Amazon Feminism

[kelly-087]

Hello, I am just wondering if anyone here is an amazon feminist? I am quite intrested in the ideology and would like to learn more about it.

Thanks.

[RedCommieBear]

Originally posted by kelly-[email protected] 06, 2007 03:18 am
Hello, I am just wondering if anyone here is an amazon feminist? I am quite intrested in the ideology and would like to learn more about it.

Thanks.
Well, it looks like Amazon femenism puts its focus on creating strong female characters in media. And while every feminist or pro-feminist is against gender sterotyping, I don't see much of a need to create a new branch of feminism where there's no need, it's agreed women need to be portrayed fairly in media.

Edit: Fixed a strangely worded ending (portrayed fairly in culture?)

[kelly-087]

Originally posted by RedCommieBear+July 06, 2007 04:45 am--> (RedCommieBear @ July 06, 2007 04:45 am)
kelly-[email protected] 06, 2007 03:18 am
Hello, I am just wondering if anyone here is an amazon feminist? I am quite intrested in the ideology and would like to learn more about it.

Thanks.
Well, it looks like Amazon femenism puts its focus on creating strong female characters in media. And while every feminist or pro-feminist is against gender sterotyping, I don't see much of a need to create a new branch of feminism where there's no need, it's agreed women need to be portrayed fairly in media.

Edit: Fixed a strangely worded ending (portrayed fairly in culture?) [/b]
Doesnt it also support tomboy characteristics and strong physical health?

Anyways what I am wondering is what type of female hero does an amazon feminist support and try to create?

Would they support a female heroine along the lines of Sailor Moon? Or strictly someone like She-Hulk, Samus Aran etc?

[Cheung Mo]

This is the sort of wankery that I would not expect from leftists: But rather from the sort of bourgeois liberal so-called feminists who consider Hillary Clinton on the Wal-mart board of directors to be some great liberating victory for women. (But then again, most people don't know that everything worthwhile about liberation that came out of Steinem's mouth had already been stated before by Marx, Lenin, Luxemburg, Engels, and Trotsky...)

[TC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 04:45 am
And while every feminist or pro-feminist is against gender sterotyping, I don't see much of a need to create a new branch of feminism where there's no need, it's agreed women need to be portrayed fairly in media.

Eh, i don't think 'women need to be portrayed fairly in the media', if by that you mean women aren't already.

The media shows a diverse away of women covering the spectrum of human variance, at least to the same extent as with men.

Women are not a minority, there is no general stereotype of women in general, rather many stereotypes of much much more narrow female demographic groups (such as whtie female Cheerleaders with southern California accents, little 90+ year old ladies, punk rock late teen early 20 middle class white girls, etc). Similarly there is no general stereotype of men but rather particular stereotypes of narrow demographics of men (working class construction workers with pot belies, urban upper-middle class gay men in the fashion and media industry, skinny white boys who like emo music, etc)

What this actually entails is not media stereotypes of women (or men) but rather stereotypes of people possessing features other than gender (such as being a cheerleader, a construction worker, sexy, blonde, fat, nerdy, etc) which identity-politics psudo-feminists latch onto as general representation of women. This is a projection of their own personal insecurities and political ideology and not something that exists innately in the media.

Women are not a minority group, even repeated portrayals of individuals who happen to be women acting or appearing in a certain fashion is no reflection on women in general.

[kelly-087]

Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 06, 2007 10:55 am
This is the sort of wankery that I would not expect from leftists: But rather from the sort of bourgeois liberal so-called feminists who consider Hillary Clinton on the Wal-mart board of directors to be some great liberating victory for women. (But then again, most people don't know that everything worthwhile about liberation that came out of Steinem's mouth had already been stated before by Marx, Lenin, Luxemburg, Engels, and Trotsky...)
What?

[RedCommieBear]

Originally posted by kelly-087+July 06, 2007 04:16 pm--> (kelly-087 @ July 06, 2007 04:16 pm)
Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 06, 2007 10:55 am
This is the sort of wankery that I would not expect from leftists: But rather from the sort of bourgeois liberal so-called feminists who consider Hillary Clinton on the Wal-mart board of directors to be some great liberating victory for women. (But then again, most people don't know that everything worthwhile about liberation that came out of Steinem's mouth had already been stated before by Marx, Lenin, Luxemburg, Engels, and Trotsky...)
What? [/b]
I think he's talking about how having Xena on the television or She-hulk in the comic books is completely irrelevant to the overall feminist movement. Maybe I should've made my post clearer. We shouldn't be concerned about the fact that the Lord of the Rings doesn't contain strong female characters, the real attention should be given to the fact a large segement of society wants the government to be in a woman's uterus.


TragicClown
Eh, i don't think 'women need to be portrayed fairly in the media', if by that you mean women aren't already.

The media shows a diverse away of women covering the spectrum of human variance, at least to the same extent as with men.

Women are not a minority, there is no general stereotype of women in general, rather many stereotypes of much much more narrow female demographic groups (such as whtie female Cheerleaders with southern California accents, little 90+ year old ladies, punk rock late teen early 20 middle class white girls, etc). Similarly there is no general stereotype of men but rather particular stereotypes of narrow demographics of men (working class construction workers with pot belies, urban upper-middle class gay men in the fashion and media industry, skinny white boys who like emo music, etc)

What this actually entails is not media stereotypes of women (or men) but rather stereotypes of people possessing features other than gender (such as being a cheerleader, a construction worker, sexy, blonde, fat, nerdy, etc) which identity-politics psudo-feminists latch onto as general representation of women. This is a projection of their own personal insecurities and political ideology and not something that exists innately in the media.

Women are not a minority group, even repeated portrayals of individuals who happen to be women acting or appearing in a certain fashion is no reflection on women in general.

Point taken. I concede I had no idea what I was talking about.

[kelly-087]

I think he's talking about how having Xena on the television or She-hulk in the comic books is completely irrelevant to the overall feminist movement. Maybe I should've made my post clearer. We shouldn't be concerned about the fact that the Lord of the Rings doesn't contain strong female characters, the real attention should be given to the fact a large segement of society wants the government to be in a woman's uterus.
So what exactly is amazon feminism? It seems like no one answered that question instead ranted about it.

[RedCommieBear]

Originally posted by kelly-[email protected] 06, 2007 06:50 pm
So what exactly is amazon feminism? It seems like no one answered that question instead ranted about it.
Amazon feminism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_feminism)
Amazon international (http://folk.uio.no/thomas/lists/amazons.html)

[kelly-087]

Originally posted by RedCommieBear+July 06, 2007 06:56 pm--> (RedCommieBear @ July 06, 2007 06:56 pm)
kelly-[email protected] 06, 2007 06:50 pm
So what exactly is amazon feminism? It seems like no one answered that question instead ranted about it.
Amazon feminism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_feminism)
Amazon international (http://folk.uio.no/thomas/lists/amazons.html) [/b]
Seems like its more then media image they strive for physical and social equality whats the problem with that?

Is there an amazon feminist whom I may ask more questions about this ideal?

[socialistfuture]

i saw two eco feminists speak about 3 nights ago at an environment and convervation conference. was really awesome.

def needs to be more widely studied.

[TC]

Originally posted by kelly-[email protected] 06, 2007 06:50 pm

So what exactly is amazon feminism? It seems like no one answered that question instead ranted about it.
thats because its a very obscure, narrow, culturally rather than politically focused tendency adopted by only a few academics. its not a movement. it doesn't have a huge amount of literature.

to be able to answer your question in any greater detail than the wikipedia article, i'd have to do research, and google it...which is probably what you should do because its a bit to obscure.

unless anyone has special knowledge about it.


Seems like its more then media image they strive for physical and social equality whats the problem with that?


well, all feminists (except difference feminists, 'radical' feminists, lesbian separatists, and other phoney 'feminists') strive for equality...so thats hardly distinctive.

What i think is problematic about it though, is that they do the same thing that the patriarchal conservatives do: they try to politicize women's bodies. This is of course, a reaction to the manner in which the conservative traditionalists politicize women's bodies so they do it in quite a different way, but it is still a major error. Bodies are not inherently political, they are only made political by patriarchal power structures, but people's physicality should be recognized as a strictly personal rather than political thing and it should not be subject to people's political interpretation which only serves to project their private morality onto someone elses bodies.

While its obviously worse to project a morality of a carring patriarchal mother onto women and insist that they treat their bodies accordingly and don't get abortions and breast feed and stay home with kids and otherwise romantacize a domestic role for women, its also bad to project a morality of a 'warrior woman' onto women and insist that they're atheletic and build their bodies and romanticize a heroic role for women.

it should not be a political issue at all.

[socialistfuture]

that is not true - here is the movement in india

http://www.navdanya.org/


Introduction to Navdanya

Navdanya started as a program of the Research Foundation for science, Technology and Ecology (RFSTE), a participatory research initiative founded by world-renowned scientist and environmentalist Dr. Vandana Shiva, to provide direction and support to environmental activism.

1984 was the year of the Punjab Violence and the Bhopal tragedy. This violence demanded a paradigm shift in the practice of agriculture. Navdanya was born of this search for nonviolent farming, which protects biodiversity, the Earth and our small farmers.

Navdanya means nine crops that represent India's collective source of food security. The main aim of the Navdanya biodiversity conservation programme is to support local farmers, rescue and conserve crops and plants that are being pushed to extinction and make them available through direct marketing.

Navdanya is actively involved in the rejuvenation of indigenous knowledge and culture. It has created awareness on the hazards of genetic negineering, defended people's knowledge from biopiracy and food rights in the face of globalisation.

It has its own seed bank and organic farm spread over an ares of 20 acres in Uttranchal, north India.

We need once more to feel at home on the earth and with each other. We need a new paradigm to respond to the fragmentation caused by various forms of fundamentalism. We need a new movement, which allows us to move from the dominant and pervasive culture of violence, destruction and death to a culture of non-violence, creative peace and life. That is why in India, Navdanya started the Earth democracy movement, which provides an alternative world view in which humans are embedded in the Earth Family, we are connected to each other through love, compassion, not hatred and violence and ecological responsibility and economic justice replaces greed, consumerism and competition as objectives of human life.



will put more in if u want.
these are movements - in the third world and are small in the rich affluent western countries.

it is very political -


Seed sovereignty

Following Gandhiji’s inspiration from the Salt Satyagraha we declared the launch of ‘Bija Satyagraha’ against Seed Laws and Patent Laws that seek to make sharing and saving of seed a crime and make seed the “Property” of Monsanto forcing us to pay royalties for what is our collective heritage. The Bija Swaraj campaign, launched by Navdanya, demands that Indian laws do not legalize patents on seed and food; and TRIPs is reviewed to exclude patents on seed and food. Under Bija Swaraj, we pledged to protect sovereignty to save our seeds and grow our food freely without MNCs domination and control. We have received the precious gift of biodiversity and seeds from nature and our ancestors. We pledge to protect our rich biological heritage and fundamental freedom to save and exchange seeds.
Water sovereignty

The Green Revolution and the various policies of the World Bank related to water have already created acute water shortage throughout the country. Today, bowing again to World Bank and W.T.O. pressures, the government is rushing to privatize water and hand over its ownership to giant corporations. Privatization of water will totally bypass people’s needs, sustainability and equity in the use of water. The government is signing away the water rights of the people to giant MNCs like Coca Cola, Pepsi, Monsanto, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Suez and Vivendi.

The Jal Swaraj Movement was launched by Navdanya in the year 2000, to protect our water from privatization and commodification as well as to bring awareness among the people on the subject of the traditional water harvesting system and diverse river cultures existing in biodiversity rich India. RFSTE and Citizens Front for Water Democracy (a group of more than hundred organizations) are actively running campaigns against water privatization through World Bank schemes such as Delhi’s Water Supply being handed over to the water giant Suez, which will steal Ganga water from U.P farmers. We along with farmers group from Bundelkhand and Uttaranchal have launched a fight against River Linking Projects like Ken- Betwa and Sharda-Yamuna, which are nothing but theft of our water and water heritage.

[socialistfuture]

International Steering Committee

* Dr. Vandana Shiva, India
* Prof. Jean Grossholtz, USA
* Dr. Ursula Oswald Spring, Mexico
* Ms.ChristineVonWeizsacker,Germany
* Dr. Sue Edwards, Africa

[kelly-087]

its also bad to project a morality of a 'warrior woman' onto women and insist that they're atheletic and build their bodies and romanticize a heroic role for women.
But isnt that better? I never understood why they project such a image of males but not of females. I believe that society should either project no image or project a strong, indepedent and "warrior" image to both sexes. To promote overall societal health and education.

[TC]

If by "isnt that better" you're asking, is it a less offensive thing to try to manipulate people into doing, then yah, it is, but better doesn't mean its not still categorically wrong to make a political issue out of it.

Telling someone that they need to change their bodies to suit someone's politics is wrong, regardless of what you're telling them to do, because its an affront to their personal autonomy and self-determination. Whether its Naomi Wolf telling women to give up trying to look decent, get fat, pregnant, and act stupidly motherly, or an "Amazon feminist" telling women to bulk up and project a "warrior" image, they're dealing with a subject politically which is none of their business to do so and when "feminists" start policing women's bodies or sexuality or personal presentation they're behaving the same way that patriarchal institutions have always behaved towards women.