external debts, plus was being forced to repay war reparations. America is in a similar position today, as the world’s largest debtor nation. Let’s have a look to what happened to the German currency in the 1920’s. At the outbreak of WWI, the German Mark was going for 4.20 to the dollar, at the end of the war, the mark was 4.80 to one US dollar, at the end of 1919, it was 42 marks to the dollar. By Dec 1923 it had fallen to 4.2 trillion marks to one dollar.
The German people suffered severely during this time, and it set the stage for the rise of Hitler to power. What took 3 years to lead up to the collapse of the German economy would only take 3 weeks today, with the speed money is able to be transferred from one country to another. The collapse of the US dollar would remove America as a global power. There is now a shift of the balance of power from North America to Europe. THIS IS ALL BY DESIGN! The international bankers who control the US and global economy want America to collapse, in order to get the American people to accept a global currency. The Asian economies will also be severely affected by the collapse of the American dollar. Not only do these economies depend upon the US market for revenue from much of their exports, but they also hold substantial reserves in US dollars. The Chinese and Japanese banking systems would collapse, their dollar holding evaporating, and the high debt levels of Chinese corporations will cause a massive wave of bankruptcies.


The Euro will become the preferred currency of choice around the world, providing the Europeans with even greater political influence than the US has today. Behind all of this, the European based international bankers will further consolidate their power by creating a United States of Europe. The crises of the collapse of the US dollar will help speed up the creation of a United States of Europe defense force. Europe will emerge from the economic chaos that will erupt across the world as the dominating economic power bloc. Germany, as the engine economy in Europe, and the largest nation, will be in the drivers seat for the direction this new Europe goes in. Meanwhile, the nations of North America will be asked to repay their massive external debts. Having sold off much of their silver and gold, the creditors will look at other means of recovering the money they have advanced. America would be held in economic bondage to these international money lenders, even more than they are now. They are going to demand total control of our economy, reducing our people to slaves, where we will be held in economic bondage.


WHAT MONEY LOOKED LIKE WHEN IT WAS STILL BACKED BY SOMETHING
Already, America is despised around the world not only because of the Iraq situation, but also because America is generally seen as a nation that has been greatly blessed, but, partly because of the filth that Hollywood exports around the world, is seen as an incredibly arrogant, and undeserving superpower. This has left America with few friends that would come to it's financial rescue when the chips are down. God is allowing America to be humiliated and defeated for rejecting His Law, for trusting in wealth instead of trusting in God. Our leaders have for the most part rejected the Constitution, and have allowed this once great nation to be ruined by enslaving us to a group of international bankers, in direct opposition to what the Constitution states.
We are apparently now in the final countdown towards the greatest economic meltdown in history. Yet few appear to be aware of what lies ahead. We are about to witness the end of the America that we were blessed with, and enter a worldwide age of tribulation and chaos that no one has experienced in living memory.

wake_up
16th July 2007, 03:45
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 12:19 pm
COMMITEE 300? :P

LOL

back to the topic at hand:

If the US failed in Iraq....well, I really don't know what might happen but it could get interesting.

The new Iraq could be friendly/proxy state/etc to Iran increasing their influence in the middle east and threatening US interests there. Right now Venezuela-Cuba-etc in Latin America are/could be threatening US interests there. China could be a competitor to the US (but doubt it; there economies are dependent on one another for now) and Russia wants to keep US interests out of the CIS countries (I mean, they made a big fuss about the missle shield being installed in Poland and I also heard that the Russians supports Iran.) There might be many more factors, but I see that in the future US interests-imperialism could be under threat and if they keep raking up failures like Iraq than maybe, after a reactionary phase that comes when a countries' imperialism is under threat of losing strength, a revolutionary situation might appear (however, I myself say thats quite optimistic..but who really knows?)

Hi, how are you? Very scientific, very objective future case scenario of what would happen. Very nice, and you are right. Right now we are in an ultra-right wing imperialist world, after this right-wing phase, we might see a revolutionary situation. I wish that Hugo Chavez, and the Latin America left keeps exporting democratic and leftist ideals to all people of this world. You know because people, at least most people of this world have had a very right-wing absolutist world view. I hope this mental-revolution, and evolution touches everybody

Wake_Up

bezdomni
16th July 2007, 05:28
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 06:54 pm
Only germany can turn into a post world war germany
:lol:

On top of that, the conditions are much different.

hajduk
16th July 2007, 15:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 12:19 pm
COMMITEE 300? :P

LOL

back to the topic at hand:

If the US failed in Iraq....well, I really don't know what might happen but it could get interesting.

The new Iraq could be friendly/proxy state/etc to Iran increasing their influence in the middle east and threatening US interests there. Right now Venezuela-Cuba-etc in Latin America are/could be threatening US interests there. China could be a competitor to the US (but doubt it; there economies are dependent on one another for now) and Russia wants to keep US interests out of the CIS countries (I mean, they made a big fuss about the missle shield being installed in Poland and I also heard that the Russians supports Iran.) There might be many more factors, but I see that in the future US interests-imperialism could be under threat and if they keep raking up failures like Iraq than maybe, after a reactionary phase that comes when a countries' imperialism is under threat of losing strength, a revolutionary situation might appear (however, I myself say thats quite optimistic..but who really knows?)
Darko Iran works for Bush and rest of his pack,they will split the war prey beetwen himself, read the boock by Wiliam F. Engdahl "Century of war-special relathionship beetwen America and England"

Die Neue Zeit
18th July 2007, 03:31
The article has a religious overtone. Apparently, the idea is that, somehow, the Bible predicted a decline in America&#39;s influence and the resurgence of Europe as the End Times global empire. <_<