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coda
2nd July 2007, 04:43
Remember what the "Holiday really stands for" and forego all the traditional 4th of July celebrations

and instead:

Light some fireworks in protest against the ongoing Iraq war.

Hold a spontaneous protest with your friends against NAFTA/CAFTA and other destructive free-trade agreements.

Pass out copies of the communist manifesto or other revolutionary literature at whatever keg party or backyard BBQ you are going to attend.

but if you really have the urge to celebrate all the traditional trappings that the US stands for-- do it by making a big bonfire and burning some US flags and copies of the Constitution.

Happy Anti-4th!

Drive Carefully

----------------------

Published on Sunday, July 1, 2007 by The Progressive
Put Away the Flags

On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.

Is not nationalism that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?

These ways of thinking cultivated, nurtured, indoctrinated from childhood on have been useful to those in power, and deadly for those out of power.

National spirit can be benign in a country that is small and lacking both in military power and a hunger for expansion (Switzerland, Norway, Costa Rica and many more). But in a nation like ours huge, possessing thousands of weapons of mass destruction what might have been harmless pride becomes an arrogant nationalism dangerous to others and to ourselves.

Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely moral, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, democracy.

That self-deception started early.

When the first English settlers moved into Indian land in Massachusetts Bay and were resisted, the violence escalated into war with the Pequot Indians. The killing of Indians was seen as approved by God, the taking of land as commanded by the Bible. The Puritans cited one of the Psalms, which says: Ask of me, and I shall give thee, the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the Earth for thy possession.

When the English set fire to a Pequot village and massacred men, women and children, the Puritan theologian Cotton Mather said: It was supposed that no less than 600 Pequot souls were brought down to hell that day.

On the eve of the Mexican War, an American journalist declared it our Manifest Destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence. After the invasion of Mexico began, The New York Herald announced: We believe it is a part of our destiny to civilize that beautiful country.

It was always supposedly for benign purposes that our country went to
war.

We invaded Cuba in 1898 to liberate the Cubans, and went to war in the Philippines shortly after, as President McKinley put it, to civilize and Christianize the Filipino people.

As our armies were committing massacres in the Philippines (at least 600,000 Filipinos died in a few years of conflict), Elihu Root, our secretary of war, was saying: The American soldier is different from all other soldiers of all other countries since the war began. He is the advance guard of liberty and justice, of law and order, and of peace and happiness.

We see in Iraq that our soldiers are not different. They have, perhaps against their better nature, killed thousands of Iraq civilians. And some soldiers have shown themselves capable of brutality, of torture.

Yet they are victims, too, of our governments lies.

How many times have we heard President Bush tell the troops that if they die, if they return without arms or legs, or blinded, it is for liberty, for democracy?

One of the effects of nationalist thinking is a loss of a sense of proportion. The killing of 2,300 people at Pearl Harbor becomes the justification for killing 240,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The killing of 3,000 people on Sept. 11 becomes the justification for killing tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And nationalism is given a special virulence when it is said to be blessed by Providence. Today we have a president, invading two countries in four years, who announced on the campaign trail in 2004 that God speaks through him.

We need to refute the idea that our nation is different from, morally superior to, the other imperial powers of world history.

We need to assert our allegiance to the human race, and not to any one nation.

Howard Zinn, a World War II bombardier, is the author of the best-selling A Peoples History of the United States (Perennial Classics, 2003, latest edition). This piece was distributed by the Progressive Media Project.

Orange Juche
4th July 2007, 02:22
Alcohol and things that explode seems strangely appropriate for a nation like America to celebrate itself haha.

Pawn Power
4th July 2007, 07:41
There will be some protests/rallies in Philadelphia for the occasion.

redcannon
4th July 2007, 09:01
ugh, another holiday giving inbred nationalist pricks a reason to get drunk off their asses and justify US occupation of foreign lands in the name of "national interest"

makes me sick.

sapho
4th July 2007, 11:55
As America celebrates Independence Day, I find myself wishing too, I could declare independence.

I would like to declare independence from a national government that noisily decries "interference" in the form of government regulation, but quietly enacts new regulations that award politically influential corporations more direct control over my daily life than "big government" ever had or wanted.

I also would like to declare independence from a foreign policy that labels all other nations as either subordinates or enemies, and from a government that seeks to package its morally ambiguous eses of military force as new and improved versions of World War two.

I would like to declare independence from a country that secretely and abducts suspects, holds them incommunicado in secret prisons, tortures them while in custody, then claims its spreading democracy!.

Ultimately, I would like more than anything to declare independence from what the U.S has become in the last six or so years. Its impossible for me to believe that our nations Founding Fathers wouldn't have wanted to declare independence from these things, too. :ph34r:

Pawn Power
4th July 2007, 21:27
Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 03:01 am
ugh, another holiday giving inbred nationalist pricks a reason to get drunk off their asses and justify US occupation of foreign lands in the name of "national interest"

makes me sick.
Most U$ nationalists are not inbred, at least no more then we are.

Red Rebel
5th July 2007, 00:35
Or you could celebrate America's right to self-determination. It is after all independence day. Not saying that america isn't imperialist but self-determination is a part of the revolution.

I couldn't make it to the protests in Philly today. :(

Pawn Power
5th July 2007, 02:00
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 04, 2007 06:35 pm
Or you could celebrate America's right to self-determination.
Self-determination for who?

"When the Declaration of Independence was read, with all its flaming radical language, from the town hall balcony in Boston, it was read by Thomas Crafts, a member of the Loyal Nine group, conservatives who had opposed militant action against the British. Four days after the reading, the Boston Committe of Correspondence ordered the townsmen to show up on the Common for a military draft. The rich, iti turned out, could avoid the draft by paying for substitutes; the poor had to serve. This led to rioting, and shouting: 'Tyranny in Tyranny let it come from whom it may.' "
-Howard Zinn A Peaople's History 74-5

The Advent of Anarchy
5th July 2007, 02:29
One country's Independence Day, another country's "We are Conquered" Day.

CornetJoyce
5th July 2007, 03:01
Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 05, 2007 01:00 am

"When the Declaration of Independence was read, with all its flaming radical language, from the town hall balcony in Boston, it was read by Thomas Crafts, a member of the Loyal Nine group, conservatives who had opposed militant action against the British. Four days after the reading, the Boston Committe of Correspondence ordered the townsmen to show up on the Common for a military draft. The rich, iti turned out, could avoid the draft by paying for substitutes; the poor had to serve. This led to rioting, and shouting: 'Tyranny in Tyranny let it come from whom it may.' "
-Howard Zinn A Peaople's History 74-5
Odd that the Committee of Correspondence rather than the Committee of Safety or the Munitions Committee would take charge.
The rich could also buy their way out of the Union army in the 1860s. That embarassing inequity was cured in the 20th century by "selective" conscription.
The section of the upper classes that reluctantly but nimbly went over to the Revolution were, of course, the people who regarded the objective as independence alone. As Zinn presumably knows, the lower classes even in the 90s would still say "it was for Liberty as well as independence." But that section of the upper classes was able to erect a "braced" constitution to contain the Liberty impulse.

Red Rebel
5th July 2007, 03:24
Originally posted by "Pawn Power"
Self-determination for who?

I agree with you. (also just finished the people's history of the united states, great book).

But just as capitalism is better than feudalism, having your own elite rule you is better than having foriegners. Doesn't make the situation "good" but better.

Labor Shall Rule
5th July 2007, 03:29
I am, of course, not celebrating the 4th of July.

But I don't think we should downplay this historic event. The introduction of capitalist production on a national scale also laid down the foundation of socialism. The American Revolution and Civil War were progressive events; I am not inclined to chat about "Amerikkkan history" when discussing them.

CornetJoyce
5th July 2007, 03:41
Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 02:29 am
I am, of course, not celebrating the 4th of July.


I am, of course, no longer celebrating the 4th of July because it's almost over. However, I did as always, and I celebrated a little extra because it was Garibaldi's 200th birthday. I wore a red shirt in his memory.

coda
5th July 2007, 14:23
<<But just as capitalism is better than feudalism, having your own elite rule you is better than having foriegners. Doesn&#39;t make the situation "good" but better>>

They were foreigners to the million-plus Indigenous, who did indeed have their own forms of government that should have been deferred by those immigrants without invitation or Visas&#33; oh how they forget that now&#33;&#33;&#33;

Remember, the "Founding Fathers" stole/adopted the idea of Democracy from the Iroquois Six Nations Confederacy.

bcbm
5th July 2007, 22:14
Remember, the "Founding Fathers" stole/adopted the idea of Democracy from the Iroquois Six Nations Confederacy.

And, uh, most of the major thinkers of the enlightenment. It was based on a number of sources.

In any case, the Fourth of July over here inspired lots of folks to shoot off lots of fireworks... which is illegal. Ironic that celebrating the country breeds autonomous, illegal activities. :lol:

CornetJoyce
5th July 2007, 23:43
Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 01:23 pm


Remember, the "Founding Fathers" stole/adopted the idea of Democracy from the Iroquois Six Nations Confederacy.
Remember, the Iroquois were a confederation of 6 nations and not a Democracy. The Founding Fathers had the seriously democratic towns of New England to adapt from if they wanted Democracy. Most of them didn&#39;t. And if they "stole" intellectual property from the Iroquois, they must have buried it in the back yard because it isn&#39;t in the Articles or the Philadelphia constitution.

Iron
6th July 2007, 03:28
yes it is sad how far we have strayed from the values of the orignal founding fathers. America has turned down the wrong road and i belive its not to late to save it. though most people have this idea in there head that we can&#39;t make a differnce so lets just sit down and take it.

Marsella
6th July 2007, 04:01
yes it is sad how far we have strayed from the values of the orignal founding fathers. America has turned down the wrong road and i belive its not to late to save it.

I agree. Let&#39;s start lynching.

CornetJoyce
6th July 2007, 05:30
Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 03:01 am

yes it is sad how far we have strayed from the values of the orignal founding fathers. America has turned down the wrong road and i belive its not to late to save it.

I agree. Let&#39;s start lynching.
Nah, bring back Dzerzhinsky someplace else. We have enough problems.

Lacrimi de Chiciură
6th July 2007, 07:07
Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 10:01 pm

yes it is sad how far we have strayed from the values of the orignal founding fathers. America has turned down the wrong road and i belive its not to late to save it.

I agree. Let&#39;s start lynching.
I disagree. America may be a shithole now but it certainly hasn&#39;t gotten much worse since the genocidal patriarchal slave-owning racist shitbags known as the founding fathers created it.

Seriously, this talk sounds like the typical nostalgic patriotic "America must be restored to greatness" garbage... and America hasn&#39;t even lost it&#39;s status as imperial world power yet.

CornetJoyce
6th July 2007, 08:28
Originally posted by Fly Pan [email protected] 06, 2007 06:07 am
America may be a shithole now but it certainly hasn&#39;t gotten much worse since the genocidal patriarchal slave-owning racist shitbags known as the founding fathers created it.


And neither has Russia. But there&#39;s still the queen&#39;s birthday to celebrate.

coda
6th July 2007, 16:34
The Six Nations confederacy were surely engaged in a democracy. a full out and out participatory one with representatives, nominations, votings, vetoes, different levels of government-- the whole nine yards. much of what the founding colonial government was based on and the US gov. looks like today. Iroquois chiefs sat in on the Continental Congresses. The difference is the US set up a patriarchial free enterprising economic system where as the Iroquois followed matriarchial lines in a collectivist system.

Janus
8th July 2007, 00:50
Merged.

RevSouth
8th July 2007, 04:19
Depends on the crowd, but for people in my area it is an occasion to go to the next county (where fireworks that leave the ground are legal) bring them back to your home and spend half the night risking life and limb. Usually involves the cheap, flavorless beer the US is known for as well. If your lucky, you might attend a "Bottle rocket War", with the express intent of shooting each other with the earlier mentioned illegal fireworks.

RedHal
10th July 2007, 12:19
Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 02:28 am
yes it is sad how far we have strayed from the values of the orignal founding fathers. America has turned down the wrong road and i belive its not to late to save it. though most people have this idea in there head that we can&#39;t make a differnce so lets just sit down and take it.
LOL, turned down the wrong road, not too late to save it? America was founded on the genocide of the Natives. From that they progressed to slavery, then to segregation and lynchings, then imperialist wars after imperialist wars.. When the fuck was America on the right road?

praxis1966
14th July 2007, 23:57
Originally posted by RedHal+July 10, 2007 05:19 am--> (RedHal &#064; July 10, 2007 05:19 am)
[email protected] 06, 2007 02:28 am
yes it is sad how far we have strayed from the values of the orignal founding fathers. America has turned down the wrong road and i belive its not to late to save it. though most people have this idea in there head that we can&#39;t make a differnce so lets just sit down and take it.
LOL, turned down the wrong road, not too late to save it? America was founded on the genocide of the Natives. From that they progressed to slavery, then to segregation and lynchings, then imperialist wars after imperialist wars.. When the fuck was America on the right road? [/b]
Fucking A right. I&#39;m reminded of the speech Frederick Douglas gave on July 5, 1852. An excerpt:


What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer; a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy -- a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.

Iron
15th July 2007, 19:54
Originally posted by Martov+--> (Martov)I agree. Let&#39;s start lynching.[/b]

*sigh* so you dismiss the entire idea of America because of the action of the few.


RedHal
LOL, turned down the wrong road, not too late to save it? America was founded on the genocide of the Natives. From that they progressed to slavery, then to segregation and lynchings, then imperialist wars after imperialist wars.. When the fuck was America on the right road?

then you believe the constitution is wrong? i think the American revolution is a good thing as they, did oppose a monarchy and attempted to put power in the hands of the people and the system they replaced it with is a big improvement. divine right to peoples choice thats the right road. so they didn&#39;t fix all the problems with society at once. this is still no reason to dismiss its ideas. Stalinist seem to more than glad to put his failure aside to look at his "successes"

NorthStarRepublicML
15th July 2007, 20:29
we hold our yearly campout over the July 4th, yes we get drunk, discuss, shoot guns, and blow off fireworks.

i know alot of people here don&#39;t think the USA was ever any good, but honestly what other country would allow a socialist group to set up camp, shoot off their shotguns, sing songs of freedom, discuss politics, and blow off explosives ?