Protesting the Pledge of Allegiance

[Comrade-Z]

The following is copied from one of my e-mails with my friends:

"Speaking of flags, when the pledge of allegiance and the national anthem are done at the next assembly, I think it would be very funny if, immediately afterwards, someone starting hysterically shouting, "God bless America!!! God save the President, our Great Leader! May He protect The Fatherland and deliver us from evil!" And then if the teachers tried to discipline the person, the person could just start shouting, "You un-American traitors! We are in a time of WAR here! Where is your Patriotism?! How DARE you try to keep me from voicing my support of the President and our glorious Armed Forces, you Communist bastards?!" And then the person could strike up "Let Freedom Ring" or "God Bless America" or "The Stars and Stripes Forever" or some other patriotic bullshit and get everyone else to start singing it and keep the person from being reprimanded. Then, if the administration persisted, we could call in David Horowitz or someone else of his ilk and see if he would support us in our efforts to exercise our "academic freedoms" and "protest the liberal, big-government bias in our school systems." And then, right at the moment when the person is in front of national TV at a press conference with this David Horowitz fellow, the person could just pound that guy's ass with, "You fascist motherfuckers! Serve the Fuhrer, our President, eh? Protect the Fatherland, eh? Well, you can shove your Fatherland and all your patriotic bullshit right up your ass!"

[Charles]

hahahahahaha :lol: i would love to do that if only i lived in america, but john howard is like the mussolini of the bush regime so i could say something to do with him.


HEIL MEIN FUHRER BUSH :lol:

[bezdomni]

At my school we have to say our pledges of allegience during third period (we have to pledge allegiance to Texas also).

Then there is the moment of silence.

Since I participate in none of these and am openly a communist, nobody would take me seriously. Although it would be a good laugh...

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

You openly refuse to participate in pledging allegiance? Awesome! I'd do the exact same if I lived in the US. Way to go! :)

[Commie Rat]

I refuse to sing the Aussie Anthem, damn that racist bullshit to hell.

[Ricardo]

i never heard the australian national antem, why is it racist?

[Much Commie Love]

Uh...because there's racist elements of content in it?... THAT'S WHY, huh? WOW. Big f'in' suprise ;)

But if you need someone to show ye, I bet they can dig up a text of it. Try the 'pedia. Or wiki if you want. Hah! I won't go near that song.

[BillHicks]

I'm Canadian and I honestly believe one of the biggest reasons the Christian Right has gained so much support is because of the notion of complete separation between church and state. It could be argued that without that sort of guiding principle America would fall into theocracy...so is the claim.

However, I look at even our own Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and notice that in the preamble it recognizes the supremacy of God and we've always had a state-church relationship of some sort here without these sort of rammifications. For a long time this worried me, but then I had lawyer in my family explain the dynamic to me thusly:

God is indeed supreme, but the charter recognizes largely individual rights. So while it is noted that God is supreme, for God's will to be binding he/she/it would have to so decree in person to the Supreme Court of Canada. No lunatic bible thumpers claiming god's will will do--rather it must come from the horses mouth.

What is the net result? religionists don't feel threatened because the ceremonial wording of the document gives them comfort while the rest of us don't feel threatened since well, I suppose we just assume that if such a divinity existed we'd like to think he/she'd have better things to do than sit in a musty room in Ottawa in the middle of winter :P

Seriously though, a bone was thrown and it was appreciated and the net result is a fair document that has only increased judicial activism and social progression since its adoption 1982. While far from perfect, I would argue that the submission of an unenforceable clause probably saved us here in Canada a lot of the same bullshit our neighbours to the south are currently getting a taste of.

[FinnMacCool]

All I do is just stay seated when everyone stands up to do it. If someone asks me why I don't stand up for the pledge, I tell them. That simple.

[Jaden]

I do the same, Finn. Though, sometimes I'll stand if I'm in a happy mood and feel that there's really nothing better to do than practice my standing skills. :lol: At school assemblies sometimes I'll remain seated, but when I do stand I don't put my hand over my heart, or gaze upon the flag with pride and joy, or applaud when the ROTC kids leave the floor (unless they foul up their marching). Actually, I just stand there, crack my back, look around and roll my eyes when I see the biblethumpers stand the tallest and faux proudest. Just as some biblethumpers in my class will accentuate "under God" when they say the pledge. And the best part of my school is that no teacher will bother to force us to stand up or say the pledge. This is because the teachers are mostly liberal and the administrators might as well try to run a christian school here.

I'm gonna look up the Aussie anthem now, it's got me curious.

[Freigemachten]

Our school does the pledge every monday. Its pretty funny actualy, a friend of mine and myself are openly dissident to the country the government, and the school. So when all the other drones stand up and sell there souls to the state, we just sit there and laugh at them. At school sporting events, when people stand for the national anthem, we make sure we're out where people can see us, and we stand with our backs to the flag. I've considered quoting Anti-Flags, The Anatomy of Your Enemy the end bit, "Mother fucker i will not die, i will not kill.... etc." In place of the pledge or the anthem.

Jaden, about god. The class (German) that we do the pledge in is taught by an atheist, and he's hilarious, he sits with us while ever one else pledges, any way, every time they get to "under god" he either substitutes ohne (without) or just yells, "No god, I will not have that bastard mentioned in my class". its all very amusing



Edit
ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR
Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil;
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.
Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We'll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair

Am I missing something? I don't see anything openly racist here, do I have the wrong song? "Australians all" seems pretty open minded to me.

[Vladislav]

We rarely have to sing the Australian anthem and whenever we do no one actually bothers or cares to sing it properly. Usually the anthem sung by us contains a couple of swear words and doesn't make much sense.

Freigemachten, there is also a second part to the anthem. I can only remember a bit of it (They made us learn it and sing it in primary school). Goes something like:

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross we'll toil with hearts and hands... blah blah blah

[Jaden]

Yeah, I saw the original lyrics. Seems to love Britain above the rest a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Austr...original_lyrics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Australia_Fair#Dodds.27_original_lyrics)

Freigemachten, I like your German teacher!

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 09:17 AM
Usually the anthem sung by us contains a couple of swear words and doesn't make much sense.
Ahh, reminds me of the good old days when I attended a Christian elementary school. Except it wasn't the anthem, but psalms. Ahh, the memories... :lol:

[Freigemachten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 09:17 AM
We rarely have to sing the Australian anthem and whenever we do no one actually bothers or cares to sing it properly. Usually the anthem sung by us contains a couple of swear words and doesn't make much sense.

Freigemachten, there is also a second part to the anthem. I can only remember a bit of it (They made us learn it and sing it in primary school). Goes something like:

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross we'll toil with hearts and hands... blah blah blah
Still not seeing any racism, or religious influence, the southern cross is a constellation, there's a Norther cross as well, though in some cultures its represented by a goose. That line does look very familiar, its possible i missed it in copying.

[Commie Rat]

We rarely have to sing the Australian anthem and whenever we do no one actually bothers or cares to sing it properly. Usually the anthem sung by us contains a couple of swear words and doesn't make much sense.

Agreed heheheh



ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR


At the time the Australian anthem was written the proper english interpretaion of fair was fair as in white skin.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 06:59 PM
i never heard the australian national antem, why is it racist?


Whoops I pasted the lyrics but just noticed someone else already has done. Anyway heres a link to the tune below.
http://www.imagesaustralia.com/australiannationalanthem.htm

[Dr Mindbender]

Just be thankful youre not brit- 'God save the Queen' is the biggest peice of Beourgious arse kissing drivel ever written!

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 01:58 AM
All I do is just stay seated when everyone stands up to do it. If someone asks me why I don't stand up for the pledge, I tell them. That simple.
That is essentially what I did when I was in school.

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by Axel1917+Apr 1 2006, 10:41 PM--> (Axel1917 @ Apr 1 2006, 10:41 PM)
[email protected] 28 2006, 01:58 AM
All I do is just stay seated when everyone stands up to do it. If someone asks me why I don't stand up for the pledge, I tell them. That simple.
That is essentially what I did when I was in school. [/b]
When I sat through the pledge, I got constantly hounded by teachers about it. So much to the point where I almost felt ashamed, but I still sat through it.
My friends didn't really care about me sitting through it. Some even tried it out looking for a 'rush' :P. When people asked, I just said "I didn't feel like standing."


I regret not starting a conversation about why I don't pledge my allegiance. Nowadays I do when I get asked about it (rarely).

[Commie Rat]

Just be thankful youre not brit
Just play the Sex Pistols version

[phragit]

Reminds me when I was doing the Nazi salute durring the pledge last year. Old and fat gym teacher tried to get me expelled for that, so much for "freedom of speach" especially in context with political satire.

[stealthisname67]

Me and my friend Juan (a "Che-ist" [someone, he says, who follows the teachings of Ernestor Guevara) always stay seated, even when our teacher eyes at us with a disturbing stare, but when we are already standing when the announcements come on we just walk to the back of the class and face the wall, turning our backs to the flag.

[Brekisonphilous]

I remain seated gazing coldly at the ground or a wall.

[zero_ware]

Whenver we have to do the pledge at my school (every morning) I will usually just stand and not put my hand over my heart or say the pledge. The only reason I don't stay seated is because the teacher always tells me to get up. I should mention that it's not required for someone to do the pledge...

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 1 2006, 02:19 PM
Just be thankful youre not brit- 'God save the Queen' is the biggest peice of Beourgious arse kissing drivel ever written!
Thank fuck we're Irish!

;)

[RevMARKSman]

I stand and put my hands in my pockets. I think today I'll turn my back to the flag.

[Tree_Hugger]

I used to do that. Everyone in class would stand to face the flag and I just turned and faced them. I'd still do it, but my school doesn't say the pledge of allegiance anymore ( :D )

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I once was forced to turn my shirt inside out of get suspended because I was wearing a hammer and sickle shirt.

[RevMARKSman]

Update: my homeroom teacher asked me to not do it anymore because it's "disrespectful." Respect is EARNED, not given, especially when you're supposed to be respecting imaginary lines drawn on a planet.

[An archist]

*sigh* all these fun ideas almost make me wish we would sing our national anthem at school.
Actually, me and a hippie friend once did (well the part we knew)
When the teacher asked us to shut up, we said we were strongly nationalist and wished to express it.
Off course, coming from a guy with dreads and a guy with a mohawk, no-one took it seriously.
Like when you're saluting cops, they absolutely hate that, but it's not offensive, so they can't do you anything :P

[Moonfire]

We are suppose ot say the pledge every morning at my school. And like others in this thread, I just dont stand up or say it.

[drain.you]

I've never been in an educational building or any building for that matter where the british anthem has been played and people have been expected to sing along or whatever. It totally sucks though, I would hate to be in school in the US abd expected to do the pledge of allegiance.

[Freigemachten]

I was at some event with my family recently and part of the opening ceremonies was singing of the national anthem. I didn't stand with every one else. Some cop gave me the death stare and my grandfather yelled at me. he told me it was disrespectful and that i was to stand the next time it was sung. I told him I'd consider it when the people were really free, and would refuse as long as it was the only national anthem in the world about war. he wasn't happy about that

[ahab]

i was suspended, and almost expelled, for lighting the flag on fire. It was still on the flag pole when i did it at school lol im actually surprised they DIDNT expell me, but it was my last year so i didnt care.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 28 2006, 09:54 AM
The following is copied from one of my e-mails with my friends:

"Speaking of flags, when the pledge of allegiance and the national anthem are done at the next assembly, I think it would be very funny if, immediately afterwards, someone starting hysterically shouting, "God bless America!!! God save the President, our Great Leader! May He protect The Fatherland and deliver us from evil!" And then if the teachers tried to discipline the person, the person could just start shouting, "You un-American traitors! We are in a time of WAR here! Where is your Patriotism?! How DARE you try to keep me from voicing my support of the President and our glorious Armed Forces, you Communist bastards?!" And then the person could strike up "Let Freedom Ring" or "God Bless America" or "The Stars and Stripes Forever" or some other patriotic bullshit and get everyone else to start singing it and keep the person from being reprimanded. Then, if the administration persisted, we could call in David Horowitz or someone else of his ilk and see if he would support us in our efforts to exercise our "academic freedoms" and "protest the liberal, big-government bias in our school systems." And then, right at the moment when the person is in front of national TV at a press conference with this David Horowitz fellow, the person could just pound that guy's ass with, "You fascist motherfuckers! Serve the Fuhrer, our President, eh? Protect the Fatherland, eh? Well, you can shove your Fatherland and all your patriotic bullshit right up your ass!"
That post makes me happy :lol:

What a perfect plan, what could go wrong?

[which doctor]

Only about half my class in school stands for the pledge. Not because we're "unpatriotic", but because we are lazy and I guess don't care enough about our "freedoms" to recite some dumb spiel about them.

[Rizzo]

My class this semester never says the pledge in the mornings, but last semester, I would just sit there in my desk, living on a redneck town in the sourthern United States, it brought a lot of negetive feedback. All the rednecks would be like "Why the hell won't you stand up, do you hate America? it's the leats you can do, especially since your dad spent twenty years defending that flag!) In which case I would respond "don't bring my father into this, if you want to be the only atheist/anarchist in a right-wing, nationalistic, bible-belting household, then you can fucking say that" Eventually the teacher took me to ofiice and tried to convince me that it was against the rules, yeah right.

[yippie666]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 03:35 am
At my school we have to say our pledges of allegience during third period (we have to pledge allegiance to Texas also).

Then there is the moment of silence.

Since I participate in none of these and am openly a communist, nobody would take me seriously. Although it would be a good laugh...
haha same here....i used to not stand when the pledge and tx pledge came on.....but a teacher said she'd right me up if i didnt stand....i then pointed out to her the fact that she couldnt do that....so just to piss her off (and 'cause i was tired of hearing her ***** at me:)) so i started standing up but i turn my back to both flags now :D :hammer: :marx: :star: :banner: :AO: :A: haha....she always got mad when i did that....but now i just do that all the time out of habbit....and 'cause im tired of hearing my teachers yell at me.....:P

i would try that but im a very openly communist and anarchist (i got a giant hammer and sicle right next to a same size anarchy sing on my hoodie :A: :hammer:)

alltho ive always wanted to get a bunch of people and my self of corse....and say the pledge starting at the end-start....wail having the finger over our hearts....god FUCK ameriKKKa!!!

[Sir_No_Sir]

I stood last semester only because my teacher asked us nicely, and I respect her alot.
This semester, at least 4 people in my class never stand.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2006 07:02 am
Whenver we have to do the pledge at my school (every morning) I will usually just stand and not put my hand over my heart or say the pledge. The only reason I don't stay seated is because the teacher always tells me to get up. I should mention that it's not required for someone to do the pledge...
Don't stand. It could get people thinking and questioning what all this pledging is about.

Civil disobedience in protest to the was in Iraq and nationalism!

You have the "law" behind you as well. If the teacher or school give you shit contact the ACLU and they will have a lawer write a letter to the school.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Some of my friends and I are planning on replacing the American Flag on the flag pole with a Soviet Union flag.

[yippie666]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:06 am
Some of my friends and I are planning on replacing the American Flag on the flag pole with a Soviet Union flag.
haha good luck.....

[Pawn Power]

Fuck. I responded to some guy who posted over six months ago.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 05:25 am
I just stand there, crack my back, look around and roll my eyes when I see the biblethumpers stand the tallest and faux proudest. J
LMAO!!! i can picture you doing that. :lol:

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:06 am
Some of my friends and I are planning on replacing the American Flag on the flag pole with a Soviet Union flag.
3 or 4 years ago a buddy of mine replaced the american flag with the mexican flag at his apartment complex and ended up getting deported after he got arrested..

[Question everything]

I have an Anthem and prayer everymorning, sometimes I get away with wearing my Mp3 and listening to an Anthem I don't mind listening to (ie. International, Red Flag or even better what I was listening to before.)

as for the USSR flag, I'd avoid it, I mean even I relate it to Stalinism, Try the American flag with a Hammer and Sickle instead of stars (Always fun, it's even easier with the Canadian flag)

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:06 am
Some of my friends and I are planning on replacing the American Flag on the flag pole with a Soviet Union flag.
Take a picture if at all possible.

[Raúl Duke]

3 or 4 years ago a buddy of mine replaced the american flag with the mexican flag at his apartment complex and ended up getting deported after he got arrested..

What fuckers! :angry: (the cops and whoever reported him to those pigs)

Well, I never stand in the pledge of allegience this school year (use to do it occasionally last year, with my hands in my pockets... But this year I decided to go fuck em.)

If anyone ask why I don't stand I'll say a)something about the obvious hypocrisy stated in the pledge, b) about that the nation I'm from is still enslave as a US colony, so standing for the pledge is like bowing to a master., and c) state something about my politics.

[anarchista feminista]

Going to a catholic school i have to sit through prayer. It&#39;s bullshit. <_<

Okay on the Australian national anthem here&#39;s something I pulled off green left and an essay here (http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0207/fairisfair.php). My english teacher has told us about the meaning of the anthem and how bullshit she thinks it is. She&#39;s awesome :wub:


The national anthem, “Advance Australia Fair” is itself racist. It begins, “Australians all let us rejoice, for we are young and free”. The “young” refers to the popular myth that Australia is a young country, a myth that obliterates Indigenous Australians from our history.


Australians all let us rejoice
For we are young and free
We&#39;ve golden soil and wealth for toil, i think this had to do with the gold rush
Our home is girt by sea: this actually has connotations with keeping "non-whites" out. the sea being a way to keep them out. the song was written &#39;66; white australia policy
Our land abounds in nature&#39;s gifts
Of beauty rich and rare,
In history&#39;s page let every stage
Advance Australia fair,
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia fair.

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross,
We&#39;ll toil with hearts and hands,
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands,
For those who&#39;ve come across the seas
We&#39;ve boundless plains to share,
With courage let us all combine
To advance Australia fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia fair.



The song is about a collective effort, not so much at being a nation as at being seen to be one, being worthy of the name. The claim is justified on two grounds: possession and intention. We have golden soil, wealth, youth, the ability to toil, freedom, a beautiful country possessed of nature&#39;s gifts, boundless plains and so on. We make no particular claim to have done anything as yet but we have good intentions, specifically to toil with hearts and hands to make our nation famous as such. The setting of the song then is temporally ambiguous: we have x and we&#39;re about to y. The question naturally enough is: who are we? The song is naturally enough, as an anthem, about answering and not answering that question.

&#39;Advance Australia Fair&#39; is eat your cake and have it too stuff: we want to be a young nation about to play on the world&#39;s stage but at the same time we want to pretend that what is ours has an eternal quality. We want to borrow the timeless land myth; we don&#39;t want to acknowledge the time before our coming. We don&#39;t anymore even want to acknowledge our coming. We want to have always been here; but in an ahistoric way. The past should be irrelevant to the way we are now. This consciousness of an identity of pretended eternal rights is only achieved by multiple erasure: of time before the historic, of our historic consciousness of time. It is achieved by means of the terra nullius myth, the myth of an empty land prior to our coming. The song as it stands, the anthem as it is, is the perfect representative of that myth. The explanation of &#39;the historic facts&#39; in the original version has been removed as an embarrassment. The emptiness posited by &#39;Advance Australia Fair&#39; is deeply ironic. It represents a refusal of the ethical question which must lie under European presence in Australia. The land is empty because we emptied it. We have land to share because we took land. We only get to look generous because of a theft for which we do not wish to acknowledge responsibility. We sing from an emptiness wrought on ourselves in the act of emptying; the emptying of the land and at once the popular consciousness: emptying it of the fact of the emptying. Emptying ourselves of truth is the reflective act of nation: the basis of the collectivity on which a polity is claimed. It is a making colourless. How fair would that be?

The non-inclusion of Aboriginal people in the Australian polity prior to the 1967 referendum shocks many today. And it shocks as unjust, unfair, unreasonable. That it did not seem so for long stretches of white Australia&#39;s memory indicates that a different logic was then in force.

As to the event of singing ourselves into the &#39;fair&#39; future: three connotations just, beautiful, white conflate in an ambiguity where through repetition, through emphasis, and through the dignifying effect of an anthem setting, they come to imply each other. The unspoken terms of the song suffice to imply the conflation: the white man (now all the people) toil to make the land beautiful and just. Whether this is an accomplished fact or an uphill battle, regardless of who is now included in this mission, there is no doubt that this notion of progress as &#39;Australia-making&#39; is owing to the coming of the white man.

Should the question be asked of this chorus then: if this is not blatant racism, is it something subtler? Is it a kind of deep-seated racism which survives the bowdlerizing of those for whom white supremacist rhetoric might be a little close to the bone? One can go further: this polysemy, on which nothing can be pinned, might be a closet racist&#39;s gift, because it generates paranoia. It accumulates the force of an exclusion without resorting to any culpable act of exclusion as such. Is this racism at the inscrutable and unconscious core of the nation&#39;s sense of itself? Is this the taunting of those whom the nation defines itself as excluding? Is this song taunting them to sing themselves out of the picture? If so then note that they would have two ways to go: they could be assimilated (fair enough?) or they could see themselves excluded.

If the effect of this chorus is to say that Australia should go forward under the stewardship of the fair=inter alia white race2, then it is not a question of a particular idea of progress being conveyed despite the erasure of a previous story. The erasure of a particular past, which we are too polite to mention, enables the new story. The other past is erased together with the others who inhabited it. In the world outside of the song however, the others, whom we might be too polite to see, do still inhabit. They inhabit the new story, not as flies on the wall but as flies in the ointment.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 06:40 am
I once was forced to turn my shirt inside out of get suspended because I was wearing a hammer and sickle shirt.
RIGHT ON&#33;

[Question everything]

where do you get those shirts (I&#39;m guessing Walmart those asshole would sell anything)

[JRR883]

We&#39;re required to stand and say the pledge every morning. I try just sitting in my seat, but every teacher I&#39;ve had said that we&#39;re required to stand. I can&#39;t find any law that says that, so I stand and turn away from the flag. Heh, once after they said the pledge, one of the kids in my class said "Why you ain&#39;t be sayin&#39; the pledge? You must not be believin&#39; in God or summin&#39;." Another one said "Dude ain&#39;t got no respect&#33;" Public education is evil.

Does anyone know of a court ruling stating that compulsory standing during the pledge is unconstitutional? I&#39;m in Arkansas if there&#39;s no federal ruling.

[Organic Revolution]

This belongs in practice.

Moved.

[Question everything]

Just listen to music and murmur one of these edited versons, and end it with God Fuck america.

[Chicano Shamrock]

I haven&#39;t said the pledge of allegiance in years but when I was in elementary school we used to say it. I don&#39;t remember having it in either middle school or high school. When I was about 8 years old I started wondering why we were pledging allegiance. Especially to god when I didn&#39;t believe in god. So throughout elementary school I would stand, put the wrong hand on my chest and murmur something about the United Steaks of America and one nation under dogs.

I was too young to do anything like not standing or turning my back as I didn&#39;t know what was wrong with the pledge. I just knew it didn&#39;t feel right. By the time I realized what was wrong with it we didn&#39;t even say it.

The only time I ever hear the national anthem is at baseball games. I only go when the company I work for buys a box. A box for those who don&#39;t know is like a private room that has it&#39;s private seating area and also has a room with food and drinks and stuff. All on the companies tab so while some are standing for the pledge I am trying to fill up on what my wage slaving has afforded the company.

[Thíazì]

Originally posted by Question [email protected] 04, 2007 11:26 pm
where do you get those shirts (I&#39;m guessing Walmart those asshole would sell anything)
Wonderful German site.

http://www.linke-t-shirts.de/

I ordered some shirts from there. They probably won&#39;t arrive for a while since I live in the US.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by Thíazì+April 26, 2007 03:39 am--> (Thíazì @ April 26, 2007 03:39 am)
Question [email protected] 04, 2007 11:26 pm
where do you get those shirts (I&#39;m guessing Walmart those asshole would sell anything)
Wonderful German site.

http://www.linke-t-shirts.de/

I ordered some shirts from there. They probably won&#39;t arrive for a while since I live in the US. [/b]
I have to get them in a store... I might DIY a shirt...

[Vicarious]

Leave them alone&#33;&#33;&#33; They were created by men that believed in such a cause (obviously much different then ours), People should respect them and leave them alone in respect of the great sacrifices that they made and I do not say that as a citizen of the United States of America, I do not say this as a person this believes in the preservation of history of all countries, I say this as one that respects other cultures, other theories besides those of the "left", and people of all nationalities.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Question [email protected] 04, 2007 11:26 pm
where do you get those shirts (I&#39;m guessing Walmart those asshole would sell anything)
if i remember correctly, that shirt I got at some rally but you can get anything at Cafepress

[UrbanNinja]

Every morning in my skool we say the pledge. They have us stand and face the flag.

So of coarse, every morning I sit and stare at the black board while the rest of my class say the pledge.

My teacher confronted me about it and I explained my views and he just shook his head and mumbled something about drugs and sent me away.

What the fucK?

[UrbanNinja]

Oh and I&#39;ve been trying to re-write the pledge.

Something along the lines of Satan and baby eating.
Purely for shock value of coarse...

...
anyone wanna help me?

[Thíazì]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 03:09 am
Oh and I&#39;ve been trying to re-write the pledge.

Something along the lines of Satan and baby eating.
Purely for shock value of coarse...

...
anyone wanna help me?
Usually to piss teachers off I say the original version of the pledge from 1892:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all".

It&#39;s much shorter, has no reference to a deity of any sort, and best of all; it doesn&#39;t actually say to which flag you&#39;re pledging allegiance. ;)

Tricky shit, eh?

[CornetJoyce]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 12:46 am
Leave them alone&#33;&#33;&#33; They were created by men that believed in such a cause (obviously much different then ours), People should respect them and leave them alone in respect of the great sacrifices that they made and I do not say that as a citizen of the United States of America, I do not say this as a person this believes in the preservation of history of all countries, I say this as one that respects other cultures, other theories besides those of the "left", and people of all nationalities.
The pledge to the flag sucks but I like the star spangled banner. The commanding general of the invading imperialists was bagged by two teenaged snipers- a leatherworking apprentice and a saddler&#39;s apprentice- and went home pickled in a barrel of rum. The local vfw is named after the snipers (who were themselves blown to smithereens by the imperialists of course) and the locals have never had any trouble understanding insurrections against imperialism,

[ChickenJoe]

they put the united states of america in there in WWI and the under god part in the mccarthy era....... it crap I like the original one way better

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Originally posted by Question [email protected] 14, 2007 01:33 am
I have an Anthem and prayer everymorning, sometimes I get away with wearing my Mp3 and listening to an Anthem I don&#39;t mind listening to (ie. International, Red Flag or even better what I was listening to before.)

as for the USSR flag, I&#39;d avoid it, I mean even I relate it to Stalinism, Try the American flag with a Hammer and Sickle instead of stars (Always fun, it&#39;s even easier with the Canadian flag)
Where could you get that kind of flag?

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 01:46 am
Leave them alone&#33;&#33;&#33; They were created by men that believed in such a cause (obviously much different then ours), People should respect them and leave them alone in respect of the great sacrifices that they made and I do not say that as a citizen of the United States of America, I do not say this as a person this believes in the preservation of history of all countries, I say this as one that respects other cultures, other theories besides those of the "left", and people of all nationalities.
What.

Yeah, you go and do that. I&#39;d rather agitate for a society in which kids won&#39;t have to bore themselves to death sitting with their arms crossed, learning the words to ancient psalms by heart, as was the "cultural tradition" in the village where I got my primary education (while Bible studies were there, we worked with math and language methods from the 1970s, which left me linguistically impaired for years, and mathematically impaired to this very day).

If a few cultural conservatives don&#39;t like the fact that their old habits are dying rapidly, then tough shit. Forced pledge of allegiance to the stars & stripes, and to a certain song? Nope, in the society that communists are for, the kids can pledge alliance to whatever the hell they want, if anything at all.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 01, 2006 04:18 pm
Just be thankful youre not brit- &#39;God save the Queen&#39; is the biggest peice of Beourgious arse kissing drivel ever written&#33;
:lol: :wub:

[Andy Bowden]

"Rebellious Scots to crush..."

:lol:

[sapho]

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the REAL United States of America
and to the Republic -
elected by the People - not by the Court
for which it stands,
one nation - indivisible
with Liberty and Justice for everyone
not just rich white Republicans.

[Janus]

Merged.

[People&#39;s Councillor]

I wish I&#39;d been a Communist in 2001. Funny story: I was part of a group that was going to sing the Star Spangled Banner at a baseball game. I&#39;d have sung something like this:


Oh say can you see by the dawn&#39;s early light
All the poor on the street where they spent the whole night?
Whose torn clothes and worn shoes through the perilous night
Let them freeze while the rich saw them steadily dying?
And the <I forget the lyric that goes here>, the cold snow in the air
Gave proof through the night that the rich do not care.
Oh say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O&#39;er the land of the rich, and the poor people&#39;s graves?

[CornetJoyce]

The author of the Star Spangled Banner also wrote this:


if ever forgetful of her past and present glory, she shall cease to be &#39;the land of the free and the home of the brave,&#39; and become the purchased possession of a company of stock-jobbers and speculators; if her people are to become the vassals of a great monied corporation, and to bow down to her pensioned and privileged nobility; if the patriots who shall dare to arraign her corruptions and denounce her usurpation, are to be sacrificed upon her gilded altar; such a country may furnish venal orators and presses, but the soul of national poetry will be gone. That muse will &#39;never bow the knee in Mammon&#39;s fane.&#39; No, the patriots of such a land must hide their shame in the deepest forests, and her bards must hang their harps upon the willows. Such a people, thus corrupted and degraded
&#39;Living, shall forfeit fair reknown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust from whence they sprung,
unwept, unhonored, and unsung&#39;

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 05:41 pm
We&#39;re required to stand and say the pledge every morning. I try just sitting in my seat, but every teacher I&#39;ve had said that we&#39;re required to stand. I can&#39;t find any law that says that, so I stand and turn away from the flag. Heh, once after they said the pledge, one of the kids in my class said "Why you ain&#39;t be sayin&#39; the pledge? You must not be believin&#39; in God or summin&#39;." Another one said "Dude ain&#39;t got no respect&#33;" Public education is evil.

Does anyone know of a court ruling stating that compulsory standing during the pledge is unconstitutional? I&#39;m in Arkansas if there&#39;s no federal ruling.
There&#39;s a law in Minnesota that says, "Any student or teacher who objects to reciting the pledge must be excused from participating without penalty." I know this because it was in our student handbooks, but despite this, I have witnessed teachers harass people (like threatening to remove them from their "section" in the auditorium) for not doing so. I brought this up in one of my opinion speeches in sociology class and the teacher said some bollocks about how she would force students to recite the pledge because it&#39;s about "honoring the troops" or some such, so it&#39;s hard to enforce when most of the teachers are a bunch of nationalist ****s.

I would guess that there&#39;s no federal law if they go by a state law here, but I don&#39;t know about Arkansas.

[Yardstick]

I would ask the teacher to defend their statement that reciting words that defend elitist, non-secular, and imperialism, &#39;support the troops.&#39;

And then if the teacher managed to stumble through that one I&#39;d ask them to explain to me when and how they were given the legal and moral authority to tell me who or what I have to support.

I always stay seated during the pledge of allegiance and the teacher never even said anything. However during my graduation I went ahead and stood for the nation anthem, although I did flip off the flag the enire song.(didnt have the balls to do it in plain site though :P )

[redskyrevolution]

I never stand and say it. Most of the teachers I had were cool with it one tried giving me a hard time about it. but since the law was on my side...I won. Ha. I guess there is one good thing about our laws..ha.

The only times I remember standing in the alst few years....were when I had this really old annoying sub that thought Bush was god....So I would stand facing the opposite direction of the flag on top of my desk with my fist in the air. He always yelled some bullshit right wing shit at me....and then didnt even send me to the dean or anything....ha. Dumbass.

[Faux Real]

Thankfully I haven&#39;t had to recite that piece of crap song since my days at a catholic elementary school. Even then though I felt silly saying it, and was scolded at for not going along with the rest of the class. Everyone sounded like mindless robots. The school masses were very annoying as well, as our principle was a stalinist/nazi nun&#33; :P Truly hideous brainwashing now that I look back at it.

If only I was a communist back then, sigh.

[SandyAnon]

The "Pledge of Allegiance" is a load of white crap. I say burn a flag and the nation it represents&#33; Burn baby burn.. stupid amerikkkans.

[Faux Real]

The "Pledge of Allegiance" is a load of white crap. I say burn a flag and the nation it represents&#33; Burn baby burn.. stupid amerikkkans.

I love your deeply emotional posts Sandy. :P

[The Advent of Anarchy]

I bestow the finger
to the flag of the United States of America.
and to the dictatorship, for which it stands,
one nation, under conservative authoritarianism,
divided by classes
and it&#39;s tyranny and injustice for all&#33;

[NestorMakhno]

Originally posted by Comrade&#045;[email protected] 28, 2006 04:53 pm
The following is copied from one of my e-mails with my friends:

"Speaking of flags, when the pledge of allegiance and the national anthem are done at the next assembly, I think it would be very funny if, immediately afterwards, someone starting hysterically shouting, "God bless America&#33;&#33;&#33; God save the President, our Great Leader&#33; May He protect The Fatherland and deliver us from evil&#33;" And then if the teachers tried to discipline the person, the person could just start shouting, "You un-American traitors&#33; We are in a time of WAR here&#33; Where is your Patriotism?&#33; How DARE you try to keep me from voicing my support of the President and our glorious Armed Forces, you Communist bastards?&#33;" And then the person could strike up "Let Freedom Ring" or "God Bless America" or "The Stars and Stripes Forever" or some other patriotic bullshit and get everyone else to start singing it and keep the person from being reprimanded. Then, if the administration persisted, we could call in David Horowitz or someone else of his ilk and see if he would support us in our efforts to exercise our "academic freedoms" and "protest the liberal, big-government bias in our school systems." And then, right at the moment when the person is in front of national TV at a press conference with this David Horowitz fellow, the person could just pound that guy&#39;s ass with, "You fascist motherfuckers&#33; Serve the Fuhrer, our President, eh? Protect the Fatherland, eh? Well, you can shove your Fatherland and all your patriotic bullshit right up your ass&#33;"
I am doing this. I will have a new homeroom teacher and a new VP at my high school. This will be cool

[Dr Mindbender]

this is why a pledge of allegiance would never work in the UK. The whole thing on this side of the pond is unapologetically pro-beourgiouse&#33; Just listen to &#39;god save the queen&#39; ffs. Even the most complacent prol can see through it like wet nylon.

[DISTURBEDrbl911]

I am currently a freshman in college, and I stopped saying the pledge back in 8th grade. I had a history teacher who challenged our thoughts and played the devils advocate, and one day in class I was reading the words and realized that not only did I not believe in most of the text of it, but the US apparently doesn&#39;t believe and uphold those principles either. So as a result of that teacher and of analyzing the text of the pledge I haven&#39;t said it in about 5 years. In middle and high school they made us say it every day in the morning and everyone would have to stand up, face the flag, and put their hand on their hearts. In protest of that i would stand and either face the other direction or just stand their with my arms folded in front of me, so yea, that is where I stand on the position of the Pledge of Allegiance.

[LogicalPimp]

I never stand & do this worthless pledge.

I don&#39;t pledge allegiance, like a robot without a brain, to a country such as the US that fucks up most of the world.

People look at me oddly.

I once went to a NBA game in Seattle. Instead of facing forward for the pledge of allegiance, I turned backwards and faced the crowd. I mocked the entire pledge.

I almost got a nasty pile of nachos thrown at me.

A hillbilly asked me, "What son you don&#39;t stand for America?"

"Is that your 15 year old daughter with your wedding ring on, sir?"

"Hey fuck you&#33;"

"Oh, sorry, I really do love America it is such a lovely place&#33;"