Chippers! a.k.a. Fast Food joints - vested interest and t'in

[canikickit]

So, a friend of mine has a chipper. I told him I was interested in communism, and I'm sure it's a better way to run society and he said it was shit because it doesn't give you the freedom to start up your own business.

The question is, what is to become of chippers, how should they be run.

I'll give you the low down on his situation. It's a family run place. The employ a few people, and need a staff of about three people to run it. Their wages are excellent. Far better than I've ever been paid.

Obviously, they make about 80% more than their staff. However, I can tell you they they put in, without a doubt 80% more effort. Are they worthy of this extra money? They have to pay for cleaning, insurance, premises rent, equipment, supplies, etc., etc. They work in the shop as much as any of their employees, and also do all the extra work that comes into play as proprieter.

Like I was saying in some other thread, society as we know it shall be different without capitalism, but how will places like this be integrated?

A quick thought would be that younger people could do jobs like this. it could be like a "national service" to work in a chipper or newsagents or whatever.

(Edited by canikickit at 3:27 am on April 7, 2003)

[synthesis]

Typical bourgeois reactionary rhetoric. I'd have them all shot.

[MJM]

Petty Bourgeoisie thoughts I'd agree. Does you're friend want his children and his childrens children etc... to work in the chipper?
Probably not, my guess is he aspires to some degree to build a new Mcdonalds if he had half a chance.
Problem is he most likely won't, and unless he wants his kids working in the chipper till their dying days, he's showing his petty bourgeoisie tendencies and fooling himself about freedom and how it relates to owning a chipper.

You have to look at the bigger picture to a large degree to get what communism is about. The hard work he's putting in for future benefits of his family or his retirement wouldn't be necessary in a society where the average work week is a lot less than now, education and health care are free and distribution of wealth is equal.
You can most likely win him over if you try, you just have to know what pulls his strings and from there make it personal to him. Then again if he's happy taking the rewards from others work, well what can you say.

To be honest chippers don't bother me too much, although it is a part of our consumerist society I'm not overly keen on. I'm guessing there's only one or two staff working there, the people who make the chips and fish are the ones I'm more concerned about. There's a good chance the supplies come from multinational corporations who really fuck over the working class.
Then again maybe he peels his own potatoes and catches his own fish.

Your mate could have a chipper in most socialist countries I'd say, as long as he only took the profit from his labour not other peoples (this includes wives, kids etc.).
Communist society is a long way off, I doubt he's got much to worry about, unless his kids are running the joint still.

(Edited by MJM at 7:37 pm on April 7, 2003)

[hazard]

wtf is a chipper?

I think u mean like a french fry wagon or something, right?

[chamo]

chipper must be an Irish expression.;)

What is to become of chip shops in socialist society? They would be run by the people, for the people.

No individual runs the shop, the people's government do, but no profit are made and money goes back to the people or into improving the chipper and our services.

[canikickit]

my guess is he aspires to some degree to build a new Mcdonalds if he had half a chance.

Pretty much. They're materialistic as hell.


although it is a part of our consumerist society I'm not overly keen on. I'm guessing there's only one or two staff working there, the people who make the chips and fish are the ones I'm more concerned about. There's a good chance the supplies come from multinational corporations who really fuck over the working class.
Then again maybe he peels his own potatoes and catches his own fish.

Well, they do peel their own potatoes, and they get most of their produce from another family owned-type-of-thing. It mightn't be a family, but it's not a big multinational. They're the same guy who supply all the chippers. They're all Italians.

But that's all a part of capitalism. At some stage most businesses, most ways of making money have something which crosses the line. The own the world, the multinationals.

Then again if he's happy taking the rewards from others work, well what can you say.

But he's not. Sure, there are people that work for him. But he does as much as they do (literally the exact same work) and so much more. He has to be there all day every day, while they can go when their shift ends.

I guess I'm just trying to show that chippers aren't really a bad business to start up. They could be a hell of a lot worse. With regards to wanting his own "McDonalds", it's not really relevant. Just chippers in themselves are okay.

Of course chippers would be very different under socialism. And it would have to be a gradual thing.

I don't know what the point of this thread is, to be honest.

[Som]

I don't know what the point of this thread is, to be honest.

Seems to have a very good point, something usually missed, the point being, what happens to the little guy?

this one being the chippers, maybe corner stores, opening up your own industry, starting something and so on.

Like I was saying in some other thread, society as we know it shall be different without capitalism, but how will places like this be integrated?

Theres a few ways of doing this.

If we're to run a more market oriented socialism, based on co-ops and the like, the situation there would be that everyone who works there becomes a full partner, and all descisions are very democratic. Since your friend seems to know how its all done, he'd just have to be decided as the manager by some sort of vote or concensus.
Hopefully if he really deserves 80% more, they'd decide this wage increase democratically, If not, as a partner, he'd only be expected to work for what he makes.

If it would be put under a sort of government control, I'd think very little would change in how it was done. It wouldn't be 'his' chippers anymore of course, it would be a public chippers. His.. title to it would generally just change from owner to manager, and whatever public branch has it has the real last say in things.
His workers would probably also gain the ability to fire him, and have a fair say in certain things.

They might be very good to work for now, but generally, under socialism, they'd lose any 'right' to.. well change their mind about that.

and he said it was shit because it doesn't give you the freedom to start up your own business.

Well it doesn't give you the 'freedom' to own your buisness, but hopefully any responsive socialism will give people an oppurtunity to start something new, a new division or branch of things. With the co-ops he could start it basically like any other buisness, just he loses that right of being a boss. As a public enterprise, he could propose it to a local branch of public ownership, and with the democratic ok he could set to be that manager.

Theres definitely more ways than that to do things though.


..... What sort of stuff is at a chippers anyway? is it the same sort of generic fastfood like mcdonalds or burger king and the like?